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Nicotinamide Riboside [Curated]

nicotinamide riboside nicotinamide nad boosting charles brenner david sinclair leonard guarente niagen niacinamide nicotinamide mononucleotide

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#1321 Nate-2004

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:52 PM

I do feel some benefit from it, but probably not near what older people might get from it.  I don't know to what degree my NAD levels have fallen since I was 25. I have experienced some aging over the past 3 years though that is more accelerated than when I was 38. I do know that with aging it isn't perfectly gradual, I think there are punctuated periods and I may have experienced one of them. It used to be that when I said I was 39 even at some points when I was 40, nobody believed me, I looked 32 at most and would often get guesses of 29. However when I reached 42 people stopped disbelieving me altogether. I'd rather play it safe with 375, which is both affordable and a good bet.


Edited by Nate-2004, 12 October 2016 - 04:54 PM.

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#1322 trakker

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 05:10 PM

Regarding dosage, this article on alivebynature  shows the   chart below to  imply that 300mg is  closer to the ideal dose than 1000mg.

 

300mg is slower than 1000mg to reach max NAD+ increase Brenner refers to at 8 hours,

 

but by 24 hours both are still elevated and by similar amounts.

 

 

NR_NAD_chart-800x607.png


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#1323 malbecman

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 05:38 PM

 At least ~300 mgs would be financially do-able for most folks....


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#1324 trakker

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 06:03 PM

Regarding dosage, this article on alivebynature  shows the   chart below to  imply that 300mg is  closer to the ideal dose than 1000mg.

 

300mg is slower than 1000mg to reach max NAD+ increase Brenner refers to at 8 hours,

 

but by 24 hours both are still elevated and by similar amounts.

 

 

NR_NAD_chart-800x607.png

 

 

Something that may be worth considering on the results from Brenner - the ages of participants was listed as 30-55 yrs.  

 

I didn't see anything about an average age, but is likely  lower than most of us here like myself who might benefit from a higher dosage than the "youngsters" in the research.


Edited by trakker, 12 October 2016 - 06:04 PM.

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#1325 Mike C

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 07:27 PM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27489522

Why would anyone take something that REDUCED exercise perfomance. If there is a morker for longevity and QOL/overall health it is exercise performance
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#1326 Nate-2004

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 07:39 PM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27489522

Why would anyone take something that REDUCED exercise perfomance. If there is a morker for longevity and QOL/overall health it is exercise performance

 

This was a poorly conducted study on mice no less with very little funding and was discussed numerous times earlier in the thread. I assure you it does not reduce performance, if anything it has significantly improved my exercise performance.


Edited by Nate-2004, 12 October 2016 - 07:40 PM.

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#1327 Mike C

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 07:50 PM

Hi Nate, thanks for the reply but this site generally does not accept anecdotal evidence or am I mistaken.
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#1328 Nate-2004

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 07:52 PM

No, it doesn't, but that was a side point, please search through the thread as this is now the third time that topic has been brought up and discussed. It is also inconsistent with other published results.


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#1329 Mike C

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 07:54 PM

I should add that I am just about finished with a months supply of basis 250mg NR and 50mg pterostilbene and Subjectively feel wotse, sepecially wrt exercise. I will go off of it soon as I finish it and will be interested in the results of not being on it.
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#1330 bluemoon

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 11:59 PM

I guess I can only edit once, so I'll add this here. I was reviewing the personal effects of NR thread, and it was David Sinclair who told interviewer 'to age or not to age':

 

"As I posted a couple months ago.  In June, David Sinclair told me you need to take at least 500mg of NR for it to do
anything.  From the way he spoke, it sounds like 1/2gram to 1gram per day is the ticket.  My wife and I
have been taking NR since I interviewed David and Dr Lenny Guarente (MIT) in January.  They both just seem quite
confident that - taken together with polyphenols like resveratrol (there are others) - it will 'very likely' improve a person's
health."
 
-------------------------------------
 
So that is old news and interesting that Guarente's Elysium went with 250mg for BASIS with eight months of this quote . 

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#1331 Asor

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 04:58 PM

 

In today's issue of Cell Metabolism, Leonard Guarente summarizes a study(also published today) about giving NR to mice with the disease Ataxia telangiectasia. The results on mice are sensational:

 

 http://dx.doi.org/10...met.2016.09.019

 

This is good news, though I wish it were the case that it affected neurodegenerative disorders like essential tremor. Then again I take any mouse studies with a grain of salt, and I also don't get why they don't just test these things on humans with Ataxia telangiectasia, given that NR is proven safe in humans. I guess it's always coming down to money, but it seems like the money would be better saved for humans than wasted on mice.

 

 

I have first hand information about studies on NR and mitochondrial disease.

The first study on mice had excellent results, then they made the same study on larger animal models and had huge problem with absorption when given orally, now they're trying to experiment with different type of assumption methods to improve bio-availability.

Next step, if successful with the above, will be studies on humans (where hopefully i should be part of), but here the parts about money: they still dont know how they're going to finance the study, so you are correct about the money.

 

 

 


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#1332 Thell

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 05:56 PM

wrong thread, my bad. Bryan can you delete this?

Edited by Thell, 14 October 2016 - 05:57 PM.


#1333 Mike C

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 06:08 PM

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT02678611

#1334 Bryan_S

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 06:53 PM

 

That makes 4 out of 10 completed human studies.

 

https://clinicaltria...e&Search=Search



#1335 Thell

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 07:42 PM

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to the elderly study; the question now is are we going to have to wait a couple more years to see published results.  :dry:

 

The other day I was studying the Trammell results and got to thinking about the massive difference in Brenner's results vs the human subjects. I had the same thought as trakker regarding the ages and means; but rather than just the ages I was thinking about the biological age. Unfortunately there is nothing to be found (that I saw) in the supplemental files indicating individual subject chronological age or weights. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the subjects < 45 have dramatically different results than those over.  Unfortunately it doesn't look like that completed elderly study is going to have the type of blood analysis data we just received with Brenner and Trammell. It'd be very interesting to correlate biological age (tolomere lengths and somatic stem cell populations) to pre and post treatment numbers. 



#1336 Bryan_S

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 03:22 AM

Yea, well those studies will get released when they get released. Brenner's study took awhile also. The news turned out to be the Nature publication itself and many of the details had already been released. 


Edited by Bryan_S, 15 October 2016 - 08:32 AM.


#1337 Bryan_S

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 10:18 PM

 

I've written him before and can submit a list of questions.

 

A short list would be great. I'd like to ask about his plans with nromics regarding the NR levels testing kit. As in, does he envision an inexpensive home test kit or clinic run test procedure done during Dr. visits and blood panels? And has any progress been made in this direction or are we still some years and some breakthroughs away from reality?

 

Also, what can he tell us about the synergistic effect of pterostilbene and resveratrol to NR.

 

 

OK we talked today for about an hour and he had a number of insights for us, from dosing, to the trends in NR research. As to your question NR is one of the most potent sirtuin activators but Dr. Brenner did not comment on pterostilbene and resveratrol in particular. The NAD testing kit is something they are working on for down the road and it will likely be for detecting the other NAD metabolites that are easier to see. He'll let us know when they have something. Give me some time to edit this together as a video cast and I'll share the questions and answers from this first round of questions with Dr. Brenner for our community.


Edited by Bryan_S, 15 October 2016 - 10:20 PM.

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#1338 Harkijn

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 06:51 AM

Speaking of SIRT123: the TimelessLife website comes with additional indications that javamide is a powerful inhibitor. In his view drinking coffee counteracts taking NR.

 

http://www.timelessl...ibits-sirt12-3/

 

Based on my own personal experience I would say that this is not correct. Yet the idea is disconcerting and I wonder if any of you has arguments for or against.


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#1339 Bryan_S

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 09:14 AM

NIHS-led research helps unlock the potential of Vitamin B3 metabolism

https://www.nestlein...n-b3-metabolism

 

NRK1 controls nicotinamide mononucleotide and nicotinamide riboside metabolism in mammalian cells

Joanna Ratajczak, Magali Joffraud, Samuel A. J. Trammell, Rosa Ras, Núria Canela, Marie Boutant, Sameer S. Kulkarni, Marcelo Rodrigues, Philip Redpath, Marie E. Migaud, Johan Auwerx, Oscar Yanes, Charles Brenner & Carles Cantó

http://www.nature.co...les/ncomms13103

 

Dr. Brenner told me in his interview yesterday they had a 2nd paper published this last week in Nature demonstrating how NMN is metabolized. 

 

Diagram%20NRT1.jpg


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#1340 midas

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 12:43 PM

"These results for the first time demonstrated that NR could alleviate the myocardial ischemia/reperfusion injury"

 

http://content.onlin...ticleid=2556383


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#1341 midas

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 01:28 PM

http://www.pnas.org/...1606171113.full

 

"Pharmacological stimulation of PGC-1α synthesis with nicotinamide riboside, the precursor of NAD+, resulted in reduced Aβ levels and attenuated cognitive deterioration in mice"

 

 

https://www.alzheime...php?newsID=2673

 

"Scientists from Imperial College London suggest that the gene, called PGC1-a, may prevent the formation of a protein called amyloid-beta. Amyloid-beta is the main component of the amyloid plaques, the sticky clumps of protein found in the brains of people with Alzheimer’s disease."

 


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#1342 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 02:23 PM

http://www.pnas.org/...1606171113.full

 

"Pharmacological stimulation of PGC-1α synthesis with nicotinamide riboside, the precursor of NAD+, resulted in reduced Aβ levels and attenuated cognitive deterioration in mice"

 

 

https://www.alzheime...php?newsID=2673

 

"Scientists from Imperial College London suggest that the gene, called PGC1-a, may prevent the formation of a protein called amyloid-beta. Amyloid-beta is the main component of the amyloid plaques, the sticky clumps of protein found in the brains of people with Alzheimer’s disease."

Are those spelling errors or are those two different genes?



#1343 Nate-2004

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 02:49 PM

Speaking of SIRT123: the TimelessLife website comes with additional indications that javamide is a powerful inhibitor. In his view drinking coffee counteracts taking NR.

 

http://www.timelessl...ibits-sirt12-3/

 

Based on my own personal experience I would say that this is not correct. Yet the idea is disconcerting and I wonder if any of you has arguments for or against.

 

Let's hope it's also true that activators are more potent than inhibitors.



#1344 midas

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 02:54 PM

 

http://www.pnas.org/...1606171113.full

 

"Pharmacological stimulation of PGC-1α synthesis with nicotinamide riboside, the precursor of NAD+, resulted in reduced Aβ levels and attenuated cognitive deterioration in mice"

 

 

https://www.alzheime...php?newsID=2673

 

"Scientists from Imperial College London suggest that the gene, called PGC1-a, may prevent the formation of a protein called amyloid-beta. Amyloid-beta is the main component of the amyloid plaques, the sticky clumps of protein found in the brains of people with Alzheimer’s disease."

Are those spelling errors or are those two different genes?

 

 

Same gene (PGC-1alpha), it looks like the second one (PGC1-a) is a spelling mistake.......

 

http://www.genengnew...isease/81253303


Edited by midas, 16 October 2016 - 02:59 PM.


#1345 midas

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 02:58 PM

Speaking of SIRT123: the TimelessLife website comes with additional indications that javamide is a powerful inhibitor. In his view drinking coffee counteracts taking NR.

 

http://www.timelessl...ibits-sirt12-3/

 

Based on my own personal experience I would say that this is not correct. Yet the idea is disconcerting and I wonder if any of you has arguments for or against.

 

 

 

Speaking of SIRT123: the TimelessLife website comes with additional indications that javamide is a powerful inhibitor. In his view drinking coffee counteracts taking NR.

 

http://www.timelessl...ibits-sirt12-3/

 

Based on my own personal experience I would say that this is not correct. Yet the idea is disconcerting and I wonder if any of you has arguments for or against.

 

Let's hope it's also true that activators are more potent than inhibitors.

 

 

Well, 99% of the time I have been taking NR with coffee (at a very low temperature, almost cold) from the get-go and I definitely feel the effects of NR......Might change to water now though just in case their is a negative effect from coffee...



#1346 stefan_001

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 06:28 PM

 

Speaking of SIRT123: the TimelessLife website comes with additional indications that javamide is a powerful inhibitor. In his view drinking coffee counteracts taking NR.

 

http://www.timelessl...ibits-sirt12-3/

 

Based on my own personal experience I would say that this is not correct. Yet the idea is disconcerting and I wonder if any of you has arguments for or against.

 

 

 

 

Let's hope it's also true that activators are more potent than inhibitors.

 

 

Well, 99% of the time I have been taking NR with coffee (at a very low temperature, almost cold) from the get-go and I definitely feel the effects of NR......Might change to water now though just in case their is a negative effect from coffee..

 

Harkijn as you asked, here my 2 cents. I read the research papers the article refers too. The research seems serious enough, even though the effects are tested only in vitro. That leaves open what happens when Javamide goes through the digestive track and what does the liver do to it. But the premise of the research is that these compounds may be responsible for the alleged anti-cancer and other effects of coffee, in other words the researchers think the  javamide gets into the cells (or the research is wrong). I am thinking this one goes to the same category as taking B complex as just in case safety option for homocysteine so here the "just in case option" would be not too much coffee to avoid constant (low level?) inhibition of SIRTs. Midas not sure if your proposal works, if you anyways drink the same amount of coffee then the timing doesnt matter I think.


Edited by stefan_001, 16 October 2016 - 06:51 PM.


#1347 Bryan_S

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 09:53 PM

"These results for the first time demonstrated that NR could alleviate the myocardial ischemia/reperfusion injury"

 

http://content.onlin...ticleid=2556383

 

This is big news!

 

Dr. Brenner was asked specifically about these ischemia experiments on heart and brain tissue. This study above didn't touch on the underlying reason researchers are looking at the nicotinamide riboside angle but there seems to be great interest in why NRK2 is expressed in these injured tissues.

 

The nicotinamide riboside kinase (Nrk) pathway, which is induced in response to damage converts nicotinamide riboside to nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) by phosphorylation and adenylylation. (NR to MNM to NAD) 

 

I think we've covered the gene expression tissue mapping project in previous posts. Its a resource where if you have an enzyme to research you can type it in see what gene is creating it and see which tissues have this gene expressed or not. I shared with him the study in the previous link and there's a lot of researchers asking this question. Why would nicotinamide riboside kinase 2 be more highly expressed at times of stress in these tissues? He says he getting emails all the time asking these very same questions.

 

Many of you will ask what was his answer. It boils down to we need more research. He said we could anthropomorphize the situation and say the cell wants NR but we can't make that association because the Cell is more like a machine and not like us. He did comment on how NR takes the least amount of cell resources to turn into NAD and this might be at the core of this question.

 

So if your just browsing this topic and want to know what the experimenters did is they cut off the blood supply to the heart tissue producing hypoxia/reoxygenation (H/R) injury in mice. This would be like you or I having a heart attack, blood clot or inclusion in a cardiac blood vessel. However unlike humans they can divide the mice into groups with some getting nicotinamide riboside supplementation and others without.

 

http://content.onlin...ticleid=2556383

Conclusions

Objectives | Methods | Results | Conclusions
These results for the first time demonstrated that NR could alleviate the myocardial ischemia/reperfusion injury. The underlying mechanism was improving the mitochondrial biogenesis via Sirt3-PGC-1α pathway and reducing the accumulation of excessive autophagosome via Sirt3-P53 pathway. This study provided important evidence for the potential clinical practice of NR in myocardial protection.

Edited by Bryan_S, 16 October 2016 - 10:33 PM.

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#1348 midas

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 12:00 AM

 

"These results for the first time demonstrated that NR could alleviate the myocardial ischemia/reperfusion injury"

 

http://content.onlin...ticleid=2556383

 

This is big news!

 

Dr. Brenner was asked specifically about these ischemia experiments on heart and brain tissue. This study above didn't touch on the underlying reason researchers are looking at the nicotinamide riboside angle but there seems to be great interest in why NRK2 is expressed in these injured tissues.

 

The nicotinamide riboside kinase (Nrk) pathway, which is induced in response to damage converts nicotinamide riboside to nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) by phosphorylation and adenylylation. (NR to MNM to NAD) 

 

I think we've covered the gene expression tissue mapping project in previous posts. Its a resource where if you have an enzyme to research you can type it in see what gene is creating it and see which tissues have this gene expressed or not. I shared with him the study in the previous link and there's a lot of researchers asking this question. Why would nicotinamide riboside kinase 2 be more highly expressed at times of stress in these tissues? He says he getting emails all the time asking these very same questions.

 

Many of you will ask what was his answer. It boils down to we need more research. He said we could anthropomorphize the situation and say the cell wants NR but we can't make that association because the Cell is more like a machine and not like us. He did comment on how NR takes the least amount of cell resources to turn into NAD and this might be at the core of this question.

 

So if your just browsing this topic and want to know what the experimenters did is they cut off the blood supply to the heart tissue producing hypoxia/reoxygenation (H/R) injury in mice. This would be like you or I having a heart attack, blood clot or inclusion in a cardiac blood vessel. However unlike humans they can divide the mice into groups with some getting nicotinamide riboside supplementation and others without.

 

http://content.onlin...ticleid=2556383

Conclusions

Objectives | Methods | Results | Conclusions
These results for the first time demonstrated that NR could alleviate the myocardial ischemia/reperfusion injury. The underlying mechanism was improving the mitochondrial biogenesis via Sirt3-PGC-1α pathway and reducing the accumulation of excessive autophagosome via Sirt3-P53 pathway. This study provided important evidence for the potential clinical practice of NR in myocardial protection.

 

 

 

http://grantome.com/...R21-HL126209-01  

 

Abstract

 

"Medical care of heart failure (HF) has been stagnant for the past 20 years; innovative therapy is urgently needed. A novel therapeutic target, mitochondrial dysfunction, has been implicated in multiple diseases, including heart failure. However, there currently is no specific treatment for mitochondrial dysfunction in human heart failure or any other disease. Mitochondria-based therapy development has been hampered both by limited understanding of how mitochondrial impairment causes cardiac dysfunction, and by a lack of interventions shown to improve mitochondrial function. Recently, we demonstrated in a murine model, that impaired mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation led to an increased myocardial NADH/NAD+ ratio and increased mitochondrial protein acetylation, without affecting mitochondrial ROS production or ATP synthesis. These changes rendered the heart susceptible to chronic stresses, which accelerated the development of heart failure. We observed a similar increase of NADH/NAD+ ratio and increase in protein acetylation in animal models of heart failure due to chronic pressure overload with no prior mitochondrial dysfunction. Supplying the NAD+ precursor, nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN), to these mice normalized the NADH/NAD+ ratio, prevented increased mitochondrial protein acetylation and improved cardiac function. Though NMN is not orally bioavailable, we and others have shown that oral supplementation with nicotinamide riboside (NR), the precursor from which NMN is produced, also decreases (normalizes) tissue NADH/NAD+ ratio and improves mitochondrial function in mouse models. These animal model results suggest a conceptually innovative mechanism linking mitochondrial dysfunction to the development and progression of heart failure that is distinct from the existing hypotheses of oxidative stress and energy starvation. Thus, we hypothesize that oral supplementation with NR will improve the NADH/NAD+ ratio caused by mitochondrial dysfunction during chronic stresses, and improve functional capacity and ventricular function in systolic heart failure. We therefore propose a first-in-human, safety and tolerability trial of the nutritional supplement, nicotinamide riboside (NR) in 30 participants wit clinically-stable, systolic heart failure. NR is a relative of niacin, but a closer relative of nicotinamide which, unlike niacin, does not induce flushing or pruritis and has no effect on lipid levels. NR does not induce insulin resistance or dysglycemia in mouse models. Thus, NR would potentially be cheap, safe, well-tolerated and readily available. The application is in response tothe program announcement of Nutrition and Diet in the Causation, Prevention, and Management of Heart Failure as NR has recently been approved for human use as a health supplement. As NR has not been used therapeutically in heart failure patients, we will utilize the R21 mechanism to support a pilot study with the following aims: 1) to determine the safety and tolerability of NR in patients with clinically-stable, systolic heart failure (LVEF <40%); 2) to determine whether, at the doses employed, NR has measureable effects on leukocyte NAD+ level and NADH/NAD+ ratio; and 3) to explore the potential range of effects of NR supplementation on heart failure surrogate endpoints."


Edited by midas, 17 October 2016 - 12:01 AM.

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#1349 Bryan_S

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 01:18 AM

Kevin O'Brien, University of Washington he has one human study already completed.

 

He is an expert in congestive heart failure, cardiac transplantation, and lipid disorders, practicing in these fields for over 20 years. 

http://www.uwmedicin...os/kevin-obrien



#1350 Nate-2004

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 08:44 PM

Regarding dosage, this article on alivebynature  shows the   chart below to  imply that 300mg is  closer to the ideal dose than 1000mg.

 

300mg is slower than 1000mg to reach max NAD+ increase Brenner refers to at 8 hours,

 

but by 24 hours both are still elevated and by similar amounts.

 

 

NR_NAD_chart-800x607.png

 

First, a question, what is the difference between Mean and SEM?

 

Second, it looks like the rise in NAD+ stays persistent and even peaks at 24 hrs, which is interesting. That means taking it at spaced times throughout the day may not be all that useful.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nicotinamide riboside, nicotinamide, nad boosting, charles brenner, david sinclair, leonard guarente, niagen, niacinamide, nicotinamide mononucleotide

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