132 replies to this topic

[Sleepdealer]

Do you know when you'll get the results?

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

Tomorrow.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

Yo, today I received SPECT results. 

 

- Decreased activity in Right Prefrontal Cortex

- Decreased activity in left brain hemishpere.

[Sleepdealer]

That is intriguing. So what are the doctor saying? Any clue where this could be going for you?

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

I'm waiting for consultation with my neurologist on monday.

[jack black]

 

Yo, today I received SPECT results. 

 

- Decreased activity in Right Prefrontal Cortex

- Decreased activity in left brain hemishpere.

 

 

Interesting. Do they do them in Poland?

 

According to controversial Dr Amen:

 

Hypofrontality, decreased perfusion or activity in the prefrontal cortex, is another important SPECT finding that is often helpful in understanding and targeting treatment in individual patients. Hypofrontality is associated with a negative response to serotonergic medication in depression [30] and clozapine in schizophrenia [42] as well as with predicting relapse in alcoholics [43], improved response to acetylcholine-esterase inhibitors for memory and behavior in AD [44, 45], predicting a poor response to ketamine in fibromyalgia patients [46] and improved response to stimulants in patients with ADHD symptoms during a concentration challenge [47]. Hypofrontality is also associated with antisocial symptoms, impulsive behaviors, and murder [48, 49] as well as with completed suicide, which is often an impulsive act [50]. When hypofrontality is present in depressed patients, it is important to be vigilant in their care, as well as involve family support, as they may be less likely to respond to typical antidepressant medications and they may not have the cognitive resources to follow through with recommendations.

Given its broad range of involvement in different types of psychiatric illness hypofrontality, like other findings, will not give a specific psychiatric diagnosis, but it allows the clinician to know the underlying pathophysiology of the patient’s presenting problem and can help explain issues with cognitive impairment or behavioral problems.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3149839/

 

not sure about the left hemisphere thing.

please keep us posted.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

 

 

Yo, today I received SPECT results. 

 

- Decreased activity in Right Prefrontal Cortex

- Decreased activity in left brain hemishpere.

 

 

Interesting. Do they do them in Poland?

 

According to controversial Dr Amen:

 

Hypofrontality, decreased perfusion or activity in the prefrontal cortex, is another important SPECT finding that is often helpful in understanding and targeting treatment in individual patients. Hypofrontality is associated with a negative response to serotonergic medication in depression [30] and clozapine in schizophrenia [42] as well as with predicting relapse in alcoholics [43], improved response to acetylcholine-esterase inhibitors for memory and behavior in AD [44, 45], predicting a poor response to ketamine in fibromyalgia patients [46] and improved response to stimulants in patients with ADHD symptoms during a concentration challenge [47]. Hypofrontality is also associated with antisocial symptoms, impulsive behaviors, and murder [48, 49] as well as with completed suicide, which is often an impulsive act [50]. When hypofrontality is present in depressed patients, it is important to be vigilant in their care, as well as involve family support, as they may be less likely to respond to typical antidepressant medications and they may not have the cognitive resources to follow through with recommendations.

Given its broad range of involvement in different types of psychiatric illness hypofrontality, like other findings, will not give a specific psychiatric diagnosis, but it allows the clinician to know the underlying pathophysiology of the patient’s presenting problem and can help explain issues with cognitive impairment or behavioral problems.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3149839/

 

not sure about the left hemisphere thing.

please keep us posted.

 

 

 

Yup, they do. And it's not anything new. 

 

Anyway, I think that's why psychostimulants such as methylphenidate helps a lot. And why venlafaxine is helping too. 

 

"As noted above, hyperfrontality is associated with a positive response to SSRIs in depressed and anxious patients, while hypofrontality is associated with a negative response, and has been reported in completed suicides. Little et al., on the other hand, found that lower prefrontal activity prior to treatment was associated with a positive response to buproprion and venlafaxine [65]. These medications involve enhancing dopamine and norepinephrine, which in the authors’experience, tend to enhance prefrontal cortex activity, while SSRIs tend to be calming [31]."

[jaiho]

You might want to try rTMS or tDCS, stimulation of the prefrontal cortex increases dopamine.

Also 5HT2C antagonists or norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors should assist.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

You might want to try rTMS or tDCS, stimulation of the prefrontal cortex increases dopamine.

Also 5HT2C antagonists or norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors should assist.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking about. Unfortunately, the only known place with rTMS in my country is 435km from my city.

[jaiho]

In that case you should try tDCS and stimulate the right prefrontal.

Cheap enough here

 

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Hmm, well pre-frontal abnormalities have been noted in Schizophrenia - the mutations in the metabotropic glutamate-receptors have been noted to be in that region.

(that's why I thought fasoracetam could be useful - it affects those receptors, and has shown increased prefrontal faculties for other patient-groups - so far, there's no evidence though... not even peeps in the wild, trying it.)

 

I'm trying to find info about the left brain hemisphere and Schizo, but it's kind of thin... BUT... there is... SOMEthing...!

 

It appears as if one of the concepts of Schizo, is that it has to do with a loss of lateralization between brain hemispheres - how the loss of interpretation of outside stimuli, symbols, sounds - LANGUAGE, might actually cause the hallucinations and distortions of reality.

 

Here, check it out:

 

Schizophrenia as Failure of Left Hemispheric Dominance for the Phonological Component of Language

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0004507

 

 

 

Hmm... there's also some data suggesting that the hallucinations could occur at very specific activity-relationships between the two brain hemispheres, or intervalls if you like - certain activity triggers it.

 

Greater electroencephalographic coherence between left and right temporal lobe structures during increased geomagnetic activity

http://www.sciencedi...304394013010331

 

 

Hmm...! Trying to figure out if this means that you could use rTMS to increase activity in the Left hemisphere, and then cause your brain to start resculpting it, to normalise activity permanently? Probably not that easy...

 

Oh wait, here we go! This here recent paper goes through it in detail, and suggests that this is a recurring phenomenon in Schiz'! = D The left hemisphere is often smaller, while the right one is enlarged - apparently this could mean that the effects with decreased wite-matter, caused by Synaptic Pruning isn't global, it only affects half the brain! : O Ok, then Dihexa might be tricky, since that affects both hemispheres - so, there might be sid-effects - but eh, can't be worse than with current meds'.

 

Abnormal Asymmetry of Brain Connectivity in Schizophrenia

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4273663/

 

Brain Hemispheres Out of Sync in Schizophrenia

https://psychcentral...enia/43506.html

 

 

So... what increases ones linguistic capabilities? Apparently this has to do with the left brain-hemisphere? Therefore, increasing language-skills, bio-chemically, might enhance activity in the left hemisphere, and treat some of the symptoms.

 

Are there any nootropics which increase language-skills? Perhaps this regimen could then work on our friend MichaelTheAnhedonic (MTA, which I shall henceforth call him)?

 

1. rTMS straight to the left hemisphere.

 

2. Dihexa, to get some new synapses, and jump-start learning.

 

3. Linguistic-enhancing nootropic! ( a racetam? well, you could always try one of the alpha-7-agonists under development - HEY! Wait a minute... I think you were even UP for a TRIAL of one?? : O Months ago)

 

4. Language-training! Try to brush up on your English first, since you already know some English, go for something easy.

 

 

That... COULD increase activity in the left hemisphere, my man - it could give some effects.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Just found another, very recent study that really goes in-depth, with modern imaging-technology, into the nature of the assymetry between the left and right hemispheres in Schizo'.

 

Reduced Hemispheric Asymmetry of Brain Anatomical Networks Is Linked to Schizophrenia: A Connectome Study.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26503264

 

AGAIN: how do we normalize the activity between the hemispheres? Do we know if... ECT does this? ECT does help with ALL of the symptoms of Schizo, which is very unusual for any sort of therapy - does it normalize activity across the board?

 

rTMS is probably out of MTA's reach, but ECT is not - he could perhaps even get a scan of his brain done after an ECT-session, to see if the activity is more normalized between his hemispheres.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 21 July 2017 - 08:10 PM.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

Man... Today I received a message from my main psychiatrist which wrote to me that my scan is suggesting something neurological and that's not characteristic for schizophrenia. But then, I'm reading what  you posted... So much misinformation. 

I have a sister diagnosed with schizo 8 years ago. Maybe I have some genes involved in disrupted synaptic pruning. Dunno. One thing is sure - I don't have any positive symptoms besides positive-like symptom: hearing looped music in my head + tinnitus. When all of this has begun, my vision in dark places become worse and it didn't improved to this day. Also, I think my vision lost some of the saturation. Colors are not as bright as they should be. I had my eyes checked and everything is normal.

 

About hemispheres... I heard somewhere that jugglery can improve communication between them. 

 

Dihexa... I'm scared of this drug. I would like to try NSI again. I've been taking it 1 year ago with little success (24 days trial).

[jack black]

Man... Today I received a message from my main psychiatrist which wrote to me that my scan is suggesting something neurological and that's not characteristic for schizophrenia. But then, I'm reading what  you posted... So much misinformation. 

I have a sister diagnosed with schizo 8 years ago.

 

typical, average practicing psychiatrists will not have any insights about biological underpinning of psychiatric diseases. 

since you have a family history of that disease and someone told you in the past you had that disease too, you have to strongly consider that disease indeed. you could be experiencing negative symptoms, without positive symptoms?

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

 

Man... Today I received a message from my main psychiatrist which wrote to me that my scan is suggesting something neurological and that's not characteristic for schizophrenia. But then, I'm reading what  you posted... So much misinformation. 

I have a sister diagnosed with schizo 8 years ago.

 

typical, average practicing psychiatrists will not have any insights about biological underpinning of psychiatric diseases. 

since you have a family history of that disease and someone told you in the past you had that disease too, you have to strongly consider that disease indeed. you could be experiencing negative symptoms, without positive symptoms?

 

 

No one said that I have this disease. I said that. It's called simple schizophrenia.

[Rick05]

 

I have this for two years now. 7 years ago took antibiotics for teeth. Probably long term dosage if that matters, im suspicious about that. Back then drank coffee and felt superb, over time felt less and less fine after coffee. Then at some point felt less and less good, started drinking more of it up to 3 cups daily and to no effect. Same thing about physical workouts, felt great great great and then less less less and less and at some point felt nothing after workout. And around that moment my memory died, kept forgetting things, conversation details, dating was a nightmare because I confused girls which said what, I couldn't read a book or even watching movie was a pretty shallow feeling with zero enjoyment. Loosing orientation in time like forgetting what day is it and forgetting common names of things from time to time.

 

So you say its anhedonia? How would you advice to treat it? I asked lots of docs they said it looks like it. I tried tons of racetams and it made some effect but I'd say 10-30%, it helped somewhat with memory a little bit but not at all with long term memory and shallow emotions

 

http://psychotropica...al-ad-algorithm

 

 

So that basically means only antidepressants? SSRIs? 

[Sleepdealer]

MichaelTheAnhedonic, did you have your meeting with the neurologist last week? Have you talked anything about the findings of the scan?

[jaiho]

 

 

I have this for two years now. 7 years ago took antibiotics for teeth. Probably long term dosage if that matters, im suspicious about that. Back then drank coffee and felt superb, over time felt less and less fine after coffee. Then at some point felt less and less good, started drinking more of it up to 3 cups daily and to no effect. Same thing about physical workouts, felt great great great and then less less less and less and at some point felt nothing after workout. And around that moment my memory died, kept forgetting things, conversation details, dating was a nightmare because I confused girls which said what, I couldn't read a book or even watching movie was a pretty shallow feeling with zero enjoyment. Loosing orientation in time like forgetting what day is it and forgetting common names of things from time to time.

 

So you say its anhedonia? How would you advice to treat it? I asked lots of docs they said it looks like it. I tried tons of racetams and it made some effect but I'd say 10-30%, it helped somewhat with memory a little bit but not at all with long term memory and shallow emotions

 

http://psychotropica...al-ad-algorithm

 

 

So that basically means only antidepressants? SSRIs? 

 

 

The algorithim specialises in treating refractory anhedonia, biological depressive symptoms. Which includes negative symptoms of Schizo.

Starts off with the most dopaminergic SSRI (Sertraline), which is augmented with a TCA, and if it fails, the SSRI is dropped for an MAOI.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

MichaelTheAnhedonic, did you have your meeting with the neurologist last week? Have you talked anything about the findings of the scan?

 

Yup, genetic tests. 

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

MichaelTheAnhedonic, did you have your meeting with the neurologist last week? Have you talked anything about the findings of the scan?

 

Yup, genetic tests. 

 

 

What do you mean? Neurology is obviously not the same as genetics.

 

Did you tell him about the studies I showed you, the ones which have found connections between the kind of alterations you have in your brain, and Schizophrenia?

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

 

 

MichaelTheAnhedonic, did you have your meeting with the neurologist last week? Have you talked anything about the findings of the scan?

 

Yup, genetic tests. 

 

 

What do you mean? Neurology is obviously not the same as genetics.

 

Did you tell him about the studies I showed you, the ones which have found connections between the kind of alterations you have in your brain, and Schizophrenia?

 

 

Yup. Neurologist said to me that's unusual and the scans are done on paranoid schizphrenics. 

 

I will get couple of genetic tests to see if this is something genetic.

 

FFS. I need something optimistic... 

Edited by MichaelTheAnhedonic, 05 August 2017 - 08:12 PM.

[dreamedm]

Any news?

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

Still waiting for the info from neurologist. Probably I'll get it soon.

 

Apathy is very strong this year.... My mind is awfully blank. I feel like I don't have identity anymore. Got problems with thyroid this year and it's all worse. Methylphenidate almost doesn't work anymore, maybe bcuz of thyroid...

[ThreeKings12341]

Still waiting for the info from neurologist. Probably I'll get it soon.

 

Apathy is very strong this year.... My mind is awfully blank. I feel like I don't have identity anymore. Got problems with thyroid this year and it's all worse. Methylphenidate almost doesn't work anymore, maybe bcuz of thyroid...

 

michael arent you on ssri + notrypt? hows it going?

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

 

Still waiting for the info from neurologist. Probably I'll get it soon.

 

Apathy is very strong this year.... My mind is awfully blank. I feel like I don't have identity anymore. Got problems with thyroid this year and it's all worse. Methylphenidate almost doesn't work anymore, maybe bcuz of thyroid...

 

michael arent you on ssri + notrypt? hows it going?

 

 

Not yet. I'm waiting for another appointment with endocrinologist. Need to fix my thyroid completely. Then, I need to buy somewhere nortriptyline - anyone know legit source? 

 

And I'm afraid of serotonin syndrome...

[Krocius]

Man, you should definitely try t3 treatment solo/combined with t4, cause t4 only might not be effective. Your vision deterioration sounds like a symptom of hypothyroidism. Mine improves dramatically when I use t3. Also it seems like you are still magnesium deficient judging by your intrusive music had this symptom when I was deficient but not to overdo with it. Also I would not ignore suggestions about things like leaky gut/food sensitivities you have to try anything it could be much more important than you think. Hypofrontality associated with porn abuse try nofap for anhedonia relief I’ve about some cases of anhedonia relieving after porn abstaining. Some of my suggestions may sound ridiculous but you have to try anything available.

Edited by Krocius, 31 December 2017 - 01:56 AM.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

Man, you should definitely try t3 treatment solo/combined with t4, cause t4 only might not be effective. Your vision deterioration sounds like a symptom of hypothyroidism. Mine improves dramatically when I use t3. Also it seems like you are still magnesium deficient judging by your intrusive music had this symptom when I was deficient but not to overdo with it. Also I would not ignore suggestions about things like leaky gut/food sensitivities you have to try anything it could be much more important than you think. Hypofrontality associated with porn abuse try nofap for anhedonia relief I’ve about some cases of anhedonia relieving after porn abstaining. Some of my suggestions may sound ridiculous but you have to try anything available.

 

Well, you got my interest. The thing is that at the beginning of 2017 my thyroid started to manifest itself. My FT4 was slighlt elevated and the same thing is for TSH. Endos didn't know what it's exactly, they've suspected Hashimoto's but they weren't sure. Many months passed and finally, on January 24 this year I will be finally hospitilized in one of the best endrocrinology ward in my country. They will test if I have thyroid hormone resistance. In this condition, some or all of tissues are hormone resistance which means that my brain is hypothyroid but the rest of my body is euthyroid (normal). I've been taking T4 but I can't tolerate it too well, my libido is increasing dramatically on it and it makes nofap IMPOSSIBLE. I've started to see longer afterimages, even when looking at not bright light. T3 is little bit hard to get in my country, AFAIK we only have T4+low dose T3. 

 

Anyway, If I really have simple schizo, then L-DOPA may be a life saver - they add it recently in treatment section on wikipedia.

Edited by MichaelTheAnhedonic, 01 January 2018 - 03:00 PM.

[medievil]

Amphetamine works for negative symptions in shizo.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Amphetamine works for negative symptions in shizo.

 

In some Schizo's, yes, it is however, also the drug most known to trigger positive symptoms in other persons on the Schiz-spectrum.

 

Even the selective D2-variant agonist they tried to develop failed in that regard: a certain portion of the patients will have their positive symptoms triggered.

 

DON'T go suggesting something that risky! There's no telling if Michael is one of the susceptible ones!

 

 

Michael... don't do it - AMP is dangerous stuff. Try the safe route - 5ht3-antagonists, Third-generation AP's and Alpha-7-agonists. (experimental, I know, but the theoretical data suggests a greater safety-profile than amphetamines - haven't heard of any schiz' getting psychotic from smoking as of yet!)

[jack black]

T3 is little bit hard to get in my country, AFAIK we only have T4+low dose T3. 

 

Anyway, If I really have simple schizo, then L-DOPA may be a life saver - they add it recently in treatment section on wikipedia.

 

 

it's hard to believe T3 is not available. it's probably hard to find anyone who is willing to prescribe T3. it's the same in USA. endos are brainwashed to believe T4 is great and T3 is evil.

 

coming back to simple schiso, you should be able to find natural supplements containing L-DOPA.

 

BTW, from wiki:

 

 

Definition of this type of schizophrenia is without unity or is controversial.^[13] The diagnosis was discontinued in the DSM system, although it was recommended for reinclusion.^[14] It was subsequently confirmed as having imprecise diagnostic criteria based on collective descriptions lacking in agreement.^[15]

However, in an experiment with a small sample size, five patients with a diagnosis of simple deteriorative disorder (DSM-IV) were found to have grey matter deficits, atrophy and reduced cerebral perfusion in the frontal areas.^[16] Whitwell et al. found justification to retain the classification on the basis of fulfillment of "dimensional" considerations of classification, as opposed to criticisms resulting from disagreement in considerations of classification using orientation from other categories.^[17]

isn't that what your SPEC scan showed?

 

here are some random thoughts: how about ADHD meds (that work with prefrontal hypofunction) or Lithium (that works on regenerating lost gray matter). 

 

good luck!
 

[medievil]

 

Amphetamine works for negative symptions in shizo.

 

In some Schizo's, yes, it is however, also the drug most known to trigger positive symptoms in other persons on the Schiz-spectrum.

 

Even the selective D2-variant agonist they tried to develop failed in that regard: a certain portion of the patients will have their positive symptoms triggered.

 

DON'T go suggesting something that risky! There's no telling if Michael is one of the susceptible ones!

 

 

Michael... don't do it - AMP is dangerous stuff. Try the safe route - 5ht3-antagonists, Third-generation AP's and Alpha-7-agonists. (experimental, I know, but the theoretical data suggests a greater safety-profile than amphetamines - haven't heard of any schiz' getting psychotic from smoking as of yet!)

 

5ht3 antagonists wont work if ig you ask me, amp is the only thing working for negative symptions like anhedonia, it does for me.