2255 replies to this topic

[Yajerman]

 

SENS have weighed in on NR supplementation with their own analysis of the mouse research on NMN (Posted 23rd November 2015):

 

http://sens.org/rese...ng-mitochondria

 

From the article:

The studies showing benefits of NR supplementation in mouse models of disease have used doses of 400-500 milligrams of NR per kilogram of mouse body weight. Even after adjusting for the different metabolic rates of mice and humans, an approximate equivalent adult dose would range from 2000 to 4000 milligrams of NR per day. Commercially-available NR supplements contain between 75 and 125 mg NR per capsule, at a cost of roughly 0.6-0.8 cents per milligram of NR; to experiment with even the lower end of the human-equivalent dosage range would thus involve swallowing 18-30 NR pills a day, at a cost of $400-550 a month.

 

Oh... and is this thread a big advertisement for Chromadex? Because to me it certainly sounds like it.

 

A

 

(Anti-troll shield: ON)

 

I have read this thread from inception, several times. Two points I want to make; the SENS article does not contain a lot of evidential support to their claim(s) and is poorly written and your last statement is disingenuous because if you actually have read the entire thread you will note that most of the posters are unbiased and are objectively reviewing what evidence is out there theorizing and vetting out the possible benefits along with pointing out missing information needed. 

 

[midas]

 

 

 

 

Oh... and is this thread a big advertisement for Chromadex? Because to me it certainly sounds like it.

 

A

 

 

How does crawl back into your hole sound.....?

 

This topic has been followed by some of us for around 2.5 years or so, with no affiliation to Charomadex whatsoever. As a matter of fact I have purchased NR from three different company's over the last two years  and you appear and spout your crap all over it with no respect for anyone........Words absolutely fail me here.....

But that said, I wish you all the luck in the world, you don't deserve it, but I hope you get it. Then I hope you are humble enough to think back to when you were and arsehole and see the error of your ways....(that's as polite as I can get, chances are if I had posted what I really think I would be banned from the forum)

Edited by midas, 15 May 2016 - 12:42 AM.

[Bryan_S]

Guys don't mind this guy, he has an ax to grind against ChromaDex, not us See Post

 

If he'd bothered to read our thread he would have discovered we are all about NAD boosting not a corporate entity. From that sense he should be supporting this thread because he himself tried to promote the same thing we've rallied around. Evidently he offered a (NMN) Nicotinamide Mononucleotide product and withdrew it before it could be delivered (See Site Map, NMN), maybe he can enlighten us as to why? I expect it's because Chinese Labs will claim almost anything but he should be the one to share that story. At least he tried to step up as a provider, wish it had been successful. God knows they would have had the support of our members if they'd come through but he's taken a misguided stab at us. Then Throwing Michael Rae quotes at us is about as low as you can get because the buzzards have already picked his bones for lack of supporting research. As we've stated before (NMN) is pretty much on equal footing with (NR) except for the price. As previously inferred "If" a verifiable source could be purchased for less than (NR) many of us might have become customers.

 

 

On that note the only (NMN) source appears to be from Shinkowa Pharmaceutical in TOKYO but be prepared to mortgage the house and sell your children. 

Edited by Bryan_S, 15 May 2016 - 05:22 AM.

[YOLF]

 

SENS have weighed in on NR supplementation with their own analysis of the mouse research on NMN (Posted 23rd November 2015):

 

http://sens.org/rese...ng-mitochondria

 

From the article:

The studies showing benefits of NR supplementation in mouse models of disease have used doses of 400-500 milligrams of NR per kilogram of mouse body weight. Even after adjusting for the different metabolic rates of mice and humans, an approximate equivalent adult dose would range from 2000 to 4000 milligrams of NR per day. Commercially-available NR supplements contain between 75 and 125 mg NR per capsule, at a cost of roughly 0.6-0.8 cents per milligram of NR; to experiment with even the lower end of the human-equivalent dosage range would thus involve swallowing 18-30 NR pills a day, at a cost of $400-550 a month.

 

Oh... and is this thread a big advertisement for Chromadex? Because to me it certainly sounds like it.

 

A

 

 

Hmmm... this does sound like a good point to bring up that I hadn't considered. Why sell a supplement that is so underpowered? Are they expecting some to be able to afford the mega doses to actually take that many capsules while others just waste their money? Or are there actual benefits to taking small doses of NR? I've heard alot of testimonials to the effect that it works slowly over time... is that true? Or are we to assume we're being given to placebo effect?

[YOLF]

 

 

SENS have weighed in on NR supplementation with their own analysis of the mouse research on NMN (Posted 23rd November 2015):

 

http://sens.org/rese...ng-mitochondria

 

From the article:

The studies showing benefits of NR supplementation in mouse models of disease have used doses of 400-500 milligrams of NR per kilogram of mouse body weight. Even after adjusting for the different metabolic rates of mice and humans, an approximate equivalent adult dose would range from 2000 to 4000 milligrams of NR per day. Commercially-available NR supplements contain between 75 and 125 mg NR per capsule, at a cost of roughly 0.6-0.8 cents per milligram of NR; to experiment with even the lower end of the human-equivalent dosage range would thus involve swallowing 18-30 NR pills a day, at a cost of $400-550 a month.

 

Oh... and is this thread a big advertisement for Chromadex? Because to me it certainly sounds like it.

 

A

 

(Anti-troll shield: ON)

 

I have read this thread from inception, several times. Two points I want to make; the SENS article does not contain a lot of evidential support to their claim(s) and is poorly written and your last statement is disingenuous because if you actually have read the entire thread you will note that most of the posters are unbiased and are objectively reviewing what evidence is out there theorizing and vetting out the possible benefits along with pointing out missing information needed. 

 

 

Still the dose makes the medicine just like the poison. SENS is reputable and completely neutral. Do any of the NR brands have money back guarantees? It would be interesting to swallow half a bottle to achieve the dose equivalent of the study and see if I can perceive any short term benefits... It felt like I got alot of energy from it the first day or two, but then it trailed off... Might that have been placebo effect? There were some other supplements I had started the same day, or around that time. 

[stefan_001]

 

 

 

SENS have weighed in on NR supplementation with their own analysis of the mouse research on NMN (Posted 23rd November 2015):

 

http://sens.org/rese...ng-mitochondria

 

From the article:

The studies showing benefits of NR supplementation in mouse models of disease have used doses of 400-500 milligrams of NR per kilogram of mouse body weight. Even after adjusting for the different metabolic rates of mice and humans, an approximate equivalent adult dose would range from 2000 to 4000 milligrams of NR per day. Commercially-available NR supplements contain between 75 and 125 mg NR per capsule, at a cost of roughly 0.6-0.8 cents per milligram of NR; to experiment with even the lower end of the human-equivalent dosage range would thus involve swallowing 18-30 NR pills a day, at a cost of $400-550 a month.

 

Oh... and is this thread a big advertisement for Chromadex? Because to me it certainly sounds like it.

 

A

 

(Anti-troll shield: ON)

 

I have read this thread from inception, several times. Two points I want to make; the SENS article does not contain a lot of evidential support to their claim(s) and is poorly written and your last statement is disingenuous because if you actually have read the entire thread you will note that most of the posters are unbiased and are objectively reviewing what evidence is out there theorizing and vetting out the possible benefits along with pointing out missing information needed. 

 

 

Still the dose makes the medicine just like the poison. SENS is reputable and completely neutral. Do any of the NR brands have money back guarantees? It would be interesting to swallow half a bottle to achieve the dose equivalent of the study and see if I can perceive any short term benefits... It felt like I got alot of energy from it the first day or two, but then it trailed off... Might that have been placebo effect? There were some other supplements I had started the same day, or around that time. 

 

 

ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh come on anybody with an honest interest would first read a bit more. I think everybody understands that there is a difference in applying therapeutic doses on a disease model versus supplementation to maintain your body and hopefully age healthier.

 

Also could you detail your quotes please:

- "Still the dose makes the medicine just like the poison." --> references showing NR is poison at 2g / day levels?

 

And then just to show that human equivalent dose therapeutic effects have also been reported at the 1g/day level go to the link below about NR positive impacting Alzheimer's disease. My overall comment on dosing is that researchers are likely to start on the high end as that is the best way to know does it do anything, Downwards finetuning has never been done yet.

 

http://www.timelessl...s-mouse-models/
 

Edited by stefan_001, 15 May 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[stefan_001]

Question, since NR was not used in the mouse studies and the molecular weight of NMN is less than 500 mol why not create a NMN patch instead of ingesting pills of the potentially very less effective pre-cursor?

 

You are aware the molecular weight if NR is 255 g/mol? And to make things more precise NMN is 334 g/mol. So can you explain your point a bit better? Both to be used as patch? Well its NR then any day. I can patch probably my entire body versus a single NMN patch for the same cost.

[Bryan_S]

SENS is reputable and completely neutral.

 

I think they'd like to believe they are but some of their researchers are not. Seems once you begin to publish misnomers, word gets around and soon others start quoting you as the undisputed expert.

 

The CR Society considers the Michael Rae's article suggesting Nicotinamide Riboside is possibly harmful to our remaining "still-functional" Mitochondria.

 

So is Michael Rae's evaluation correct? I think not because he failed to consider a plethora of related papers.

 

"I agree Michael Rae only looked at NR thru the lens of Sinclair's research and possibly only NR venders who have been plagiarizing David Sinclair's work on NMN."

 

Here is his most damaging statement. "Moreover, even if NR supplements do provide an immediate jolt to muscle mitochondrial metabolism in the way that the Harvard NMN studies suggest, it’s not clear that doing so is a good idea in the long term. NMN injections don’t improve mitochondrial function by repairing molecular damage wrought by the aging process in the organelles, nor in other cells and biomolecules whose damage with age results in a dampening-down of mitochondrial activity (see discussion in Question of the Month #11: “Are Mitochondrial Mutations Really All That Important?”). Instead, NMN injections leave the existing damage in place, and induce the still-functional mitochondria to work harder and pump out more energy. This is rather like pushing harder on the gas pedal when your car is not running at full power due to damage to its cams and push rods: it may make the car go faster in the short term, but the underlying damage hasn’t been fixed, and will likely get even worse from the excessive wear." Again what he fails to consider is it doesn't work that way. Mitochondrial biogenesis steps in and the healthy mitochondria increase in number to meet our energy needs. Also NAD+ supports the innate repair processes and supports the epigenetic NAD-dependent deacetylase where those processes had been stifled for lack of available NAD. 

 

So I believe his ideas are half baked and lack supporting research. Further I believe spreading such ideas is irresponsible and in conflict with existing research. If SENS supports such views I'd be surprised because its an insult to the researchers who are continuing along this path.

Edited by Bryan_S, 15 May 2016 - 06:13 PM.
Mitochondrial biogenesis added

[super-human]

 

Question, since NR was not used in the mouse studies and the molecular weight of NMN is less than 500 mol why not create a NMN patch instead of ingesting pills of the potentially very less effective pre-cursor?

 

You are aware the molecular weight if NR is 255 g/mol? And to make things more precise NMN is 334 g/mol. So can you explain your point a bit better? Both to be used as patch? Well its NR then any day. I can patch probably my entire body versus a single NMN patch for the same cost.

 

Hi Stefan, I am knew here so please bear with me a little...

 

My thought was we are using NR because it can be absorbed through the GI track but via that route the absorption could be low. NMN could be injected like in the mouse studies, but who would want to do that?? Not me. Since NMN is below the threshold for skin absorption (~500 g/mol) we could use it directly in a patch (your point is also a good one NR has an even lower molecular weight) and it would more closely replicate the mouse studies. I did check on the cost and you are also right on that point 25 mg of NMN can be sourced for $99 - that is insanely expensive.  

 

Anyway, so if NMN is off the table due to cost what about NR in a patch format? Could that not effectively lower the amount need to be taken orally and help with consistency of delivery? 

 

 

 

 

[Bryan_S]

Have we been looking at the solution since 2014?

 

P7C3 Neuroprotective Chemicals Function by Activating the Rate-Limiting Enzyme in NAD Salvage

 

I'm sure we have an epigenetic mechanism at work but have we overlooked some previous research? If not the answer possibly an alternative approach. 

Edited by Bryan_S, 16 May 2016 - 05:36 AM.

[Bryan_S]

My thought was we are using NR because it can be absorbed through the GI track but via that route the absorption could be low.

 

I think we use it because its the cheapest and simplest NAD boosting path that rings all the right Sirtuin bells along the way. It's also the focus of so many studies trying to grasp NAD depletion as a cause for age related disease, not to mention its opposite with is prevention by NAD boosting. We still have to consider the other available NAD precursors because (NR) is still more expensive than say (Na) or (NAM) which will both still raise NAD levels. That is why we don't ignore the others because they are all valid in there own right, although benefits may vary and our tolerance to their maximum dosage may also.

[Iporuru]

Part 5 of the NAD world: the conflicting roles of NAMPT – inflammation or rescue?

 

http://www.anti-agin...n-inflammation/

[Asor]

Chromadex stock value is exploding these days, up 60% year to date (last year up almost 40%), also it just moved from OTC to Nasdaq.

 

Just today up 13%.

 

Large part of its revenue come from NR.

 

That's a good sign because those in the know dont go to invest in a stock like that unless they "know".

 

[HappyPaul]

Chromadex stock value is exploding these days, up 60% year to date (last year up almost 40%), also it just moved from OTC to Nasdaq.

 

Just today up 13%.

 

Large part of its revenue come from NR.

 

That's a good sign because those in the know dont go to invest in a stock like that unless they "know".

Quarterly investors call is going on right now.  New products such as NR and Collagin for skin care etc..  In addition to a 3-1 reverse split and getting on NASDAQ they made their first ever quarterly profit.  NR is taking off and this is where this is coming from. 

[YOLF]

 

 

(Anti-troll shield: ON)

 

 

 

 

 

I have read this thread from inception, several times. Two points I want to make; the SENS article does not contain a lot of evidential support to their claim(s) and is poorly written and your last statement is disingenuous because if you actually have read the entire thread you will note that most of the posters are unbiased and are objectively reviewing what evidence is out there theorizing and vetting out the possible benefits along with pointing out missing information needed. 

 

 

Still the dose makes the medicine just like the poison. SENS is reputable and completely neutral. Do any of the NR brands have money back guarantees? It would be interesting to swallow half a bottle to achieve the dose equivalent of the study and see if I can perceive any short term benefits... It felt like I got alot of energy from it the first day or two, but then it trailed off... Might that have been placebo effect? There were some other supplements I had started the same day, or around that time. 

 

 

ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh come on anybody with an honest interest would first read a bit more. I think everybody understands that there is a difference in applying therapeutic doses on a disease model versus supplementation to maintain your body and hopefully age healthier.

 

Also could you detail your quotes please:

- "Still the dose makes the medicine just like the poison." --> references showing NR is poison at 2g / day levels?

 

And then just to show that human equivalent dose therapeutic effects have also been reported at the 1g/day level go to the link below about NR positive impacting Alzheimer's disease. My overall comment on dosing is that researchers are likely to start on the high end as that is the best way to know does it do anything, Downwards finetuning has never been done yet.

 

http://www.timelessl...s-mouse-models/
 

 

 

I didn't mean to say that NR was a poison, but there is an expression stating that "the dose makes the poison," I was just exercising my euphemism skills, but hopefully that means "the dose makes the medicine" and reminds those who've heard the expression of the reasoning.

[YOLF]

 

SENS is reputable and completely neutral.

 

I think they'd like to believe they are but some of their researchers are not. Seems once you begin to publish misnomers, word gets around and soon others start quoting you as the undisputed expert.

 

The CR Society considers the Michael Rae's article suggesting Nicotinamide Riboside is possibly harmful to our remaining "still-functional" Mitochondria.

 

So is Michael Rae's evaluation correct? I think not because he failed to consider a plethora of related papers.

 

"I agree Michael Rae only looked at NR thru the lens of Sinclair's research and possibly only NR venders who have been plagiarizing David Sinclair's work on NMN."

 

Here is his most damaging statement. "Moreover, even if NR supplements do provide an immediate jolt to muscle mitochondrial metabolism in the way that the Harvard NMN studies suggest, it’s not clear that doing so is a good idea in the long term. NMN injections don’t improve mitochondrial function by repairing molecular damage wrought by the aging process in the organelles, nor in other cells and biomolecules whose damage with age results in a dampening-down of mitochondrial activity (see discussion in Question of the Month #11: “Are Mitochondrial Mutations Really All That Important?”). Instead, NMN injections leave the existing damage in place, and induce the still-functional mitochondria to work harder and pump out more energy. This is rather like pushing harder on the gas pedal when your car is not running at full power due to damage to its cams and push rods: it may make the car go faster in the short term, but the underlying damage hasn’t been fixed, and will likely get even worse from the excessive wear." Again what he fails to consider is it doesn't work that way. Mitochondrial biogenesis steps in and the healthy mitochondria increase in number to meet our energy needs. Also NAD+ supports the innate repair processes and supports the epigenetic NAD-dependent deacetylase where those processes had been stifled for lack of available NAD. 

 

So I believe his ideas are half baked and lack supporting research. Further I believe spreading such ideas is irresponsible and in conflict with existing research. If SENS supports such views I'd be surprised because its an insult to the researchers who are continuing along this path.

 

 

Well that is a good point. I guess I'm not well versed enough in the literature of the topic to go beyond expressing my assumptions of SENS and I don't have anything to counter what you say. So I guess your right and I was acting on buyer's remorse for an expensive supplement when I thought I was getting ripped off.

[bluemoon]

Chromadex stock value is exploding these days, up 60% year to date (last year up almost 40%), also it just moved from OTC to Nasdaq.

 

Just today up 13%.

 

Large part of its revenue come from NR.

 

That's a good sign because those in the know dont go to invest in a stock like that unless they "know".

 

This last part isn't quite correct. Many investors in a company like ChromaDex are more willing to take on risk. They rarely have special knowledge. The company seems to be in  a better situation now since they are finally releasing quarterly reports - or at least it looks like they will from now.  

[normalizing]

Bryan S as a starter and main advertiser of this thread and sponsor of this product and using it,  how many years do you suppose you will add to your DNA program, would you live to 120 with perfect health?

Edited by normalizing, 18 May 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[to age or not to age]

I have contributed a number of times to the logecity website, including several videos I directed with David Sinclair, Leonard Guarante, Cynthia Kenyon etc.  I am conversant about NR and NMN.  David Sinclair emailed me last year wondering if I had a trusted source for Beta lapachone. 

A number of scientists have been considering testing Beta lapachone in various combinations with NR and resveratrol in animals, the thinking is that there may be add on effects.  Over the past year I have been working with two chemists to synthesize beta lapachone.  I just received the report today.  We have done it.  I am going to make some BL available to longevity members (and several scientists) for scientific study.  More details top follow. This has been 11 months in development.  Pricing is not yet set. 

 

[to age or not to age]

I have also been filming the chemists synthesize beta lapachone as part of my upcoming series on aging.  I had never considered making 

compounds although I have been studying Aging research since 2006. However, scientists have contacted me excited about this molecule 

and I have come to believe that BL is indeed very important.  One of them (also and MD) is starting human tests and I will try to make this compound available to that researcher.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Bryan S as a starter and main advertiser of this thread and sponsor of this product and using it,  how many years do you suppose you will add to your DNA program, would you live to 120 with perfect health?

 

NR was proven on mice to extend lifespan even taken very late in their life by 5%... however no CR group was used.. I mostly consider the mice control group often take kind of cookies diet.. thats the problem

 

I have also been filming the chemists synthesize beta lapachone as part of my upcoming series on aging.  I had never considered making 

compounds although I have been studying Aging research since 2006. However, scientists have contacted me excited about this molecule 

and I have come to believe that BL is indeed very important.  One of them (also and MD) is starting human tests and I will try to make this compound available to that researcher.

 

Im glad to hear that ! I tried to promote BL though my blog as a VERY important and major real anti aging molecule http://www.beta-lapa...f-healthy-life/

 

I spoke to some scientist that worked on the major mice studies using BL and they already supplemented themselves. BL is already available as chemical, problem I think is the price

[stefan_001]

Nicotinamide Riboside supplementation may reverse aging related symptoms of liver disease (NAFLD)     

http://www.timelessl...-disease-nafld/

 

Increasing evidence about the importance NAD+ levels in the body continuous to emerge. This week reseachers in China released a report indicating a link between the onset of nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) and the aging associated decline in NAD+ level. Further more they found that supplementation with nicotinamide riboside in a NAD+ deficient mice model completely corrected these NAFLD onset symptoms.

Edited by stefan_001, 18 May 2016 - 09:05 PM.

[Bryan_S]

Bryan S as a starter and main advertiser of this thread and sponsor of this product and using it,  how many years do you suppose you will add to your DNA program, would you live to 120 with perfect health?

 

That's not correct, I'm not an advertiser or sponsor. I work in a news station and if anything I'm pretty good at finding the latest scholarly papers and NAD boosting news and to that I'll plead guilty, however stefan_001 beat me to the "Hepatic NAD+ deficiency as a therapeutic target for NAFLD in aging" tonight. (Great find by the way  ) As far as how much it will add to my life, I don't know that it will. I've already lived longer than my Grand Father and my Father didn't make it much past his, so I could go at any moment so to speak, not to be morbid but I feel lucky to be in fairly good health. As a lifelong skydiver I somehow beat the odds of that behavior and today I'm trying to mitigate future risk as best I can.

 

But back to Life extension, in small animals its very easy to extend lifespan and move the needle, so those results don't necessarily equate to us. I am still very optimistic that the areas of rejuvenation/cellular action in small animals that (NR) has benefited should translate to us but there is no absolutes until the same tests are run on humans and proven there as well. All I'm seeking is health-span extension and a reduction in lower limb inflammation which has plagued me from my sporting accidents through the years, I'm already seeing those results, so I'm fairly confident the human clinical trials will confirm much from the animal tests.

Edited by Bryan_S, 19 May 2016 - 04:09 AM.

[stefan_001]

 

Bryan S as a starter and main advertiser of this thread and sponsor of this product and using it,  how many years do you suppose you will add to your DNA program, would you live to 120 with perfect health?

 

That's not correct, I'm not an advertiser or sponsor. I work in a news station and if anything I'm pretty good at finding the latest scholarly papers and NAD boosting news and to that I'll plead guilty, however stefan_001 beat me to the "Hepatic NAD+ deficiency as a therapeutic target for NAFLD in aging" tonight. (Great find by the way  ) As far as how much it will add to my life, I don't know that it will. I've already lived longer than my Grand Father and my Father didn't make it much past his, so I could go at any moment so to speak, not to be morbid but I feel lucky to be in fairly good health. As a lifelong skydiver I somehow beat the odds of that behavior and today I'm trying to mitigate future risk as best I can.

 

But back to Life extension, in small animals its very easy to extend lifespan and move the needle, so those results don't necessarily equate to us. I am still very optimistic that the areas of rejuvenation/cellular action in small animals that (NR) has benefited should translate to us but there is no absolutes until the same tests are run on humans and proven there as well. All I'm seeking is health-span extension and a reduction in lower limb inflammation which has plagued me from my sporting accidents through the years, I'm already seeing those results, so I'm fairly confident the human clinical trials will confirm much from the animal tests.

 

I think NR is definitely helping a healthy healthspan. My parents of 76 are more energetic than before and they know it too, planning more activities for themselves. Its interesting to see that there are increasingly combination products entering the market. Combination with Pterostilbene being the best known one. 120 would be great, longer better. I feel a bit sorry for Bryan_S because if he lives till 120 then it means he will get still decades of personal attacks on this board.....guys common on, I am greatfull for this tread so as a courtesy to the thread starter feel free to comment anything but do it with some form of facts or then leave it.

Edited by stefan_001, 19 May 2016 - 04:50 AM.

[Yajerman]

I have also been filming the chemists synthesize beta lapachone as part of my upcoming series on aging.  I had never considered making 

compounds although I have been studying Aging research since 2006. However, scientists have contacted me excited about this molecule 

and I have come to believe that BL is indeed very important.  One of them (also and MD) is starting human tests and I will try to make this compound available to that researcher.

I have been taking Basis for the last few months and while I feel that I started off in pretty good health I do notice a few upticks in my overall health from taking NR+Pterostilbene. That being said, I am interested in finding out if there is in fact a synergy between BL & NR.

 

Assuming there is , hopefully the cost associated with this amalgamation won't be too high.

 

BTW - who is currently making BL on large scale? I can research it but i figured to ask you folks first.

[Anthony_Loera]

 

 

SENS have weighed in on NR supplementation with their own analysis of the mouse research on NMN (Posted 23rd November 2015):

 

http://sens.org/rese...ng-mitochondria

 

From the article:

The studies showing benefits of NR supplementation in mouse models of disease have used doses of 400-500 milligrams of NR per kilogram of mouse body weight. Even after adjusting for the different metabolic rates of mice and humans, an approximate equivalent adult dose would range from 2000 to 4000 milligrams of NR per day. Commercially-available NR supplements contain between 75 and 125 mg NR per capsule, at a cost of roughly 0.6-0.8 cents per milligram of NR; to experiment with even the lower end of the human-equivalent dosage range would thus involve swallowing 18-30 NR pills a day, at a cost of $400-550 a month.

 

Oh... and is this thread a big advertisement for Chromadex? Because to me it certainly sounds like it.

 

A

 

 

.... says the fat guy who sells TA65 (the best crap / scam ever) at 500$ per bottle :D

 

 

 

 

Really? And Appeal to spite because we are a distributor that has to follow contractual obligations? I have had a relationship with Chromadex, I know how they operate and how most NR in your supplements come from their company.

 

Now, if I stop talking about Chromadex (as I am biased against them), what is left from my post?

 

Of yeah the SENS article which quotes:

"The studies showing benefits of NR supplementation in mouse models of disease have used doses of 400-500 milligrams of NR per kilogram of mouse body weight. Even after adjusting for the different metabolic rates of mice and humans, an approximate equivalent adult dose would range from 2000 to 4000 milligrams of NR per day. Commercially-available NR supplements contain between 75 and 125 mg NR per capsule, at a cost of roughly 0.6-0.8 cents per milligram of NR; to experiment with even the lower end of the human-equivalent dosage range would thus involve swallowing 18-30 NR pills a day, at a cost of $400-550 a month."

 

SENS reputation far exceeds my own, as it should.

 

If you don't want to listen to a Lifetime Member who has been on this board 6 years longer than you Tommy, then I suggest to get acquainted with SENS.

 

And as for being fat, you got me there... But there is a reason for that right now... 

 

 im ok guysss.jpg   70.07KB   2 downloads

 

 

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 19 May 2016 - 03:41 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

 

 

 

 

 

Oh... and is this thread a big advertisement for Chromadex? Because to me it certainly sounds like it.

 

A

 

 

How does crawl back into your hole sound.....?

 

This topic has been followed by some of us for around 2.5 years or so, with no affiliation to Charomadex whatsoever. As a matter of fact I have purchased NR from three different company's over the last two years  and you appear and spout your crap all over it with no respect for anyone........Words absolutely fail me here.....

But that said, I wish you all the luck in the world, you don't deserve it, but I hope you get it. Then I hope you are humble enough to think back to when you were and arsehole and see the error of your ways....(that's as polite as I can get, chances are if I had posted what I really think I would be banned from the forum)

 

 

I believe this is one of the first times I said anything about NR, so you coming out of left field claiming otherwise is really an attack on me personally rather than what I quoted (and you deleted) from SENS. Again I don't expect you to understand sourcing for vitamin and supplement manufacturing, so for most of you I probably do sound like I am not correct. For that, I am sorry... 

 

But let's get back to the SENS quote that you deleted.

 

Here it is, yet again:

 

The studies showing benefits of NR supplementation in mouse models of disease have used doses of 400-500 milligrams of NR per kilogram of mouse body weight. Even after adjusting for the different metabolic rates of mice and humans, an approximate equivalent adult dose would range from 2000 to 4000 milligrams of NR per day. Commercially-available NR supplements contain between 75 and 125 mg NR per capsule, at a cost of roughly 0.6-0.8 cents per milligram of NR; to experiment with even the lower end of the human-equivalent dosage range would thus involve swallowing 18-30 NR pills a day, at a cost of $400-550 a month.

 

 

A

[Anthony_Loera]

Guys don't mind this guy, he has an ax to grind against ChromaDex, not us See Post

 

If he'd bothered to read our thread he would have discovered we are all about NAD boosting not a corporate entity. From that sense he should be supporting this thread because he himself tried to promote the same thing we've rallied around. Evidently he offered a (NMN) Nicotinamide Mononucleotide product and withdrew it before it could be delivered (See Site Map, NMN), maybe he can enlighten us as to why? I expect it's because Chinese Labs will claim almost anything but he should be the one to share that story. At least he tried to step up as a provider, wish it had been successful. God knows they would have had the support of our members if they'd come through but he's taken a misguided stab at us. Then Throwing Michael Rae quotes at us is about as low as you can get because the buzzards have already picked his bones for lack of supporting research. As we've stated before (NMN) is pretty much on equal footing with (NR) except for the price. As previously inferred "If" a verifiable source could be purchased for less than (NR) many of us might have become customers.

 

 

On that note the only (NMN) source appears to be from Shinkowa Pharmaceutical in TOKYO but be prepared to mortgage the house and sell your children. 

 

Sure here is what happened:

 

First we didn't use chinese labs, thanks for that little poke Bryan. 

 

Second, the lab we did use could not produce it at a high enough purity, and by then I had spent a lot of time and money on this. I contacted Leonard Guarente to see if he would be interested to help fund the synthesis of it for his new product, since I needed additional funding and I believed he knew that NMN would be a better ingredient because of Sinclair's work, but he never responded. 

 

I would have loved to be able to fund this completely, but we simply ran out of money for the project.

 

Add to that, that the Pre-sale of the product on our website also showed little interest, so I pulled to plug and provided refunds to everyone that had ordered.

 

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 19 May 2016 - 03:17 PM.

[Smedvick]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh... and is this thread a big advertisement for Chromadex? Because to me it certainly sounds like it.

 

A

 

 

How does crawl back into your hole sound.....?

 

This topic has been followed by some of us for around 2.5 years or so, with no affiliation to Charomadex whatsoever. As a matter of fact I have purchased NR from three different company's over the last two years  and you appear and spout your crap all over it with no respect for anyone........Words absolutely fail me here.....

But that said, I wish you all the luck in the world, you don't deserve it, but I hope you get it. Then I hope you are humble enough to think back to when you were and arsehole and see the error of your ways....(that's as polite as I can get, chances are if I had posted what I really think I would be banned from the forum)

 

 

I believe this is one of the first times I said anything about NR, so you coming out of left field claiming otherwise is really an attack on me personally rather than what I quoted (and you deleted) from SENS. Again I don't expect you to understand sourcing for vitamin and supplement manufacturing, so for most of you I probably do sound like I am not correct. For that, I am sorry... 

 

But let's get back to the SENS quote that you deleted.

 

Here it is, yet again:

 

The studies showing benefits of NR supplementation in mouse models of disease have used doses of 400-500 milligrams of NR per kilogram of mouse body weight. Even after adjusting for the different metabolic rates of mice and humans, an approximate equivalent adult dose would range from 2000 to 4000 milligrams of NR per day. Commercially-available NR supplements contain between 75 and 125 mg NR per capsule, at a cost of roughly 0.6-0.8 cents per milligram of NR; to experiment with even the lower end of the human-equivalent dosage range would thus involve swallowing 18-30 NR pills a day, at a cost of $400-550 a month.

 

 

A

 

 

Yet for all that we do know that a single, much smaller, dose of NR provokes a 30% - 50% increase in NAD+ in humans.  Unless SENS is arguing that a much higher increase in NAD+ is required to derive any benefit, I don't know what you're driving at.  It doesn't seem likely to me that the mouse trials established any sort of minimum dosing threshold.  In fact, as was discussed earlier, it's much more likely they dosed quite high to maximize the chance of seeing results.  

[Logic]

Have we been looking at the solution since 2014?
 
P7C3 Neuroprotective Chemicals Function by Activating the Rate-Limiting Enzyme in NAD Salvage
 
I'm sure we have an epigenetic mechanism at work but have we overlooked some previous research? If not the answer possibly an alternative approach.

 
Am I really the only person that thought this an informative and important lead!?

Nam is a negative regulator of SIRT and  recycling it by upregulating NAMPT is the only way to really keep the intracellular levels low, and SIRT levels high, IMHO, as  no matter what you take it will eventually end up as Nam in the cell:



A GoogleSiteSearch for P7C3:

https://cse.google.c...ab=0&gsc.q=P7C3

 

I have found detailed information on the manufacture of P7C3-A20, an analog displaying increased activity and an improved toxicity profile compared to P7C and will look into getting it made and perhaps organising a group buy?
http://www4.utsouthw...13 P7C3-A20.pdf