124 replies to this topic

[lostfalco]

I've been taking this compound almost every day since the start of this thread and can attest to positive effects on cognition. 

 

Concepts and ideas seem easier to flow and understand.

 

I try and take 800 mg a day so therein might be the difference or I might be better at absorbing the stuff into my bloodstream. 

 

I'd like to know if there is anything that can increase the absorption of this compound as it seems that higher doses are only effective (at least for me).

Thanks for the report, yada! So you've been taking 800mg/day for two weeks? Interesting. 

 

It's a peptide chain consisting primarily of glycine, alanine, and serine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibroin  I think we are probably pretty good at absorbing it already. 

Edited by lostfalco, 06 November 2015 - 08:51 PM.

[Zapio]

This is worth to mention that if you buy neurosilk from swanson shop you can find 10-20% coupon codes. I've decided I will test this next month with uridine/inosine/choline/krill oil combo

Edited by Zapio, 06 November 2015 - 09:05 PM.

[Amorphous]

I started 200mg twice daily a few days ago and I didn't up the dose to 400mg twice daily yet as I was still looking for safety issue of higher dose. I came across a different preparation of Bombyx mori and I was little confused about difference between Bombyx mori and Brain factor 7. Now I kind of realized brain factor 7 is some of the specific extract of Bombyx mori that targets the brain whereas the other preparation basically act as a vasodilator (to genitals) and androgen

 

http://www.amazon.co...rds=Bombyx mori

 

However, whether brain factor 7 still (or how much it still) contains the vasodilator and androgen I am not sure, but 400mg twice daily (800mg/day) is still within the recommended dose for improving brain function as shown in the previous losfalco's post

 

How to Use Bombyx Mori

The recommended daily intake for Bombyx mori (specifically hydrolyzed silk fibroin) is 200-400 mg twice a day.

 

I didn't feeling any effect from the 200mg twice daily dose. I've just upped my evening dose to 400mg but I still couldn't tell the differences. 

Edited by Amorphous, 08 November 2015 - 07:04 AM.

[Zapio]

I started 200mg twice daily a few days ago and I didn't up the dose to 400mg twice daily yet as I was still looking for safety issue of higher dose. I came across a different preparation of Bombyx mori and I was little confused about difference between Bombyx mori and Brain factor 7. Now I kind of realized brain factor 7 is some of the specific extract of Bombyx mori that targets the brain whereas the other preparation basically act as a vasodilator (to genitals) and androgen

 

http://www.amazon.co...rds=Bombyx mori

 

However, whether brain factor 7 still (or how much it still) contains the vasodilator and androgen I am not sure, but 400mg twice daily (800mg/day) is still within the recommended dose for improving brain function as shown in the previous losfalco's post

 

How to Use Bombyx Mori

The recommended daily intake for Bombyx mori (specifically hydrolyzed silk fibroin) is 200-400 mg twice a day.

 

I didn't feeling any effect from the 200mg twice daily dose. I've just upped my evening dose to 400mg but I still couldn't tell the differences. 

 

Maybe somebody who has neurosilk can take megadose like 1g or higher and measure before and after blood pressure.
 

[lostfalco]

I came across a different preparation of Bombyx mori and I was little confused about difference between Bombyx mori and Brain factor 7. Now I kind of realized brain factor 7 is some of the specific extract of Bombyx mori that targets the brain whereas the other preparation basically act as a vasodilator (to genitals) and androgen

 

http://www.amazon.co...rds=Bombyx mori

 

However, whether brain factor 7 still (or how much it still) contains the vasodilator and androgen I am not sure, but 400mg twice daily (800mg/day) is still within the recommended dose for improving brain function as shown in the previous losfalco's post

 

Hey, what's up Amorphous? BF-7 is silk (fibroin, technically) while Bombyx mori extract (extract from crushed silkworms) is the actual silkworm. Two different things. =)

[Amorphous]

Thanks for the clarification. I also found some source of silk protein from alibaba.com, but not quite sure about the differences. Is there another source of bf7 other than Swanson's? Somehow I am feeling more swift and relaxed today after the morning dose of 400mg, perhaps maybe because today is also a Sunday. I'll continue this dosage and hopefully more positive effects will result.

[di36]

Any news?

[Ark]

You'd need at least 2800 mg to notice a effect in my opinion.

[rikelme]

It's hard to tell. I've been taking 400mg per day, 3 weeks now. I'm doing cambridgebrainsciences 2-3 per week in the evening, but mu performance is mostly affected by the amount of cognitive load and stress I had that day and the quality of sleep (which fluctuates a lot in recent months).

 

I'll keep taking it as it doesn't seem to do any harm and I'll try to provide you guys with a short report every week.

[lostfalco]

3 weeks in as well. 400mg/day. No noticeable changes positive or negative; subjective or measured (cambridgebrainsciences). 

[Ark]

You'd need at least 2800 mg to notice a effect in my opinion.

To everyone who neg repped me, that's why you won't find anyone claiming effectiveness on this thread because it's being under dosed. P.s. BF 7 isn't as strong as crushed silk worms... So my measurements reflected that.

Edited by Ark, 17 November 2015 - 01:40 AM.

[lostfalco]

 

You'd need at least 2800 mg to notice a effect in my opinion.

To everyone who neg repped me, that's why you won't find anyone claiming effectiveness on this thread because it's being under dosed. P.s. BF 7 isn't as strong as crushed silk worms... So my measurements reflected that.

 

Hey Ark, BF-7 is silk (fibroin) and silkworm extract is crushed silkworms. Silk is not the same as a silkworm in the same way that milk is not the same as a cow. You cannot decide your dose of silk based on the dose of the silkworm itself. Don't worry, I had to double check that they were different things when I first found out about BF-7 and silkworm extract. =)

 

This study used 10mg BF-7 in milk. http://ocean.kisti.r...9_v29n2_278.pdf

 

This study used 200mg and 400mg.   http://ibrainon.com/...pany/paper8.pdf

"The final analysis included 32 in the placebo group, 33 in the BF-7 200 mg group, and 34 in the BF-7 400 mg group, because only 99 examinees completed the test." 

 

This article discusses various doses used in studies of BF-7. Check it out for more info. http://www.wholeheal...ht-bombyx-mori/

 

Do you have a study showing 2800mg of BF-7 causes an effect?

 

 

Here are some quotes discussing the difference between silkworms and silk fibroin. http://www.wholeheal...ht-bombyx-mori/

 

"While in the larvae stage, the silkworms create an insoluble protein known as silk fibroin. The fibroin is the structural center of the raw silk the worms create to build their cocoon."

 

"Researchers have found that if you take the silk fibroin and filter it, purify it and hydrolyze it—or break it down into its component amino acids—it has several medicinal and therapeutic benefits, primarily related to brain health."

Edited by lostfalco, 17 November 2015 - 02:38 AM.

[Ark]

I'd like to point out that the studies I've read have been done on children, I'd argue a 186 pound male is going to need a higher dosage. As for the 2800mg comment I made, it was based off a study I think I read a few years ago.

[lostfalco]

I'd like to point out that the studies I've read have been done on children, I'd argue a 186 pound male is going to need a higher dosage. As for the 2800mg comment I made, it was based off a study I think I read a few years ago.

Many of the studies cited in this thread used adults. None of them used 2800mg of BF-7. If you have the study then I'm happy to take a look at it. =)

 

See all of the studies that rikelme posted. 

http://www.longecity...ic/#entry748822

http://www.longecity...ic/#entry748848

 

I've linked you two free full text studies and a summary article that discusses most of then known BF-7 studies in humans (it has citations at the bottom that you can look up if you so desire). http://www.longecity...e-3#entry751544

 

Here are two examples of the doses used in studies that included adults. http://www.wholeheal...ht-bombyx-mori/

 

"Thirty subjects age 60 years and older were divided into two groups. One group received 200 mg of BF-7 twice a day for three weeks while the other group took a placebo."

 

"In a study published in 2004, researchers divided 98 people between the ages of 19 and 64 into three groups.⁶ One group received 200 mg of BF-7, the second group took 400 mg of BF-7..."

Edited by lostfalco, 17 November 2015 - 03:19 AM.

[Ark]

I'd like to point out that the studies I've read have been done on children, I'd argue a 186 pound male is going to need a higher dosage. As for the 2800mg comment I made, it was based off a study I think I read a few years ago.

Many of the studies cited in this thread used adults. None of them used 2800mg of BF-7. If you have the study then I'm happy to take a look at it. =)

See all of the studies that rikelme posted.
http://www.longecity...ic/#entry748822
http://www.longecity...ic/#entry748848

I've linked you two free full text studies and a summary article that discusses most of then known BF-7 studies in humans (it has citations at the bottom that you can look up if you so desire). http://www.longecity...e-3#entry751544

Here are two examples of the doses used in studies that included adults. http://www.wholeheal...ht-bombyx-mori/

"Thirty subjects age 60 years and older were divided into two groups. One group received 200 mg of BF-7 twice a day for three weeks while the other group took a placebo."

"In a study published in 2004, researchers divided 98 people between the ages of 19 and 64 into three groups.⁶ One group received 200 mg of BF-7, the second group took 400 mg of BF-7..."

Thanks for the link/info, I'll try and remember where I saw that study later tonight.

[lostfalco]

 

Thanks for the link/info, I'll try and remember where I saw that study later tonight.

 

No problem, Ark. Sounds good. =)

[Ark]

I have found plenty of people claiming to take 2 grams or more daily example http://forums.phoeni...factor-7.40183/ but no luck on the study yet.

[lostfalco]

I have found plenty of people claiming to take 2 grams or more daily example http://forums.phoeni...factor-7.40183/ but no luck on the study yet.

Sorry man, I'm genuinely not trying to be obnoxious. =)

 

That person is taking 2 grams of glycine NOT 2 grams of BF-7. Here's the quote:

 

http://forums.phoeni...83/#post-645433

 

"It looks a little intriguing. What I found interesting is the reference to glycine and alanine. I started taking glycine maybe a year ago or so, because it helps with sleep. Initially it caused a very strong detox reaction for me (it's used in Phase II liver detoxification) but eventually I came to tolerate it and now take 2 grams every night for sleep."

Edited by lostfalco, 17 November 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

I started 200mg twice daily a few days ago and I didn't up the dose to 400mg twice daily yet as I was still looking for safety issue of higher dose. I came across a different preparation of Bombyx mori and I was little confused about difference between Bombyx mori and Brain factor 7. Now I kind of realized brain factor 7 is some of the specific extract of Bombyx mori that targets the brain whereas the other preparation basically act as a vasodilator (to genitals) and androgen

 

http://www.amazon.co...rds=Bombyx mori

 

However, whether brain factor 7 still (or how much it still) contains the vasodilator and androgen I am not sure, but 400mg twice daily (800mg/day) is still within the recommended dose for improving brain function as shown in the previous losfalco's post

 

How to Use Bombyx Mori

The recommended daily intake for Bombyx mori (specifically hydrolyzed silk fibroin) is 200-400 mg twice a day.

 

I didn't feeling any effect from the 200mg twice daily dose. I've just upped my evening dose to 400mg but I still couldn't tell the differences. 

I can attest that this supplier mentioned in the above post has high quality Bombyx Mori extract. It's at least twice as effective than the Swanson brand, IMO.

[Ark]

I have found plenty of people claiming to take 2 grams or more daily example http://forums.phoeni...factor-7.40183/ but no luck on the study yet.

Sorry man, I'm genuinely not trying to be obnoxious. =)

That person is taking 2 grams of glycine NOT 2 grams of BF-7. Here's the quote:

http://forums.phoeni...83/#post-645433

"It looks a little intriguing. What I found interesting is the reference to glycine and alanine. I started taking glycine maybe a year ago or so, because it helps with sleep. Initially it caused a very strong detox reaction for me (it's used in Phase II liver detoxification) but eventually I came to tolerate it and now take 2 grams every night for sleep."

No worries, good catch.

[Ark]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3936179/

[lostfalco]

I can attest that this supplier mentioned in the above post has high quality Bombyx Mori extract. It's at least twice as effective than the Swanson brand, IMO.

 

 

Hey yada, thanks for the info. You've tried them both?

 

They are two totally different products. 

 

This is silkworm. http://www.amazon.co...ds=Bombyx mori 

 

This is silk. http://www.swansonvi...-200-mg-60-caps

 

 

Silkworm Extract

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24578797

 

Toxicol Res. 2013 Dec 31;29(4):263-78. doi: 10.5487/TR.2013.29.4.263.

Evaluation of general toxicity and genotoxicity of the silkworm extract powder.

Heo HS1, Choi JH2, Oh JJ2, Lee WJ2, Kim SS2, Lee DH2, Lee HK2, Song SW2, Kim KH2, Choi YK3, Ryu KS4, Kang BH2.

Author information

Abstract

The silkworm extract powder contain 1-deoxynojirimycin (DNJ), a potent α-glycosidase inhibitor, has therapeutic potency against diabetes mellitus. Therefore, natural products containing DNJ from mulberry leaves and silkworm are consumed as health functional food. The present study was performed to evaluate the safety of the silkworm extract powder, a health food which containing the DNJ. The repeated toxicity studies and gentic toxicity studies of the silkworm extract powder were performed to obtain the data for new functional food approval in MFDS. The safety was evaluated by a single-dose oral toxicity study and a 90 day repeated-dose oral toxicity study in Sprague-Dawley rats. The silkworm extract powder was also evaluated for its mutagenic potential in a battery of genetic toxicity test: in vitro bacterial reverse mutation assay, in vitro chromosomal aberration test, and in vivo mouse bone marrow micronucleus assay. The results of the genetic toxicology assays were negative in all of the assays. The approximate lethal dose in single oral dose toxicity study was considered to be higher than 5000 mg/kg in rats. In the 90 day study, the dose levels were wet at 0, 500, 1000, 2000 mg/kg/day, and 10 animals/sex/dose were treated with oral gavage. The parameters that were monitored were clinical signs, body weights, food and water consumptions, ophthalmic examination, urinalysis, hematology, serum biochemistry, necropsy findings, organ weights, and histopathological examination. No adverse effects were observed after the 90 day administration of the silkworm extract powder. The No-Observed-Adverse-Effect-Level (NOAEL) of silkworm extract powder in the 90 day study was 2000 mg/kg/day in both sexes, and no target organ was identified.

 

 

Silk/BF-7/Fibroin/Silk Peptides

 

http://ocean.kisti.r...1_v19n2_224.pdf

"Especially, brain factor-7 (BF-7), a peptide obtained by enzymatic degra- dation of silk proteins, was found to increase cognitive function in both animal and human (Lee et al., 2005; Kim et al., 2009). "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by lostfalco, 17 November 2015 - 05:11 AM.

[lostfalco]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3936179/

Sorry man, that's silkworm again not silk. 

[Ark]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3936179/

Sorry man, that's silkworm again not silk.

How much silk is in silkworm proper and extracts?

Edited by Ark, 17 November 2015 - 07:41 AM.

[normalizing]

ark, all your posts in here are absolutely stupid. you bring absolutely no value to this thread or any other thread i read your crap in. you are always unsure, always confused talking a lot of crap, acting like some sort of nootropic gangsta' if thats even a term yet. all those dislikes and negative reputation points you got are not from me, and i didnt even bother, when i can say it to your confused trolly face DIRECTLY!  its just quite clear a lot of people here just think you are an idiot thats all. just STOP POSTING HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE or actually continue please, make people laugh at you and give em good time. why bother help an invalid anyway.....

Edited by normalizing, 17 November 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[Ark]

I might be the stupidest person on Longecity that's why I need the knowledge more than most. :-) I'm here to learn the truth and if that takes me hurting my online perceived ego, so be it. Those who don't like what I have to say, instead of following me like a pesky fly, you should just add me to your ignore list. As your personal vendetta vs me is a distraction from the truth.

Back to the topic, cheers and sorry for the side show everyone else.

Edited by Ark, 17 November 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

 

I can attest that this supplier mentioned in the above post has high quality Bombyx Mori extract. It's at least twice as effective than the Swanson brand, IMO.

 

 

Hey yada, thanks for the info. You've tried them both?

 

They are two totally different products. 

 

This is silkworm. http://www.amazon.co...ds=Bombyx mori 

 

This is silk. http://www.swansonvi...-200-mg-60-caps

 

 

Silkworm Extract

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24578797

 

Toxicol Res. 2013 Dec 31;29(4):263-78. doi: 10.5487/TR.2013.29.4.263.

Evaluation of general toxicity and genotoxicity of the silkworm extract powder.

Heo HS1, Choi JH2, Oh JJ2, Lee WJ2, Kim SS2, Lee DH2, Lee HK2, Song SW2, Kim KH2, Choi YK3, Ryu KS4, Kang BH2.

Author information

Abstract

The silkworm extract powder contain 1-deoxynojirimycin (DNJ), a potent α-glycosidase inhibitor, has therapeutic potency against diabetes mellitus. Therefore, natural products containing DNJ from mulberry leaves and silkworm are consumed as health functional food. The present study was performed to evaluate the safety of the silkworm extract powder, a health food which containing the DNJ. The repeated toxicity studies and gentic toxicity studies of the silkworm extract powder were performed to obtain the data for new functional food approval in MFDS. The safety was evaluated by a single-dose oral toxicity study and a 90 day repeated-dose oral toxicity study in Sprague-Dawley rats. The silkworm extract powder was also evaluated for its mutagenic potential in a battery of genetic toxicity test: in vitro bacterial reverse mutation assay, in vitro chromosomal aberration test, and in vivo mouse bone marrow micronucleus assay. The results of the genetic toxicology assays were negative in all of the assays. The approximate lethal dose in single oral dose toxicity study was considered to be higher than 5000 mg/kg in rats. In the 90 day study, the dose levels were wet at 0, 500, 1000, 2000 mg/kg/day, and 10 animals/sex/dose were treated with oral gavage. The parameters that were monitored were clinical signs, body weights, food and water consumptions, ophthalmic examination, urinalysis, hematology, serum biochemistry, necropsy findings, organ weights, and histopathological examination. No adverse effects were observed after the 90 day administration of the silkworm extract powder. The No-Observed-Adverse-Effect-Level (NOAEL) of silkworm extract powder in the 90 day study was 2000 mg/kg/day in both sexes, and no target organ was identified.

 

 

Silk/BF-7/Fibroin/Silk Peptides

 

http://ocean.kisti.r...1_v19n2_224.pdf

"Especially, brain factor-7 (BF-7), a peptide obtained by enzymatic degra- dation of silk proteins, was found to increase cognitive function in both animal and human (Lee et al., 2005; Kim et al., 2009). "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no silk in silkworm extract? It would seem intuitively obvious that there would be, no?

[Ark]

Kill yourself normalizing or at least alt f4 after deleting your account you slimy little putz. Those in glass houses... Well you know the rest.

Just ignore him Ark, I like your comments.

Thanks, he's a plonker anyways.

Edited by Ark, 18 November 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[normalizing]

dracula only encourages this flammer for his trolly enjoyment on the forum. sad

[Dracula]

Back to the topic, i just snorted 100mg of bk7 and it feels amazing.

 

The original parisian snuff was in fact 2/3 silkdust, 1/3 cocaine. So here is the secret for you all, the brain only assimilates the peptide through insufflation.

 

 

Thank me later.

Edited by Dracula, 19 November 2015 - 10:29 AM.