12 replies to this topic

[iseethelight]

I was going to add picamilon to my stack and then I saw this: http://www.raps.org/...ilers-Directly/

WTF?

It's all over google. Apparently some harvard prof and some senator decide to take matters into their own hands and push the FDA to ban a good substance. Well that's how it goes anyways. Big pharma behind this? You can't find it at any major retailers right now.

[pro-v]

It's still available but not in capsules or sold as a supplement

[PalmAnita]

In Germany they 'banned' it too, when I recently ordered some nootropics, they took half of them out and put a notice in that these were considered 'medicine' and have to be destroyed ... sigh.

[Baten]

Why just picamilon? Isn't it relatively harmless? Compared to, say, phenibut ..

[Logic]

Thx for posting this iseethelight.

When the FDA bans something I get very interested in it.

Considering the effects of Niacin on NAD+; I wonder if this isnt a highly effective way of increasing NAD+ and all that i downstream of it (SIRT, PARP etc.) in the brain?

 

More research reqd as usual.

[PalmAnita]

When the FDA bans something I get very interested in it.

 

There's some truth in that ...

 

Have too few experiences with Picamilon (thanks, German customs) to really know about it but seeing that it gets metabolized to GABA this probably means that overdosing on it could be fatal, like the barbiturates and unlike the benzodiazepines which are allosteric modulators, but I could be wrong. 

[noot_in_the_sky]

FYI, she is Democratic Senator from Missouri Claire McCaskill and no it wasn't the FDA who did it it was her, all by herself.

 

It's interesting she added here contact information on the letter to the FDA:

(202) 224-0185

caitlin_warner@aging.senate.gov

matt_lawernce@aging.senate.gov

 

Although going all 4chan on her will not be good right now.  Apparently here argument was that Picamilon wasn't a dietary supplement, but she never mention it couldn't been a research chemical, or been be imported as a medicine. 

 

An other intresting thing is the she said in her last letter to the FDA,

"To date, the FDA, however, has failed to prevent the inclusion of this ingredient in dietary supplements.  In October, I requested that the FDA take appropriate steps to determine whether picamilon is appropriate for sale, and to remove it from store shelves if it is not.  Despite my repeated requests, the FDA has failed to produce any response to my inquiry and remains silent on whether products containing picamilon should be recalled or removed from sale in dietary supplements.

 

As one of the leading retailers offering dietary supplements to senior citizens and other American consumers, Amazon plays a pivotal role in determining which supplements these consumers use and trust.  For this reason, and given FDA's failure to respond, I request that you voluntarily remove any and all products containing picamilon that you may carry from your stores and from your website. While I undertand that some retailers have takne reasonable steps to remove these products, in the absence of the FDA action with regard to this incredient, I feel it necessary to reach out and make this request to ensure that these products are entirely removed from shelves.  In addition, I also request that you review your policies for ensuring that all dietary supplements that you carry are safe for consumption and comply with all applicable laws."

 

Some things to take note on:

"FDA, however, has failed to preven the inclusion of this ingredient,"  

----So she expect them to ban picamilon.

 

"I requested that the FDA take appropriate steps to determine whether picamilon is appropriate for sale,"  

----Now she is asking for the FDA to investigate, and to make up their mind on their own.

 

"Despite my repeated requests, the FDA has failed to produce any response... whether products containing picamilon should be recalled or removed from sale in dietary supplements."

----This is nice you see because she uses a nice mind trick here,  by saying "recalled or removed form sale" she give the illusion of choice.  Even though both options are the same.

 

"I request that you voluntarily remove any and all products containing picamilon..."

----So this was all on her and the retailer been affraid.

------ One more side note, after news of State of Oregon v. General Nutrition Corporation, 15CV28591 was publicizes its share drop 21%, http://www.bloomberg...ent-ingredients

 

 

Also to answer your question about big pharma Claire McCaskill got a total of $106,058 from Express Scripts, her second biggest donor. (http://www.opensecre...2&cid=N00027694)

 

 

With all this it makes you wonder what's the point of donating money on longevity research, when it can easily be affected by 1 senator.  Perhaps we should be giving money to a senator to affect policy and increase funds in favor of longevity research. After all, there is reason why all big companies do it, because it works.

 

 

[Logic]

With all this it makes you wonder what's the point of donating money on longevity research, when it can easily be affected by 1 senator.  Perhaps we should be giving money to a senator to affect policy and increase funds in favor of longevity research. After all, there is reason why all big companies do it, because it works.

 

 

 Great idea!

We should contact Longecity top management right away!

[iseethelight]

 

FYI, she is Democratic Senator from Missouri Claire McCaskill and no it wasn't the FDA who did it it was her, all by herself.

......

 

 

You got it wrong. Here's how most supplements posing threats to big pharma are banned. The corporate boys in suit fund some bias research about a supplement substance that seems more effective than their drugs showing that it's dangerous or doesn't qualify as supplement, and then they lobby congress to ban it. No senator ever does anything like this on their own accord, by themselves. Since when did politicians care about our health like that? She was lobbied. The FDA is taking its time as usually because government processes take longer than necessary but they will ban it eventually from the articles I've read.

 

The same they did with piracetam. Now piracetam cannot be obtained from any big reliable retailers that can be held accountable. One has to get from smaller online bulk powder retailers of questionable quality and one-man shows. I've gotten man bad batches of piracetam before causing me to just cease using it. 

Edited by iseethelight, 24 December 2015 - 08:49 PM.

[the_apollo]

 

When the FDA bans something I get very interested in it.

 

There's some truth in that ...

 

Have too few experiences with Picamilon (thanks, German customs) to really know about it but seeing that it gets metabolized to GABA this probably means that overdosing on it could be fatal, like the barbiturates and unlike the benzodiazepines which are allosteric modulators, but I could be wrong. 

 

 

Or it will just cause an increase in metabolism of GABA along with activating GABA-receptors more than usual.

Shouldn't be more harmful than using an GAD-inhibitor/ an GABA transminase inhibitor.

Though i am not a researcher nor am i a drrr, so it's just my best guestimation.

[noot_in_the_sky]

 

 

FYI, she is Democratic Senator from Missouri Claire McCaskill and no it wasn't the FDA who did it it was her, all by herself.

......

 

 

You got it wrong. Here's how most supplements posing threats to big pharma are banned. The corporate boys in suit fund some bias research about a supplement substance that seems more effective than their drugs showing that it's dangerous or doesn't qualify as supplement, and then they lobby congress to ban it. No senator ever does anything like this on their own accord, by themselves. Since when did politicians care about our health like that? She was lobbied. The FDA is taking its time as usually because government processes take longer than necessary but they will ban it eventually from the articles I've read.

 

The same they did with piracetam. Now piracetam cannot be obtained from any big reliable retailers that can be held accountable. One has to get from smaller online bulk powder retailers of questionable quality and one-man shows. I've gotten man bad batches of piracetam before causing me to just cease using it. 

 

 

 

The reason I said, "all by herself," was because I what I got from the first post was that the FDA was been blame for picamilon ban, and this wasn't the case.  I do agree with you about her been lobbied, which is why I look up her top donors and commented on the fact that her second highest donor was Express Script, and why  I mention that instead of using fund raisers only for research we should also do fund raisers to lobby.

 

I also agree that the FDA will be taking its sweat time to give an answer, well perhaps now, with the lawsuit and the media attention it will do so faster.

 

Also like you this event remind me of the ban on piracetam some years ago, and because of this we -everyone on this forum, the nootropics and longevity community- shall keep an eye on the lawsuit.  Let's place a Google Alert.

 

In the end, I'm not sure all this is entirely bad, since by taking picamilon from big retailer it is harder for people with little knowledge about noots to misuse it.  Even people with some knowledge ends up making big mistakes just look at the sunifiram thread, which by the way I can't seem to find it any more on Ceretropics, Ebay, PowderCity, and NewStarNootropics.

 

 

 Here is the complaint summited by Oregon to the courts; I also upload the pdf (   general_nutrition_corporation_complaint.pdf   533.87KB   0 downloads ) in case someone isn't able to get it. 

http://www.doj.state...n_complaint.pdf

 

 

 The latest news is that GNC wants to move the case to federal courts in Oregon and the Attorney General wants to keep it in the State.  

(http://www.naturalpr...tate-court.aspx)

Edited by noot_in_the_sky, 24 December 2015 - 10:24 PM.

[noot_in_the_sky]

Ellen Rosenblum is the Attorney General doing the law suit, and she is running for reelection next year.

[Logic]

I'm South African.  Milk Thistle and Melatonin recently 'banned'.

 

You guy do know that a petition with enough signatures on it gets a govt official fired?

The # of signatures depends on their level IIRC.