15 replies to this topic

[kmoody]

Following a recent (December 1st, 2015) press release by Methuselah Foundation, I have been receiving many inquiries about the quality and concentration of C60oo across vendors. As a public service, Ichor Therapeutics will analyze C60oo stocks (homemade or purchased from 3rd party vendors) for members of the LongeCity community free of charge.

 

Samples will be collected now through the end of December. Maximum 3 samples per user. Results are expected to be posted sometime in January, depending on the volume of samples received.

 

Instructions:

~1mL samples should be placed in leakproof containers. Samples MUST be labeled LEGIBLY with the following information:

Title ("C60oo sample")

Valid LongeCity username

Vendor (if available)

Lot number (if available)

Date

 

Samples should be shipped to the following address:

Ichor Therapeutics

C60oo Quality Testing Program

2603 US Route 11

LaFayette, NY 13084 USA

 

Data will be provided to each user, and aggregated information will also be provided for the community.

[Kalliste]

Thank you for doing this!

[Turnbuckle]

What will constitute "quality"?

[kmoody]

Minimally we will perform HPLC analysis to determine C60 concentration and interfering peaks. We may do additional testing depending on our availability. I am curious about the concentration problem specifically because we have seen high variance across the samples we have evaluated so far, and dosing is an important variable for deriving meaningful information from any C60-related studies (either anecdotal case studies or controlled studies in a research setting).

[sensei]

Minimally we will perform HPLC analysis to determine C60 concentration and interfering peaks. We may do additional testing depending on our availability. I am curious about the concentration problem specifically because we have seen high variance across the samples we have evaluated so far, and dosing is an important variable for deriving meaningful information from any C60-related studies (either anecdotal case studies or controlled studies in a research setting).

 

 

Can you provide a mean and SD for the samples evaluated so far?  re: concentration per ml of oil

[sensei]

Minimally we will perform HPLC analysis to determine C60 concentration and interfering peaks. We may do additional testing depending on our availability. I am curious about the concentration problem specifically because we have seen high variance across the samples we have evaluated so far, and dosing is an important variable for deriving meaningful information from any C60-related studies (either anecdotal case studies or controlled studies in a research setting).

 

Your point about dosing is only relevant regarding an individual dose.

 

Cumulative doses are easily measured regardless of concentration.  As long as the C60 is completely dissolved the cumulative dose = the amount of C60 dissolved in the olive oil.

 

Take half the olive oil in x days it is easy to determine average daily dose.

 

take all the olive oil on x days = same thing.

 

This refers to home-brew as only home-brewers can be assured of the actual amount of c60 used.

Edited by sensei, 09 December 2015 - 04:49 AM.

[kmoody]

 

Minimally we will perform HPLC analysis to determine C60 concentration and interfering peaks. We may do additional testing depending on our availability. I am curious about the concentration problem specifically because we have seen high variance across the samples we have evaluated so far, and dosing is an important variable for deriving meaningful information from any C60-related studies (either anecdotal case studies or controlled studies in a research setting).

 

 

Can you provide a mean and SD for the samples evaluated so far?  re: concentration per ml of oil

 

We have only looked at a few from 3rd parties, but the good ones are on the order of 0.5mg/mL +/- 0.15mg/mL. The bad ones are all over the place. We have incoming samples from several different sources (hopefully including the LongeCity community). I will release a comprehensive summary once we have done a proper sampling.

 

 

Minimally we will perform HPLC analysis to determine C60 concentration and interfering peaks. We may do additional testing depending on our availability. I am curious about the concentration problem specifically because we have seen high variance across the samples we have evaluated so far, and dosing is an important variable for deriving meaningful information from any C60-related studies (either anecdotal case studies or controlled studies in a research setting).

 

Your point about dosing is only relevant regarding an individual dose.

 

Cumulative doses are easily measured regardless of concentration.  As long as the C60 is completely dissolved the cumulative dose = the amount of C60 dissolved in the olive oil.

 

Take half the olive oil in x days it is easy to determine average daily dose.

 

take all the olive oil on x days = same thing.

 

This refers to home-brew as only home-brewers can be assured of the actual amount of c60 used.

 

You are correct. However, the Baati et al prep that most people probably follow is a 50mg to 10mL mix. To feel very confident you would need to use quite a bit less than the maximum concentration the olive oil can support for it all to go into solution. This is certainly doable of course (and if you do this, certainly no need for the service we're providing).

 

However, based on inquiries and feedback I have been receiving, there are many members of the LongeCity community that buy off-the-shelf and want to know the concentration they are injesting. Further, there are also home-brewers that want to make maximally concentrated C60oo so they do not need to ingest as much (rather than select a concentration below the limit). I have also had several parties from this community contact me regarding their own methods for solubilizing C60, and a desire to know upper concentration limits as they refine their processes.

 

So sure, you're completely right. I'm not offering this because everyone can make use of it. I am simply responding to the numerous requests by the community (mostly to me directly) asking for this to be done. This community has been a strong supporter of my work, so I'm just doing a pro bono service to meet its need.

[sensei]

 

 

You are correct. However, the Baati et al prep that most people probably follow is a 50mg to 10mL mix. .

 

 

I think you meant.  50 mg to 100 ml ??

 

VW Commercial prep is 45 mg per 50 ml 

 

Max Saturation of C60 in OO is .9 mg per ml 

 

Hence the ratio of 1 gram C60 to 1200 ml oil seen in use by many members on this forum.

[ambivalent]

Minimally we will perform HPLC analysis to determine C60 concentration and interfering peaks. We may do additional testing depending on our availability. I am curious about the concentration problem specifically because we have seen high variance across the samples we have evaluated so far, and dosing is an important variable for deriving meaningful information from any C60-related studies (either anecdotal case studies or controlled studies in a research setting).

 

Hi,

 

It's great that you're doing this for the c60 community, thank you. My main worry is one of contaminates, whether some vendors have chosen inexpensive low grade c60 from suppliers. This would also be a useful service for the home brewers too; it would verify they are getting the purity of c60 they're paying for.

Edited by ambivalent, 09 December 2015 - 02:41 PM.

[kmoody]

 

 

 

You are correct. However, the Baati et al prep that most people probably follow is a 50mg to 10mL mix. .

 

 

I think you meant.  50 mg to 100 ml ??

 

VW Commercial prep is 45 mg per 50 ml 

 

Max Saturation of C60 in OO is .9 mg per ml 

 

Hence the ratio of 1 gram C60 to 1200 ml oil seen in use by many members on this forum.

 

The methods for C60-olive oil solution preparation in the Baati et al paper indicate 50mg of C60 dissolved in 10mL of olive oil by stirring for 2 weeks at ambient temperature in the dark. Not 50mg in 100mL. This is far higher than the solubility limit, which is why there are centrifugation (to remove bulk residual C60) and filtering steps after preparation. 

 

 

Minimally we will perform HPLC analysis to determine C60 concentration and interfering peaks. We may do additional testing depending on our availability. I am curious about the concentration problem specifically because we have seen high variance across the samples we have evaluated so far, and dosing is an important variable for deriving meaningful information from any C60-related studies (either anecdotal case studies or controlled studies in a research setting).

 

Hi,

 

It's great that you're doing this for the c60 community, thank you. My main worry is one of contaminates, whether some vendors have chosen inexpensive low grade c60 from suppliers. This would also be a useful service for the home brewers too; it would verify they are getting the purity of c60 they paying for.

 

Agreed. We are debating which sorts of tests we might want to bring in house. This is an active area of discussion with our quality assurance director. The tricky part is that screening for contaminants is much more involved than simply making a good product in the first place. If we do decide to include contaminant screening I will make sure to notify everyone. The question really is just the best way to do that.

[ambivalent]

ok, that's great. It will be fantastic if you can do that. Thanks again.

Edited by ambivalent, 09 December 2015 - 02:31 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

You are correct. However, the Baati et al prep that most people probably follow is a 50mg to 10mL mix. 

 

I don't know of anyone doing this, as it would be quite wasteful.

[Invariant]

Thanks kmoody! Much appreciated.

 

Where can we find the methusela press release? Couldn't find it on their website.

 

Is there reason to worry about the safety of pre-made C60oo, or is it just about concentration of C60 in these products?

 

Also, can we get the names of the companies whose products were tested, along with the results?

Edited by Invariant, 11 December 2015 - 09:07 PM.

[kmoody]

Thanks kmoody! Much appreciated.

 

Where can we find the methusela press release? Couldn't find it on their website.

 

Is there reason to worry about the safety of pre-made C60oo, or is it just about concentration of C60 in these products?

 

Also, can we get the names of the companies whose products were tested, along with the results?

I've asked MF for a link to the release. It may have just been one of their newsletters. I'm checking on that for you.

 

Technically lots of reasons to worry about the safety of pre-made C60oo since C60 has not been tested extensively for toxicity before. As compared to home-made sutff, I do not have reason to think 3rd party product has a different safety profile, though it is difficult to screen for all possible types of contamination in either so I do not have data one way or another at the moment. The concentration variance is worrying though. If they cannot even get that right, that is suggestive that other things have been overlooked as well.

 

Once we have run the samples we are sent, we will provide a compiled list of companies and products tested for the community.

[kmoody]

Per request

https://www.fightagi...herapeutics.php

[password]

kmoody.  Will send you a Christmas gift on Monday.  It'll include 2 of each sample with at leach 1 ml per tube.
 
Sample "A"

• Source:  Carbon 60 olive oil
• Concentration:  0.8mg/ml
• Purchased:  12/5/2015
• Website:  carbon60oliveoil.com
• Purity:  99.95%

Sample "B"

• Source: Vaughter Wellness
• Concentration: 0.9mg/ml
• Purchased: 11/9/2015
• Website: owndoc.com
• Purity: 99.95%
• Comment:  From Europe, took 1 month to get to California

Sample "C"

• Source: Homemade
• Concentration: 0.6mg/ml
• Purchased: 11/19/2015
• Website: sesres.com
• Purity: 99.90%
• Comment: SES C60 stirred into Kirkland organic EVOO until dissolved.  I messed up a few things, lost ~10% of C60 and was stirring in plastic container for 1 week.

Will send you the same information with the samples.

 

Merry Christmas everyone!