383 replies to this topic

[stevegperry]

Hello LongeCity,

 

I am patient zero for exogenous GDF11 supplementation.  Note that I am a software developer, not a molecular biologist nor an MD.  Needless to say, I have always been a believer in the programmatic theory of aging.

 

Attached is my GDF11 study as well as some backup data.  I look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

 

Steve

 

P.S.  Could not attach the zip file with biomarkers mentioned in this paper since it is 6 meg - you have a 2 meg limit.  Email me at the address at the end of the paper if you would like to see these and I'll send them to you.

 

 

Attached Files

•  Results of my 1.5 years of injecting exogenous GDF11.docx   22.74KB   864 downloads

[Nattzor]

Do you have any proof that it was actually GDF-11 or did you just blindly trust the seller?

[resveratrol_guy]

This is an outstanding contribution, although next time you undertake such a risky microtrial, you might want to seek advice on best practices here on Longecity before starting.

 

So, where did you acquire your GDF11? Does it require refrigeration or any special preservation techniques? How, exactly, do you prepare and inject it?

 

Personally, I would suggest that you have a full body MRI series just to check for asymptomatic tumors, because after all, you're promoting growth here. Not that I have any reason to expect any. Preliminarily, I think you have a compelling scientific case for this stuff, when I look at the various metrics in your document.

[stevegperry]

Send me your email and I'll send you the procurement, mixing and injection instructions.  GDF11 is a big molecule, 41k Daltons, and very stable.  I've been camping with it for five days at a time in 90 degree heat and it still works great.

[pleiotropic]

Can you post a copy of independent chemical analysis of your GDF11 supplies to verify this is real?  Establishing supplies and materials are correct in scientific experiment is a necessary part.

 

[Nattzor]

Can you post a copy of independent chemical analysis of your GDF11 supplies to verify this is real?  Establishing supplies and materials are correct in scientific experiment is a necessary part.

 

Yeah, this was what I was getting at. For all we know it might have been a sketchy lab in China (kinda like BBB got scammed with the NMR, got a pure sample first and then shit and well, tons of people who has ordered from labs in China).

[turchin]

Glory to the heroes! People, who experiment on themselves, like Liz Parrish and this guy, basically overcome the ban on human experiments and are on frontier of aging research.They will help us to solve aging much earlier.

Edited by turchin, 21 November 2015 - 06:08 PM.

[Kalliste]

Good luck. Keep in mind that if you develop a health problem related (or unrelated) to this that might impact the way insurance covers it. It's too late for you but this might be worth keeping in mind for others.

[resveratrol_guy]

Hang on a sec. If this stuff was fake, then I definitely want to know what it was. I don't care if it was isoburgerol*. What matters is that stevegperry's data looks rather impressive, given that his default behavior should have been 18 months of aging, which at his stated age should have made a clear impact on his measurements. Instead, they went the other way.

 

Yeah, we need to test this stuff. As it happens, I'm already working with a lab who does MS combined with HPLC for some other mad science I'm doing. I might be able to assist. But first, I'd like to get other people's opinions on the probability that his results occurred by chance, or in response to unremarkable dietary or exercise variances. Because if they aren't remarkable, then we can politely close this thread.

 

*The stuff in cheese burgers that causes idiopathic rejuvenation.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 22 November 2015 - 02:43 AM.

[stevegperry]

Hello All,

 

There were a few posts with concerns about the quality of GDF11 that I injected.  My GDF11 was ordered from Peprotech (see link below) - this lab has a solid reputation and I trust that their GDF11 is 98% pure as per their GDF11 description page.  Yes, it should be tested for purity, but there is no easy way to do this right now since the GDF11 assays pick up GDF8 (myostatin) as well as immunoglobin.  Hopefully this will change soon.

 

Also, with when taking GDF11, one of the easiest ways to know that it is working is that you have sharp vision/red lights (as per my paper), in the late afternoon.  If you stop taking GDF11, this effect will disappear in a couple of days.  I've also had four batches of GDF11 made by Peprotech and they all had the same results.  So odds are, Peprotech's GDF11 is the real deal.

 

I have procuring, mixing and injecting instructions in a Word document, but your site doesn't appear to allow attachments, so I pasted the content of the Word document below.  Excuse the formatting.

 

I look forward to hearing some first hand accounts of GDF11 supplementation, and PLEASE take a good set of biomarkers pre and post (after 3 months) GDF11.

 

Tnx.

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 Procuring, Mixing and Injecting GDF11

 

1 )Risk – There is still considerable risk in taking GDF11.  Only one person (me) has tested it and then there is still plenty that can go wrong at this point.  If you are not willing to accept the risk of GDF11, then stick to telomerase activation.

 

2) Talk to your doctor about taking GDF11.  An outside opinion for injecting something this powerful is a good idea.

 

3) Before you start on GDF11, please have all your biomarkers done.  The biomarkers mentioned in my paper are a good start.  We need to get as much data as possible on human use of GDF11 and this will benefit us all.  If you feel comfortable, please send me your biomarkers and I will put them in my database.  I will then write a bunch of reports displaying and correlating all the biomarker data I receive. After 3 months, repeat the same set of biomarkers and send them to me for analysis.

 

4)      I buy my GDF11 from Peprotech:

 

 https://www.peprotec...n_GDF-11/120-11

 

5) You can start with one 5 ug vial GDF11 for $80.  Note that their GDF11 is for “research purposes” only. If you say it for human trials, they will not sell it to you. They also will not sell to individuals.  You need to give them the name and address of your medical practice, scientific institution, etc.

 

6) The stated purity of Peprotech’s GDF11 is 98%.  I’m sure we can do better and am open to suggestions as how to commission a lab to make a purer version.

 

7)      Once you have your GDF11, you need to mix it into a 10 ml bottle with 4 ccs of bacteriostatic water.  Here are links for the bottles and the water:

http://www.amazon.co...a/dp/B006TNFSX6

http://www.mountains...ater-30-ml.html

 

8)      To mix up the GDF11, use a 1 cc syringe to pull 4 ccs out of the bacteriostatic water bottle and put it in a sterile 10 ml bottle.

9)      Then take .75 ccs out of the sterile 10 ml vile and place it in the 5 ug GDF11 plastic vile.  Rotate slowly and carefully to mix it up.  Note that it looks like there is nothing in the GDF11 plastic vile, since 5 ug is a very, very small amount.

10)   Use the 1 cc syringe to take the mixed .75 ccs out of the GDF11 plastic vile and inject back into the sterile 10 ml bottle.

11)   Repeat the above two steps at least twice to make sure you get most of the lyophilized GDF11 out of the vial.

12)   Now the sterile 10 ml bottle contains ready to inject liquid mixture of GDF11.  GDF11 is very resilient, but you should keep it in the fridge (not the freezer).

13)   I use .3 cc insulin needles to inject the GDF11 subcutaneously.  If you followed the above instructions, each unit on the insulin needle equates to .0125 ug of GDF11.

14)   As I said in the paper, I recommend you start with .05 ug of GDF11 every day.  Which is 4 units on the insulin needle.

15)   As it says in the paper, you may experience GDF11 side effects of dyspnea or GERD.  If you do get these side effects, skip a few days and cut the dose.  I also recommend tracking your doses and a couple of simple biomarkers (BP, weight, etc.) in a Google docs spreadsheet.

16)   Feel free to keep me up to date on your progress, and of course your biomarkers, by emailing me at steve@stevegperry.com

 

 

[resveratrol_guy]

Thanks for that. So if we inject it subcutaneously, does the site matter? I mean, if I always inject it into my left arm, will my left arm experience asymmetric rejuvenation relative to my right arm? Or is GDF11 so slow acting that it doesn't matter? For that matter, do you have a preferred injection site?

 

BTW this paper suggests that more GDF11 implies decreased neurogenesis, at least in the olfactory epithelium. And this one says: "These data demonstrate GDF11 to be a master regulator of neural stem cell transcription that can suppress cell proliferation and migration by regulating the expression of numerous genes involved in both these processes, and by suppressing transcriptional responses to factors that normally promote proliferation and/or migration." At best, this paper indicates that GDF11 might push immediate neural precursor cells to become glial cells (microglia?) instead of neurons, which would be good for removing junk protein from the brain, which is arguably more important than facilitating neurogenesis, but IMO not as desirable as upregulating both processes. Were you aware of this tradeoff? What's your opinion, particularly in light of your own experience on data? I know you said that your sense of smell improved, which is inconsistent with this research.

[sthira]

Is anyone else unable to download the document?

[phix]

Is anyone else unable to download the document?

 

I have just downloaded it and it worked fine. 

[thomasanderson2]

This is absolutely fascinating...

I'm no expert, but this is probably the most compelling and persuasive (and credible) evidence I've ever seen of effective anti-aging in a human being.

That said, I did some cursory searching and I'm seeing a good deal of controversy - in materials released AFTER stevegperry started his trial - (but BEFORE his now-and-here published results) that call the basic premise of GDF-11 decline with aging into question. Basically, a subsequent study indicated that levels actually increase with age (and then authors of the first study proposed some explanations to reconcile that were not completely satisfactory).  

http://news.sciencem...enating-protein

 

And in one of the comments I saw this (which I guess I'm interpreting to mean that the GDF-11 is activating TERT somehow)

I agree red tape is making science far too slow in making progress. I think a big player are Telomeres which are being lengthened by blood factors and this is a reason we are seeing rejuvenation of cells and tissues. A 2009 study showed Androgens activate TERT in bone marrow stem cells and there is every reason to suspect that other factors are doing similar to other cell types. Ergo there are two approaches 1: Use Plasma to rejuvenate the body via HPE transfer or 2: Gene therapy or small molecules to activate TERT. Both will lengthen Telomeres which in turn will mean younger gene expression and reversal of aging and restoration of function as seen in various studies in animals and human cells.

 

This article essentially covers the same material as the first

http://news.sciencem...enating-protein

 

Edited by thomasanderson2, 23 November 2015 - 04:42 AM.

[platypus]

This is great! Is there any way we can crowd-fund animal studies or even human experimentation with GDF-11? 

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Sounds interesting, but due to getting disappointed by big claims too much I think we need someone else to try this on themselves, preferably someone with a high post count--for science!

[thomasanderson2]

Bump...Curious as to where all the forum authorities are on this topic.

 

Are folks seeing the attachment? The objective, data-supported results? The subjective results?

There is a substantial and comprehensive range of benefits being demonstrated for muscle, cardiovascular, cognition, vision, etc.

 

Personally, before I'll try something, I usually lurk around until I've seen other corroborating reports from a variety of sources -

But the *extraordinary and unequivocal* results here,

particularly with what is an endogenous substance (albeit being used at higher amounts), without serious reported side effects, 

leaves me thinking that the potential benefits substantially outweigh the potential (unknown) risks.

 

Anyone else as excited about this as I am?

 

 

Edited by thomasanderson2, 25 November 2015 - 12:29 AM.

[stevegperry]

Hello All,

 

Will try to answer most of the questions above.

 

As far as injecting GDF11, I inject it subcutaneously in my stomach, but I'm sure anywhere that is comfortable for you would work fine.

 

Regarding that study said GDF11 increase rather than decline with age, that was recently refuted by Amy Wagers in the Science Magazine article:

 

http://news.sciencem...ard-team-claims

 

As I have mentioned before, the assays for GDF11 are not refined at this point and often measure both myostatin and immunoglobin as well.

 

As far as the paper suggesting that more GDF11 implies decreased neurogenesis, at least in the olfactory epithelium, here is the section of the paper that explains GDF11's

role in the OE:

 

Data from in vitro experiments suggest that GDF11 may induce cell cycle arrest of INPs (immediate neuronal precursors ) by increasing the expression of the cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitor, p27^Kip1(Figure 5).

 

INPs immediate neuronal precursors  function as transit-amplifying cells in the ORN ( olfactory receptor neuron) lineage, proliferating in response to extrinsic cues but remaining committed to a neuronal (ORN-- olfactory receptor neuron) fate (DeHamer et al., 1994).

 

In vivo, death of ORNs ( olfactory receptor neuron) provides such a cue, causing INP proliferation to increase rapidly and remain elevated until neuron number is restored (reviewed in Calof et al., 1996a). 

Thus, in the OE olfactory epithelium, as in many regenerating tissues, transit-amplifying cells, by rapidly altering their proliferation in response to extrinsic cues, provide the capacity for rapid changes in the sizes of differentiated cell populations in response to changing environmental demands Hall and Watt 1989 and Potten and Loeffler 1990. 

 

By inducing a reversible state of growth inhibition, GDF11 may play an important role in maintaining the INP (immediate neuronal precursors ) population in an appropriate state to respond rapidly….and PROPERLY … (my addition)  to environmental signals.

 

So as far as the olfactory epithelium goes, GDF11 appears to maintain key ratios of olfactory receptors to their precursors. Increasing GDF11 levels changes this ratio, creating more olfactory receptors from their precursors and therefore increasing sense of smell.

 

 

 

[stevegperry]

Hello Longecity,

 

Can any of you help me with GDF11 dosing?  I currently take .01 ug/day and even that may be too much.  If someone could obtain GDF11 levels in humans by age (the data does exist somewhere, probably at the Harvard Stem Cell Institute) this would be very helpful in determining the right dose.  The only piece of data I have on GDF11 levels is from A GRG post that quoted a study on diabetes that referenced GDF11 levels.

 

The study said that the control group (no age given) had GDF11 levels if 168 pg/ml.  Assuming the average human has  5 liters of blood, that would equate to 5000 *168 pg = 840 ng = .84 ug of circulating GDF11 in the average person.  My dose of .01 ug/day, would represent about 1.2% of my circulating GDF11, which sounds high.

 

Though if you assume one ages 1%/year and then my GDF11 levels are down 40% since my peak at age 18.  This needs to be factored into the dose also and may justify a higher dose in the beginning.

 

Anyway, any useful data on GDF11 levels by age, how to impute dosage, etc.,would be appreciated.

 

Tnx

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Nuke]

Why not contact the person who is working on it herself? http://hsci.harvard..../amy-wagers-phd

 

I'll keep a close eye on this, even though I think I'm still to young to really see an effect.

 

Btw have you had a look at GHK and Epithalamin(or it's synthetic fragment Epitalon)? It may have a synergetic effect.

[resveratrol_guy]

As far as the paper suggesting that more GDF11 implies decreased neurogenesis, at least in the olfactory epithelium, here is the section of the paper that explains GDF11's

role in the OE:

 

Data from in vitro experiments suggest that GDF11 may induce cell cycle arrest of INPs (immediate neuronal precursors ) by increasing the expression of the cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitor, p27^Kip1(Figure 5).

 

INPs immediate neuronal precursors  function as transit-amplifying cells in the ORN ( olfactory receptor neuron) lineage, proliferating in response to extrinsic cues but remaining committed to a neuronal (ORN-- olfactory receptor neuron) fate (DeHamer et al., 1994).

 

In vivo, death of ORNs ( olfactory receptor neuron) provides such a cue, causing INP proliferation to increase rapidly and remain elevated until neuron number is restored (reviewed in Calof et al., 1996a). 

Thus, in the OE olfactory epithelium, as in many regenerating tissues, transit-amplifying cells, by rapidly altering their proliferation in response to extrinsic cues, provide the capacity for rapid changes in the sizes of differentiated cell populations in response to changing environmental demands Hall and Watt 1989 and Potten and Loeffler 1990. 

 

By inducing a reversible state of growth inhibition, GDF11 may play an important role in maintaining the INP (immediate neuronal precursors ) population in an appropriate state to respond rapidly….and PROPERLY … (my addition)  to environmental signals.

 

So as far as the olfactory epithelium goes, GDF11 appears to maintain key ratios of olfactory receptors to their precursors. Increasing GDF11 levels changes this ratio, creating more olfactory receptors from their precursors and therefore increasing sense of smell.

 

I think I get it. What you're saying is that GDF11 modulates INP differentiation in response to ORN loss in order to make it more consistent with a youthful olfactory system. In other words, it's facilitating an appropriate olfactory healing response, as opposed to the de facto growth which would happen with nerve growth factor, for instance. So if this concept extends to other stem cell populations, then GDF11 starts to look like a sort of stem cell master regulator, analogous to leptin in sugar metabolism; it would go a long way toward calming fears about sufficient healing vs. excessive growth. Very cool.
 

[Bluecheer]

Thoughts on the effects of young & healthy individual's. If anybody has any links to them experimenting on healthy mice, please link.

Thank you for sharing Steve.

 

Thoughts on the effects of young & healthy individual's. If anybody has any links to them experimenting on healthy mice, please link.

Thank you for sharing Steve.

 

[stevegperry]

Nike wrote "Why not contact the person who is working on it herself? http://hsci.harvard..../amy-wagers-phd"  I emailed Amy Wagers 6 months ago about my GDF11 human trial and never heard back from her.  You'd think she'd be very curious to hear about my GDF11 results and dosing strategies.  If any of you can introduce me to Amy, please do so.  Thanks.

 

Steve

[Keizo]

Interesting! Off topic but I suspect there are many underground testing facilities in the third world, where "questionable science" is being performed to give drug companies a hint at what drugs to invest in through normal channels. I mean imagine what one could do with a few bribes, poor people looking to make some money, some guns, and some scientists out in the jungle. (Or at least this would make for an interesting novel/movie.)

Edited by Keizo, 01 December 2015 - 03:52 PM.

[stevegperry]

Keizo,

 

That's pretty funny, though I don't think we need to test GDF11 in third world countries.  It's endogenous and safe even in high doses.  A few people are trying it right now and we should have more data in a few months.  Stay tuned.

 

Steve

[sub7]

Steve,

 

Thank you very much for this discussion and the excellent experiment. A few questions:

Can you elaborate a bit about the pharmaco-dynamics of exogenous GDF11? What is the half life; are the metabolites also active; and very importantly, is there a negative feedback loop that may result in down-regulation of endogenous production when you inject the substance?

 

Is frequent blood donation something worth considering for those who cannot utilize exogenous GDF11? The idea was that when new blood is produced after donating blood, the new one has a richer mixture of substances promoting tissue regeneration. I don't know if anyone specifically tried to see if serum concentrations of GDF11 goes up after donating blood though.

 

Finally, I guess you think that the overall risk is fairly low, which is at least what I gather from reading the attached word document. Can you elaborate a bit on this please if you don't mind? Is GDF11 something that can promote the growth of cancerous tissue? Is it something that we see in higher concentrations in cancerous tissues? If not cancer, what other potential problems come to mind, and please share of there are any precautions that can be taken to prevent them.

 

Finally, you have mentioned in the word document that GDF11 may not be enough to fully halt the aging process and that other hormones such as GH, Thyroid and LH/FSH may be needed to be replaced/restored to youthful levels. Luckily all of those hormones or their mimetics are available as endogenous substances. (in the case of LH, at least one can inject testosterone or use HCG as a LH mimetic). Will you be adding these to your regimen?

[kmoody]

Interesting report Steve. Thank you for sharing. Had a few questions/thoughts/etc. for you.

 

1. What evidence do you have that your injections actually boost your GDF11 levels? The value of your case study would be much higher if you demonstrated that administration of the compound led to a detectable increase in GDF11 concentration to youthful levels.

 

2. What information is in the literature or in any results you obtained regarding the plasma half-life and bio-availability from sub Q administration? Dosing has less to do with physiological levels and more to do with plasma half-life.

 

3. I have asked Pepro-Tech to provide me with their QC data on this. Did you get any? If not, at the very least you should ask for CoA on all future purchases.

 

4. Do you have a clear experimental design established for you and the others who are working with you on this project? It would be wise to standardize your design (metrics gathered before, during, and after dosing, method and concentration of dosing, preps and QC on product, etc) and do random assignment. If you had strong evidence from a small sample, in conjunction with addressing points 1-3, that could make this a much more powerful exercise.

 

Feel free to PM if I can be of help regarding any of the above. My lab may be able to perform limited pro bono testing/consulting in an exclusively educational capacity.

[kmoody]

Prepro-Tech got back to me -- QC includes quantification by A280, LAL endotoxin, N-terminal sequencing, HPLC, mass spec, and activity assay. They do not have plans for releasing GDF11 under GMP though they do have other products that will be released under this standard.

 

This is quite a bit more QC than I usually see for research grade products.

Edited by kmoody, 03 December 2015 - 08:20 PM.

[platypus]

Don't all growth factors (GH, IGF-1 etc.) "promote cancer" at some level? Still, youthful organisms with high levels of these factors rarely develop cancer. Is this really a big concern as far as rejuvenation is concerned?

[SarahB12]

Steve,

So I wonder, if you quit taking it, would the aging accelerate, or would the gains made be a permanent delta, aging at the normal rate?

Steve,

So I wonder, if you quit taking it, would the aging accelerate, or would the gains made be a permanent delta, aging at the normal rate?