10 replies to this topic

[normalizing]

hopping around, browsing checking here and there on wikipedia as per usual i got lost into this obscure article; https://en.wikipedia...num_Biosciences "In 2015 Signum partnered with Nerium International to launch a dietary supplement called eicosanoyl-5-hydroxytryptamide (EHT).^[8] EHT is derived from coffee and inhibits demethylaton of the enzyme protein phosphatase 2 (PPP2CA; PP2A).^[9] EHT has shown neuroprotective effects in a mouse model of Parkinson's disease"

 

wait, what? now that is something! i never heard of this before and its damn recent, 2015? and how come its on the market and i dont even know? here is more information; http://www.nature.co...x.2011.590.html and the company http://www.prweb.com...web12644620.htm

 

i checked the contents and it has the usual vitamins minerals crap as most supplements but also this new unique chemical eicosanoyl-5-hydrotryptamide supposedly derived from coffee but upon research its in very tiny amounts versus the large amount of caffeine you will consume to get even few mgs doesnt seem worth it so this supplement seems like the best new thing. anyone curious, interested into this??

[niner]

This looked pretty interesting, at first.  EHT is a micomolar inhibitor of PP2 demethylation, which means that to have a significant effect you would need to maintain a micromolar concentration in the brain for a long time.  For a typical compound, that might require a dose in the gram+ range, but according to Nerium's Supplement Facts sheet for EHT, they only have 35mg of the compound.   They also have a low-normal dose of huperzine A, for what that's worth...  Also 2000 IU of vitamin D.   If they have any experimental evidence that their supplement works, that would be impressive, but lacking that, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on this.  Probably better to spend it on coffee...

Edited by niner, 03 March 2016 - 02:24 AM.

[niner]

On second thought, there is a lot of epidemiological evidence that coffee consumption reduces Parkinson's risk.  There are a lot of chemicals in coffee, but they do have a mechanism of action for EHT.  Further, the compound probably has pretty good pharmacokinetics, given its structure and lack of phenolic functionality.  If 35mg of EHT represents the amount found in a quantity of coffee that was found to reduce risk of PD, at least it has some basis.  As an isolated compound we don't really know if it works, particularly in a mix with other psychoactives and various vitamins and minerals.  Personally, I like coffee, but if you can't or don't want to drink it, maybe this pill could get you some PD resistance.  Hard to say if it works or not, and I suspect it's not cheap, so I'll stick with coffee.

[normalizing]

niner, how how you figure you would need grams of the stuff to be valuable enough and have an effect? it is present in coffee, but its way less than 30 mg and i doubt thats the one doing the benefit of coffee considering coffee has so much other stuff. wouldnt it be a good idea to dose this supplement WITH coffee? then you power it up and probably has better bioavailabity and maintenance with coffee combination and you might not need grams of it either

[niner]

It's pretty typical for natural products to have bad pharmacokinetics, so you need a lot of most things to hit any kind of reasonable plasma level.  However, and this is what led to my "second thought" post, EHT isn't a typical natural product.  It's more hydrophobic than most supplement-type molecules, and lacks the kind of functionality that usually makes things poorly bioavailable.  So in consideration of this, I think that the 35mg dose is probably ok after all.  I don't know how much is in coffee, but once you account for the caffeine and chlorogenic acid, there can't be that much more there, so I suspect that 35mg probably corresponds to a healthy dose of coffee.  It's true that coffee is a complex mix of compounds, but the thing about EHT is that they've figured out the mechanism of action.  You could always use it as a coffee booster.  While you're at it, sweeten the coffee with trehalose for an autophagic boost.

[Logic]

While you're at it, sweeten the coffee with trehalose for an autophagic boost.

 

A mg or 2 of Lithium wouldn't go amiss either!  
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=763863

[niner]

Well a mg or 2 of lithium wouldn't hurt you (I take 5 a day), but I don't think that's enough to have an effect on autophagy, if this paper is any indication.  There, they were shooting for a plasma level of 0.6 uM Li+, which took a dose of 300-450mg Lithium carbonate.  (Not sure if that's elemental or compound weight, but it's a lot of lithium either way.)

[normalizing]

most studies i have seen actually use too high a dose of lithium so im not sure if they are applicable at all for most people using such low doses

[niner]

The dose of lithium they used in the ALS paper I posted above was at the low end of the range used for bipolar disorder.  It really seemed to help in the trial they ran.  My question would be what's the minimum dose needed to upregulate autophagy?  It looks like the dose they used worked, but could you lower it further and still have it work?  I don't know. 

 

[Logic]

The dose of lithium they used in the ALS paper I posted above was at the low end of the range used for bipolar disorder.  It really seemed to help in the trial they ran.  My question would be what's the minimum dose needed to upregulate autophagy?  It looks like the dose they used worked, but could you lower it further and still have it work?  I don't know. 

 

 

Hmmm... good point:  what is the effective dosage range for enhanced autophagy by Lithium..?
(Half life etc)

I also wonder at the increased longevity seen in the studies done in Japan in areas with naturally high Lithium content in the water?  The dose most people got was around 1 mg per day IIRC, but more could be better.

So what are its other effects and their effective dosages?

IIRC it highly protective of brain (other?) cells, unless they are pre-cancerous, then it kills them?

I wonder if the Lithium dosage debate shouldn't be here? 

http://www.longecity...crophagy/page-3

EHT is interesting in its own right.

[normalizing]

i find EHT interesting as well but nobody really showed interest except niner at first. i guess i was the one willing to go for it but the price is too much to risk for such low dose of 30 mg bah