2255 replies to this topic

[Bryan_S]

As for Elysium, they are actually running controlled trials that apart from Chromadex I don't see other vendors conducting. (I forgot that there is Longevenix with eye trials, and I might not know of others). I have always thought it has been great news that the Nobel laureates are convinced enough by NR and/or the model of running trials on all of their products, to help on a science advisory board. As George Church said in the article linked above, it also helps keep companies on the straight and narrow.

 

 

You make a great point and there are others.

 

Thorne Research Announces Clinical Study to Assess Nicotinamide Riboside on Brain NAD+ in College Football Players

 

Clinical Study link

 

​Actually this is the very area vendors are using to differentiate themselves from one another. The science derived from the mouse and rat studies need human trial confirmation.  So all a marketing gurus need do is look to the animal studies and pick the low hanging fruit and put together a human study. Its all about headlines and who can say they did what. I see a lot of fertile ground ahead where the distributers can seek to out market the next guy by confirming the science already suggested in the animal studies.

 

JMHO as always

 

PS And also this an area where Universities draw in publicity. So this approach is tried and true.  

 

Human clinical trials currently in process

Edited by Bryan_S, 12 January 2017 - 08:22 AM.

[bluemoon]

 

NR has also shown a great deal of promise in, muscle, heart and liver issues along with pretty much anything that is age related or possibly due to a NAD deficiency of which they think their are many.....Throughout this thread there are links to NR research on all sorts of different medical issues that have shown promise...Which would encompass a wide range of expensive pharmaceutical drugs being made redundant if NR turns out to be what we all hope it is....

 

 

I'm not sure how much profit there is for liver improvement pills. I included beta blockers and statins for the heart, but those are available as generics. Maybe add ACE inhibitors, which are also available as generics.  One wild card is mild dementia but doubt NR could do too much in that area. I could see NR as an anti anxiety/depression supplement (also generics) but where would NR make huge inroads into drugs on patent?

Edited by bluemoon, 11 January 2017 - 08:07 PM.

[midas]

 

 

NR has also shown a great deal of promise in, muscle, heart and liver issues along with pretty much anything that is age related or possibly due to a NAD deficiency of which they think their are many.....Throughout this thread there are links to NR research on all sorts of different medical issues that have shown promise...Which would encompass a wide range of expensive pharmaceutical drugs being made redundant if NR turns out to be what we all hope it is....

 

 

I'm not sure how much profit there is for liver improvement pills. I included beta blockers and statins for the heart, but those are available as generics. Maybe add ACE inhibitors, which are also available as generics.  One wild card is mild dementia but doubt NR could do too much in that area. I could see NR as an anti anxiety/depression supplement (also generics) but where would NR make huge inroads into drugs on patent?

 

 

OK, lets just stick with one of those. One brand name statin, rosuvastatin (Crestor, AstraZeneca) makes just under $6 billion per year in the USA alone....(and thats without the many billions that are made from generic statins)........The possible effect of something like NR and other compounds like it, if it/they turn out to be the real deal, on a lot of different illnesses, or even taken to prevent future illnesses as we age could be huge for Big Pharma....Fingers crossed

[stefan_001]

As for Elysium, they are actually running controlled trials that apart from Chromadex I don't see other vendors conducting. (I forgot that there is Longevenix with eye trials, and I might not know of others). I have always thought it has been great news that the Nobel laureates are convinced enough by NR and/or the model of running trials on all of their products, to help on a science advisory board. As George Church said in the article linked above, it also helps keep companies on the straight and narrow.

 

 

I understand what you say. But this is the problem, they are not convinced and that is why Elysium looks like a scam parading Nobel winners. They do NR a disfavor with their misleading marketing tactics:

 

Why 7 Nobel Prize Winners Do Not Validate This Anti-Aging Supplement

http://www.longevity...pplement-basis/

Thomas C. Südhof is a Stanford University neurophysiologist who won the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. He says: “The SAB [scientific advisory board] does NOT endorse the products of Elysium. Its sole role is to advise Elysium on the development and testing of its compounds.”

 

[bluemoon]

 

As for Elysium, they are actually running controlled trials that apart from Chromadex I don't see other vendors conducting. (I forgot that there is Longevenix with eye trials, and I might not know of others). I have always thought it has been great news that the Nobel laureates are convinced enough by NR and/or the model of running trials on all of their products, to help on a science advisory board. As George Church said in the article linked above, it also helps keep companies on the straight and narrow.

 

 

I understand what you say. But this is the problem, they are not convinced and that is why Elysium looks like a scam parading Nobel winners. They do NR a disfavor with their misleading marketing tactics:

 

Why 7 Nobel Prize Winners Do Not Validate This Anti-Aging Supplement

http://www.longevity...pplement-basis/

Thomas C. Südhof is a Stanford University neurophysiologist who won the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. He says: “The SAB [scientific advisory board] does NOT endorse the products of Elysium. Its sole role is to advise Elysium on the development and testing of its compounds.”

 

 

What is misleading about Elysium's marketing?

 

The post you linked to claims that critics are "assailing" Elysium. Yeah, two guys from the TR article.

 

Do you seriously think seven Nobel laureates are colluding in a scam? They really need that expansion of the summer deck?

 

They aren't being "paraded around" but are free-thinking adults and each signed on, willing to risk a reputation tarnish if NR doesn't perform well in trials. I think each was convinced something potentially big was brewing with NR. Also, from what I have read, it isn't just Guarente who is frustrated by the long FDA process so why not sell a natural compound based on eye-opening mouse trials? We also now know NR is bioavailable, which I think they did too.   

[stefan_001]

 

 

As for Elysium, they are actually running controlled trials that apart from Chromadex I don't see other vendors conducting. (I forgot that there is Longevenix with eye trials, and I might not know of others). I have always thought it has been great news that the Nobel laureates are convinced enough by NR and/or the model of running trials on all of their products, to help on a science advisory board. As George Church said in the article linked above, it also helps keep companies on the straight and narrow.

 

 

I understand what you say. But this is the problem, they are not convinced and that is why Elysium looks like a scam parading Nobel winners. They do NR a disfavor with their misleading marketing tactics:

 

Why 7 Nobel Prize Winners Do Not Validate This Anti-Aging Supplement

http://www.longevity...pplement-basis/

Thomas C. Südhof is a Stanford University neurophysiologist who won the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. He says: “The SAB [scientific advisory board] does NOT endorse the products of Elysium. Its sole role is to advise Elysium on the development and testing of its compounds.”

 

 

What is misleading about Elysium's marketing?

 

The post you linked to claims that critics are "assailing" Elysium. Yeah, two guys from the TR article.

 

Do you seriously think seven Nobel laureates are colluding in a scam? They really need that expansion of the summer deck?

 

They aren't being "paraded around" but are free-thinking adults and each signed on, willing to risk a reputation tarnish if NR doesn't perform well in trials. I think each was convinced something potentially big was brewing with NR. Also, from what I have read, it isn't just Guarente who is frustrated by the long FDA process so why not sell a natural compound based on eye-opening mouse trials? We also now know NR is bioavailable, which I think they did too.   

 

 

well they attract plenty of flak:

https://www.technolo...-aging-company/

 

“Some of these people may think that they’re being asked to do this because of their deep insights,” says former Harvard Medical School dean Jeffrey Flier, an expert in metabolism. “That’s the part that’s a joke. They're not. They are part of a marketing scheme where their names and reputations are being used.”

 

I guess former Harvard deans are then also non credible critics...

 

And just to be clear I don't think NR is a scam. What I say is their marketing strategy is backfiring.

 

Edited by stefan_001, 11 January 2017 - 10:37 PM.

[Nate-2004]

Since senescent cells (SASP) are what may be at the root of NAD+ depletion with age, drugs that target senescent cells should be the primary goal. Before you buy more NR, please put some money into researching this drug. The crowdfund campaign for this research is $28,000 short with 3 days to go. Just 1300 more people donating $25 would be enough to help out. I am positive we have that at least half that many people have been watching and/or participating in this thread. Please share on your FB and share with everyone you know.

 

Link to the campaign.

 

Link to the official thread.

[mrkosh1]

What I'd like to see is Chromadex run a trial on very old adults (lets say 75 years old or more), give them NR for a few months, and see what signs of rejuvenation they can find.

[sthira]

What I'd like to see is Chromadex run a trial on very old adults (lets say 75 years old or more), give them NR for a few months, and see what signs of rejuvenation they can find.

Chromadex, of course, would have financial reasons for seeing studies involving their product succeed.

But Nicotinamide mononucleotide will be trialed on ten healthy humans in Japan by Keio University beginning soon. And that's encouraging -- especially since Japan has fast-tracked some of the grinding regulatory machinations we have in the US.

[bluemoon]

 

What I'd like to see is Chromadex run a trial on very old adults (lets say 75 years old or more), give them NR for a few months, and see what signs of rejuvenation they can find.

Chromadex, of course, would have financial reasons for seeing studies involving their product succeed.

But Nicotinamide mononucleotide will be trialed on ten healthy humans in Japan by Keio University beginning soon. And that's encouraging -- especially since Japan has fast-tracked some of the grinding regulatory machinations we have in the US.

 

 

But the U.S. doesn't have grinding regulatory machinations for a natural compound like NMN or NR. Also, I think the trial has been completed since it began last summer.

[Nate-2004]

 

 

 But the U.S. doesn't have grinding regulatory machinations for a natural compound like NMN or NR. 

 

 

Wait, what?

[samstersam]

 

 

 

 But the U.S. doesn't have grinding regulatory machinations for a natural compound like NMN or NR. 

 

 

Wait, what?

 

 

I think bluemoon is referring to the fact that the FDA doesn't require testing or regulations into the supplement industry since NR is not considered a pharmaceutical drug.

 

I believe this is the very reason Elysium claims to have entered as a supplement. To fast track it to the public instead of a decade of expensive regulatory tests for FDA approval, which by then would be too late for some of us (and some of them)

Edited by samstersam, 18 January 2017 - 02:20 PM.

[Nate-2004]

Ah right. Which is fantastic. We'd be better off without them. I don't know if I'd call NR a supplement though.

[bluemoon]

 

 

 

I believe this is the very reason Elysium claims to have entered as a supplement. To fast track it to the public instead of a decade of expensive regulatory tests for FDA approval, which by then would be too late for some of us (and some of them)

 

 

Guarente was interviewed by Robert Pappas three years ago and says toward the end: "These [NR and NMN] are natural products so these are likely to be safe and that's going to have to be confirmed, but they're very likely to be safe. So the question is does it make sense to wait 15 years before you can get the benefit of something like NAD supplementation? Someone my age - I'm thinking I don't want to wait 15 years. I want to be able to try something like this, that's likely to be safe, sooner rather than later."

 

I don't understand why he said 15 years. That was in early 2014, and I can't believe pharmaceuticals will take until anywhere near 2029 to have something that affects NAD by then,

[Nate-2004]

 

 

Guarente was interviewed by Robert Pappas three years ago and says toward the end: "These [NR and NMN] are natural products so these are likely to be safe and that's going to have to be confirmed, but they're very likely to be safe. So the question is does it make sense to wait 15 years before you can get the benefit of something like NAD supplementation? Someone my age - I'm thinking I don't want to wait 15 years. I want to be able to try something like this, that's likely to be safe, sooner rather than later."

 

I don't understand why he said 15 years. That was in early 2014, and I can't believe pharmaceuticals will take until anywhere near 2029 to have something that affects NAD by then,

 

 

With the FDA I can believe it'd take even longer. Their security theater slows everything to a crawl. I don't get why there isn't more operation outside the U.S. What would be the motive for dealing with the FDA? I've got more hopes for progress in China.

Edited by Nate-2004, 18 January 2017 - 09:04 PM.

[Andrews]

NAD+ dependent deacetylases/deacylases SIRT1, SIRT2, SIRT3, SIRT5, SIRT6, SIRT7

ADP rybosiltransferases SIRT4, SIRT6.

 

https://books.google...- sirt4&f=false

[Andrews]

What do you think about this product? https://www.amazon.c...ding=UTF8&psc=1

Is it chromadex nicotinamide riboside?

[midas]

What do you think about this product? https://www.amazon.c...ding=UTF8&psc=1

Is it chromadex nicotinamide riboside?

 

Yes it is....Niagen is Chromadex's trade marked name for NR

[Heisok]

Sorry. Never mind. Duplicate.

Edited by Heisok, 22 January 2017 - 08:19 PM.

[Andrews]

NR boosts NAD+ which activates Sirt1 and Sirt3.  NAD+  dependent deacetylases/deacylases SIRT1, SIRT2, SIRT3, SIRT5, SIRT6, SIRT7.  These are six sirtuins not two.

I dont understand something.

What is more effective for man? Nicotamide Riboside or NADH?

Edited by Andrews, 23 January 2017 - 09:38 AM.

[Bryan_S]

No evidence that NR or NAD+ precursors cause brain cancer

http://aboutnr.com/2...e-brain-cancer/

 

About NR

Scientific Editorial Board

Charles Brenner, PhD.

ROY J. CARVER CHAIR AND HEAD OF BIOCHEMISTRY; UNIVERSITY OF IOWA

 

Roger Kornberg, PhD.

STANFORD MEDICAL SCHOOL PROFESSOR; NOBEL PRIZE WINNER - CHEMISTRY 2006

 

Amy Boileau, PhD., R.D.

DIRECTOR OF SCIENTIFIC AFFAIRS, CHROMADEX

 

Marie Migaud, PhD.

ABRAHAM MITCHELL PROFESSOR OF ONCOLOGIC SCIENCES AT THE MITCHELL CANCER INSTITUTE

 

 

Ongoing research

 

Human Clinical Trials

 

 

http://aboutnr.com

Edited by Bryan_S, 24 January 2017 - 03:07 PM.

[albedo]

In case you have not seen it:

 

Lehmann S, Loh SH, Martins LM. Enhancing NAD+ salvage metabolism is neuroprotective in a PINK1 model of Parkinson's disease. Biol Open. 2016

http://bio.biologist...2/14/bio.022186

 

Also check the video:

 

Familial forms of Parkinson's disease (PD) caused by mutations in PINK1 are linked to mitochondrial impairment. Defective mitochondria are also found in Drosophila models of PD with pink1 mutations. The co-enzyme nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD⁺) is essential for both generating energy in mitochondria and nuclear DNA repair through NAD⁺-consuming poly(ADP-ribose) polymerases (PARPs). We found alterations in NAD⁺ salvage metabolism in Drosophila pink1 mutants and showed that a diet supplemented with the NAD⁺ precursor nicotinamide rescued mitochondrial defects and protected neurons from degeneration. Additionally, a mutation of Parp improved mitochondrial function and was neuroprotective in the pink1 mutants. We conclude that enhancing the availability of NAD⁺ by either the use of a diet supplemented with NAD⁺ precursors or the inhibition of NAD⁺-dependent enzymes, such as PARPs, which compete with mitochondria for NAD⁺ is a viable approach to preventing neurotoxicity associated with mitochondrial defects.

 

 pink1.PNG   198.14KB   3 downloads

 

[Nate-2004]

In case you have not seen it:

 

Lehmann S, Loh SH, Martins LM. Enhancing NAD+ salvage metabolism is neuroprotective in a PINK1 model of Parkinson's disease. Biol Open. 2016

http://bio.biologist...2/14/bio.022186

 

Also check the video:

 

Familial forms of Parkinson's disease (PD) caused by mutations in PINK1 are linked to mitochondrial impairment. Defective mitochondria are also found in Drosophila models of PD with pink1 mutations. The co-enzyme nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD⁺) is essential for both generating energy in mitochondria and nuclear DNA repair through NAD⁺-consuming poly(ADP-ribose) polymerases (PARPs). We found alterations in NAD⁺ salvage metabolism in Drosophila pink1 mutants and showed that a diet supplemented with the NAD⁺ precursor nicotinamide rescued mitochondrial defects and protected neurons from degeneration. Additionally, a mutation of Parp improved mitochondrial function and was neuroprotective in the pink1 mutants. We conclude that enhancing the availability of NAD⁺ by either the use of a diet supplemented with NAD⁺ precursors or the inhibition of NAD⁺-dependent enzymes, such as PARPs, which compete with mitochondria for NAD⁺ is a viable approach to preventing neurotoxicity associated with mitochondrial defects.

 

pink1.PNG

 

Someone recently on reddit suggested to me that Essential Tremor was also suspected of being related to mitochondrial disfunction of some kind. However mine began at 12 years old, but has since my mid 30's gotten worse and is worse today than ever. Supplementing NR has not slowed down its progression. Adding Hydrogen Water and vitamin D has helped in temporary spurts of a week or two but in the end, haven't made a real dent. I'm trying BroccoMax with NR and other anti-inflammatory supplements and foods like curcumin, magnesium, fish oil, ginger, garlic, etc. I'm not sure if these over time will help at all but so far, nothing has helped. 

 

I'm upset that all the attention is on Parkinson's which affects only 3 million people while Essential Tremor affects more than 10 million. I suppose because it's deadly, but still, ET is debilitating. Both diseases are movement disorders and are considered related in that sense.

 

I've also tried taking magnesium prior to workouts, Rhonda Patrick said it may help with mitochondrial biogenesis.

Edited by Nate-2004, 26 January 2017 - 10:37 PM.

[bluemoon]

I hadn't checked Elysium's website in a while and noticed that they put up the first results of the trial conducted last summer but only gave the 250 mg NR with 50 mg of pterostilbine results, excluding that 500 mg of NR with 100 mg increase NAD+ levels 90%. They do mention that the double dose group existed, though. 

 

• Results

  40% average increase in NAD+ levels within a month, maintained for the duration of the trial

• Participants

  120 healthy men and women aged 60-80

• Duration

  Eight weeks

• Randomized

  Patients assigned to different groups (placebo, recommended dose, double recommended dose) randomly to avoid bias

• Double-Blind

  Neither the participants nor the researchers know which participants belong to each group

• Placebo-Controlled

  The control group of a study receives a placebo (an inert substance) to account for effects of treatment that don’t rely on the treatment itself

[mrkosh1]

It sure would be nice if they had done a trial of NR alone and the other compound alone.

 

 

[bluemoon]

It sure would be nice if they had done a trial of NR alone and the other compound alone.

 

I agree and that is what Cromadex is doing this spring. Their study is similar to Elysium Basis' study but 1) without the pterostilbine and 2) 40 to 60 year olds. 

 

We are getting the information, but it sure comes in at a snail's pace. Why didn't Chromadex do this two years ago? Why isn't Elysium putting results of their trial up now? 

 

I have a feeling it is because the results aren't that impressive, especially for the younger and really healthy. 

[Bryan_S]

ChromaDex: Response To The Claim Niagen Is Just 'Expensive Vitamin B3'

 

Dr. Brenner responds to misinformation being spread in the short & distort articles claiming NR is just the same thing as Niacin and nicotinamide.

http://seekingalpha....sive-vitamin-b3

[Bryan_S]

Mitochondrial dysfunction is the root cause of many diseases

 

https://www.scienced...70126093255.htm

 

I find this idea of "A back-up system to protect cells from mitochondrial damage" very interesting and would like to see more work from Howy Jacobs.

 

A BACK-UP SYS­TEM TO PRO­TECT CELLS FROM MI­TO­CHON­DRIAL DAM­AGE

"Since this research been going on for well over a century, it's clear that mitochondria only give up their mysteries rather slowly.

 

– For the past decade our focus has been on a particular 'back-up' system found in the mitochondria of lower organisms, but which has been lost during the evolution of complex animals such as humans or fruit flies. This back-up system kicks in when the regular energy-generating system of the mitochondria is overloaded, damaged or poisoned, protecting the cell against the harmful stresses of having a malfunctioning 'engine'. Indeed, mitochondria can be thought of rather like a car engine, that burns fuel (food molecules), and recovers the energy in a useful form to drive the processes of life. A malfunctioning engine imparts less energy but also creates toxic by-products as a result of incomplete combustion. Mitochondria are very similar, Jacob clarifies.

 

Jacob's team has transplanted the back-up or 'alternative' respiratory machinery from the mitochondria of lower organisms to human cells, showing that it can protect against pathological stresses, and even lethal poisons like cyanide, that target the mitochondria.  

 

– This could have medical applications even within the next decade. But part of our work is still focused on very basic processes inside mitochondria. And there are always new surprises, sometimes relating to topics that have been neglected or have been impossible to study until the right tools became available, says Jacobs

 

An example is Jacob's current work in collaboration with a team in Paris, to try to measure the actual temperature at which the mitochondrial engine operates."

 

We've posted other articles from HELDA - Digital Repository of the University of Helsinki and they are on the bleeding edge of Mitochondrial research.

 

Effective treatment of mitochondrial myopathy by nicotinamide riboside, a vitamin B3

 

[Nate-2004]

ChromaDex: Response To The Claim Niagen Is Just 'Expensive Vitamin B3'

 

Dr. Brenner responds to misinformation being spread in the short & distort articles claiming NR is just the same thing as Niacin and nicotinamide.

http://seekingalpha....sive-vitamin-b3

 

Holy crap that seeking alpha site is annoying. All the things I had to do just to read the interview.  I don't know who's claiming that it's expensive B3 but this is a good explanation of why it isn't the same thing.

Edited by Nate-2004, 01 February 2017 - 08:07 PM.

[bluemoon]

 

Holy crap that seeking alpha site is annoying. All the things I had to do just to read the interview.  I don't know who's claiming that it's expensive B3 but this is a good explanation of why it isn't the same thing.

 

 

Here is part of the interview:

 

Brenner:    NR is the only NAD-boosting compound that elevates metabolism, protects damaged nerves, extends lifespan in mice and other model systems, and increases insulin sensitivity. Inexpensive NAD precursors are not STACs and cannot substitute for NR. We are dealing with an aging population with a high incidence of chronic diseases that involve inflammation, insulin insensitivity, neuropathy and heart diseases, all of which can potentially be addressed uniquely by NR. You can be assured that there is no other NAD precursor that can do what NR does. 

 

 

But what about NMN? The interview does not mention that molecule and compares NR, Naicin and nicotinamide.