2255 replies to this topic

[warner]

Is this the "blood test" Sinclair is using? http://www.aging-us....cle/100968/text

http://www.aging.ai/

From the paper:

 

The ensemble also identified the 5 most important markers for predicting human chronological age: albumin, glucose, alkaline phosphatase, urea and erythrocytes. ... The analysis of relative feature importance within the DNNs helped deduce the most important features that may shed light on the contribution of these systems to the aging process, ranked in the following order: metabolic, liver, renal system and respiratory function. ... Another interesting finding was the extraordinarily high importance of albumin, which primarily controls the oncotic pressure of blood. Albumin declines during aging and is associated with sarcopenia [23]. The second marker by relative importance is glucose, which is directly linked to metabolic health.

 

where albumin, BUN (urea), and hemoglobin/hematocrit (erythrocytes) are well-known measures of kidney (renal) function/aging, and where declining kidney function is strongly associated with cardiovascular disease.  The relative importance of kidney aging is not discussed much in forums like this.  Interestingly, in recent years kidney aging/decline has been associated with phosphorus and protein intake (and higher nutrient intake in general), but not with calories per se:

 

High dietary phosphorus intake is associated with all-cause mortality

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24225358

 

In other words, to preserve kidney function over time, reduce the work they are asked to do, with the work load having more to do with specific nutrient processing than with calories (i.e., for the most part your kidneys don't care how much carb or fat you're converting to carbon dioxide and water).  That fits well with the research showing that protein restriction has more to do with reduced aging than calorie restriction.

 

Kidney decline is also tied to NAD+ decline, so hopefully NR will help with that:

 

Role of NAD+ and mitochondrial sirtuins in cardiac and renal diseases

http://www.nature.co...eph.2017.5.html

 

So a strategy of NR supplementation + moderate P and protein (& other nutrient) intake + adequate calories may significantly reduce kidney aging.

 

(btw, P and protein tend to occur together in whole foods, so limiting one will usually limit the other)

[MikeDC]

Niagen can reverse kidney diseases. My wife's kidney function improved 50% after 9 month of supplementation of Niagen.

[warner]

So a strategy of NR supplementation + moderate P and protein (& other nutrient) intake + adequate calories may significantly reduce kidney aging.  (btw, P and protein tend to occur together in whole foods, so limiting one will usually limit the other)

To finish that thought, here's a "Food Map" showing the relationship of P to Protein (per calorie) based on USDA food data, including a suggested target area for a reduced P & Protein diet, for those with reduced kidney function, or those who wish to reduce the natural rate of kidney decline with aging.  (I put this together for my mom who has a form of indolent (slow growing) lymphoma that produces excess immunoglobulin (antibodies) that damages her kidneys.)  This is a good illustration how slowing aging likely involves both fixing things like reduced NAD+, while also reducing the stress/load we put on our various organs/subsystems.

 

 USDA P vs Protein.jpg   152.15KB   5 downloads

 

A good question might be whether my mom should be taking NR?  That might help her kidneys, but no one knows what effect the NR would have on her lymphoma.  Based on my previous posts discussing cancer and NR, I suspect that she would be better off taking the NR (for kidneys), and that the lymphoma wouldn't be affected much by the higher NAD+ levels.  Plus, with the lymphoma being indolent, it would be easy to track (via immunoglobulin production), and react to, whether the NR was increasing its rate of growth.  But that's an experiment I'd do on myself, not my aging mom who isn't into doing such experimenting or taking such risks.

Edited by warner, 29 April 2017 - 02:36 PM.

[Fafner55]

Regarding NR and the biomarker fasting glucose, I have been taking 250 mg NR twice per day fairly consistently for about two years and it has had no effect on my fasting glucose.

 

I found success in reducing my fasting glucose levels by a fasting mimicking diet. For over 10 years my glucose levels averaged in the mid to upper 90s mg/dL. After a single fasting mimicking diet (3/17-22/2017), my glucose levels now average in the mid 80s.

 

Incidentally, my estimated biological age from http://www.aging.ai/  Aging.AI 2.0 is 28 years, which, while reassuring, makes me skeptical of its accuracy. I am nearly 62.

 

 2017-04-29 Fasting glucose results.jpg   137.47KB   3 downloads

 

My apologies for drifting off topic.

1. http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2015/06/26/one-week-two-innovations-in-aging-and-health/

2. “A Periodic Diet that Mimics Fasting Promotes Multi-System Regeneration, Enhanced Cognitive Performance, and Healthspan” (2015) http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00224-7

3. “A Diet Mimicking Fasting Promotes Regeneration and Reduces Autoimmunity and Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms” (2016) https://prolonfmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/cell-press-may-2016.pdf

4. http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2017/02/24/fasting-mimicking-diet-can-you-make-it-a-habit/

5. “Fasting-mimicking diet and markers/risk factors for aging, diabetes, cancer, and cardiovascular disease” (2017) http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/9/377/eaai8700

6. “Fasting-mimicking diet may reverse diabetes” (2017) https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-02-fasting-mimicking-diet-reverse-diabetes.html

7. "Fasting-mimicking diet promotes Ngn3-driven β-cell regeneration to reverse diabetes" (2017) http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7

8. https://thequantifiedbody.net/fast-mimicking-diet/

9. http://agingadvice.org/FMD-Recipes.html

[soulprogrammer]

"Incidentally, my estimated biological age from http://www.aging.ai/  Aging.AI 2.0 is 28 years, which, while reassuring, makes me skeptical of its accuracy. I am nearly 62"

 

According to the Aging AI 2.0 website, its accuracy is +/- 5 years. And when I test my biological age, it reported my B Age is 41, Male, and my C Age is 47. So it is pretty accurate. The blood test I done one day (more than 1 month ago) before I start taking NR. 

 

"Try it yourself. I am 56 but it says I'm 39 by biological age and I've been taking NR for about a year.", VP

 

Plus David Sinclair, from 58 to 32 B Age.

 

So, we already have N=3 data to show it works. 

 

Can please more people try the Aging AI 2.0 B Age testing, so we can have larger sample to see if NR really reverse aging as it claimed? MikeDC, bluemoon, Bryan, ... please do a test on the Aging AI 2.0, since it is free anyway. Remember if you don't have a marker in the form, leave it blank. For example, my blood test does not have iron info, I just leave it blank.

 

 

[bluemoon]

 

Can please more people try the Aging AI 2.0 B Age testing, so we can have larger sample to see if NR really reverse aging as it claimed? MikeDC, bluemoon, Bryan, ... please do a test on the Aging AI 2.0, since it is free anyway. Remember if you don't have a marker in the form, leave it blank. For example, my blood test does not have iron info, I just leave it blank.

 

 I went to try the test, but I don't have nearly enough data points, just: sodium, potassium, chloride, carbon dioxide, glucose, BUN, creatinine, calcium, HDL, LDL and GFR.

 

Sinclair wasn't correct to say his bloodwork showed that he had an actual biological age of 32 but maybe the journalist didn't get that right. I also find it interesting that from interviews I've read and talks he has given that Sinclair doesn't mention NR at all. 

 

 

Edited by bluemoon, 29 April 2017 - 05:29 PM.

[Journey2016]

NR alone will prevent almost all cancers including skin cancers. NR stimulate DNA repair to prevent cancer.

NR is THE prevention? Well, d-d-daaayyum. My 14 year old brain is learning every day new insights.

Im interested in this also as my girlfiriend had hodkins lyohoma last year, she did 4 months chemo and they gave her the all clear.. would taking NR effect this?

Edited by Michael, 05 May 2017 - 02:53 AM.
trim quotes

[MikeDC]

NR alone will prevent almost all cancers including skin cancers. NR stimulate DNA repair to prevent cancer.

NR is THE prevention? Well, d-d-daaayyum. My 14 year old brain is learning every day new insights.

Im interested in this also as my girlfiriend had hodkins lyohoma last year, she did 4 months chemo and they gave her the all clear.. would taking NR effect this?

Some ignorant people think it is funny that NR prevent cancer. It has been accepted that Cancer is a metabolic diseases due to malfunctioning Mitochandria and low NAD+ is at the heart of it.
If you don't understand something doesn't mean it is not right.

Edited by Michael, 05 May 2017 - 02:57 AM.
trim quotes

[MikeDC]

Some ignorant people think it is funny that NR prevent cancer. It has been accepted that Cancer is a metabolic diseases due to malfunctioning Mitochandria and low NAD+ is at the heart of it.
If you don't understand something doesn't mean it is not right.

http://articles.merc...ic-disease.aspx

Edited by Michael, 05 May 2017 - 02:58 AM.

[Valijon]

We should always review all information with a critical eye. Substances which increase NAD+ are certainly exciting. These are very early days still. Maybe you would like to take some NR and maybe you wouldn't. There are many other ways to increase energy or slow ageing. If I had to choose between NR and say something such as rapamycin, I'd take rapamycin.

No one wants cheerleading of a company or product here. If your like to do some cheerleading, there are plenty of stock forums on places like Yahoo where you can do this day and night to your hearts content.

[MikeDC]

We should always review all information with a critical eye. Substances which increase NAD+ are certainly exciting. These are very early days still. Maybe you would like to take some NR and maybe you wouldn't. There are many other ways to increase energy or slow ageing. If I had to choose between NR and say something such as rapamycin, I'd take rapamycin.

No one wants cheerleading of a company or product here. If your like to do some cheerleading, there are plenty of stock forums on places like Yahoo where you can do this day and night to your hearts content.

We are not cheer leading. You are in denials. Go ahead and take Rapamycin. Let's see who lives longer and without side effects.
If you are against NR, just leave us alone or start an anti NR thread.

[Valijon]

If I had limited funds, I'd choose Rapamycin. As for who would live longer, I feel the science behind Mtorc1 inhibitors carries more weight. There's something slimy about this Dr Sinclair. I'm not against NR. We should all examine everything carefully and not blindly throw money at something in the hopes that we will see measureable and sustained positive results.

[soulprogrammer]

We should always review all information with a critical eye. Substances which increase NAD+ are certainly exciting. These are very early days still. Maybe you would like to take some NR and maybe you wouldn't. There are many other ways to increase energy or slow ageing. If I had to choose between NR and say something such as rapamycin, I'd take rapamycin.

No one wants cheerleading of a company or product here. If your like to do some cheerleading, there are plenty of stock forums on places like Yahoo where you can do this day and night to your hearts content.

 

I don't understand. Isn't the moderator has keep reminding this is an NR curated thread, which should not discuss my vitamin is better than yours, etc.

 

Please start a thread like "Rapamycin is better alternative than NR", and I believe those who are interested will join your discussion in a new and related thread, not this one!  (I will also read your new thread)

 

Can the moderator please remove those posting not related to NR, or some debating issue like my vitamin is superior than yours...blah blah blah. 

Edited by soulprogrammer, 30 April 2017 - 09:08 AM.

[stefan_001]

Niagen can reverse kidney diseases. My wife's kidney function improved 50% after 9 month of supplementation of Niagen.

Hey Mike here some research to back you up. Ok they used NMN but I see that as similar purpose as NR. Wild-type 129S2/Sv mice and C57BL/6 mice having kidney benefits in AKI situation from NAD+ boosting. I guess your wife doesn't have acute kidney injury but the study nevertheless shows that NAD+ can have a healing effect in kidneys.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28246130

Edited by stefan_001, 30 April 2017 - 09:34 PM.

[soulprogrammer]

@MikeDC, since you and your wife already have blood test results, could you try the Aging AI 2.0 test to see what is you and your wife B. Age?

 

And for others who have taking NR quite a while, and if you also have a recent blood test report, please try the Aging AI 2.0 test, and report your B.Age here.

 

We need more data (may not be very accurate, but if our sample size is big, then can rule out a lot of outliers) to see if it works or not. Although our data is not very accurate. 

Edited by soulprogrammer, 01 May 2017 - 10:02 AM.

[bluemoon]

@MikeDC, since you and your wife already have blood test results, could you try the Aging AI 2.0 test to see what is you and your wife B. Age?

 

And for others who have taking NR quite a while, and if you also have a recent blood test report, please try the Aging AI 2.0 test, and report your B.Age here.

 

We need more data (may not be very accurate, but if our sample size is big, then can rule out a lot of outliers) to see if it works or not. Although our data is not very accurate. 

 

1. One problem is that most blood tests won't give enough information to fill out the 30 or 40 boxes. 

 

2. We won't get more than a few more responses here, if that.

 

3. We should learn a lot when ChromaDex puts up its results sometime in June or July, hopefully including details about how much glucose levels, lipid levels, blood pressure, etc changed at 100 mg, 300 mg and 1000 mg of NR after 8 weeks. However, the CEO said they would put out "top line" results so maybe that means not much detail at all. This confused me because the results are straight forward. Maybe he means averages of each variable and at each does will be put up but not standard deviation, etc.   

[soulprogrammer]

 

@MikeDC, since you and your wife already have blood test results, could you try the Aging AI 2.0 test to see what is you and your wife B. Age?

 

And for others who have taking NR quite a while, and if you also have a recent blood test report, please try the Aging AI 2.0 test, and report your B.Age here.

 

We need more data (may not be very accurate, but if our sample size is big, then can rule out a lot of outliers) to see if it works or not. Although our data is not very accurate. 

 

1. One problem is that most blood tests won't give enough information to fill out the 30 or 40 boxes. 

 

2. We won't get more than a few more responses here, if that.

 

3. We should learn a lot when ChromaDex puts up its results sometime in June or July, hopefully including details about how much glucose levels, lipid levels, blood pressure, etc changed at 100 mg, 300 mg and 1000 mg of NR after 8 weeks. However, the CEO said they would put out "top line" results so maybe that means not much detail at all. This confused me because the results are straight forward. Maybe he means averages of each variable and at each does will be put up but not standard deviation, etc.   

 

 

Sorry a bit off-topic here..(however, I am trying to gather more data to do analysis about NR and aging, so I guess not really off-topic)

 

1. According to the paper https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4931851/, it using normal blood test dataset from Russia Lab (healthy people only, normal screening test) as data. So, I presume anyone doing a regular annual blood test will have sufficient data (like mine) to enter the data into Aging 2.0 to get a meaniningful and accurate result. Read their paper, they are using 60,000 samples to construct the deep neural network. (I have been trying to find the 60,000 dataset so that I can try to build my own DNN, but unfortunately, it is not available for public, btw, I am an engineer working on DNN). I do believe the future AI will make humans immortal. (OK. very off-topic here).

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4931851/

 

One of the major impediments in human aging research is the absence of a comprehensive and actionable set of biomarkers that may be targeted and measured to track the effectiveness of therapeutic interventions. In this study, we designed a modular ensemble of 21 deep neural networks (DNNs) of varying depth, structure and optimization to predict human chronological age using a basic blood test. To train the DNNs, we used over 60,000 samples from common blood biochemistry and cell count tests from routine health exams performed by a single laboratory and linked to chronological age and sex. The best performing DNN in the ensemble demonstrated 81.5 % epsilon-accuracy r = 0.90 with R2 = 0.80 and MAE = 6.07 years in predicting chronological age within a 10 year frame, while the entire ensemble achieved 83.5% epsilon-accuracy r = 0.91 with R2 = 0.82 and MAE = 5.55 years. The ensemble also identified the 5 most important markers for predicting human chronological age: albumin, glucose, alkaline phosphatase, urea and erythrocytes. To allow for public testing and evaluate real-life performance of the predictor, we developed an online system available at http://www.aging.ai. The ensemble approach may facilitate integration of multi-modal data linked to chronological age and sex that may lead to simple, minimally invasive, and affordable methods of tracking integrated biomarkers of aging in humans and performing cross-species feature importance analysis.

Keywords: deep learning, deep neural networks, biomarker development, aging biomarkers, human aging, machine learning

 

 

2. Well, if we can get 4-6 more people respond and post their results here, we will have about N=8-9 data already (plus one more from me soon, when I do my blood test later).

 

3. Published detail data will take very very very long time. I would rather get some preliminary educated guess here with whatever data we can gather now, rather than wait for published data. Look at Elysium human clinical trial, they still not yet published their data.

Edited by soulprogrammer, 02 May 2017 - 12:04 AM.

[MikeDC]

This is from a poster on the yahoo board. He was talking about cholesterol.


"JerryJerryyesterday
Your right 3/13/2015 was 227 3/16/16 was 213 3/08/2017 189 ChromaDex did for me
20"

[bluemoon]

 

3. Published detail data will take very very very long time. I would rather get some preliminary educated guess here with whatever data we can gather now, rather than wait for published data. Look at Elysium human clinical trial, they still not yet published their data.

 

 

Well, good luck in getting more than 3 more people reporting blood tests here before ChromaDex releases its results in a few weeks . Hey Michael, can you put up your pre-NR and post-NR results?   

 

This is clearly the year we gain a lot of information about NR with more details in 2018. As I've said, I think Elysium isn't putting its results up on its website yet because they are mulling over possible new doses to recommend. There is a lot going on with NR and NMN that we are not privy to. 

[adamh]

Can someone tell me where the link is to get the group buy or longecity discount on niagen? I have searched but do not have the patience to go through 200+ some odd pages. There should be some easy to find spot for it. Or maybe its no longer offered?

[bluemoon]

Can someone tell me where the link is to get the group buy or longecity discount on niagen? I have searched but do not have the patience to go through 200+ some odd pages. There should be some easy to find spot for it. Or maybe its no longer offered?

 

The group buy was for HPN that supported Loungecity a bit. But I found out a couple of months ago that they sell a 3 month supply in one bottle for $79.99 and free shipping on Amazon. 

 

So at 250 mg a day, that is about $27 a month, I think about what the group buy used to be.

[Oakman]

Can someone tell me where the link is to get the group buy or longecity discount on niagen? I have searched but do not have the patience to go through 200+ some odd pages. There should be some easy to find spot for it. Or maybe its no longer offered?

 

There is a group buy thread somewhere, but no discounted board price currently beatsAlive By Natures Niagen pricing, which is the lowest. Plus it's clean, no useless fillers or silica. $50 for 60 250mg caps, a 2 mo supply at 250mg/day. Bigger discounts with quantity purchases. I have nothing to do with them, except liking to save $$ and get a clean product.

[Dallasboy]

I did the Aging AI 2.0 yesterday and filled out all the boxes from my annual blood work from January. I have been taking niagen for about 5 years at 250mg on MWF only. My AI age was 43, and my real age is 44.


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[soulprogrammer]

I did the Aging AI 2.0 yesterday and filled out all the boxes from my annual blood work from January. I have been taking niagen for about 5 years at 250mg on MWF only. My AI age was 43, and my real age is 44.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What is MWF?

[Daniel Cooper]

 

I did the Aging AI 2.0 yesterday and filled out all the boxes from my annual blood work from January. I have been taking niagen for about 5 years at 250mg on MWF only. My AI age was 43, and my real age is 44.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What is MWF?

 

 

 

Monday - Wednesday - Friday I'm guessing.

[midas]

 I have been taking niagen for about 5 years at 250mg on MWF only.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Really!.....where were you getting Niagen from 5 years ago?

[Dallasboy]

I have been taking niagen for about 5 years at 250mg on MWF only.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really!.....where were you getting Niagen from 5 years ago?

Always HPN. Did the group buys here. Just bought the 3 month supply on Amazon for $78. Yes, Monday Wednesday and Friday...3x a week. I did it for cost reasons but will start every day. I'll redo my test in jan 2018.


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[bluemoon]

I did the Aging AI 2.0 yesterday and filled out all the boxes from my annual blood work from January. I have been taking niagen for about 5 years at 250mg on MWF only. My AI age was 43, and my real age is 44.
 

 

Out of curiosity, why didn't you just take 125 mg every day, instead of repeatedly going from 0 mg to 250 mg to 0 mg to...?

 

If Chromadex's first study holds for longer periods than one day, it looks like on average you were raising your NAD+ levels by around 30%. 

[midas]

 

 

I have been taking niagen for about 5 years at 250mg on MWF only.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really!.....where were you getting Niagen from 5 years ago?

Always HPN. Did the group buys here.

 

Gotta say that seems a little strange as the group buy has only been going less than 3 years (July 2014) and HPN didn't start selling Niagen until around 3 years ago?
 

Edited by Michael, 02 May 2017 - 08:30 PM.
trim quotes

[Nate-2004]

I did the Aging AI 2.0 yesterday and filled out all the boxes from my annual blood work from January. I have been taking niagen for about 5 years at 250mg on MWF only. My AI age was 43, and my real age is 44.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I didn't realize HPN had been around that long but NR has been a thing for more than 5 years now so it makes sense.

 

I'm very curious about this Aging AI 2.0 thing, especially in regards to how it works, but let's start a separate thread about it. I have recent blood test results but I seriously doubt I have all the details required by this AI system. They only did a lipid panel, hemoglobin, STD's and other standard tests. After more than a year taking NR I'm not super impressed by the results, even if they are at a healthy "normal" level.

Edited by Nate-2004, 02 May 2017 - 06:41 PM.