383 replies to this topic

[aribadabar]

rndsystems.com only has 10mcg vials, how can we dilute correctly keeping sterile condition?same process using 60ml bacterostatic water?

 

Yes, the same as the compound and the diluent are double in size.

Or you can still use 30ml bac water and get a double concentration (3.33 ng/unit) so use half a dose. e.g. if you need to inject 10ng at this double potency you will use 3 units, instead of 6 units on the syringe (at the regular 1.67 ng/unit).

[lost69]

dose needed for me is probably less than 1ng per day, i found 500ml and 1l sterile water at local pharmacy so now i can dilute to 2ng or 1ng

[aribadabar]

dose needed for me is probably less than 1ng per day, i found 500ml and 1l sterile water at local pharmacy so now i can dilute to 2ng or 1ng

 

That's unlikely if you are over 35 as the formula calls for at least 3.5ng/day depending on your weight.

 

You sure you found sterile water FOR INJECTION at those quantities?

It sounds more like distilled water at these sizes which while good for general dilution is not as sterile for injection purposes.

If not rated for injection I recommend against using it. Do not skimp as you can have tiny amounts of bacteria in it and then you'll need to throw the whole expensive GDF11 solution out or face endotoxicity.

[lost69]

 

dose needed for me is probably less than 1ng per day, i found 500ml and 1l sterile water at local pharmacy so now i can dilute to 2ng or 1ng

 

That's unlikely if you are over 35 as the formula calls for at least 3.5ng/day depending on your weight.

 

You sure you found sterile water FOR INJECTION at those quantities?

It sounds more like distilled water at these sizes which while good for general dilution is not as sterile for injection purposes.

If not rated for injection I recommend against using it. Do not skimp as you can have tiny amounts of bacteria in it and then you'll need to throw the whole expensive GDF11 solution out or face endotoxicity.

 

 

they said they use it for their internal lab and they can custom make it to my requirements size for injection, i stressed it must be sterile to dilute drug for injection.when i go to pick it up i will double check everything with them

 

i applied that formula but basic biomarkers trend for the worse even with 0.8ng once a week and i am even starting to feel bad/less energy, my next try will be 1ng a week

[aribadabar]

 

i applied that formula but basic biomarkers trend for the worse even with 0.8ng once a week and i am even starting to feel bad/less energy, my next try will be 1ng a week

 

What is your age?

Unless you are replete, I doubt it is GDF-11 to blame for the deterioration.

Maybe run a blood test for GDF-11 to see where you are at and adjust the formula to your particular situation: daily dose=  ((2094- <your GDF-11 value> )/90 )*<your weight in kg>/90

[lost69]

 

 

i applied that formula but basic biomarkers trend for the worse even with 0.8ng once a week and i am even starting to feel bad/less energy, my next try will be 1ng a week

 

What is your age?

Unless you are replete, I doubt it is GDF-11 to blame for the deterioration.

Maybe run a blood test for GDF-11 to see where you are at and adjust the formula to your particular situation: daily dose=  ((2094- <your GDF-11 value> )/90 )*<your weight in kg>/90

 

 

i'm 48yo but look 35-38yo for most poeple and less for some others

 

i don t think there are reliable tests for gdf11 easily available

 

anyway at the end of the week biomarkers trend go opposite to improving, that s why i think it is a dose issue.i think the 1ng dose will tell

 

 

[mikey]

 

dose needed for me is probably less than 1ng per day, i found 500ml and 1l sterile water at local pharmacy so now i can dilute to 2ng or 1ng

 

That's unlikely if you are over 35 as the formula calls for at least 3.5ng/day depending on your weight.

 

You sure you found sterile water FOR INJECTION at those quantities?

It sounds more like distilled water at these sizes which while good for general dilution is not as sterile for injection purposes.

If not rated for injection I recommend against using it. Do not skimp as you can have tiny amounts of bacteria in it and then you'll need to throw the whole expensive GDF11 solution out or face endotoxicity.

 

 

 

And it MUST be bacteriostatic sterile water. Even better is bacteriostatic water with sodium, so that it matches human body fluids.

https://www.mountain...e-for-injection

 

But it should at least be bacteriostatic with benzyl alcohol to inhibit bacterial growth.

 

This is easy to find online for cheap, as above.

[lost69]

 

 

dose needed for me is probably less than 1ng per day, i found 500ml and 1l sterile water at local pharmacy so now i can dilute to 2ng or 1ng

 

That's unlikely if you are over 35 as the formula calls for at least 3.5ng/day depending on your weight.

 

You sure you found sterile water FOR INJECTION at those quantities?

It sounds more like distilled water at these sizes which while good for general dilution is not as sterile for injection purposes.

If not rated for injection I recommend against using it. Do not skimp as you can have tiny amounts of bacteria in it and then you'll need to throw the whole expensive GDF11 solution out or face endotoxicity.

 

 

 

And it MUST be bacteriostatic sterile water. Even better is bacteriostatic water with sodium, so that it matches human body fluids.

https://www.mountain...e-for-injection

 

But it should at least be bacteriostatic with benzyl alcohol to inhibit bacterial growth.

 

This is easy to find online for cheap, as above.

 

 

thank you, bacteriostatic sodium chloride was available 100, 250 and 500ml but i was suggested it could damage gdf11

 

i have to ask if they can supply sterile water with benzyl alcohol 0.9%
 

[mikey]

 

 

 

dose needed for me is probably less than 1ng per day, i found 500ml and 1l sterile water at local pharmacy so now i can dilute to 2ng or 1ng

 

That's unlikely if you are over 35 as the formula calls for at least 3.5ng/day depending on your weight.

 

You sure you found sterile water FOR INJECTION at those quantities?

It sounds more like distilled water at these sizes which while good for general dilution is not as sterile for injection purposes.

If not rated for injection I recommend against using it. Do not skimp as you can have tiny amounts of bacteria in it and then you'll need to throw the whole expensive GDF11 solution out or face endotoxicity.

 

 

 

And it MUST be bacteriostatic sterile water. Even better is bacteriostatic water with sodium, so that it matches human body fluids.

https://www.mountain...e-for-injection

 

But it should at least be bacteriostatic with benzyl alcohol to inhibit bacterial growth.

 

This is easy to find online for cheap, as above.

 

 

thank you, bacteriostatic sodium chloride was available 100, 250 and 500ml but i was suggested it could damage gdf11

 

i have to ask if they can supply sterile water with benzyl alcohol 0.9%
 

 

 

Steveperry, do you know if the sodium version of 0.9% benzyl alcohol bacteriostatic water will damage GDF11?

[stevegperry]

Mikey,

 

Could you mix something like lyophilized growth hormone into the sodium version of 0.9% benzyl alcohol bacteriostatic water and would it be stable and safe for injection?  If so, I'm fairly sure GDF11 could be mixed with the benzyl alcohol water and work fine.  BTW, as far as I can tell, GDF11 is extremely resilient and stable.  Mine is over a year old, has not always been refrigerated and works just fine.

 

As for this statement "That's unlikely if you are over 35 as the formula calls for at least 3.5ng/day depending on your weight" read the latest version of my paper carefully.  Note that the formula is for the starting  dose only.  To get the dose right, and this is not easy since GDF11 dosing is very nuanced, you need to fill out a daily dosing/biomarker trending spreadsheet every day and make sure that BP trends down, HRV trends up and reaction time trends down.  Take too much GDF11, and you'll see just the opposite - not good!

 

[mikey]

Mikey,

 

Could you mix something like lyophilized growth hormone into the sodium version of 0.9% benzyl alcohol bacteriostatic water and would it be stable and safe for injection?  If so, I'm fairly sure GDF11 could be mixed with the benzyl alcohol water and work fine.  BTW, as far as I can tell, GDF11 is extremely resilient and stable.  Mine is over a year old, has not always been refrigerated and works just fine.

 

As for this statement "That's unlikely if you are over 35 as the formula calls for at least 3.5ng/day depending on your weight" read the latest version of my paper carefully.  Note that the formula is for the starting  dose only.  To get the dose right, and this is not easy since GDF11 dosing is very nuanced, you need to fill out a daily dosing/biomarker trending spreadsheet every day and make sure that BP trends down, HRV trends up and reaction time trends down.  Take too much GDF11, and you'll see just the opposite - not good!

 

After not using GDF11 for five days I re-started at 8 ng and it gave me reflux, so the sodium apparently didn't harm the GDF11.

 

As it was I found that if I used 5-6 ng I did not experience reflux.

[stevegperry]

Mikey,

 

Glad to hear that your GDF11 works well in sodium solution.

 

However, you dosing approach of titrating to side effects is from the early days of GDF11 supplementation when we had nothing better.  If you have GERD and even if it goes away, you are still probably in a deep overdose state.  Dosing GDF11 is highly nuanced and is counter intuitive - you often need to take a break or cut the dose dramatically to improve things.

 

Eventually you down regulate, usually after 4 to 6, weeks and then you do a small maintenance dose of .1 ng twice/week.  But during down regulation, you often need to cut the dose/take a break and the best way to do this is by watching BP, HRV and reaction time trending.  I do have a spreadsheet that does all this and I can send you one if you promise to diligently fill it out.

 

Steve

[DareDevil]

Hi Steve Perry,

 

Your recent postings about reducing doses have me a bit puzzled. I diluted GDF-11 in injectable saline solution and have not had any negative side effects at high microdoses. I started injecting 20ng and am not injecting over 100ng daily without any GERD or other noticeable issues. Could you tell me what dangers this might represent, or if you think that at such doses the lack of sides means that my product is no longer active?

 

Thanks for your advice

 

DareDevil

[stevegperry]

DareDevil,

 

You live up to your name, that's for sure.  100 ng is a huge dose and few could tolerate it.  Also, I know this thread is long now, but I recently mentioned that dosing to under the side effect level is a crude, sledgehammer approach.  If you want maximum efficacy out of GDF11 and don't want to harm yourself, you need to do daily trending analysis of your blood pressure, HRV, pulse and reaction time.  Here is a sample spreadsheet and I can make one for you if you promise to diligently fill it out: https://drive.google...E4Cqp21ae5Il4lQ

 

Just so you know, my dose is .1 ng twice/week.  We only lose about 20 ng of GDF11/year, so these tiny doses make sense.  Also, a 40 year old has about 2000 ng of circulating GDF11, so in less than a month you are doubling this.  Which almost certainly means that most of your GDF11 is binding to activin type 2 (myostatin) receptors.  Not good.

 

Just curious - are you a smoker past or present?  One thing I've noticed is that smokers can take 10x the dose of GDF11 and not feel anything. They still get results, especially cardiac.  But skin elasticity in a smoker is hard to improve.

 

 

[stevegperry]

Hello Longecity,

 

My RAADFest 2017 presentation is up on YouTube if you'd like to take a look: 

 

We've come a long way with GDF11 since I first tried it 3.5 years ago.  As you can see from the presentation, since circulating levels of GDF11 are extremely low (1400 ng on average in a 40 year old), and we age maybe 1%/year, even 1 ng/month is a pretty high dose.

 

One does need to down regulate to replace some lost GDF11 - we typically start people off at 1 ng/day for 4 to 6 weeks and make sure blood pressure, pulse, HRV and reaction time trend the right direction.  Titrating your dose to proper daily biomarker trending is definitely the biggest GDF11 breakthrough made to date.

 

Then usually after down regulation, most people only take .1 ng twice per week.  Hard to believe 10 trillionths of a gram can do anything, but we have plenty of biomarkers to show considerable improvement in cardiac, neural, skin and other areas.

 

Feedback on my talk is welcome and hope to see you all at RAADFest 2018!

 

Steve

 

[DareDevil]

Hi Steve Perry,

 

Thanks for taking the time from your busy schedule to offer helpful advice. 

 

I understand that you've determined that doses for GDF-11 should be as low as possible and that you see problems with dosing to increase one's level above the naturally occurring levels of GDF-11. My assumption, perhaps an incorrect one, its hat GDF heals one's body and helps to reconstitute aging ailing or failing cells, and that this might enhanced more by higher than lower levels of GDF-11 than normally occur in nature. You will surely not be alone in questioning my logic. However I am not asserting this to be fact, only considering it as a possible working hypothesis. After all, we know precious little about this substance, let alone its optimum dosing for either therapeutic, anti-aging or health maintenance purposes.

 

I get it that when in doubt, don't do anything potentially dangerous, and this principle of precaution must reign supreme, except in the case of a daredevil. I don't want to gamble dangerously with my health, but at the same time I don't want to miss out on the opportunity to further boost the rejuvenation process by increasing dosage. Others have a GERD gastric reflux reaction and I can understand they'd stop or dial down their dosage. My only reaction to overly high levels of GDF-11 is insomnia, and of course it this gets out of hand then I will also stop or dramatically reduce dosage. 

 

What begs question, for me, is what manifest risks have been isolated as caused by higher than natural levels of GDF-11 in one's blood? We can all agree that any medication is using a chemical imbalance to produce wanted results, with positive impact as well as frequent side-effects. If these side effects can be lived with and the benefits are sufficient, we medicate. Similarly I am considering the potential youthening benefits of higher levels than usual of GDF-11 given that this is a key differentiator of young and old subjects. While it is clear there is nothing scientific about such a hypothesis, and that it can't readily be verified or falsified without laboratory testing with a control group, we can at least agree that it doesn't follow the principle of caution and that in the absence of a manifest benefit that is highly likely, one should refrain from taking unnecessary risks. 

 

In your recent post, you referred to the fact that excessively high levels of GDF-11 can reduce one's muscle mass, at least that's what I inferred perhaps incorrectly from your saying that it would bind to activin type 2 receptors. However, even were this the case, it doesn't mean that at the same time it wouldn't potentially have positive effects elsewhere in one's organism? 

 

Finally, while I appreciate the methodical care you take in testing a wide panel of experimenters of this substance, I am not sure of the relevance of the parameters retained as reference points for progress evaluation. Please forgive my biomedical ignorance, in laymen's terms it isn't transparent and seems very fastidious. If there are key analyses in this testing that weren't described in your video or above in this thread, thanks for pointing them out.

 

All in all, your advice is making me want to either stop or drastically reduce my intake of GDF-11, but not for the right reasons. I am not one who responds readily to fear, and it would be such a fear of dread illness and debilitation that your words of warning allude to. If the risk is benign, why not take it, even if not in the presence of certain benefits? After all, nothing risked, little gained.

 

Thanks again for your kind advice and helpful consideration.

 

DareDevil

 

 

[DareDevil]

Here is an example of the scientific wording I find hard to decipher, as I am missing many of the technical reference points needed to make sense of it:

 

• ""Myostatin, GDF11, and activins (A and B) bind to and signal through either the ActRIIA or ActRIIB receptor on the cell membrane, with ActRIIB initially identified to be myostatin's prime receptor. Upon binding to ActRII, the ligand and type II receptor form a complex with a type I receptor, either activin receptor-like kinase 4 (ALK4) or ALK5, to stimulate the phosphorylation of the Smad2 and Smad3 transcription factors in the cytoplasm. Phosphorylated Smad2/3 are then translocated to the nucleus and modulate the transcription of target genes, including MyoD."
• http://mcb.asm.org/c...t/34/4/606.full
•  

Thanks to anyone who can better explain these scientific observations. I better understand from Steve Perry's post than from this study that one might lose skeletal muscle mass from an excess of GDF-11. At least that's what I hope to have understood.

 

DD

[stevegperry]

DareDevil,

 

Please go to GDF11Rejuvenation.com and read my latest paper and watch my RAADFest presentation.  All your above questions are answered there.  Note that the only way to properly dose GDF11 is to titrate to trending in BP, pulse, RT and HRV.  Titrating to no side effects (e.g., GERD) is a sledgehammer approach and you can easily run into trouble.  For example, the proper amount of GDF11 will make your BP trend lower over time, but too much can easily make your BP trend up.  And we don't want that, now do we?

[DareDevil]

Hi Steve Perry,

 

Thanks of your words of caution. I find it extremely important that, from the standpoint of your position as the main supporter of GDF-11 experimentation, you exercise cautionary prudence in all your recommendations. Many folks have health issues and it is important to remain careful especially when dealing with many unknowns.

 

However, my nickname is DareDevil and those well versed in English know that this isn't something to me emulated. I saw Evil Knievel try to jump the Grand Canyon on a rocket powered motorcycle and didn't want to be a copycat. Yet, despite my sledgehammer approach because I'm trying to tear down the wall of aging, I do listen to sensible suggestions that apply and also I pay attention to signals from my body.

 

Regarding this, by BP remains very stable despite GDF-11 usage, up to this point. Obviously this may come to change. But I've been blessed with a cardiovascular system and heart that several cardiologists have said they envied. I therefore may not be fully representative of the norm of the bell curve in that regard. Yet, I have temporarily fully stopped taking GDF-11. This is because I had two successive almost entirely sleepless nights after my latest intake. 

 

To me this isn't necessarily a bad sign. I feel like I'm in too great shape to waste my time sleeping. This says to me that the GDF-11 is also busy at work rebuilding my body and that it is entirely in "active mode". However, for two reasons I am stopping for a while. First, if it is this active, great because tangible progress has been achieved. Therefore why press my luck? After all I am willing to take risks for benefits, but once benefits are achieved why take more risks? Secondly, my body probably needs recovery time after going into overload. It's not normal at all to spend several nights without sleep. I did so without drugs when I was 21 years old. I fell asleep mid-way on the 6th night. So I have an uncanny constitution and a great deal of natural resiliency.

 

I will read your update, I hadn't as last time I looked it was an earlier version I had already seen. Thanks for keeping us abreast of news and progress. I am a staunch believer of GDF-11's benefits and have even ordered another 20ug vial - although if I follow suit with your advice it would last me a decade?

cheers

DareDevil

[DareDevil]

Hi Guys,

 

Now of course what I say will surely be very controversial and also could ruffle some feathers. So I wish to start with a disclaimer that I do not in any way encourage others to emulate or otherwise be inspired to increase their recommended dosage. I am not a pondered contentious scientific advisor nor have I done due process regarding the potential medical consequences of my actions. This is not to be repeated by you.

 

But I do nonetheless feel the need to report something I have duly noted and recorded in my experience of GDF-11 usage at one hundred times higher than the recommended dosage. For reference it has been stated using various indicators and measurements of biological responses that one should reach a maintenance dose at or below one nanogram of GDF-11. I have been taking approximately twice a week a dosage of around 100 nanograms.

 

I stopped this dosage a week ago due to two subsequent sleepless nights. However I took another dose 5 days later, along with 10mg of Epitalon and 10mg of GHK/GHK-Cu. What I noticed was not likely the result of this dosage only. It was possibly due to the cumulative effect of higher levels of GDF-11 in my body, and also possibly to the use of Epitalon as this substance isn't well known for its effects other than telomere lengthening. The GHK/GHK-Cu has only been used for a short time and is therefore unlikely to have been for much in this result.

 

A number of years ago I stupidly helped my nursery tree grower when one of his guys failed to show up for work. We were planting a bunch of trees. Normally it takes several guys to hold up a palm tree slightly above the bottom of the hole it will be planted in, while another guy uses a shovel to fill the hole. My muscles worked fine and I felt sturdy when it came to planting a larger palm tree. Little did I realize it was super heavy as it has a highly concentrated water content.

 

A long story short, my muscles held up but it compressed my five lowest vertebrae so badly that they got crushed. X-rays and scans showed that they were in really bad shape and I was told that infiltrations wouldn't help and my best chance was to live with it or get surgery through my belly to install plastic sheaths around the vertebrae. For quite some time I needed help getting out of bed, standing or sitting down.

 

Them I heard about Ostarine and sourced some, it healed my back so well that within a few short weeks I was doing much better and even able to carry things again. However, a slight pain remained when running so I tried to avoid doing so. My lower back felt weak, but after what I'd been through that wasn't an issue as I was again valid and mobile. This had been my condition for the past several years.

 

Every so often I am late for work and leave public transit to run to my job. I find that although it happens seldom, maybe every three weeks, it is good exercise and can't hurt too much. Each time I can feel energy depending on supplements used, but always my back feels the same. However this was different yesterday. For the first time I have run feeling as if my back had never been injured, unable to detect any discomfort, sensing not the slightest pain. It felt as if I had a brand new lower back, kind of like when I was young and way before inuring it.

 

Now of course I could be wrong to attribute this to GDF-11. It could be from the Epitalon, however many people have taken it for some time and I never heard a similar report from Epitalon usage. The only other supplement I was taking were a few recent doses of GHK/GHK-Cu and these are unlikely to have brought such significant results. The only substance I have been taking lately that could have produced such benefits is GDF-11, unless it was some form of miracle from unknown causes.

 

In any case I'm super happy that this happened. Not so much because I was actively seeking a cure for this residual discomfort, I wasn't. I am glad because it encourages me that GDF-11 is indeed something that has broad effectiveness in regenerating our body, to the point of actually healing it. To me this means that for the purpose of age reversal, Steve Perry was definitely on to something when he was the first to alert us to its benefits. And also that these potential benefits may be greater than imagined with protocols that are possibly adjusted for different purposes.

 

Of course any such experimentation should be done methodically, with safety precautions and many failsafe measures so as to not endanger life and limb. It is not advisable nor advised to be a DareDevil when experimenting with research chemicals.

 

FWIW

 

DareDevil

[stevegperry]

Hello Longecity,

 

I finally made GDF11Rejuvenation.com into a real website - please check it out when you can. Lots of new stuff on there and your feedback is welcome.  Also, the latest paper reflects a new dosing strategy - everyone, regardless of age, starts at .5 ng.  Trending of key biomarkers is closely watched and most down regulate within a month at 15 ng or less of GDF11. Then they switch to maintenance mode of .1 ng once or twice/week.  Hard to believe such small amounts work, but when you look at the circulating levels of GDF11 and how fast we age, it makes sense....

[echoman]

Thanks Steve for all the work you do ! 

[lost69]

great job indeed

[3dbrainarray]

GDF11(human) mega research updated in Jan 27

[echoman]

Hello folks, any opinions about how long the GDF11 is good for once it has been mixed with the bacteriostatic water ?  I have had mine for about 6 months and do keep it refrigerated.

[aribadabar]

Hello folks, any opinions about how long the GDF11 is good for once it has been mixed with the bacteriostatic water ?  I have had mine for about 6 months and do keep it refrigerated.

 

I was wondering the same so I asked Steve and he stated that his is over 1yr old and still going strong.

[bmarcello]

HI,

What is the expiration date on the GDF11 vial? (the one you have received not-recombined).

Then when recombined (diluted) into bacteriostatic water, keep into the fridge around 2-3C.

By doing that will last the expiration date reported on the GDF11 vial and even more, i used it after 6 months the vial expiation date and Steve shared even after a year the expiration date.

 

ps: as reported previously, don't do by yourself, but join the cohort of GDF11, lot of info shared and helping/supporting each others.

 

ie. what is the dosages are you all taking? what are the supplements? are you exercising heavily/mildly or not at all? are you following the HRV/Pulse/BP trending?... all of this affects the dosages and results.

 

hope will help

[lost69]

what is the dosages are you all taking?

 

very subjective, i use extremely low doses like 0.05ng twice a month and i follow hrv response, not sure i found perfect dose yet but i see difference even from these ultra low doses

 

 

are you exercising heavily/mildly or not at all?

 

medium-heavy swimming 6 times a week, mainly butterfly

 

 

are you following the HRV/Pulse/BP trending?

 

absolutely, i think it is impossible to find right dose without biomarkers

 

 

[stevegperry]

"I think it is impossible to find right dose without biomarkers".  Couldn't have said the above better myself!  Note my new GDF11Rejuvenation.com site has six biomarkers you should take every day.  And there are some good sample trending biomarker spreadsheets up there too.

 

Note the latest dosing regimen is typically 500 pg for a month, take at least a week off and then restart at 100 pg/week. Getting some real "knock it out of the park" biomarkers with this regimen - check out patient 17 on my site when you can.

 

And as far as the age of GDF11 goes, my mega diluted bacteriostatic water mix (1 unit = 5 pg of GDF11), is two years old and still going strong!

[lost69]

steve sorry to bother here but my biomarkers charts got a little mixed up and i m zero expert on these things, BP has 5 trending lines, pulse 3 trending lines, the others are ok.where should i look to correct this?