30 replies to this topic

[lemon_]

hi,

 

 

does anyone know any drugs that lower 

noradrenaline? 

 

i took atemoxitne and it caused all my problems. it made me not socially etc...

 

 

 

 

[Doc Psychoillogical]

My most basic knowledge and successful items would be;

L-theanine

Magnesium

Lithium orotate

...

From the list above a QUALITY Magnesium should calm those nerves and set you straight.(Avoid Mag Oxide)

 

But these are,

IMO & IME statements

[Heinsbeans]

How long have you been taking Strattera it for? Cymbalta initially made me anti-social as well but after several weeks, I returned closer to my old normal self.

Edited by Heinsbeans, 19 December 2015 - 05:55 AM.

[PalmAnita]

Atomoxetine doesn't really lower norepinephrine, it's a reuptake inhibitor and as such it will increase the NE effects.

 

Clonidine works by agonizing NE auto receptors and effectively reduces the amount of released norepinephrine. A good anxiolytic and non-addictive sleep aid.

[iseethelight]

I would avoid blaming any single neurotransmitter for your issues. I've learned this the hard way. 

[PalmAnita]

Yeah, of course it isn't as easy and well.. "if you got issues" is a bit indifferent, to say the least.

 

But there are indeed conditions where lowering NE is of benefit. Panic attacks, anxiety for example. After effects of psychostimulants. Insomnia. PTSD.

[Galaxyshock]

Dopamine beta-hydroxylase inhibitors

[PalmAnita]

^ This is the interesting part about disulfiram, yes. It seems to increase dopamine levels in favor of less norepinephrine. If it just wouldn't have this alcohol metabolism blocking property, not that I'm a regular drinker at all, but I don't need to get panic reactions from some alcohol in a pasta sauce or something. Could make an interesting ADHD med.

[noot_in_the_sky]

Dopamine beta-hydroxylase inhibitors

 

Do you have any natural supps for it?

[YimYam]

I would avoid blaming any single neurotransmitter for your issues. I've learned this the hard way. 

 

Thank you for this reminder. I may PM you when I have enough functionality to ask you a few questions on how to address more than one neurotransmitter group, if thats ok? 

[PalmAnita]

Or just write them down here

[Galaxyshock]

 

Dopamine beta-hydroxylase inhibitors

 

Do you have any natural supps for it?

 

 

St. John's Wort does that, I think Ginseng too.

[noot_in_the_sky]

Thanks Galaxyshock.

 

I also found this other one Nepicastat, but  I don't know if it has the same effect on alcohol.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

 

By TheProblemSolved 

 

I've been sent by god to bring relief to all of your symptoms lol. But seriously . I know what's going on with you and I will help you and I can guarantee you, you will feel %100 better. Just bear with me. I also suffered from this condition in the past. But its all gone now. I will tell you what's going on and how you're going to fix it.

 

 

I read all of your previous posts and blood test results. In fact, you are the reason I created an account here. I would like to help people that are suffering from this condition.

 

First off all let's see what's going on and why.

 

Symptoms related to high noradrenaline:

 

*ED

*Excessive wind

*Insomnia

*Anxiety

*Inflammation

 

 

Symptoms related to low dopamine:

*Difficulty concentrating

*weak orgasms

*low libido

*lack of motivation in life

 

What can show in your blood tests:

*Slightly low testosterone for your age

*Slightly elevated cortisol levels

 

 

So why are you having these symptoms? As you know noradrenaline controls fight or flight system of your body. when your noradrenaline levels are constantly high, it will put your body in a survival mode. In survival mode, your digestion and ability to have sex are shut down and all of your blood is diverted to your muscles and your heart.

 

Anyway. you probably know all this so I will move onto how you developed this condition.

 

You, more than likely, put your body through excessive stress at some point and this increased your body's "dopamine beta hydroxylase" activity to create more noradrenaline out of your dopamine reserves. This stress could have been physical(straneous activity with little to no rest and a low calorie diet with multi-vitamins) or emotional. Doesn't matter because your body doesn't care. it responds the same way. So during this period, you simply became "copper-dominant". Honestly, I think your problem happened when you were trying to shed a few pounds while taking multi-vitamins. Why do I think this? Because, when you're heavily training on a low carb diet, your body consumes more zinc than you will ever need to put up with the stress you're putting through it and usually multi-vitamins have waaaaay more copper than you would ever need. Your body usually maintains a good Zinc/copper ration. However, you heavily altered this ratio by doing whatever you did.It might not have been your multi-vitamins. It could simply have been you becoming zinc deficcient at some point.

 

Why is your zinc/copper ration is important?

 

Dopamine beta hydroxylase(DBH) is activated by copper. So when you are high on copper and low on zinc, there is a constant DBH activation.

 

Why are you going through this condition?

 

Because , too much DBH activation leads to elevated noradrenaline levels. Constant high noradrenaline levels up-regulates your noradrenaline receptors, so you become noradrenaline insensitive. So your body asks for more noradrenaline. This leads to more DBH activation. Constant high noradrenaline levels will also strip your body off your zinc and vitamin D. When you lack these, your body also won't be able to elevate your testosterone symptoms properly.

 

Common mistakes:

 

*Using dopamine reuptake inhibitors: These will temporarily alleviate your symptoms but your extra dopamine will get converted to noradrenaline anyway so you don't want to take this way.

*Beta blockers: You dont want to block your noradrenaline receptors, you want to down regulate them naturally(by reducing your noradrenaline levels). simply blocking them will not down regulate them so you will have to take them forever if you want the benefits(if any)

*Trying supplements to promote dopamine or testosterone: These will not work, you probably already know this.

*Using HRT/TRTs to alleviate symptoms

*Taking SSRIs to help with your symptoms: this wont work!! especially when you're dopamine defficient! your will become Seratonin dominant so quickly! meaning no orgasms, no zest in life!

*Taking herbal adrenal stimulants: Aswhagandha and all. You don't need these. you probably took them before with no success anyway

 

Related conditions:

*your elevated noradrenaline levels will also elevate your cortisol levels. so you might experience elevated cortisol levels as well.

*your thyroid function maybe affected by this. Simply because elevated cortisol/noradrenaline levels put your body in a catabolic mode. so your thyroid naturally slows down your metabolism to prevent further catabolic action. Your thyroid is actually helping you here. so don't ever take thyroid pills. As you get better your T3/T4 levels will go up.

 

 

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

 

The answer you have been looking for is here!

 

HOW DO WE FIX IT!?!?!

 

First of all, it will not be easy but you will eventually get better. Some symptoms will vanish within a week, the others will take longer.

 

The right way to go is to make your body, Noradrenaline/Cortisol sensitive again. How? By Inhibiting your DBH enzyme and your ACTH receptors!! How do you do that?

 

*You need to become "ZINC DOMINANT AGAIN"!!! To do so you will need 0.25mg-0.40mg zinc per lbs daily!!!

*Also to boost your dopamine and testosterone production you will need lots of lots of vitamin D! like 10.000 IU a day!

*You will also have to directly lower your noradrenaline levels! Herbal supplements or SSRI will not work! Large doses of "Taurine" is what you need! 5g-8g a day!

*You also need to lower your ACTH and eventually cortisol . To do so , you need to take large doses of "phosphatidylserine". 600mg to 1gr a day!

*Avoid excessive vitamin C as it promotes noradrenaline

*Completely avoid copper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Increase your caloric intake by at least 500 a day!

 

 

AND FINALLY!

 

The magic drug you've been looking for! The drug that will actually directly block DBH! The enzyme that converts dopamine to noradrenaline. Your number one enemy! It is called "Disulfiram". Commercially known as Antabuse. People take it because it inhibits the enzyme that hydrolyzes alcohol. so when they drink they get panic attack like symptoms. Anyway. This drug also significantly inhibits DBH! So you will eventually have higher dopamine and lower noradrenaline levels! I suggest you take 5mg-8mg per lbs daily! keep in mind that you can NOT drink on this drug at all!!!!!!!!!

 

So your cure as a started should look like this:

(Do this for 2 months)

Daily:

*60mg zinc

*800mg phosphatidylserine

*6g Taurine

*10.000 IU Vitamin D

*1000 mg Disulfiram

 

 

 

Prognosis:

 

Unfortunately our bodies are prone to this condition so we need to maintain a healthy state. Once you feel good, get another blood test done. If you're happy with the results. Stop taking disulfiram. You should probably lower your zinc and taurine intake too.

 

Your maintenance dosage should look like this:

 

*30mg zinc

*400mg phosphatidylserine

*3g Taurine

*5.000 IU Vitamin D.

 

I would say you will feel your old self within 3 months. But everybody is different. Good luck and let me know about your process!

[MetaphasicSystems]

Magnesium Gycinate.
Did you just tell people to take 60mg daily of supplemental zinc?

[Doc Psychoillogical]

It's a "Quoted" post.No...

Definitely do not take 60 mg Elemental Zinc daily.

[Turnbuckle]

Guanfacine in essential hypertension: effect on blood pressure, plasma noradrenaline concentration and plasma renin activity.

 

 

Guanfacine induced a decrease in plasma noradrenaline concentration and plasma renin activity concomitant with a fall in blood pressure and heart rate in both the acute and the chronic study.

 

 

[lemon_]

People going through opiate withdrawal have too much noraderline

[MetaphasicSystems]

It's a "Quoted" post.No...
Definitely do not take 60 mg Elemental Zinc daily.

Good. Because that dude is an idiot.

[Heinsbeans]

Taurine seems interesting, I might give it a go for my depression/anxiety and other cognitive issues. People have recently started discussing the benefits of taurine for Isotretinoin induced long-term damage in acne.org forum.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

Taurine seems interesting, I might give it a go for my depression/anxiety and other cognitive issues. People have recently started discussing the benefits of taurine for Isotretinoin induced long-term damage in acne.org forum.

 

Supplemental (oral) taurine actually induces anxiety whereas research shows, only Injected taurine reduces anxiety.

 

Effects of taurine on anxiety-like and locomotor behavior of mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19239151

 

Alternatively Magnesium Taurate would be more effective, Contains Magnesium bound to amino acid, taurine.Added bonus Magnesium slightly hinders catecholamine release such as adrenaline, and Mag defiency causes anxiety to a certain degree and is very common in this day and age.

Edited by Mr. Psychillogical, 10 January 2016 - 09:49 AM.

[NG_F]

 

 

AND FINALLY!

 

The magic drug you've been looking for! The drug that will actually directly block DBH! The enzyme that converts dopamine to noradrenaline. Your number one enemy! It is called "Disulfiram". Commercially known as Antabuse. People take it because it inhibits the enzyme that hydrolyzes alcohol. so when they drink they get panic attack like symptoms. Anyway. This drug also significantly inhibits DBH! So you will eventually have higher dopamine and lower noradrenaline levels! I suggest you take 5mg-8mg per lbs daily! keep in mind that you can NOT drink on this drug at all!!!!!!!!!

 

So your cure as a started should look like this:

(Do this for 2 months)

Daily:

*60mg zinc

*800mg phosphatidylserine

*6g Taurine

*10.000 IU Vitamin D

*1000 mg Disulfiram

 

 

 

Prognosis:

 

Unfortunately our bodies are prone to this condition so we need to maintain a healthy state. Once you feel good, get another blood test done. If you're happy with the results. Stop taking disulfiram. You should probably lower your zinc and taurine intake too.

 

Your maintenance dosage should look like this:

 

*30mg zinc

*400mg phosphatidylserine

*3g Taurine

*5.000 IU Vitamin D.

 

I would say you will feel your old self within 3 months. But everybody is different. Good luck and let me know about your process!

 

 

 

 

I checked here in Canada and  I don't think that Disulfiram is available. Can you recommend something similar? Also would the enzyme inhibitor stop crucial functioning levels of Norepinephrine for Athletic power and stamina and for Fight or flight needs like running from a Bear, Dog etc... lol  

[Doc Psychoillogical]

Alternatively, you could look into Catuaba, CoQ10, and/or Green Tea Extract w/ Theanine. All of which act on Dopamine, and clinically shown to be effective but do not on the same enzyme as Disulfiram, unfortunately...

[Flex]

 

Do you have any natural supps for it?

St. John's Wort does that, I think Ginseng too.

 

 

Gardenia Jasminoides

Monoamine Oxidase and Dopamine β-Hydroxylase Inhibitors from the Fruits of Gardenia jasminoides

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3792221/

Edited by Flex, 18 January 2016 - 11:04 PM.

[Flex]

From the list above a QUALITY Magnesium should calm those nerves and set you straight.(Avoid Mag Oxide)

 

Look into magnesium-L-threonate.

The bioavailabilty of Mag is limited in contrast to threonate and perhaps the sulfate form.

I guess those are the references IIRC:

 

Elevation of brain magnesium prevents synaptic loss and reverses cognitive deficits in Alzheimer’s disease mouse model

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4172865/

 

https://www.reddit.c...sium_threonate/
 

Edited by Flex, 18 January 2016 - 11:08 PM.

[lemon_]

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/4058659

[noot_in_the_sky]

Great finding Flex 

 

Some details from the study provided by Flex

 

With this study we can say that,

 

Combo for DBH inhibition:

Protocatechuic acid + Urosolic Acid

 

 

Combo for  MAO-B inhibition:

6'-O-trans-p-coumaroylgeniposide + 3,5-di-hydroxy-1,7-bis(4-hydroxyphenyl) heptane + Geniposide

 

 

 

Extract Name                =  Effect                                                         | Amounts

=======================================================================

Protocatechuic acid       =Strong inhibitor MAO-B and DBH                  | IC50 300 μmol/L and 334 μmol/L

                                                   Weak inhibitor MAO-A                        | 2.41 mmol/L

===========================================================================================

                                                                                                              |

Geniposide                    =elective MAO-B inhibitor                                | 223 μmol/L

===========================================================================================

                                                                                                              |

6'-O-trans-p-

coumaroylgeniposide     = Selective MAO-B inhibitor > deprenyl         |127μmol/L

===========================================================================================

                                                                                                              |

3,5-di-hydroxy-1,7                                                                                 |

-bis(4-hydroxyphenyl)                                                                            |

heptane                           =  Strong inhibitor MAO-B                             |196 μmol/L

                                             Modest for MAO-A                                   |400 μmol/L

                                             Weak for DBH                                          |941 μmol/L

===========================================================================================

                                                                                                              |

Ursolic Acid                     =  Strong Inhibitor DBH                                 |214 μmol/L

                                              Weak inhibitor MAO-B                            |780 μmol/L

                                               No MAO                                                 |

===========================================================================================

 

 

 

 

Abstract

This research was designed to determine what components of Gardenia jasminoides play a major role in inhibiting the enzymes related antidepressant activity of this plant. In our previous research, the ethyl acetate fraction of G. jasminosides fruits inhibited the activities of both monoamine oxidase-A (MAO-A) and monoamine oxidase-B (MAO-B), and oral administration of the ethanolic extract slightly increased serotonin concentrations in the brain tissues of rats and decreased MAO-B activity. In addition, we found through in vitro screening test that the ethyl acetate fraction showed modest inhibitory activity on dopamine-β hydroxylase (DBH). The bioassay-guided fractionation led to the isolation of five bio-active compounds, protocatechuic acid (1), geniposide (2), 6'-O-trans-p-coumaroylgeniposide (3), 3,5-d-ihydroxy-1,7-bis (4-hydroxyphenyl) heptanes (4), and ursolic acid (5), from the ethyl acetate fraction of G. jasminoides fruits. The isolated compounds showed different inhibitory potentials against MAO-A, -B, and DBH. Protocatechuic acid showed potent inhibition against MAO-B (IC50 300 μmol/L) and DBH (334 μmol/L), exhibiting weak MAO-A inhibition (2.41 mmol/L). Two iridoid glycosides, geniposide (223 μmol/L) and 6'-O-trans-p-coumaroylgeniposide (127μmol/L), were selective MAO-B inhibitor. Especially, 6'-O-trans-p-coumaroylgeniposide exhibited more selective MAO-B inhibition than deprenyl, well-known MAO-B inhibitor for the treatment of early-stage Parkinson’s disease. The inhibitory activity of 3,5-di-hydroxy-1,7-bis (4-hydroxyphenyl) heptane was strong for MAO-B (196 μmol/L), modest for MAO-A (400 μmol/L), and weak for DBH (941 μmol/L). Ursolic acid exhibited significant inhibition of DBH (214 μmol/L), weak inhibition of MAO-B (780 μmol/L), and no inhibition against MAO-A. Consequently, G. jasminoides fruits are considerable for development of biofunctional food materials for the combination treatment of depression and neurodegenerative disorders.

 

Edited by noot_in_the_sky, 26 January 2016 - 03:40 PM.

[lemon_]

Its like saying Atemoxtine (NRI) long-term will decreases NA receptors. It does not that decrease NA receptors. It will increase them some what (or something got to do with auto receptors)

 

Its like antipsychotics, after stopping antipsychotics, you feel awful. no dopamine.

 

 

[noot_in_the_sky]

I have been trying Ursolic Acid  for about 2 wks now.  I got it in powder form, because the pills require too many pills per day.   The powder is 25% Ursolic Acid (Loquat extract) and I take ~425mg 3x per day.

 

What I first notice, is that I was able to sleep during the day, and it was a very deep sleep.  I can normally sleep 30min to 1hr during the day, but with this stuff I slept 3 to 4hrs.  This effect seems to has diminish a little bit.

 

A side effect I notice is that after a few hours I felt shaky.  As I was grabbing a spoon with my finger tips I felt as if my hand was shaking; I look at my hand closely, and I wasn't able to see it shake even though I was still feeling the same way.  This effect has pass as well, lasting only about a wk.  My reasoning is that Ursolic Acid may be a reversible inhibitor, and I got small spike of adrenaline.

 

I'm using Selegiline(1.25mg/d) & Rasagiline(.5mg/d), so they may have an effect on the strength of Ursolic Acid.

 

Side note:

Ursolic acid has an anabolic effect by working with IGF-1.

[medievil]

 

Symptoms related to high noradrenaline:

 

*ED

*Excessive wind

*Insomnia

*Anxiety

*Inflammation

 

 

Symptoms related to low dopamine:

*Difficulty concentrating

*weak orgasms

*low libido

*lack of motivation in life

 

Hold it there buddy, those symptions could relate to a plethoria of things, besides from that its highly individual, for example d2 is implicated in reward related decission making, in other words motivation but that doesnt mean low da is low motivation as its entirely dependent on the differened da receptors, sensivitys, brainareas, communication btw differened brain areas and so forth, high da can just do the exact opposite as well.

 

And then theres the prefrontal cortex etc.. 

 

Your list is extremely simplistic, what episode of dr phil did you get this from?