384 replies to this topic

[sub7]

 

Can any of you help me with GDF11 dosing?  I currently take .01 ug/day and even that may be too much. 

 

You mentioned that taking too much would result in discomfort, such as shortness of breath. Would it also lead to physiological problems that one cannot "feel". If not, then why not err on the side of too much and not worry about taking more than necessary, as long as there is no discomfort of any kind?

 

Also, can one go and get his blood levels of GDF11 tested anywhere? Never heard of such a test on any blood panel...

[Mind]

Don't all growth factors (GH, IGF-1 etc.) "promote cancer" at some level? Still, youthful organisms with high levels of these factors rarely develop cancer. Is this really a big concern as far as rejuvenation is concerned?

 

From what I have casually read over the course of the last few years, a very general opinion is that any substance/theraputic that is good for your regular cells will be good for (or "promote") cancer cells. If you don't have cancer or if you have good cancer suppression (genetically-speaking), then perhaps it doesn't matter as much.

 

There are certainly A LOT of people around the world taking hormone therapy. If there was a strong cancer connection, I would think we would know about it by now.

[stevegperry]

Hello Longecity,

 

Sorry for the delayed response - I have been inundated with GDF11 emails!  Here are some answers to two of the questions above.

 

Can you elaborate a bit about the pharmaco-dynamics of exogenous GDF11? What is the half life; are the metabolites also active; and very importantly, is there a negative feedback loop that may result in down-regulation of endogenous production when you inject the substance?

 

I can't tell you anything about GDF11's half life. These three links pretty much sum up everything I know:

 

http://www.phosphosi...owAllSites=true

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDF11

https://peprotech.co...n_GDF-11/120-11

 

As for half life, I can tell you from experience that GDF11 is a very resilient molecule. I know from leaving it in a hot tent for 5 days, it still works fine.  And one vial of it has lasted me for months. As per my paper, I know GDF11 is working from the very sharp vision I experience in the afternoon.  Of course, it's half life in the blood could be different.  When we have some decent assays for GDF11, we can probably answer these questions better.  But right now, the assays are weak: http://news.sciencem...ard-team-claims

 

As for a negative feedback loop, I doubt there is one.  When one goes into an "overdose state" e.g., GERD, it can take days to go away.  Also, I don't believe anyone even knows where GDF11 is made (chime in if you do!), but a couple of papers have theorized that it's made in the blood.

 

 

Finally, I guess you think that the overall risk is fairly low, which is at least what I gather from reading the attached word document. Can you elaborate a bit on this please if you don't mind? Is GDF11 something that can promote the growth of cancerous tissue? Is it something that we see in higher concentrations in cancerous tissues? If not cancer, what other potential problems come to mind, and please share of there are any precautions that can be taken to prevent them.

 

I believe the risk of GDF11 is fairly low because it is an endogenous peptide.  And my dose now, .01 ug/day is extremely low.  On the other hand, circulating levels of GDF11, which are in the neighborhood of 1 ug, are very low also.  Once again, if we had a good GDF11 assay, we could take blood samples from humans of various ages/weights and impute a proper dose.

 

The other reason I believe the risk is low is that I started out with relatively high doses of 50 ug.  I felt fine for a few days, probably because I was in a deficit position of GDF11, but once the "tank was full", I got the side effects of GERD and dyspnea.  I was initially taking 5000 times the dose I am taking now and am still here to talk about it.  Of course, you all get the benefit of patient zero's work and you don't have to go through what I did.  I would start with .05/day ug to "fill the tank" and then work your way down to .01 ug/day.

 

More later...

 

 

[stevegperry]

Here are a couple more replies to the posts above.

 

From what I have casually read over the course of the last few years, a very general opinion is that any substance/therapeutic that is good for your regular cells will be good for (or "promote") cancer cells. If you don't have cancer or if you have good cancer suppression (genetically-speaking), then perhaps it doesn't matter as much.

 

There are certainly A LOT of people around the world taking hormone therapy. If there was a strong cancer connection, I would think we would know about it by now.

 

Whenever a new anti aging therapy becomes available, the "C" word is invariably bandied about.  There are many causes of cancer, but many believe most are caused by decreased immune surveillance as we age.  Note that cancer rates by age (see seer.cancer.gov/faststats/selections.php?series=age) pretty much mirror immune competency by age (see http://www.immunitya...content/7/1/4).

 

As far as GDF11 and cancer goes, I believe it will reduce cancer rates in the long run.  If you are of the school of thought that many cancers begin in the stem cells, keeping these stem cell populations healthy and repaired by GDF11 is most likely a good strategy.  For example, chronic lymphocyte leukemia (CLL) is thought to arise from DNA damage to the hematopoietic cells.  Perhaps GDF11 could be a viable treatment for CLL?  Anyone care to comment on this?  I have a friend who has CLL and it is quite debilitating.  

 

I wonder, if you quit taking it, would the aging accelerate, or would the gains made be a permanent delta, aging at the normal rate?

 

That's a good question and we need a lot more data before it can be answered. As for myself, I have gone off GDF11 for a couple of weeks and some of the more observable positive effects, e.g., sharp vision/red lights, do disappear in a few days.  My stamina appeared to hold up though.  Also, if you look at GDF11's effect on the olfactory epithelium, GDF11's effects there appear reversible since it regulates the ratio between progenitor cells and actual olfactory neurons.   According to Wager's paper, the mechanism of action of GDF11 on satellite cells is DNA repair and one would think this would be more permanent.

 

You have mentioned in the word document that GDF11 may not be enough to fully halt the aging process and that other hormones such as GH, Thyroid and LH/FSH may be needed to be replaced/restored to youthful levels. Luckily all of those hormones or their mimetics are available as endogenous substances. (in the case of LH, at least one can inject testosterone or use HCG as a LH mimetic). Will you be adding these to your regimen?

 

I have been on GH for at least 20 years and on injectable testosterone for 10 years. When I started taking GDF11, I went off of everything since I didn't want any other hormone clouding the results.  Unfortunately, my IGF-1 and free testosterone levels fell to that of a normal 57 year old. And my body fat started to go up a bit. So I resumed my GH/testosterone regimen alongside my GDF11 supplementation, and now I'm in decent shape...

 

You mentioned that taking too much would result in discomfort, such as shortness of breath. Would it also lead to physiological problems that one cannot "feel". If not, then why not err on the side of too much and not worry about taking more than necessary, as long as there is no discomfort of any kind? Also, can one go and get his blood levels of GDF11 tested anywhere? Never heard of such a test on any blood panel...

 

My dosing strategy has always been to drop the dose to the point where no side effects are felt.  Excess GDF11 surely binds to GDF8 (myostatin) sites and wreaks other havoc.  That's why I recommend one start with a low dose of .05 ug/day to "fill the tank" and then drop it to a .01 ug/day maintenance dose.

 

As far as testing GDF11 levels, the assays for GDF11 are not ready for prime time and give bad results due to also measuring GDF8 levels.  A couple of labs have offered to help with this, so stay tuned.

 

 

[resveratrol_guy]

Why do you say that it was unfortunate that your IGF1 level fell? Do you suppose this was a result of the GDF11, or simply because you stopped taking your GH and testosterone? I would think, especially at your age, that you'd want as little carcinogenic IGF1 floating around as possible, no?

[sub7]

"My dosing strategy has always been to drop the dose to the point where no side effects are felt.  Excess GDF11 surely binds to GDF8 (myostatin) sites and wreaks other havoc.  That's why I recommend one start with a low dose of .05 ug/day to "fill the tank" and then drop it to a .01 ug/day maintenance dose."

 

Now this here may hold crucial clues.

You have mentioned that you put on muscle mass (and a not-so-insignificant amount too; 5 lbs if I recall right from your word document) during the experiment. Here are the possible ways this could have happened

 

1- GDF11 is not binding to Mysotatin sites at any appreciable degree at these doses. If it were, Myostatin activation would have reduced muscle mass

 

2- GDF is, to some extent bindind to Myostatin sites, but the other effects you mentioned that are pro-muscle-growth are way greater and the net effect is an increase of muscle mass.

 

As we know, Myostatin is a very key determinant of muscle mass carried in the body and hence, both scenarios are possibly true to some extent (they are nor mutually exclusive, of course). This gives me hope that the potential Myostatin-related side effects may not be as big of an issue and, if for whatever reason, the dose needs to be higher, one can cautiously experiment with higher dosages. Your doses seem to be quite safe, at least from a Myostatin perspective IMO.

 

Two questions:

You have mentioned that GDF11 is a stable molecule. Do you have any guess as to how long it will last after being reconstituted? If one were to prepare a solution and keep it in the fridge for months on end, would it still be good?

 

Have you noticed any subjective effects on joints, as in joint pain, stability, discomfort (my expectation would be a decrease in joint issues btw)

 

Many many thanks Good Sir

Your experiment is immensely valuable.

 

 

[platypus]

 

I have been on GH for at least 20 years and on injectable testosterone for 10 years. When I started taking GDF11, I went off of everything since I didn't want any other hormone clouding the results.  Unfortunately, my IGF-1 and free testosterone levels fell to that of a normal 57 year old. And my body fat started to go up a bit. So I resumed my GH/testosterone regimen alongside my GDF11 supplementation, and now I'm in decent shape...

 

It's perhaps off-topic for this thread but I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with hormone replacement therapy. What benefits did you feel you received from the HGH - starting supplementing it already at 37 seems quite early to me. 

[sub7]

 

 

I have been on GH for at least 20 years and on injectable testosterone for 10 years. When I started taking GDF11, I went off of everything since I didn't want any other hormone clouding the results.  Unfortunately, my IGF-1 and free testosterone levels fell to that of a normal 57 year old. And my body fat started to go up a bit. So I resumed my GH/testosterone regimen alongside my GDF11 supplementation, and now I'm in decent shape...

 

It's perhaps off-topic for this thread but I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with hormone replacement therapy. What benefits did you feel you received from the HGH - starting supplementing it already at 37 seems quite early to me. 

 

 

I was wondering about the same as well, but my angle is a little different. Without diluting the thread, let me ask this quickly:

GH may be pro or anti-aging depending on the dose and the associated rise in IGF levels IMHO. You, being a very meticulous learner,  surely have considered the pros and cons and adjusted the dose accordingly. Assuming that you are using GH for anti-aging purposes, as opposed to maximizing muscle mass and minimizing fat mass, what dose do you think optimal for this purpose?

 

Thanks
 

[nowayout]

Not trying to be dismissive, but I don't really see anything objectively unambiguous by skimming the Word document you attached.  With a skeptical reading:

• 5 lbs is about my daily variation in water (and possibly bowel context) weight; for an adult male I would consider this noise, not signal.  Also, you say you didn't change exercise regimen, but then you also say that you increased hiking expeditions, which is contradictory.  As well, 5 lbs is well within the error range for most experimental methods of estimating lean weight, especially those you can do at home. 
• Reaction time test changes could have been simply due to having had a bad day one time, a good day another time, less or more caffeine, sleep quality the previous night, time of day, becoming more physically fit from the extra hiking (physical fitness improves neuro-health), etc.
• Impressions of skin and hair condition is subjective and dependent on hydration, recent light exposure, lighting conditions, etc. 
• Impression of gray hair number is subjective and commonly mis-estimated without photographic evidence and hair counts. 
• Some decrease in myopia is common in middle age as presbyopia (age related farsightedness) increases - it could unfortunately be a result of aging, not "youthifying." 
• Endurance increase was possibly simply the result of hiking more, not a cause of hiking more. 
• The red light effect is abnormal and therefore just worrying. 
• Also consider that after 18 months you are now in the opposite season from where you started, which can affect weight, hair, skin, and even color perception (here in the Northeast colors definitely appear much brighter this time of year, probably due to a combination of the cold clean air, different light frequencies scattered by the fall/winter sky, and grey background).

Having said this, I am glad you are posting perceived results.  Most people don't.  I certainly hope these effects do turn out to be unambiguous with further use.  

Edited by nowayout, 07 December 2015 - 08:45 PM.

[sub7]

Not trying to be dismissive, but I don't really see anything objectively unambiguous by skimming the Word document you attached.  With a skeptical reading:

• 5 lbs is about my daily variation in water (and possibly bowel context) weight; for an adult male I would consider this noise, not signal.  Also, you say you didn't change exercise regimen, but then you also say that you increased hiking expeditions, which is contradictory.  As well, 5 lbs is well within the error range for most experimental methods of estimating lean weight, especially those you can do at home. 
• Reaction time test changes could have been simply due to having had a bad day one time, a good day another time, less or more caffeine, sleep quality the previous night, time of day, becoming more physically fit from the extra hiking (physical fitness improves neuro-health), etc.
• Impressions of skin and hair condition is subjective and dependent on hydration, recent light exposure, lighting conditions, etc. 
• Impression of gray hair number is subjective and commonly mis-estimated without photographic evidence and hair counts. 
• Some decrease in myopia is common in middle age as presbyopia (age related farsightedness) increases - it could unfortunately be a result of aging, not "youthifying." 
• Endurance increase was possibly simply the result of hiking more, not a cause of hiking more. 
• The red light effect is abnormal and therefore just worrying. 
• Also consider that after 18 months you are now in the opposite season from where you started, which can affect weight, hair, skin, and even color perception (here in the Northeast colors definitely appear much brighter this time of year, probably due to a combination of the cold clean air, different light frequencies scattered by the fall/winter sky, and grey background).

Having said this, I am glad you are posting perceived results.  Most people don't.  I certainly hope these effects do turn out to be unambiguous with further use.  

 

You mention that you don't see anything objectively unambiguous, but then go on to list only the items in the word document, which have some degree of potential subjectivity, leaving out the other mentions in the document that are quantitative measurements.

 

As far as your other comments above:

 

5lbs is surely not "about your daily variation in water". On some unusual days one can swing 5 lbs in water compared to the prior day, but this is highly abnormal. While at-home body composition measurement is not ideal, such a machine showing 5 lbs of muscle accretion at that age is surely noteworthy.

 

As far as hiking/endurance connection: C'mon now. If someone tells you that he is able to hike more because he has more endurance, will you immediately turn it into a chicken-egg dilemma? An individual who is engaged in an activity such as hiking for while can surely tell the direction of causality here. Want placebo controlled double blinds for something so simple too?

 

If we went over published scientific papers with this degree of skepticism, many many of them would not qualify as properly conducted. I do not know the thread starter personally and wasn't there with him of course, but this is about as excellent an analysis as one can possibly conduct with n=1. If one will demand the degree of irrefutable evidence you desire to find, one should absolutely stay away from every post in this forum that is not a copy/past or link to a study text.

[stevegperry]

Not trying to be dismissive, but I don't really see anything objectively unambiguous by skimming the Word document you attached.  With a skeptical reading:

• 5 lbs is about my daily variation in water (and possibly bowel context) weight; for an adult male I would consider this noise, not signal.  Also, you say you didn't change exercise regimen, but then you also say that you increased hiking expeditions, which is contradictory.  As well, 5 lbs is well within the error range for most experimental methods of estimating lean weight, especially those you can do at home. 

The main problem here is that you don't have my zip file with all my biomarker data in it.  Unfortunately, it's 6 mb, and this forum has a maximum of 2 mb for attachments.  If you send me your email to steve@stevegperry.com, I can send it to you.

In this zip file, there are two printouts from a very accurate InBody scale that show a 5 lb increase in lean body mass.  And to be subjective here, I've been told by many people that I have bulked up on GDF11.

• Reaction time test changes could have been simply due to having had a bad day one time, a good day another time, less or more caffeine, sleep quality the previous night, time of day, becoming more physically fit from the extra hiking (physical fitness improves neuro-health), etc.

Once again, you need to look at the CNS Vital signs PDFs in the zip file.  I have taken this test many times, and until GDF11, I always scored in the bottom 10th percentile.  So moving up to the 37th percentile is quite a feat in my book.

• Impressions of skin and hair condition is subjective and dependent on hydration, recent light exposure, lighting conditions, etc. 

Once again, the zip file shows data from this cutometer, which is very accurate: http://www.courage-k...c/140-cutometer

 

• Impression of gray hair number is subjective and commonly mis-estimated without photographic evidence and hair counts. 

Agreed.  

 

Some decrease in myopia is common in middle age as presbyopia (age related farsightedness) increases - it could unfortunately be a result of aging, not "youthifying." 

 

True.  And that's why the paper says that it may not be due to GDF11.

• Endurance increase was possibly simply the result of hiking more, not a cause of hiking more. 

Disagree with that. Before GDF11, I was at the point where hiking up a mountain with a 40 pound pack was very difficult and not fun.  Now it's easy.  And I only go maybe 4 weekends from May to September. Not enough to get in really good hiking shape.

• The red light effect is abnormal and therefore just worrying. 

The "red light effect" is from very, very sharp vision.  I don't see how this is a bad thing

• Also consider that after 18 months you are now in the opposite season from where you started, which can affect weight, hair, skin, and even color perception (here in the Northeast colors definitely appear much brighter this time of year, probably due to a combination of the cold clean air, different light frequencies scattered by the fall/winter sky, and grey background).

The sharp vision is something I experience every day on GDF11.  And it is what I titrate the dose to. It is not affected by the time of year.

Having said this, I am glad you are posting perceived results.  Most people don't.  I certainly hope these effects do turn out to be unambiguous with further use.  

 

A few people have said they are trying GDF11 and hopefully they'll post their results here.  As for me, I go for another round of biomarkers in January, so we'll see if the positive trend continues.  I am optimistic, because after much trial and error, I believe I have the dose nailed down at .01 ug/day.  I believe the dosing window to be very narrow for GDF11, so getting the dose right is key.

[sthira]

Great job, Steve, and I applaud your work, self-experimentation, and sharing here. Please don't go away -- I hope you'll continue your updates no matter what the outcome. Just don't get dead :-)

Also I'm curious about how you know if your .01 ug/day doses are affecting your body's GDF11 levels? Are your levels increasing? How is that measured?

[SarahB12]

Therein lies the problem of quantifying any changes in aging.  As far as I know, we really don't know what exactly aging is other than it correlates with degradation of many things.  Many of these things hard to measure and virtually all things absolutely impossible isolate variables in an n=1 experiment. But it is still good information, just not "proof" yet....

 

 

[stevegperry]

Hello Longecity,

 

I have some time today to answer some of the questions above...

 

Great job, Steve, and I applaud your work, self-experimentation, and sharing here. Please don't go away -- I hope you'll continue your updates no matter what the outcome. Just don't get dead :-)

Thanks.  Not going anywhere and I appreciate all the feedback, whether it be good or bad.  As for dying, I'd say that's highly unlikely at this point.  When I was taking 5000 times the dose I am now at the beginning of this experiment, there was probably some risk.  But now that I have found the right dose, I feel great every day.

 

Also I'm curious about how you know if your .01 ug/day doses are affecting your body's GDF11 levels? Are your levels increasing? How is that measured?

 

The assays to measure GDF11 are not ready for prime time yet since they also measure GDF8 and immunoglobin.  Hopefully this will change soon.  I actually titrate my dose to having the very sharp vision/red lights in the afternoon.  And no side effects, of course.

 

You have mentioned that you put on muscle mass (and a not-so-insignificant amount too; 5 lbs if I recall right from your word document) during the experiment. Here are the possible ways this could have happened

 

1- GDF11 is not binding to Mysotatin sites at any appreciable degree at these doses. If it were, Myostatin activation would have reduced muscle mass

 

I read in a paper recently that the circulating levels of myostatin are 500 times that of GDF11. And with the small dose I am taking, .01 ug, there probably isn't much cross binding to activin Type 2 receptors.

 

2- GDF is, to some extent binding to Myostatin sites, but the other effects you mentioned that are pro-muscle-growth are way greater and the net effect is an increase of muscle mass.

 

I would say the main mechanism of action here is what Amy Wagers outlined in her paper:  satellite stem cell DNA repair resulting in increased myocyte production.

 

You have mentioned that GDF11 is a stable molecule. Do you have any guess as to how long it will last after being reconstituted? If one were to prepare a solution and keep it in the fridge for months on end, would it still be good?

 

My current vial is two months old and still going strong.  And this summer, my vial of GDF11 sat in a hot tent for 5 days and emerged unscathed.  GDF11 is much tougher than GH, that's for sure.  Still I would keep it in the fridge as much as possible.

 

Have you noticed any subjective effects on joints, as in joint pain, stability, discomfort (my expectation would be a decrease in joint issues btw)

 

Before GDF11, I did have pain in my right elbow that got so bad sometimes that I couldn't pick up luggage.  And I also had pain in my right shoulder that occurred any time I tried to move my right arm past 90 degrees.  On GDF11, both of these joint pain issues have gone away.  GDF11 has resulted in me having zero health issues which I am very thankful for.  I see a lot of my friends now experiencing tendon issues and knee issues and many have had to slog it around NYC in a boot.

 

My joints and knees are great shape now and I just bought a season pass to Killington where I plan on doing lots of hard skiing this winter!

 

GH may be pro or anti-aging depending on the dose and the associated rise in IGF levels IMHO. You, being a very meticulous learner,  surely have considered the pros and cons and adjusted the dose accordingly. Assuming that you are using GH for anti-aging purposes, as opposed to maximizing muscle mass and minimizing fat mass, what dose do you think optimal for this purpose?

 

I take .8 IU of GH every day which results in a IGF-1 level of about 180 ng/ml.  My doc recommends higher doses, but when I increase the dose, I experience minor edema and sometimes carpal tunnel.  When I went off GH during the first few months of my GDF11 supplementation, my IGF-1 level dropped to 107 ng/ml, so GDF11 doesn't appear to help GH production.

 

The main reason I take GH is to keep my body fat in check.  If you have my zip file, you'll notice my body fat is 26%, which is not great.  If I go off of GH, my bodyfat will go to over 30%.

 

I do work out at the gym twice per week and ride my bike around quite a bit.  And these workouts are far easier on GDF11.  However, I live in NYC and I have at least 20 favorite restaurants! So on GH I will stay unless someone comes up with a better alternative.

 

 

 

[platypus]

 And to be subjective here, I've been told by many people that I have bulked up on GDF11.

 

Hello internets, GDF11 appears to be anabolic! 

 

(Sorry I had to spell this out as the bodybuilding-community is much less risk-averse as the life-extension one and the more people try this the better) 

[jCole]

Hello All,
 
There were a few posts with concerns about the quality of GDF11 that I injected.  My GDF11 was ordered from Peprotech (see link below) - this lab has a solid reputation and I trust that their GDF11 is 98% pure as per their GDF11 description page.  Yes, it should be tested for purity, but there is no easy way to do this right now since the GDF11 assays pick up GDF8 (myostatin) as well as immunoglobin.  Hopefully this will change soon.
 
Also, with when taking GDF11, one of the easiest ways to know that it is working is that you have sharp vision/red lights (as per my paper), in the late afternoon.  If you stop taking GDF11, this effect will disappear in a couple of days.  I've also had four batches of GDF11 made by Peprotech and they all had the same results.  So odds are, Peprotech's GDF11 is the real deal.
 
I have procuring, mixing and injecting instructions in a Word document, but your site doesn't appear to allow attachments, so I pasted the content of the Word document below.  Excuse the formatting.
 
I look forward to hearing some first hand accounts of GDF11 supplementation, and PLEASE take a good set of biomarkers pre and post (after 3 months) GDF11.
 
Tnx.
 
Steve
 
 
 
 
 Procuring, Mixing and Injecting GDF11

 

1 )Risk – There is still considerable risk in taking GDF11.  Only one person (me) has tested it and then there is still plenty that can go wrong at this point.  If you are not willing to accept the risk of GDF11, then stick to telomerase activation.
 
2) Talk to your doctor about taking GDF11.  An outside opinion for injecting something this powerful is a good idea.
 
3) Before you start on GDF11, please have all your biomarkers done.  The biomarkers mentioned in my paper are a good start.  We need to get as much data as possible on human use of GDF11 and this will benefit us all.  If you feel comfortable, please send me your biomarkers and I will put them in my database.  I will then write a bunch of reports displaying and correlating all the biomarker data I receive. After 3 months, repeat the same set of biomarkers and send them to me for analysis.
 
4)      I buy my GDF11 from Peprotech:
 
 https://www.peprotec...n_GDF-11/120-11
 
5) You can start with one 5 ug vial GDF11 for $80.  Note that their GDF11 is for “research purposes” only. If you say it for human trials, they will not sell it to you. They also will not sell to individuals.  You need to give them the name and address of your medical practice, scientific institution, etc.
 
6) The stated purity of Peprotech’s GDF11 is 98%.  I’m sure we can do better and am open to suggestions as how to commission a lab to make a purer version.
 
7)      Once you have your GDF11, you need to mix it into a 10 ml bottle with 4 ccs of bacteriostatic water.  Here are links for the bottles and the water:
http://www.amazon.co...a/dp/B006TNFSX6
http://www.mountains...ater-30-ml.html
 
8)      To mix up the GDF11, use a 1 cc syringe to pull 4 ccs out of the bacteriostatic water bottle and put it in a sterile 10 ml bottle.
9)      Then take .75 ccs out of the sterile 10 ml vile and place it in the 5 ug GDF11 plastic vile.  Rotate slowly and carefully to mix it up.  Note that it looks like there is nothing in the GDF11 plastic vile, since 5 ug is a very, very small amount.
10)   Use the 1 cc syringe to take the mixed .75 ccs out of the GDF11 plastic vile and inject back into the sterile 10 ml bottle.
11)   Repeat the above two steps at least twice to make sure you get most of the lyophilized GDF11 out of the vial.
12)   Now the sterile 10 ml bottle contains ready to inject liquid mixture of GDF11.  GDF11 is very resilient, but you should keep it in the fridge (not the freezer).
13)   I use .3 cc insulin needles to inject the GDF11 subcutaneously.  If you followed the above instructions, each unit on the insulin needle equates to .0125 ug of GDF11.
14)   As I said in the paper, I recommend you start with .05 ug of GDF11 every day.  Which is 4 units on the insulin needle.
15)   As it says in the paper, you may experience GDF11 side effects of dyspnea or GERD.  If you do get these side effects, skip a few days and cut the dose.  I also recommend tracking your doses and a couple of simple biomarkers (BP, weight, etc.) in a Google docs spreadsheet.
16)   Feel free to keep me up to date on your progress, and of course your biomarkers, by emailing me at steve@stevegperry.com

 

 

I appreciate all the work you have put forth towards this Steve. While I'll need to do alot more homework in regards to this, I may give this a run after I finish my current bulk/cutting cycle.
 
I think what I'll do, after I'm finished this coming Spring, is settle into a static, regimented routine of nutrition and exercise for a couple months, to limit the variables as much as possible, gets some blood work done, then jump on some GDF11.
 
Again, thanks for being a human guinea pig, GDF11 has been on my radar for some time now.

 

 

Edited by jCole, 12 December 2015 - 02:09 AM.

[sub7]

Gentlemen,

 

Do we know if GDF11 crosses the blood-brain-barrier?

If not, would it still -by way of secondary mechanisms- slow down the aging of the brain?

[Multivitz]

I hope his brain cells don't get insensitive to his own growth hormone as diabetics cells get insensitive to Insulin. You won't know until the sensation of wakefulness diminishes, or the character gets small minded.
I only see drug addicts, doctors, diabetics with poor diets injecting something directy in the body. I understand them all, but I also understand that with substances like growth hormones an extra amount of nutrients must be consumed, otherwise the shortfall creates mutations of growth. These mutations may lead to inflammation in the area at any time. If anyone knows about inflammation they can tell you what the bodies intrinsic response is.
Anyway I would like to wish the guinea pig well and ask was Silica and Amino acids made available in the diet while doing this drug? Thanks for putting up with my pessimism with regards to synthetic drugs.

[Logic]

GHK was discovered during studies comparing the effect of human plasma from young persons (age 20–25) to plasma from older persons like GDF11 was.
It has a high affinity for highly destructive Cu2+ and forms a GHK-Cu complex and seems to reset genes to a yuonger, healthier state with the following downstream effects:

• Increases cellular stemness and the secretion of trophic factors by mesenchymal stem cells.
• Chemoattraction of repair cells such as macrophages, mast cells, capillary cells.
• Resets genes of diseased cells from patients with cancer or COPD to a more healthy state.
• Blocks stomach ulcer development, and heals intestinal ulcers and bone tissue.
• Neuronal development and maintenance.
• Tightens skin, improves elasticity and firmness, reduces fine lines, wrinkles, photodamage and hyperpigmentation by increasing protein synthesis of collagen, elastin, and blocks ultraviolet damage to skin keratinocytes and improves fibroblast recovery. (FGF2)
• Improves wound healing and tissue regeneration (skin, hair follicles, stomach and intestinal linings, and boney tissue) by increasing protein synthesis of glycosaminoglycans, decorin, metalloproteinases, anti-proteases, vascular endothelial growth factor, nerve growth factor, neutrotropins 3 and 4, and erythropoietin
• Possesses anti-inflammatory actions, suppresses free radicals, thromboxane formation, release of oxidizing iron, transforming growth factor beta-1, tumor necrosis factor alpha and protein glycation while increasing superoxide dismutase, vessel vasodilation.

 

http://www.longecity...neration/page-1

 

 

I wonder what effects a combination of GDF-11, GHK and similar factors might have!??

Edited by Logic, 13 December 2015 - 05:45 PM.

[adamh]

I too am skeptical after having seen countless miracle compounds turn out to be way less than miracles and in some cases to have more negative side effects than benefits. However this does sound promising. If $80 will buy you 50 doses its not too expensive to try. What about a group buy with someone who has the credentials to order it and maybe even knock down a better price? Tell them you want 20 or more vials and they might work with you. Steve, are you interested?

[PWAIN]

Adamh, maybe start a new thread for a group buy and go from there. Put me down as interested.

[stevegperry]

I too am skeptical after having seen countless miracle compounds turn out to be way less than miracles and in some cases to have more negative side effects than benefits. However this does sound promising.

 

I hear you - there have been more false starts and empty promises in the anti aging world than I can count. However, I have been working hard to stop aging for 24 years and I have seen a few good things along the way, namely GH, testosterone and telomerase activation. Though once you get by the side effects (which you shouldn't have if you follow my dosing methodology), GDF11 is a magnitude beyond anything else I've seen.

There are plenty of peer reviewed papers on mice that back this up.  And there's no reason it shouldn't have the same effect on humans since GDF11's molecular structure is the same across all vertebrates.  Which is something I have never seen before in any other peptide.

 

If $80 will buy you 50 doses its not too expensive to try. What about a group buy with someone who has the credentials to order it and maybe even knock down a better price? Tell them you want 20 or more vials and they might work with you. Steve, are you interested?

 

Thanks, but my maintenance dose is very low right now, .01 ug/day, so I literally have a 30 year supply in the fridge. If each of you guys buy one 5 ug/vial for $80 each, it should easily last you over a year.  Though it's possible it may degrade a bit, but I still see plenty of efficacy out of my 3 month old vial.

 

BTW, here is another lab which I found easy to work with: http://www.miltenyib...man-gdf-11.aspx

 

GDF11 is so cheap, its cost is barely worth mentioning.  The biomarkers I mention, which everyone should do, can cost you a bit, but worth every penny if you really want to verify quantitatively GDF11's effectiveness.

 

GHK was discovered during studies comparing the effect of human plasma from young persons (age 20–25) to plasma from older persons like GDF11 was.

 

Thanks Logic for your post above mentioning GHK.  Will look into buying and testing some after my next round of GDF11 biomarkers in January.

 

[adamh]

Adamh, maybe start a new thread for a group buy and go from there. Put me down as interested.

 

Lets see if anyone else is interested. The other problem is we have no one who can order the stuff. If all we need is .01 ug then one bottle is enough for a long time though the loading phase might use a little more. If we get some more interest and someone who can and will order it for us, we can shoot for a group - buy

[Logic]

 

GHK was discovered during studies comparing the effect of human plasma from young persons (age 20–25) to plasma from older persons like GDF11 was.

 

Thanks Logic for your post above mentioning GHK.  Will look into buying and testing some after my next round of GDF11 biomarkers in January.

 

Pleasure Steve

 

Note that a group buy was organised through TLR.
After a nasty bunfight it eventually turned out that TLR's product was legit and is showing interesting results in those taking it. 
 

Anecdotal reports start round about here:
http://www.longecity...eration/page-22

[sub7]

Hi Steve,

 

All sounds great and I am looking forward to running my own experiment. However, I have doubts about the dosage. Needless to say, there are many factors to consider when attempting to fine-tune the dose, and we (you, to be more specific) have not had a chance to do so yet. A few concerns that come to mind:

 

- The initial high dose you have used might have "reset" some mechanisms or in some other way kick-started the process of anti-aging. As such, .01 ug per day without the initial high dose may not be enough to achieve the results that you have

 

- When determining the ideal dose, measuring the serum levels of young individuals and from there calculating what must be injected is potentially very misleading. The peptide may undergo initial rapid degradation or may be absorbed quickly by tissues. The amount that must be taken exogenously may therefore be much higher than what one might calculate by measuring serum levels in young people per unit of blood and multiplying this number by the amount of blood in circulation.

 

- Some of us (the majority of us in fact) are not trying to merely stop the aging process. but actually reverse it. As such, we may need higher levels than were present at young ages.

 

The list goes on, and as a very well-read and inquisitive individual I am sure you are well aware of these. In the final analysis, what we want is results and you have obtained precisely the results we are all seeking. These concerns pale in comparison to the outcome we are observing. However, I still wanted to mention these, with the hope that the resulting process will carry us all forward.

 

Best to all.....

 

PS: Two questions. Do we know if GDF11 crosses the Blood-brain-barrier?

Can you please tell us again for how long you have been at the stable does of .01 ug per day. I tried to look that up but couldn't find it.

[Rocket]

Interesting thread.  I ordered GDF11 through a research supplier for my own lab rat tests and will post results & observations.

[platypus]

What is your take on this? 

 

GDF11 Increases with Age and Inhibits Skeletal Muscle Regeneration

 

http://www.cell.com/...4131(15)00222-3

 

...looks like Steve's N=1 experiment contradicts the study

[stevegperry]

Hello All,

 

As far as the post above stating "GDF11 Increases with Age and Inhibits Skeletal Muscle Regeneration"  this has be debunked by http://news.sciencem...ard-team-claims

Also, circulating GDF11 levels are very, very small - I estimate around 840 ng.  This is 1/500 that of myostatin. So you'd really have to grossly overdose yourself with GDF11 before you had myostatin cross binding issues.

 

- The initial high dose you have used might have "reset" some mechanisms or in some other way kick-started the process of anti-aging. As such, .01 ug per day without the initial high dose may not be enough to achieve the results that you have

 

This is a good point and we really won't know how much higher an initial dose is needed until a few more people try it.  Assuming you are not 18, you probably are running a GDF11 deficit that needs to be addressed first.  Obviously I was running a deficit of GDF11 since I was able to tolerate 40,000 times the dose I take now.  

 

Sill, even a dose of .05 ug is probably enough to "fill the tank" (down regulate in more technical terms) fairly quickly.

 

BTW, I have kept reducing my dose and I am now down to .00125 ug (1.25 ng) of GDF11/day.  And I still get the sharp vision/red lights every day. And feel better than ever.  So once again, less is more with GDF11.

The fact that 2.5 ng of anything can have any kind of effect is pretty mind boggling.  But assuming circulating levels are 840 ng, than 1.25 ng/day represents .148% of the circulating GDF11.  Which may still be too high if you assume we age only 1% per year. 

 

Some of us (the majority of us in fact) are not trying to merely stop the aging process. but actually reverse it. As such, we may need higher levels than were present at young ages.

 

I do not think this will work.  GDF11 has "de aged" me maybe 17 years and that's it.  Which is great in my book and maybe I can stay at this point for a long time.

 

 

My theory is that you stem cell colonies, like hematopoietic (blood producing stem cells) cells die off over time due to insufficient GDF11 levels, and they cannot be brought back.  You start out with 20,000 hematopoietic cells and remember that Dutch woman who died at age 116 only had two left!!  Now if we had given her GDF11 for her 115th birthday, do you think her hematopoietic stem cell population would have returned to 20,000?  I doubt it, but maybe I'll be proven wrong.  I'll let the heavy hitter molecular biologists on this site weigh in on this.

 

Do we know if GDF11 crosses the Blood-brain-barrier?

 

Definitely.  Here's how GDF11 improves your sense of smell in the olfactory epithelium http://www.sciencedi...896627302011728

 

[Rocket]

I hope his brain cells don't get insensitive to his own growth hormone as diabetics cells get insensitive to Insulin.

 

Wow, so negative about HGH.  I believe insulin insensitivity *can* occur at very high doses of HGH.  Also DHEA nullifies the effect which is why teenagers have very high levels of HGH and don't become insulin resistant - they also have high levels of DHEA. There is a US patent for using HGH to regrow the thymus in older persons and using DHEA to maintain insulin sensitivity.

[sub7]

Once again, you have taken time to answer all questions.

U = The Man!

Thanks a ton