124 replies to this topic

[lostfalco]

Quick update: 3rd day in on 400mg / day dosage. Nothing noticeable to report (bad nor good).

Same here. Day 3, 400mg...nothing noticeable.

[normalizing]

maybe because you are using swanson brand and it is the cheapest brand out there im assuming there is a reason for this being quality. maybe try some of the korean products since they specialize in silk production.

[lostfalco]

maybe because you are using swanson brand and it is the cheapest brand out there im assuming there is a reason for this being quality. maybe try some of the korean products since they specialize in silk production.

Hey normalizing, I totally understand the desire to see if this stuff works but I'm testing for four weeks at 400 mg/day and rikelme is testing for 16 weeks at 400mg/day...gotta give it a little time. It's only been three days and we have no reason to think (based on the studies) that three days is long enough to see any results. As I mentioned before, 3 weeks was the shortest study that I've seen. =)

 

Could you show me a link to your source for the Korean products?

[rikelme]

A week in: nothing interesting to report.

[lostfalco]

A week in: nothing interesting to report.

Agreed. No noticeable changes (energy levels, studying efficiency, etc.) or measurable changes in cambridgebrainsciences scores. 

[normalizing]

what a waste

[Lsdium]

Too bad it dident have any effect until now :(

[ceridwen]

I don't think it's even having an effect now. Unless something has changed?

[lostfalco]

what a waste

It's only been one week. Three more to go before evaluating. 

Too bad it dident have any effect until now :(

Three more weeks to go. 

I don't think it's even having an effect now. Unless something has changed?

Nothing so far. We'll see. 

[normalizing]

lostfalco, i think you should start trial with something else. you are just losing time finding something better

[lostfalco]

lostfalco, i think you should start trial with something else. you are just losing time finding something better

I've already tried just about everything else. =)

 

I'm gonna stick to the 4 week trial since that was measured in the research. 

[Lsdium]

Lostfalco can you list up about what you have tryed ?

[lostfalco]

Lostfalco can you list up about what you have tryed ?

Hey Lsdium, I don't have a typed up list for you...but I do have an 87 page thread! (with contributions from MANY others) http://www.longecity...ic-experiments/

 

I'm working on organizing and distilling everything...but it's still going to be a little while. =)

[normalizing]

 

Lostfalco can you list up about what you have tryed ?

Hey Lsdium, I don't have a typed up list for you...but I do have an 87 page thread! (with contributions from MANY others) http://www.longecity...ic-experiments/

 

I'm working on organizing and distilling everything...but it's still going to be a little while. =)

 

 

 

i checked that thread before few times but its HUGE i cannot keep up with all you have trialed and what worked and what didnt. really, maybe you can summarize it somewhere?
 

[lostfalco]

 

 

Lostfalco can you list up about what you have tryed ?

Hey Lsdium, I don't have a typed up list for you...but I do have an 87 page thread! (with contributions from MANY others) http://www.longecity...ic-experiments/

 

I'm working on organizing and distilling everything...but it's still going to be a little while. =)

 

 

i checked that thread before few times but its HUGE i cannot keep up with all you have trialed and what worked and what didnt. really, maybe you can summarize it somewhere?

I'm working on summarizing it all. =)

 

Anyway, this is rikelme's thread so let's keep the discussion over here focused on BF-7. Cool?

Edited by lostfalco, 05 November 2015 - 04:48 AM.

[Zapio]

I don't believe bf-7 will work in people with

- above average intelligence

- good brain blood flow

- not demented

 

[MoreNowAgain]

I might be giving this a try; albeit from a different source.

 

[Amorphous]

There doesn't seem like a big safety issue about dose over 400mg per day. I am going to try 800MG AFTER a little more research on the safety profile of this supplement

[rikelme]

I might be giving this a try; albeit from a different source.

 

Do you mind sharing which source is that?

There doesn't seem like a big safety issue about dose over 400mg per day. I am going to try 800MG AFTER a little more research on the safety profile of this supplement

 

If you find additional research on the BF-7, please share it here. Thanks!

[lostfalco]

I don't believe bf-7 will work in people with

- above average intelligence

- good brain blood flow

- not demented

 

Hey Zapio, I agree with you that we should be skeptical (the prior probability that any substance is going to enhance healthy people is extremely low). However, much of the research is on healthy, non-demented people (elementary school students, university students, young adults, etc.). Check out the abstracts that rikelme posted. 

http://www.longecity...ic/#entry748822

http://www.longecity...ic/#entry748848

 

Check out this summary. http://www.wholeheal...ht-bombyx-mori/

 

Read these free full text articles.

 

http://ocean.kisti.r...9_v29n2_278.pdf

"Milk Containing BF-7 Enhances the Learning and Memory, Attention, and Mathematical Ability of Normal Persons"

 

http://ibrainon.com/...pany/paper8.pdf

 

"Healthy Volunteers —–— Volunteers covered all adult ages from 19 to 64 years. It included individuals in their 20–30s who show good memory and learning ability, in their 30–40s whose memory has started to decrease , and those in their 50–60s who have a certain degree of decline in memory...Volunteers were excluded from the study if they were receiving medication and/or func-tional food, had neuropsychiatric problems, had any serious disease, had neurodegenerative disease, or were deemed not suitable for participation." 

Edited by lostfalco, 05 November 2015 - 07:18 PM.

[Zapio]

"Healthy Volunteers —–— Volunteers covered all adult ages from 19 to 64 years. It included individuals in their 20–30s who show good memory and learning ability, i"

 

I suppose it's not so important unless we know exactly what number of healthy 20-30 were in that group or research were divided into subgroups. On the other hand t-test is 0.05 which supports the claim however I will be waiting for reproduction of the studies by western researchers. Otherwise bf-7 looks like the best nootropic ever invented especially regarding iq increase by over 10 points in one of the researches. I've seen such spike only in one modafinil study in average iq group as well as neurofeedback research on adhd kids.

[meth_use_lah]

 

I don't believe bf-7 will work in people with

- above average intelligence

- good brain blood flow

- not demented

 

Hey Zapio, I agree with you that we should be skeptical (the prior probability that any substance is going to enhance healthy people is extremely low). However, much of the research is on healthy, non-demented people (elementary school students, university students, young adults, etc.). Check out the abstracts that rikelme posted. 

http://www.longecity...ic/#entry748822

http://www.longecity...ic/#entry748848

 

Check out this summary. http://www.wholeheal...ht-bombyx-mori/

 

Read these free full text articles.

 

http://ocean.kisti.r...9_v29n2_278.pdf

"Milk Containing BF-7 Enhances the Learning and Memory, Attention, and Mathematical Ability of Normal Persons"

 

http://ibrainon.com/...pany/paper8.pdf

 

"Healthy Volunteers —–— Volunteers covered all adult ages from 19 to 64 years. It included individuals in their 20–30s who show good memory and learning ability, in their 30–40s whose memory has started to decrease , and those in their 50–60s who have a certain degree of decline in memory...Volunteers were excluded from the study if they were receiving medication and/or func-tional food, had neuropsychiatric problems, had any serious disease, had neurodegenerative disease, or were deemed not suitable for participation." 

 

 

The first study used 10 mg BF-7 in 200ml milk per day and had no control.

Edited by meth_use_lah, 05 November 2015 - 09:22 PM.

[lostfalco]

 

The first study used 10 mg BF-7 in 200ml milk per day and had no control.

 

From page 1 of this thread...

 

"I'm a bit skeptical (the studies aren't of the highest quality)..."

 

http://www.longecity...ic/#entry748927

 

Don't worry meth_use_lah, I don't expect you to have checked my thread...but just for good measure I will obnoxiously quote myself again. =)

 

http://www.longecity...-86#entry749217

 

"In this study they claim that BF-7 enhanced the learning, memory, attention, and mathematical ability of 30 healthy university students. It increased accuracy in the Gronwall version of the PASAT by 3.5-fold and in the Levin version of the PASAT by 3.7-fold. There don't appear to be any controls in this study though. Just before and after scores for the 30 students."

Edited by lostfalco, 05 November 2015 - 09:47 PM.

[lostfalco]

 

I suppose it's not so important unless we know exactly what number of healthy 20-30 were in that group or research were divided into subgroups. 

I linked you multiple studies that included the number of healthy participants. Extended quote from the research summary I linked you. http://www.wholeheal...ht-bombyx-mori/

 

I agree that BF-7 is unlikely to work, but it's been tested in multiple studies (of questionable quality) in healthy people as well as in those with dementia. 

 

"What Does the Research Say? Brain Health

In a study published in 2004, researchers looked at the neuroprotective effects of particular form of silk fibroin known as BF-7.² Thirty subjects age 60 years and older were divided into two groups. One group received 200 mg of BF-7 twice a day for three weeks while the other group took a placebo.

A dementia assessment tool known as MMSE-K was used to evaluate memory, attention, concentration, calculation, language ability and spatial organization. Researchers found that intake of BF-7 improved the symptoms of cognitive decline by an average of 13 percent and as much as 31 percent.

Researchers concluded, “These results strongly represent that the BF-7 play effectively positive role in the improvement of brain function including learning and memory. Taken together, our results suggested that the BF-7 should be useful for developing strategies protecting nervous system and improving brain function.”

In a similar study published in 2009, researchers tested the effects of BF-7 on children.³Researchers divided 46 nine- and 10-year-old boys and girls into two groups. One received 200 mg of BF-7 twice a day for 16 weeks while the other half received a placebo for the same duration.

Researchers used the Color Trails Test to measure cognition and attention, as well as processing and sequencing. They found that those taking the supplement enjoyed a 23 percent boost in response time, a 43 percent decrease in error rate and saw a twofold improvement in task accuracy.

Researchers concluded, “The results reveal that BF-7 improves brain function for attention and cognitive flexibility in children.”

Finally, in a study published in 2004, researchers tested the neuroprotective effects of the essential fatty acids DHA and EPA alone versus the EFAs combined with BF-7 on 50 healthy high school students.⁴ Forty students received the BF-7/EFA combo daily for 30 days, while 10 students received just the EFAs for the same time period.

Researchers found that the ability to memorize was increased in those taking the combo by 22 percent, as compared to the EFA-alone group. Additionally, those in the combo group saw their learning gradient—the number of repetitions necessary to memorize information—decline from an average of 47 percent to just 18 percent. Additionally, the combo group enjoyed an increase in memory preservation, from 58 percent to 72 percent. Additionally, attentive concentration and short-term memory were also significantly improved.

Researchers concluded, “Taken together, our result suggested the natural product BF-7 is a good substance for the brain functionally and physiologically.”

Circulation to Brain

Studies have shown that Bombyx mori, as silk fibroin, can increase blood flow to critical areas of the brain involved in memory and learning. This was specifically seen in one study published in 2004, where researchers tested the effects of BF-7 on four normal, healthy students.⁵

After treating the students with 400 mg of BF-7, researchers tested for improved learning and memory using the K-WAIS scale. They found BF-7 treatment raised IQs from 103 on average to 114.

Researchers then tested blood flow to the brain, particularly those areas associated with learning and memory—the paraphippocampal gyrus and medial temporal area—using the Single Photon Emission Computed Tomography (SPECT). They found that blood flow was, in fact, increased in both areas. Additionally, blood supply also increased.

Memory

In a study published in 2004, researchers divided 98 people between the ages of 19 and 64 into three groups.⁶ One group received 200 mg of BF-7, the second group took 400 mg of BF-7 and the third group had a placebo every day for three weeks.

At the end of the study period, researchers found that all subjects taking the BF-7 (regardless of dosage) saw an average improvement in the memory index from 105 to 126.6. Similarly, the memory maintenance index in both groups increased from 52 percent to 61 percent.

The 200 mg group specifically saw an increase in memory recall efficiency from 31 percent to 59 percent, as well as a boost in the Intelligence Quotient and Memory Quotient consensus score from 53 percent to 79 percent.

The 400 mg group was even more impressive, boasting an increase from 41.5 percent to 66.5 percent in memory recall efficiency, and increases in the Intelligence Quotient and Memory Quotient consensus score rom 52.5 percent to 91 percent.

In an animal study published in 2013, researchers set out to determine which peptides in silk fibroin may be responsible for improving memory and cognitive function.⁷ They identified amino acid sequences from eight potential peptides and tested them on mice to determine the effects they could have on learning and memory.

They found that three in particular could improve memory. As such, they concluded, “Silk fibroin hydrolysate was a mixture of various active peptides that could enhance memory.”

How to Use Bombyx Mori

The recommended daily intake for Bombyx mori (specifically hydrolyzed silk fibroin) is 200-400 mg twice a day.

References:

1. Lee MY, et al. Korean J Phys Anthropol. 2004;17(4):313-20.
2. Kim DK, et al. Korean J Anat. 2004;37(6):519-27.
3. Kim K, et al. J Med Food. 2009;12(3):643-8.
4. Chae HS, et al. Korean J Physiol Pharmacol. 2004 Aug;8:173-9.
5. Lee SH, et al. Korean J Seric Sci. 2004;46(2):77-9.
6. Lee SH, et al. Korean J Physiol Pharmacol. 2004 Dec;8:307-12.
7. Kang YK, et al. J Microbiol Biotechnol. 2013;23(12):1779-84."

Edited by lostfalco, 05 November 2015 - 11:33 PM.

[normalizing]

just megadose it in the next few days, i doubt it will cause negative reactions the stuff seems quite impotent

[Zapio]

"After treating the students with 400 mg of BF-7, researchers tested for improved learning and memory using the K-WAIS scale. They found BF-7 treatment raised IQs from 103 on average to 114."

 

The inital iq of subjects was on average 103. I can't find a study  conducted in high iq group.

 

Edited by Zapio, 06 November 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[lostfalco]

The inital iq of subjects was on average 103. I can't find a study  conducted in high iq group.

No worries, Zapio. =)

 

This is from the first study that rikelme posted on this thread. http://www.longecity...as-a-nootropic/

 

Free full text pdf:  http://www.researchg...04dea000000.pdf

 

"The average intelligence of subjects in this study was of a high average level. Children with a high level of intelligence might have high cognitive functions, including attention and cognitive flexibility. To obtain any improvement in brain function from individuals of high-level intelligence is relatively difficult compared to normal children. Nevertheless, BF-7 was able to improve brain function in these children with high levels of intelligence." 

 

This study was done, "...with 46 schoolchildren, who were highly ranked academically..." and they were, "divided into two groups: BF-7 (9.91.18 years old; 9 boys, 14 girls) and placebo (9.81.03 years old; 10 boys, 13 girls)."

 

 

 

Edited by lostfalco, 06 November 2015 - 07:32 PM.

[Zapio]

""The average intelligence of subjects in this study was of a high average level. Children with a high level of intelligence might have high cognitive functions, including attention and cognitive flexibility. To obtain any improvement in brain function from individuals of high-level intelligence is relatively difficult compared to normal children. Nevertheless, BF-7 was able to improve brain function in these children with high levels of intelligence."

 

In this study average iq was 115 with 9 points sd. Nevertheless this study doesn't measure outcome iq in the bf-7 group. It simply tests "Color Trails Making Test" which looks similar to Stroop test. Both of this tests measure attention and executive skills. Are there any other studies measuring effects on iq in high iq group ( in a range 130+ ) ? Also thank you for taking time to link to the studies.

[Reformed-Redan]

I've been taking this compound almost every day since the start of this thread and can attest to positive effects on cognition. 

 

Concepts and ideas seem easier to flow and understand.

 

I try and take 800 mg a day so therein might be the difference or I might be better at absorbing the stuff into my bloodstream. 

 

I'd like to know if there is anything that can increase the absorption of this compound as it seems that higher doses are only effective (at least for me).

[lostfalco]

""The average intelligence of subjects in this study was of a high average level. Children with a high level of intelligence might have high cognitive functions, including attention and cognitive flexibility. To obtain any improvement in brain function from individuals of high-level intelligence is relatively difficult compared to normal children. Nevertheless, BF-7 was able to improve brain function in these children with high levels of intelligence."

 

In this study average iq was 115 with 9 points sd. Nevertheless this study doesn't measure outcome iq in the bf-7 group. It simply tests "Color Trails Making Test" which looks similar to Stroop test. Both of this tests measure attention and executive skills. Are there any other studies measuring effects on iq in high iq group ( in a range 130+ ) ? Also thank you for taking time to link to the studies.

No problem, man. I've pretty much linked you to every human study on BF-7 I can find in English. =)

 

If you find more let me know!

 

The only study measuring IQ changes that I've found is the one in four students that you mentioned previously. http://www.longecity...e-2#entry750392

Edited by lostfalco, 06 November 2015 - 08:34 PM.