386 replies to this topic

[Felix375]

Lost69,

 

30 cc = 30ml = 3000 insulin units (from now on will be abbreviated as units)

 

0.3 cc = 0.3 ml = 30 units

 

The syringes are labels with units so I will use units from now on.

 

If you do what Steve says and put 5 micrograms into 30 ml of bac water then:

 

5ng = 3 units

 

1ng = 0.6 units (I know this is hard to judge but close is good enough)

 

0.5 ng = 0.3 units.

 

1 unit = 1.67 ng

Edited by Felix375, 28 May 2017 - 02:37 PM.

[lost69]

thank you very much, i was afraid it was like that and difficult to match 0.5ng on that syringe, anyway little less than half a unit should be close to 0.5ng, right?

 

and then i could add some saline otherwise i could have some gdf11 wasted in the needle

 

 

Edited by lost69, 28 May 2017 - 02:59 PM.

[Felix375]

Lost69,

 

Yes. You would need another bottle of bac water if you're going to add a little more saline. Although the amount left over is so small, I wouldn't worry about it.

[PWAIN]

I believe that 5 micrograms is equivalent to 5000 nano grams. Your dose needs to be less than one five thousandths of what you have. If you are not getting at least 5000 doses, you are taking too much. From the description I've seen, you will be overdosing. Do not do anything until you are completely sure or you could seriously harm yourself. I'm seeing serious risk of overdose here.

My suggestion is to first dilute it in a known quantity of bacteriostatic water, maybe 100ml. Now every ml represents 50ng. Use 1ml of this with say 9ml of bac water to make 10ml in another bottle. Now each ml represents 5ng, take one tenth of a ml as your dose and you have a 0.5ng dose.

[Kaine]

This page might be of help: https://researchpept...tide-calculator

[bmarcello]

@Lost69

1milligram = 1.000 micrograms = 1.000.000 nanograms

 

1syringe unit is the 1st major bar/sign on the syringe, if you count the major bars they are 30 = 0.3ml (some syringes have the small bar/sign that represent the half unit)

Don't use saline water, in the pharmacy ask for the inject-able/sterile water as saline-water contains ions and can damage the peptides.

I don't think you will find 30ml sterile water in Europe (i did not find), I found 1-liter.

 

you can buy this vial and fill with the sterile water

https://www.amazon.c...15R3BPPBFP17RHF

you can use the 0.3ml syringe and take from the 1lt bottle and fill the vial (you will need 167 full syringes of sterile water filled up to 30 units)

if you use 50ml vial with 5microgram GDF11, one unit will be equivalent to 1nanogram/unit (or major syringe bar/sign)

As starting point you can use Steve formula, after few months just 0.5ngrams or half unit every day or other day.

 

Be careful use alcohol to sterilize your hands and external cup vials

for the mix of GDF11, please refer to Steve's info

 

Again, be careful if you do by yourself and I strongly suggest you keep in touch with Steve for the biomarkers and the log file to follow

 

hope will help, i step in as i saw borderline suggestions and tried to avoid issues to you.

 

Edited by bmarcello, 28 May 2017 - 04:58 PM.

[lost69]

i think i ll follow steve instructions  

 

i got 2 X 30ml bacteriostatic water from https://www.bacterio...c-water-uk.com/

i got 0.3cc syringes

 

i ll extract a full 0.3ml/cc syringe of bacterostatic water and inject in gdf11 vial, i ll rotate it slowly to mix up and then take the gdf11 from vial and inject in 30ml bacterostaic water vial.i ll repeat twice to get all gdf11 from vial into 30ml bacterostatic water...all of this pretty easy

i could use some bacteriostatic water from other vial to make more liquid in the syringe and avoid waste of gdf11 in the needle, i ll start this mid june and let you know how it goes tracking with biomarkers

 

 

 

 

 

[bmarcello]

That's good you are following Steve's suggestions.

At the third step in mixing the GDF11, close the vial with its own plug and shake it to take the GDF11 sitting on the plug... it's tiny amount, but you will see tiny amount (less than nanograms) makes the difference.

Do not mix/take water from the other vial and mix in the syringe. Order a small vial 5ml or 10ml empty sterile vials and dilute the 30ml solution: ie. take 2x0.3ml GDF11 solution (2 syringes) and add in the empty vial with 4x0.3ml bact-water (4 syringes) -> reduce concentration by 1/3 or 0.556ngr/unit (or even more to 1/5 that would be needed after >2months), then take the daily doses fro that smaller vial.

 

Store all in the fridge (no freezers), if you travel take with you the smaller vial.

 

Strongly suggest to email to Steve and ask support, he will suggest you the log file and biomarkers... be on the safer side.

 

smaller empty vials

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Edited by bmarcello, 29 May 2017 - 02:43 PM.

[echoman]

For those who may not know, Buckylabs sells GDF11. They have 5ug for $120. I was able to buy it using Paypal. Very easy !  http://www.buckylabs.com/products/

 

I'm not affiliated with Buckylabs, just wanted to pass along the info for anyone still looking for a source.

 

I have been using Steve's protocol for a few weeks and can offer a couple of observations:

 

I used to always run up and down stair cases, but have not done so in at least 15 years.  I quit doing so because I have arthritis and a heart condition. I noticed I was running the staircases at work again

 

without thinking about it. I was shocked. It occurred to me that my joints where not hurting and I wasn't winded.

 

I always have to take a break mowing the lawn. Yesterday I mowed the whole thing without stopping. It had been many years since I was able to do this.

 

I was amazed.

 

I'm not a medical professional or a numbers guy; just sharing my own experiences so far.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PWAIN]

Heads up, needles blunt very easily and punching through rubber stopper will blunt very quickly. Good luck and don't kill yourself.

[PWAIN]

Thanks Echoman just placed my order. They also do some other nice goodies like NMN and FOXO4-DRI peptide and some other interesting stuff.

Edited by PWAIN, 29 May 2017 - 03:26 PM.

[lost69]

For those who may not know, Buckylabs sells GDF11. They have 5ug for $120. I was able to buy it using Paypal. Very easy !  http://www.buckylabs.com/products/

 

I'm not affiliated with Buckylabs, just wanted to pass along the info for anyone still looking for a source.

 

I have been using Steve's protocol for a few weeks and can offer a couple of observations:

 

I used to always run up and down stair cases, but have not done so in at least 15 years.  I quit doing so because I have arthritis and a heart condition. I noticed I was running the staircases at work again

 

without thinking about it. I was shocked. It occurred to me that my joints where not hurting and I wasn't winded.

 

I always have to take a break mowing the lawn. Yesterday I mowed the whole thing without stopping. It had been many years since I was able to do this.

 

I was amazed.

 

I'm not a medical professional or a numbers guy; just sharing my own experiences so far.

 

how old and what dose are you on?how long to first notice effects?

 

i m 47yo, almost 48yo and i wonder if we have anyone this age or little younger on gdf11 and the right dose per age

[bmarcello]

Email to Steve, when part of the tester cohort you can ask/share info.
Regarding your question, yes there are and the dosage is strongly dependent on individual. At your age some started with 12ng/day and remained for a month or more, other individuals after a week already cut the dose and after a month were already at 0.2ng every other day... you need to follow your body messages, that's why it's important to follow Steve's log and keep in touch with him.
Hope will help

Edited by bmarcello, 29 May 2017 - 05:36 PM.

[echoman]

 

For those who may not know, Buckylabs sells GDF11. They have 5ug for $120. I was able to buy it using Paypal. Very easy !  http://www.buckylabs.com/products/

 

I'm not affiliated with Buckylabs, just wanted to pass along the info for anyone still looking for a source.

 

I have been using Steve's protocol for a few weeks and can offer a couple of observations:

 

I used to always run up and down stair cases, but have not done so in at least 15 years.  I quit doing so because I have arthritis and a heart condition. I noticed I was running the staircases at work again

 

without thinking about it. I was shocked. It occurred to me that my joints where not hurting and I wasn't winded.

 

I always have to take a break mowing the lawn. Yesterday I mowed the whole thing without stopping. It had been many years since I was able to do this.

 

I was amazed.

 

I'm not a medical professional or a numbers guy; just sharing my own experiences so far.

 

how old and what dose are you on?how long to first notice effects?

 

i m 47yo, almost 48yo and i wonder if we have anyone this age or little younger on gdf11 and the right dose per age

 

 

Hi lost69,   

 

I started a few weeks ago with Steve's recommended .05ug once a day. I plan on cutting it to .01ug a day once I begin experiencing the side affects of "the tank being full".  I am 50 years old.

[bmarcello]

@Echoman,

Steve's formula is providing ~13ngrams/day as starting point, not the 50ngrams you mentioned. Even if today questioning if could start even with lower dose and going straight to the maintenance dose.

GDF11 is a cytokine peptide and therefore not consumed, it is required less than a nanogram. I guess if the quality of the GDF11 you bought is not good enough (important to have a GMP supplier), as with 50ngrams you should have insomnia/gerd and other side-effects, etc...

 

@all

What I strongly suggest is to join the group, information can be exchanged and helping to avoid mistakes. Also, it is important for the trials development and confirming the results by having hard-data, ie. biomarkers.

As example, seems GDF11 support the recovery of the hearing losses, improves by ~10%, and to monitor that there is an online app "MIMI hearing test", that's for free, just download and signup, take the hearing test before and during the GDF11 and when needed download the charts/results as hard-data.

Also, the HRV is really important, GDF11 should help with that, but to monitor it is needed to buy the Polar hardware (about 90$) and downloading the app and monitoring. With that it is possible to better calibrate/titrate the dosing, etc...

Even better, to do the biomarkers Steve reported in his docs.

Hope will help avoiding mistakes.

 

 

[stevegperry]

Hello Longecity,

 

First of all, thanks Marcello and others for answering the dosing/mixing questions above.  I am inundated with GDF11 emails and am way behind right now...

 

I do have some key GDF11 breakthroughs that I'd like to share with you:

 

1)  A new daily dosing/biomarker spreadsheet with trending graphs for blood pressure, heart rate variability and reaction time - here is a sample: https://drive.google...xdb8W_azq9bKmlg

If you dose GDF11 properly, and you all know that is not easy sometimes, your BP should trend downward, suggesting that GDF11 increases arterial elasticity.  HRV should trend up, suggesting GDF11 improves cardiac repair.  And reaction time should trend down dramatically, suggesting increased neurogenesis.   If these key biomarkers trend the wrong direction, it's time to take a GDF11 holiday and cut your dose in half.

 

2)  If you promise to fill out this trending spreadsheet diligently every day with a MINIMUM of BP, HRV and RT, I will send you one and try to look at it every few days and leave comments.  Email me your birth date, location and your email and I'll send you a link for your own GDF11 dosing/biomarker trending spreadsheet.

 

3)  I updated my paper on GDF11Rejuvenation.com with a new dosing formula.  I really like the paper from Spain stating that 90% of GDF11 is stored in platelets, not serum, and that the circulating levels for a 39 year old are 1355 ng.  So I use this 1355 ng number to derive a formula based on age, which results in lower doses than the old formula.

 

4)  GMP GDF11 is now available from https://www.rndsyste...ein-cf_1958-gmp.  Don't cut corners with something you are injecting into your body.  GMP GDF11 is twice as expensive as the other labs, but well worth it.  It's made under strict sterile conditions and its endotoxin level is practically nil.

 

And lastly, how do we change the title of this thread to "Results of my 3 years of injecting exogenous GDF11".  Yes, I made it to 3 years on GDF11 and I am looking and feeling great!

 

Steve

 

 

[bmarcello]

Impressive new biomarkers from patient #6 available on Steve's website.

Edited by bmarcello, 25 June 2017 - 01:04 PM.

[lost69]

Impressive new biomarkers from patient #6 available on Steve's website.

 

whats the link

 

i have a google drive link with some documents but only 2 patients data, maybe i m looking in the wrong place?

[bmarcello]

https://drive.google...=13&direction=a

[lost69]

it is only few days that i am using gdf11 but i have to report a very clear effect i had from first injection, my sleep cycle has got back to normal.

it is at least 2 decades i cannot get to sleep before 2-3am even using melatonin, this got worse on NR and especially on C60 when i never felt sleepy even after no sleep all night.

after 2-3am i could sleep going to bed but never feeling sleepy

 

now i feel sleepy starting from about 21:30-22pm increasing to the point i cannot stand at midnight and really have to go to bed.sleep quality has also improved very much with very deep sleep.i can also wake up a little earlier but everything is still changing day by day

 

reaction time tests got improved too in the morning while in the evening i get tired and all tests not reliable, today i will go to swim so i ll see if any improvement there too

 

i kept all usual supplements, also NR but stopped C60 for now

Edited by lost69, 30 June 2017 - 12:25 PM.

[bmarcello]

@Lost69,

Thanks for sharing,

Are you using the Steve's daily log file? can you share?

I strongly advice you to do that as dosing is quite important, you might have read that excessive doses are detrimental than beneficial.

It's extremely important to reduce the doses from the starting point, as initially body tolerate quite well but soon will saturate and you need to cut to the maintenance dose.

[lost69]

@Lost69,

Thanks for sharing,

Are you using the Steve's daily log file? can you share?

I strongly advice you to do that as dosing is quite important, you might have read that excessive doses are detrimental than beneficial.

It's extremely important to reduce the doses from the starting point, as initially body tolerate quite well but soon will saturate and you need to cut to the maintenance dose.

 

yes i m following Steve file

[ta5]

I guess this used too high of a dose:

 

Basic Res Cardiol. 2017 Jul;112(4):48. doi: 10.1007/s00395-017-0639-9. Epub 2017 Jun 24.

Exogenous GDF11 induces cardiac and skeletal muscle dysfunction and wasting.

Zimmers TA1,2,3,4,5, Jiang Y6, Wang M6, Liang TW6, et al.

Growth differentiation factor 11 (GDF11), a TGF-beta superfamily member, is highly homologous to myostatin and essential for embryonic patterning and organogenesis. Reports of GDF11 effects on adult tissues are conflicting, with some describing anti-aging and pro-regenerative activities on the heart and skeletal muscle while others opposite or no effects. Herein, we sought to determine the in vivo cardiac and skeletal muscle effects of excess GDF11. Mice were injected with GDF11 secreting cells, an identical model to that used to initially identify the in vivo effects of myostatin. GDF11 exposure in mice induced whole body wasting and profound loss of function in cardiac and skeletal muscle over a 14-day period. Loss of cardiac mass preceded skeletal muscle loss. Cardiac histologic and echocardiographic evaluation demonstrated loss of ventricular muscle wall thickness, decreased cardiomyocyte size, and decreased cardiac function 10 days following initiation of GDF11 exposure. Changes in skeletal muscle after GDF11 exposure were manifest at day 13 and were associated with wasting, decreased fiber size, and reduced strength. Changes in cardiomyocytes and skeletal muscle fibers were associated with activation of SMAD2, the ubiquitin-proteasome pathway and autophagy. Thus, GDF11 over administration in vivo results in cardiac and skeletal muscle loss, dysfunction, and death. Here, serum levels of GDF11 by Western blotting were 1.5-fold increased over controls. Although GDF11 effects in vivo are likely dose, route, and duration dependent, its physiologic changes are similar to myostatin and other Activin receptors ligands. These data support that GDF11, like its other closely related TGF-beta family members, induces loss of cardiac and skeletal muscle mass and function.

PMID: 28647906

 

 

 

Clin Sci (Lond). 2017 Jun 13. pii: CS20171028. doi: 10.1042/CS20171028.

Quantification of Circulating GDF-11 and β2-MG in Aged Patients with Age-related Impairment in Cognitive Function.

Yang R1, Fu S1, Zhao L2, Zhen B2, Ye L1, Niu X1, Li X1, Zhang P2, Bai J3.

GDF-11 has been implicated in reverse effects of aging on the central nervous system of humans. β2-MG has been reported to negatively regulate cognitive. However, there is a lot of controversy about the role of GDF-11 and β2-MG in ageing and cognitive regulation. Objective: To examine the involvement of GDF-11 and β2-MG in the aging process and cognitive dysfunction. Methods: A total of 51 healthy subjects and 41 elderly patients with different degrees of age-related cognitive impairment participated in the study. We measured plasma GDF-11 and β2-MG levels using ELISA and immunoturbidimetry, respectively. The results were statistically analyzed to evaluate the associations between levels of GDF-11 and β2-MG and aging and cognitive impairments. Results: Circulating GDF-11 levels did not decline with age or correlate with aging in healthy Chinese males. We did not detect differences in circulating GDF-11 levels among the healthy advanced age and 4 cognitive impairment groups. β2-MG levels increased with age, but there was no significant difference between healthy elderly males and advanced age males. Increased levels of β2-MG were observed in the dementia group compared with the healthy advanced age group.  Conclusion: Our results suggest that circulating GDF-11 may not exert a protective effect during the aging process or on cognitive function, and β2-MG may play a role in ageing and cognitive impairment. However, it is possible that the relatively small sample size in this study affected the quality of the statistical analysis, and future studies are needed to further validate our findings.

PMID: 28611236

Edited by ta5, 30 June 2017 - 02:21 PM.

[bmarcello]

Correct.

Same as insulin, higher doses can kill while right doses are beneficial...

[PWAIN]

Do we know what dose was used?

[bmarcello]

Doses for what?

[PWAIN]

Doses for what?

Doses used in ta5's quoted research. How much was used that resulted in a negative outcome?

[lost69]

Hello Longecity,

 

First of all, thanks Marcello and others for answering the dosing/mixing questions above.  I am inundated with GDF11 emails and am way behind right now...

 

I do have some key GDF11 breakthroughs that I'd like to share with you:

 

1)  A new daily dosing/biomarker spreadsheet with trending graphs for blood pressure, heart rate variability and reaction time - here is a sample: https://drive.google...xdb8W_azq9bKmlg

If you dose GDF11 properly, and you all know that is not easy sometimes, your BP should trend downward, suggesting that GDF11 increases arterial elasticity.  HRV should trend up, suggesting GDF11 improves cardiac repair.  And reaction time should trend down dramatically, suggesting increased neurogenesis.   If these key biomarkers trend the wrong direction, it's time to take a GDF11 holiday and cut your dose in half.

 

2)  If you promise to fill out this trending spreadsheet diligently every day with a MINIMUM of BP, HRV and RT, I will send you one and try to look at it every few days and leave comments.  Email me your birth date, location and your email and I'll send you a link for your own GDF11 dosing/biomarker trending spreadsheet.

 

3)  I updated my paper on GDF11Rejuvenation.com with a new dosing formula.  I really like the paper from Spain stating that 90% of GDF11 is stored in platelets, not serum, and that the circulating levels for a 39 year old are 1355 ng.  So I use this 1355 ng number to derive a formula based on age, which results in lower doses than the old formula.

 

4)  GMP GDF11 is now available from https://www.rndsyste...ein-cf_1958-gmp.  Don't cut corners with something you are injecting into your body.  GMP GDF11 is twice as expensive as the other labs, but well worth it.  It's made under strict sterile conditions and its endotoxin level is practically nil.

 

And lastly, how do we change the title of this thread to "Results of my 3 years of injecting exogenous GDF11".  Yes, I made it to 3 years on GDF11 and I am looking and feeling great!

 

Steve

 

rndsystems.com only has 10mcg vials, how can we dilute correctly keeping sterile condition?same process using 60ml bacterostatic water?

[bmarcello]

Nice research and explains why people exercising remain healthy and live longer... then injecting GDF11 is much better as giving the right amount that might not be achieved with exercises.

Also, this explain why people that exercise requires lower GDF11 doses.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...?i=1&from=gdf11

[thomasanderson2]

Exercise and GDF11 - I knew it (or at least I suspected it):

When I'd first read Steve's reports of seeing the amplified colors, I thought to myself "hey, I've experienced seeing intense colors - particularly red and green!"

For me, that's typically once aerobic exercise is underway for some time... or in the hours after major exercise.

Related to GDF11? hard to say for sure but seems plausible.

Edited by thomasanderson2, 15 July 2017 - 05:04 PM.