33 replies to this topic

[SuicidalTraveler]

Hello fellow community,

you can call me Jack. I am new here and happy to exchange informations with you guys in the future.

I'll be a lot outside soon and I've experienced some premature aging with 19 already. I guess it's because I sat most of the time in front of a window. So to prevent further damage I should use a sun cream.

However there's this thing that sun can do more damage than usual if you don't reapply the sun cream every 2 hours. I am not able to do that because of personal and financial reasons.

Therefore I thought about an oral protection which can support the body to deal with the UV radiation and oxidative stress from other factors.

I'd love to just swallow a pill without being worried that my premature aging accelerates.

What are your thoughts on that?

Thanks a lot!

[Darryl]

Add greens to tomato-based pasta sauce, with a bit of fat to improve carotenoid absorption, and you're golden (rather than red).

 

Lycopene, the red pigment of tomatoes and watermelon, is IMO the single most important direct antioxidant for photoprotection. It has the highest skin concentration among carotenoids and ranks high as a physical quencher of UV generated singlet oxygen.

 

Stahl W et al. 2001. Dietary tomato paste protects against ultraviolet light–induced erythema in humans. The Journal of nutrition, 131(5), pp.1449-1451.

Rizwan M et al. 2011. Tomato paste rich in lycopene protects against cutaneous photodamage in humans in vivo: a randomized controlled trial. British Journal of Dermatology, 164(1), pp.154-162.

 

β-carotene is the second most important carotenoid in skin. Greens have more than carrots. Note all the carotenoids compete for absorption, which may account higher relative risk seen with β-carotene supplementation and smoker's lung cancer in a couple of important trials from the 90s.

 

Mathews-Roth MM et al. 1972. A clinical trial of the effects of oral beta-carotene on the responses of human skin to solar radiation. Journal of Investigative Dermatology, 59(4), pp.349-353.

Wolf C et al. 1988. Do oral carotenoids protect human skin against ultraviolet erythema, psoralen phototoxicity, and ultraviolet-induced DNA damage?. Journal of investigative dermatology, 90(1), pp.55-57.

Garmyn M et al. 1995. Effect of beta‐carotene supplementation on the human sunburn reaction. Experimental dermatology, 4(2), pp.104-111.

Gollnick HPM et al. 1996. Systemic beta carotene plus topical UV-sunscreen are an optimal protection against harmful effects of natural UV-sunlight: results of the Berlin-Eilath study. EJD. European journal of dermatology, 6(3), pp.200-205.

Lee J et al. 2000. Carotenoid supplementation reduces erythema in human skin after simulated solar radiation exposure. Experimental Biology and Medicine, 223(2), pp.170-174.

Stahl W et al. 2000. Carotenoids and carotenoids plus vitamin E protect against ultraviolet light–induced erythema in humans. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 71(3), pp.795-798.

Heinrich U et al. 2003. Supplementation with β-carotene or a similar amount of mixed carotenoids protects humans from UV-induced erythema. The Journal of nutrition, 133(1), pp.98-101.

 

Lutein, found in kale & other greens, is invaluable for retinal UV protection, but isn't terribly important in skin..Zeaxanthin is comparably effective in the eyes, but doses from food are rather low. Rounding out the cryptoxanthins is asthaxanthin sourced from red pond scum, which is the most potent singlet oxygen quencher but supplements have small doses that aren't cost effective compared to a dietary mix of lycopene, β-carotene and lutein from tomato sauces and greens.

 

Palombo P et al. 2007. Beneficial long-term effects of combined oral/topical antioxidant treatment with the carotenoids lutein and zeaxanthin on human skin: a double-blind, placebo-controlled study. Skin pharmacology and physiology, 20(4), pp.199-210.

 

Cocoa flavanols likely work by another mechanism, upregulating endogenous antioxidant responses and inhibiting inflammatory ones.

 

Heinrich U et al. 2006. Long-term ingestion of high flavanol cocoa provides photoprotection against UV-induced erythema and improves skin condition in women. The Journal of nutrition, 136(6), pp.1565-1569.

 

I'd caution against either high-dose riboflavin or iron supplements if you're prone to burns. The first is a photosensitizer, the later, when poorly liganded, propagates singlet oxygen damage via the Fenton reaction.

 

 

Edited by Darryl, 14 February 2016 - 04:35 AM.

[Terran]

Thank you Darryl for your informative post.

 

Is supplementing with both lycopene and astaxanthin may be overkill for photoprotection since they are both potent singlet oxygen quenchers? I already take 5 mg of astaxanthin everyday at the moment hence my question.

 

EDIT : I should have read in detail Darryl's post that did mention astaxanthin!

 

 

Edited by Terran, 15 February 2016 - 05:05 AM.

[Logic]

Polypodium Leucotomos is a herb commonly referred to as either 'Fernblock' or 'Heliocare' and is marketed as being a skin health supplement for sensitive skin. Most of the studies on Polypodium Leucotomos do note that it appears to have a variety of protective effects against UV(B) induced skin cell radiation, which confers protective effects agains the sun despite absorbing the radiation (something like sunscreen would prevent radiation from being absorbed, and confer protection by omitting the radiation)

https://examine.com/...ium-leucotomos/

 

In a second experiment in vivo we show that, the topical application of PLE to the skin of hairless albino mice (Skh-1) significantly diminished the mast cell infiltrate as well as the number of blood vessels triggered by chronic ultraviolet B (UVB) irradiation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10928072

 

More interesting from a longevity point of view, in the same study:

 

...an extract of the fern Polypodium leucotomos (PLE) to partially inhibit the production of cytokines showing a Th1 pattern (IL-2, IFN-gamma and TNF-alpha) in human PHA-stimulated peripheral blood mononuclear cells. The percentage of inhibition was 24% for IL-2, 72% for INF-gamma and 53% for TNF-alpha. With regard to Th2 cytokines, the addition of PLE resulted in a significant increase (33%) in IL-10 production. Surprisingly, the production of the inflammatory cytokine IL-6 was completely abolished (100% inhibition) by PLE at all doses tested.

[Darryl]

Is supplementing with both lycopene and astaxanthin may be overkill for photoprotection since they are both potent singlet oxygen quenchers? I already take 5 mg of astaxanthin everyday at the moment hence my question.

 

Astaxanthin is perhaps a 30-60% more potent physical quencher than lycopene in hydrophilic solutions, though less potent in lipophillic solution. However a 6 oz (170 g) can of tomato paste (or tomato sauce equivalent) will have 50 mg lycopene. Locally, I can get the paste (or more often equivalent pasta sauce) for less than half the cost of equivalent quenching activity of astaxanthin in capsules, with perhaps better absorption if the sauce includes oil, and I have to eat something.

 

Nishida Y et al. 2007. Quenching activities of common hydrophilic and lipophilic antioxidants against singlet oxygen using chemiluminescence detection system. Carotenoid Science, 11(6), pp.16-20.

[Terran]

Thank you for your quick reply!

 

I think I will keep taking my astaxanthin pills but I will also try to add more tomatoes into my mostly plant-based diet (I learned a lot from you and Timar!!). If I cannot, I will simply resort to add a 10-15 mg lycopene pill in the hope that taking both carotenoids will have a real cumulative effect regarding photoprotection.

 

[Logic]

Thank you for your quick reply!

 

I think I will keep taking my astaxanthin pills but I will also try to add more tomatoes into my mostly plant-based diet (I learned a lot from you and Timar!!). If I cannot, I will simply resort to add a 10-15 mg lycopene pill in the hope that taking both carotenoids will have a real cumulative effect regarding photoprotection.

 

Tomatoes wont work IIRC they need to be cooked to release their lycopene or to make it bioavailable. or something.

[Terran]

Yes, you are right Logic! Cooking tomatoes make lycopene up to 4 times more bioavailable IIRC. I mostly eat raw tomatoes for my salads but I will try to add more of them in cooked dishes.  Since I learned that lycopene is a fat-soluble nutrient, I will make sure to add enough EVOO in my salads to somehow mitigate its poorer bioavailability in raw tomatoes.

[SuicidalTraveler]

Thank you guys for your replies. They are very helpful and provide a lot of useful informations. I've been going through the internet and found out about Tiron but it hasn't been approved by the FDA yet.

Is there anything similar to Tiron?

http://m.medicalxpre...ger-longer.html

"Tiron which has the chemical composition 4,5-Dihydroxy-1,3-benzenedisulfonic acid disodium salt monohydrate was revealed to provide 100% protection against mitochondrial DNA damage."

"Tiron offered 100% protection against UVA radiation and 100% protection against oxidative stress."

[Darryl]

There are a number of mitochondria targeted antioxidants. A good primer is:

 

Gruber J et al. 2013. Mitochondria-targeted antioxidants and metabolic modulators as pharmacological interventions to slow ageing.Biotechnology advances, 31(5), pp.563-592.

 

The most easily obtained mitochondrial targeted antioxidant is ergothioneine. Eat mushrooms for that, especially those of genus Pleurotus.

 

However, I suspect the important thing about 4,5-dihydroxy-1,3-benzenedisulfonate (tiron) is not that it's mitochondria targeted, but that its an iron chelator. From Newcastle group's paper:

 

Oyewole AO et al. 2014. Comparing the effects of mitochondrial targeted and localized antioxidants with cellular antioxidants in human skin cells exposed to UVA and hydrogen peroxide. The FASEB Journal, 28(1), pp.485-494.

 

4,5-dihydroxy-1,3-benzenedisulfonic acid (tiron), which chelates iron and other metals (17) and exhibits ROS scavenging properties

.

17. Krishna CM et al. 1992. The catecholic metal sequestering agent 1, 2-dihydroxybenzene-3, 5-disulfonate confers protection against oxidative cell damage. Archives of Biochemistry and Biophysics, 294(1), pp.98-106.

 

 

Iron plays an important role of UVA-generated singlet oxygen chain reactions, and topical iron chelators have proven effective against photoaging in hairless mice.

 

Vile GF and Tyrrell RM, 1995. UVA radiation-induced oxidative damage to lipids and proteins in vitro and in human skin fibroblasts is dependent on iron and singlet oxygen. Free Radical Biology and Medicine, 18(4), pp.721-730.

Kitazawa M et al 2006. Iron chelators may help prevent photoaging. Journal of cosmetic dermatology, 5(3), pp.210-217.

 

However, if you're planning on procuring and coping with the side effects of Ferriprox (deferiprone) or Exjade (deferasirox) just to avoid a sunburn, it may be time to reconsider priorities.

[Kalliste]

Ferrotoxicity is kind of a big deal, to manage it blood donation seems like an excellent choice. They will give you your iron levels each time if they are professional. 

[SuicidalTraveler]

Thanks a lot guys.

[SuicidalTraveler]

So basically Ferriprox can protect me from UVA?

[Logic]

Thank you guys for your replies. They are very helpful and provide a lot of useful informations. I've been going through the internet and found out about Tiron but it hasn't been approved by the FDA yet.

Is there anything similar to Tiron?

http://m.medicalxpre...ger-longer.html

"Tiron which has the chemical composition 4,5-Dihydroxy-1,3-benzenedisulfonic acid disodium salt monohydrate was revealed to provide 100% protection against mitochondrial DNA damage."

"Tiron offered 100% protection against UVA radiation and 100% protection against oxidative stress."

 

 

Tiron  is mentioned in many threads here:

https://cse.google.c...b=0&gsc.q=Tiron

 

But never seems to get past the 'Very Interesting' stage.
It needs to get into some rats IMHO.
AgeVivo, Steve H, Michael..?

[SuicidalTraveler]

Mhm, people should give Tiron more attention. I'd love to have it in my hands.

[SuicidalTraveler]

Still looking for oral alternatives.

[Logic]

There's more Tiron info, including all the in vivo studies I could find, here:

http://www.longecity...ed-antioxidant/

 

SuicidalTraveler's very keen on a group buy, so I will look into it and post there too.



 

[Dorian Grey]

Still looking for oral alternatives.

 

IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) to the rescue!  

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19389306

 

Effect of inositol hexaphosphate on the development of UVB-induced skin tumors in SKH1 hairless mice

 

"Inositol hexaphosphate (IP6) is a naturally occurring polyphosphorylated carbohydrate that is abundant in many plants and in various high-fiber foods, such as cereals and legumes. IP6 has a striking, broad-spectrum anticancer activity in various in vitro and animal models, in which it interferes with key pathways in malignancy to inhibit cell proliferation, cell-cycle progression, metastasis, invasion, and angiogenesis and to induce apoptosis. In this study, we investigated the protective effects of IP6 in drinking water on the incidence of UVB-induced skin cancer in the SKH1 (Crl: SKH1-hr) mouse model. One group of 15 mice received 2% IP6 in drinking water and UVB exposure, and the other group (n = 15) received UVB exposure only. All mice in both groups were fed an IP6-deficient diet (AIN 76A). The treatment group started receiving 2% IP6 in the drinking water 3 d before irradiation. Mice were irradiated 3 times each week, starting at a dose of 1.5 kJ/m2, with weekly increases in increments of 1.5 kJ/m2 to a final dose of 7.5 kJ/m2. Tumor formation was monitored until the week 31. IP6 in drinking water significantly decreased tumor incidence by 5-fold and tumor multiplicity by 4-fold. These results show that IP6 has an antiphotocarcinogenic effect and can protect against UVB-induced tumor formation."

 

----------------------

 

And at ten cents a cap (from Jarrow), such a bargin!  

Edited by synesthesia, 20 March 2016 - 10:41 PM.

[SuicidalTraveler]

Summer is there and we could really need something for proper protection. It's more important to protect myself from UVA than UVB.

Any more suggestions?

[pamojja]

Summer is there and we could really need something for proper protection. It's more important to protect myself from UVA than UVB.

Any more suggestions?

 

Only got my #1 experience. Started with Pauling's Therapy 7 years ago because of severe PAD. Gradually added more and more supplements, like above mentioned xanthophylls and carotenes.

 

Now got rid of any debilitating symptoms of my PAD. And as a nice side effect: for the last 4 winters had vacations each 6 weeks at a south Indian beach sunbathing proximately 3 hours each day without any sunburns or sunscreens.

 

However, can't be sure which exact combination or synergy has caused this.

[Dorian Grey]

OK, interesting update...  I've been laying out in the sun, trying to boost my Vitamin-D since the sun just passed the 50 degree level at solar noon in my area (San Diego CA).  I do this every year, and always spend 30 minutes baking each side (front and back) about once a week.  Noticed I always have burned just a bit at this exposure level, which turns into a golden tan about a week later.  

 

I've been taking IP6 for several years, but have always taken it in the evening until this year when I started taking in in the morning.  What a surprise to find I am no longer burning at all during my sun baths this year.  Interestingly, I'm also not tanning.  

 

At first I thought perhaps it was simply a bit early in the season, but the sun is now high in the sky at solar noon (1:PM daylight saving time).  I'm lying out from 12:30 to 1:30 under cloudless skys, not getting the slightest bit pink, and have developed no tan lines. I assume I'm still making Vitamin-D, but the change in my solar experience has been truly remarkable.  

 

Can IP6 really work as an internal sunscreen?  I shall keep testing this as the sun gets higher in the sky towards June.  I suppose I could also do a study cycling off the IP6 to see if I burn, but I hate to go without my Fountain of Youth supplement for even a week, and though I never worried about the minor burn I used to get, would rather not get burned if I don't have to.  

 

What will really be interesting is whether or not I can sunbathe regularly all summer without getting a substantial tan.  I actually enjoy the bronze look, and will miss this.  

 

I'll report back in a month or so with an update.  

Edited by synesthesia, 21 April 2016 - 04:12 AM.

[zorba990]

OK, interesting update... I've been laying out in the sun, trying to boost my Vitamin-D since the sun just passed the 50 degree level at solar noon in my area (San Diego CA). I do this every year, and always spend 30 minutes baking each side (front and back). Noticed I always have burned just a bit at this exposure level, which turns into a golden tan about a week later.

I've been taking IP6 for several years, but have always taken it in the evening until this year when I started taking in in the morning. What a surprise to find I am no longer burning at all during my sun baths this year. Interestingly, I'm also not tanning.

At first I thought perhaps it was simply a bit early in the season, but the sun is now high in the sky at solar noon (1:PM daylight saving time). I'm lying out from 12:30 to 1:30 under cloudless skys, not getting the slightest bit pink, and have developed no tan lines. I assume I'm still making Vitamin-D, but the change in my solar experience has been truly remarkable.

Can IP6 really work as an internal sunscreen? I shall keep testing this as the sun gets higher in the sky towards June. I suppose I could also do a study cycling off the IP6 to see if I burn, but I hate to go without my Fountain of Youth supplement for even a week, and though I never worried about the minor burn I used to get, would rather not get burned if I don't have to.

What will really be interesting is whether or not I can sunbathe regularly all summer without getting a substantial tan. I actually enjoy the bronze look, and will miss this.

I'll report back in a month or so with an update.

Can you share your IP6 dose? thanks

[Dorian Grey]

I've been taking one 500mg cap of Jarrow IP6 daily for years.  Used to take it in the evening, 3-4 hours after dinner before bed.  

 

I got to thinking perhaps I still may have had some food left in my stomach from dinner and switched to morning dosing this Winter.  I take several empty stomach supps every morning, spreading them out in case they might effect each other if taken together.  SAM-e upon waking with 12 ounces plain water,  and Vitamin-C with B-Complex about an hour later.  After my shower, I take my IP6 with another 12 ounces plain water.  I'm ready for breakfast about 30-60 minutes later.  

 

On weekends, I typically sleep in and skip breakfast, so I don't get to my IP6 till around 10 to 11 AM, just an hour and a half before my sunbathing.  Apparently this has made all the difference from taking it before bed.  I've read the body shuttles iron around and does most of its red blood cell generation at night as we sleep, so perhaps this burns through a one-a-day dose taken in the evening.  Serum levels of IP6 are supposed to peak at around 60-90 minutes after taking it on an empty stomach (with a full glass of plain water), and it was just coincidence this is when I head out for my hour in the sun.  

 

Don't know how long the effect might last (apparently not all day/24 hours), but I've been out 4 times this month and still am white as a ghost, so short term at least, I seem to be bullet proof to both UVA and UVB for several hours after taking just one 500mg IP6.  Very important to take it on a very empty stomach with a full glass of plain water.  I drink filtered water, so it is largely de-mineralized, which may also make a difference.  

Edited by synesthesia, 21 April 2016 - 04:59 AM.

[Never_Ending]

I've been taking one 500mg cap of Jarrow IP6 daily for years.  Used to take it in the evening, 3-4 hours after dinner before bed.  

 

I got to thinking perhaps I still may have had some food left in my stomach from dinner and switched to morning dosing this Winter.  I take several empty stomach supps every morning, spreading them out in case they might effect each other if taken together.  SAM-e upon waking with 12 ounces plain water,  and Vitamin-C with B-Complex about an hour later.  After my shower, I take my IP6 with another 12 ounces plain water.  I'm ready for breakfast about 30-60 minutes later.  

 

 

That's quite interesting. Also about the SAM-e... seems relatively expensive from what I saw and is sometimes used for depression related symptoms, but not sure if there's other uses too?

[Dorian Grey]

SAM-e has been found to be as good as Celebrex and NSAIDs at fixing joint pain, and seems to work well for lower back pain as well...  

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC387830/

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12019049

 

SAM-e isn't cheap and is also quite perishable and reactive, so it is best to take in on an empty stomach, separate from other supps.  I don't know what it's reactive with so I take it alone, half an hour before my other empty stomach supps in the morning.  

 

It's funny, my girlfriend doesn't believe in supplements much, but when she runs out of SAM-e she says she notices it within a couple of days with her arthritis.  

 

SAM-e is also very good for the liver, & I'm rather fond of beer in the evening.  I've noticed it seems to make my liver rather bullet proof, and I can over-do things on occasion and still wake up feeling bright as a button the next morning.  Magical stuff!  

Edited by synesthesia, 29 April 2016 - 03:52 PM.

[SuicidalTraveler]

OK, interesting update... I've been laying out in the sun, trying to boost my Vitamin-D since the sun just passed the 50 degree level at solar noon in my area (San Diego CA). I do this every year, and always spend 30 minutes baking each side (front and back) about once a week. Noticed I always have burned just a bit at this exposure level, which turns into a golden tan about a week later.

I've been taking IP6 for several years, but have always taken it in the evening until this year when I started taking in in the morning. What a surprise to find I am no longer burning at all during my sun baths this year. Interestingly, I'm also not tanning.

At first I thought perhaps it was simply a bit early in the season, but the sun is now high in the sky at solar noon (1:PM daylight saving time). I'm lying out from 12:30 to 1:30 under cloudless skys, not getting the slightest bit pink, and have developed no tan lines. I assume I'm still making Vitamin-D, but the change in my solar experience has been truly remarkable.

Can IP6 really work as an internal sunscreen? I shall keep testing this as the sun gets higher in the sky towards June. I suppose I could also do a study cycling off the IP6 to see if I burn, but I hate to go without my Fountain of Youth supplement for even a week, and though I never worried about the minor burn I used to get, would rather not get burned if I don't have to.

What will really be interesting is whether or not I can sunbathe regularly all summer without getting a substantial tan. I actually enjoy the bronze look, and will miss this.

I'll report back in a month or so with an update.

How's it going?

[yucca06]

Astaxhantin at 12mg ed works like a 8 sunscreen indice for me.

With glisodin or idebenone added , it's even better.

[treonsverdery]

Oral aspirin as well as ibuprofen are possibly SPF 2.4  here is a medline reference. https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/7165335   I do not know the effect of say putting ibuprofen powder at a cream sunscreen.  does it go to 70+2.4 or spf 168?!   They work on different mechanisms.

 

"

Arch Dermatol Res. 1982;272(3-4):263-7.

Reduction of the erythema response to ultraviolet light by nonsteroidal antiinflammatory agents.

Edwards EK Jr, Horwitz SN, Frost P.

Abstract

The effect of three nonsteroidal antiinflammatory agents (NSAIA) on ultraviolet B (UV-B)-induced erythema was studied in normal human volunteers. Aspirin, indomethacin, and ibuprofen were administered orally 2 h before exposure to UV-B from fluorescent sunlamps and at 4-h intervals for a total of four doses. The minimal dose of light to produce erythema (MED) was determined for each subject with and without drugs. There was a 240% increase in the mean MED when the NSAIA were given. NSAIA, given orally, can increase the threshold for UV-B-induced erythema when administered near the time of irradiation. "

 

Edited by treonsverdery, 01 December 2016 - 07:25 PM.

[TheFountain]

There are a number of mitochondria targeted antioxidants. 

Isn't ALCAR one of the best Mitochondrial Anti-oxidants?

[MikeDC]

Life extension magazine had an article on Astaxanthin's protective effect on UV damage to the skin. They referenced an article that showed suppression of MMP1 was the mechanism.

There is an NAD World paper that showed Sirt1 activity modulates the MMP1 expression. Higher NAD+ will activate SIRT1 and suppress MMP1 activity.

I believe NAD+ precursors can provide the best protection against UV damage to the skin.  higher NAD+ will also provide more efficient DNA repair from UV damage and 

prevention of skin cancer. Some NR users reported that their age spot disappears. 

Edited by MikeDC, 24 April 2018 - 04:02 PM.