7 replies to this topic

[iseethelight]

This could be good for those of you with  histamine intolerance issues such as allergies, but bad for low histamine folks like myself. Be careful not to blame your allergies on histamine, low histamine folks have major food allergies too.

I started taking l glutamine a month ago and I realized that since then I haven't gone out much, have stopped working on my business and just want to chill all day. It's like I have no urgency to get anything done even though I'm on the verge of total financial disaster unless I do something. Low and behold, this could be a result of low histamine which kills my motivation for life.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1472109

 

 

 

L-glutamine prevents the L-histidine-mediated enhancement of hydrogen peroxide-induced cytotoxicity.

Sestili P1, Giacomoni PU, Cattabeni F, Cantoni O.

Author information

 

Abstract

Results presented in this study demonstrate that L-glutamine, a competitive inhibitor of L-histidine uptake, inhibits in a concentration-dependent fashion the L-histidine-mediated enhancement of H2O2-induced cytotoxicity. L-Glutamine also prevents the induction of DNA double strand breaks (DSB) but does not affect the enhancing effect of L-histidine on DNA single strand break induction by H2O2. Taken together, these data demonstrate that L-histidine, in order to allow the formation of DNA double strand breakage and increase the toxicity elicited by the oxidant, has to enter the cell. In addition, these results indicate that the enhancement of DNA single strand breakage is a consequence of the action of the amino acid at the extracellular level and/or outer surface of the plasma membrane and does not appear related to the mechanism whereby L-histidine increases the cytotoxic response to H2O2. The latter mechanism very likely involves the formation of DNA DSB.

PMID:   1472109   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[autumnbloom]

My b on the late reply but yea, as someone with super low histamine (13 on a blood test when the normal is 40-70) and the overmethylation that comes with that, this makes a lot of sense. I took some glutamine last year and remember feeling super funky and lethargic like you describe, that was before I knew about the histamine thing though. The other day I found some bone gelatin powder stuff and in the last couple days Ive noticed I've been a lot more anxious, unnecessarily sentimental, and my chemical sensitivities got worse. Finally made the connection tonight.
Wasn't expecting any of that that but it makes sense as that stuff has a ton of glutamine too.

If you're actually reading this—What have you found to help raise histamine? I'm learning it's waaay harder to raise it than just lower it with an antihistamine or whatever.
I'm aware of the overmethylation protocol of Zinc, B12, Folate, Niacin but it hasn't been the long term solution I was expecting. And actually niacin seemed to deplete me more after initially helping. I also tried histidine but apparently it does more to stabilize histamine, people actually take it for allergies.
Anyway, lemme know

Edited by autumnbloom, 01 August 2016 - 10:51 AM.

[iseethelight]

My b on the late reply but yea, as someone with super low histamine (13 on a blood test when the normal is 40-70) and the overmethylation that comes with that, this makes a lot of sense. I took some glutamine last year and remember feeling super funky and lethargic like you describe, that was before I knew about the histamine thing though. The other day I found some bone gelatin powder stuff and in the last couple days Ive noticed I've been a lot more anxious, unnecessarily sentimental, and my chemical sensitivities got worse. Finally made the connection tonight.
Wasn't expecting any of that that but it makes sense as that stuff has a ton of glutamine too.

If you're actually reading this—What have you found to help raise histamine? I'm learning it's waaay harder to raise it than just lower it with an antihistamine or whatever.
I'm aware of the overmethylation protocol of Zinc, B12, Folate, Niacin but it hasn't been the long term solution I was expecting. And actually niacin seemed to deplete me more after initially helping. I also tried histidine but apparently it does more to stabilize histamine, people actually take it for allergies.
Anyway, lemme know

Unfortunately, I;m still fighting this battle with no clear victory in sight. Every time I feel like I've gotten closer, I return to baseline or worse within a couple of days. I'm currently experimenting with blocking the BMHT pathway to slow down my methylation. I'm using dmg, too early to tell if it's working yet. 

I've tried folic acid and b12 but they made me worse. That's because they are potent methyl donors so they may raise histamine temporarily but will actually decrease it through methylation. 

[autumnbloom]

Unfortunately, I;m still fighting this battle with no clear victory in sight. Every time I feel like I've gotten closer, I return to baseline or worse within a couple of days. I'm currently experimenting with blocking the BMHT pathway to slow down my methylation. I'm using dmg, too early to tell if it's working yet. 

I've tried folic acid and b12 but they made me worse. That's because they are potent methyl donors so they may raise histamine temporarily but will actually decrease it through methylation. 

 

 

Dang, this thing is tough huh.  I don't know much about the BMHT pathway or DMG but I know I've seen DMG on the avoid list for overmethylators- the M stands for methyl.    

Also were you taking methyl-B vitamins?  Those can definitely mess you up but the ones without it (Niacin, Folinic Acid, Cyanocobalamin, etc) will help quench methyl.  But you're right, they don't seem to be enough for histamine probs.

Have you looked into copper toxicity at all?  There's a big connection with histamine where copper can lower it and almost all overmethylators have too much.  I'm pretty sure that's what's going on for me- my mom fits the symptom list to a T for copper overload- racey mind, paranoid, emotionally volatile, and she had post-partum depression which has a lot to do with copper since copper rises with estrogen.  

So I take Zinc to help with the copper thing and that can also help raise histamine.

Probably the biggest thing I've found though is to just try to eat as many high histamine foods as I can, so fermented/aged stuff like cheese, kefir, sauerkraut, and kombucha.  Kombucha is especially amazing, somehow it takes almost all my anxiety away within a few hours and gives me tons of "creative energy," I call it.  That stuff also has probiotics and enzymes and things so not exactly sure what it is about it that makes it so good.  I'm starting to brew it at home though and also found a supplement (Pronatura brand) that gives me the same effect- way cheaper than buying a $3 or $4 bottle everyday.

Anyway I wrote too much, I'm curious about your journey with this thing though, I don't really know anyone with this so it's cool to find someone!

[sativa]

I guess if you are trying to increase histamine, there are certain foods and supplements (that act as antihistamines) you would want to minimise or *avoid*.

Here is a list of high histamine foods, along with insight into the histamine system. I think there is also a list of antihistamine substances:

https://selfhacked.c...mine_Rich_Foods

[autumnbloom]

I guess if you are trying to increase histamine, there are certain foods and supplements (that act as antihistamines) you would want to minimise or *avoid*.

Here is a list of high histamine foods, along with insight into the histamine system. I think there is also a list of antihistamine substances:

https://selfhacked.c...mine_Rich_Foods

Yup, it's a conscious effort to eat and take the right stuff when you have as much of an imbalance as me.  Any sort of antihistamine is gonna screw me, but also things you wouldn't expect like reishi mushrooms, herbs like Ashwaganda, this glutamine/ gelatin thing, Maca, Histidine, Beta-Alanine, Pantethine...  Navigating through all this just to keep me histamine levels at a point where I actually want to go outside is a daily challenge.  At least I'm aware of what's doing what now though, whereas before I just had no clue and every day was a new layer of feeling like shit :/

[sativa]

Ah, regarding low histamine I think olive leaf extract would be something to look into. Olive leaf increases orexin (via GLP-1) which is the main wakefulness hormone. Histamine and orexin are closely linked.

Brain orexin/hypocretin neurons stimulate wakefulness, alertness, eating, reward-seeking and healthy glucose balance.

Whenever we’re tired or fatigued, orexin is suppressed.

It’s not like Orexin is one of the many systems that stimulate wakefulness. It’s BY FAR the most significant stimulator of wakefulness (and it could be the only system).

Histamine is also involved, but orexin activates the histamine system.

Here is more info on orexin:
https://selfhacked.c...igue-naturally/

Edited by sativa, 02 August 2016 - 10:30 PM.

[iseethelight]

 

 

 

Dang, this thing is tough huh.  I don't know much about the BMHT pathway or DMG but I know I've seen DMG on the avoid list for overmethylators- the M stands for methyl.    

Also were you taking methyl-B vitamins?  Those can definitely mess you up but the ones without it (Niacin, Folinic Acid, Cyanocobalamin, etc) will help quench methyl.  But you're right, they don't seem to be enough for histamine probs.

Have you looked into copper toxicity at all?  There's a big connection with histamine where copper can lower it and almost all overmethylators have too much.  I'm pretty sure that's what's going on for me- my mom fits the symptom list to a T for copper overload- racey mind, paranoid, emotionally volatile, and she had post-partum depression which has a lot to do with copper since copper rises with estrogen.  

So I take Zinc to help with the copper thing and that can also help raise histamine.

Probably the biggest thing I've found though is to just try to eat as many high histamine foods as I can, so fermented/aged stuff like cheese, kefir, sauerkraut, and kombucha.  Kombucha is especially amazing, somehow it takes almost all my anxiety away within a few hours and gives me tons of "creative energy," I call it.  That stuff also has probiotics and enzymes and things so not exactly sure what it is about it that makes it so good.  I'm starting to brew it at home though and also found a supplement (Pronatura brand) that gives me the same effect- way cheaper than buying a $3 or $4 bottle everyday.

Anyway I wrote too much, I'm curious about your journey with this thing though, I don't really know anyone with this so it's cool to find someone!

 

 

DMG (dimethylglycine) is a potent inhibitor of the BHMT pathway which is the shortut pathway for converting homocysteine to methionine. Although it's a methyl donor, it stimulates the MTR pathway which is the main but slower methylation pathway. You still want some way to  convert hcy to methionine otherwise you will endanger your health with the accumulation of high homocysteine. 

 

I can tolerate the non-methylated b vitamins except for folic acid. Both folic acid and methylfolate make me feel like crap. My research has shown that folate is serotonin reuptake promoter so it increases serotonin at first but then depletes it. 

 

Niacin actually reduces histamine as its main function. The flush itself has nothing to do with histamine release but is caused by release prostaglandins. Niacin raises histamine sharply but then depletes the histamine storage. Leaving you with lower histamine that you had before. Niacinamide is a better choice for raising histamine. But it makes me feel weird because it also raises serotonin. Low histamine folks already have too much SE.

 

This histadelia/histapenia, undermethylation\overmethylation thing is so confusing because most of the info on the net is incorrect and may cause more harm than good. One is better off doing his own trials and see how he responds using the info available and  build his own regimen. That's what's I've been working on. Every now and then I will hit a few days where I think I got it only to return to baseline without changing the regimen that made feel great.

 

If I ever find a cure, I will gladly share it on here. .

 

Honestly right now I'm not even sure whether histamine is my real issue. I know for sure it's methylation and neurotransmitters related. Those of us who are overmethylated have excess serotonin/ dopamine / NE, so histamine helps regulate that by lowering the excess. I think that's where the histamine comes into play. 

 

You know what's even more bizarre? We may actually be undermethylated and high histamine. The symptoms aren't that different. That's what got me more confused. I've felt horrible after eating fermented foods and drinking alcohols as well..

Edited by iseethelight, 02 August 2016 - 11:54 PM.