21 replies to this topic

[Danail Bulgaria]

Perhaps it is a strange question, but in the future how it is supposed, that the bodies to be revived?

[elfanjo]

You may want to have a look at this resource
http://www.evidenceb...nts-literature/

[Danail Bulgaria]

In brief, it is a repair of the cryopreserved body itself, and reviving this very same body,that was cryopreserved. OK.

[YOLF]

In brief, it is a repair of the cryopreserved body itself, and reviving this very same body,that was cryopreserved. OK.

Or bio printing of a new body for your repaired brain.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Is the last thing for those, who are head or beain only, or for the full bodies also?

 

And what exactly is meaned by brain repair?

 

[elfanjo]

Vitrification has several problems. It is not 100%, there is toxicity with cryoprotectants and cracks can still happen.
From my understanding the question is how to thawe without causing any more damage and use nanotechnologies to repair damaged tissues (so long that the structure was kept).
I believe it would be the same process for the body.
Yeah it is a long shot..

[shifter]

I don't get why people who undergo cryonics have to die first. Say you had an inoperable tumour or a cancer that's gone too far..... Wouldn't you want to cryo preserve yourself while your body is still alive? In the future, drugs or operation techniques could find a way to treat your disease but if you die, you have complicated matters unnecessarily. The brain starved of oxygen more than a few minutes does irreparable damage and death to the organ. Why add that to the list of things that need to be fixed?

 

Would cryo preserving someone still alive be considered murder so there's the legal issue with that? Is that the only thing people wait to die first for?

 

It seems to make more sense to still be alive when undergoing cryonics than to die first and then hope to be revived

 

You'd have better luck waiting around time dilation stasis pods or something.

 

[Danail Bulgaria]

Yes, the law systems consider it murder. 

 

And yes, the best will be the dying human to be cryopreserved before the death. Several hours or days before death are nothing for someone, for whom it is certain, that will die anyway. But cryopreserving the human while still alive makes the chance for repairing the body higher for the future. 

 

It is a strange situation. Cryonics today (2016) should be viewd as an euthanasia with chances of revival. However, no legal system in the world views it like that. 

 

The path to immortality leads through allowing the death by a will. 

[Rib Jig]

bio printing of a new body for your repaired brain.

 

 

Repaired brain?

How is one's continuation revived if brain is repaired???

At revival, will one be thinking,

"I was that person, now I am someone new, not a continuation of that person.

That person ended.  That person is not revived, I am started"???

Edited by Rib Jig, 10 July 2016 - 07:06 PM.

[YOLF]

Personally, I've been through something like that and my experience doesn't indicate that I'd have trouble with having had my brain repaired and perhaps corrected in a few ways that I would specify up front. But the repair is repairing the damage of aging and the damage from freezing. It's going to bring you back to your peak, or somewhere around 18 for most people, probably around 14-15 if you had a natural precocity. In fact, I'm thinking that it would be better to come back with a window of development to better adapt to future we are revived into and that it would naturally become a requirement so we can live happily in our new environment.

[YOLF]

Think about it this way... when you get sick and have a fever, you're cognition suffers as it does, or similar to it does with aging. Then the fever clears and you feel your normal self... you never ceased being yourself, you were just you under conditions as given. When you go into cryonics, you will be aged and suffering cognitive decline and loss of neuroplasticity whether you realize it or not. When you wake, you will have a higher functioning, cleaner burning brain that is more resistant to loss of plasticity than it has ever been in your life. It should be more like taking a Captain America Serum that also happens to have been drawn from the fountain of youth.

[Rib Jig]

"Mona Lisa" has aged.

At some point, probably not now, it was at its worst.

Since then it has been cleaned, maybe repaired, restored.

It is one & only original Mona Lisa.

But it will NEVER again, no matter how advanced humans

become, have exact in-person look & feel of

"freshly-completed-one-hour-ago" Mona Lisa,

nor will a perfectly cloned-printed "Mona Lisa"

 

Return to one's 16-yr-old specific genetics does NOT return

one to one's gone-forever 16-yr-old self...?!!!!

 

After your fever, you will never be able to change length

of time of that fever to recoup your original "loss of normalness"...???!!

Edited by Rib Jig, 11 July 2016 - 07:00 PM.

[elfanjo]

People who had frontal lobe injuries through accidents experience deep personnality alterations. Their relatives sometimes say that they do not recognize them.
Where one cease being himself? When is it a big deal?

[Rib Jig]

Where one cease being himself? When is it a big deal?

 

Its big deal NOW if investing in your own cryonics!!!!!

 

Either you're investing in your own future or in a non-continuous "new" person

AKA SOMEBODY ELSE AKA NOT YOU!!!!! 

 you're not   dead but   you're not   alive you're   GONE GONE GONE

Edited by Rib Jig, 12 July 2016 - 01:22 PM.

[elfanjo]

No what I meant is where is the line between you and not you. It is a big deal when, like you said, you become somebody else.
How do we measure that? How do you know one is still himself? You ask the person?

Difficult... if not philisophical

For sure after being cryopreserved and thawed years later your sense of self will be shaken. I don't believe in the "wake up and feel awesome" mantra. And I think no one is.

Now continuity shall be preserved as your brain structure is supposed to be very close. Now like I said very close could be not close enough if for instance your neocortex was damaged.

Unfortunately we have no waranty for that

[Rib Jig]

> where is the line between you and not you

 

It is drawn by YOU ONLY YOU!!!!!

 

Either you revive & say:

a. I'm revived!!!  I can continue my life!!!!!

or

b. You say I've been revived?  What are you talking about?????

 

Of course (b) person can be educated about their past,

but they will NEVER, other than artificially, be connected to their past...?

[elfanjo]

I am talking about altered conciousness in response to YOLF post

I do agree with you though Rib Jig: new brain new consciousness. Then you are much like a newborn in an adult body..

Edited by elfanjo, 12 July 2016 - 10:55 PM.

[YOLF]

"Mona Lisa" has aged.

At some point, probably not now, it was at its worst.

Since then it has been cleaned, maybe repaired, restored.

It is one & only original Mona Lisa.

But it will NEVER again, no matter how advanced humans

become, have exact in-person look & feel of

"freshly-completed-one-hour-ago" Mona Lisa,

nor will a perfectly cloned-printed "Mona Lisa"

 

Return to one's 16-yr-old specific genetics does NOT return

one to one's gone-forever 16-yr-old self...?!!!!

 

After your fever, you will never be able to change length

of time of that fever to recoup your original "loss of normalness"...???!!

 

These are good arguments, but it's still better than not being young again... It's not just genetics either, there'll be more to it. Paintings are also static existences. We're more dynamic than that.... It's more the baggage of this life still seeping into the post cryonics life that I'm worried about... How long does one have to live to escape the pain of having suffered aging?

[YOLF]

Will I still be such a pessimist about life? Will the pessimism grow worse? Or will I return to my youthful optimism? The smallest seeds produce the largest trees as they say (of sequoias), but what will exist for planting post cryonics?

[YOLF]

 

Where one cease being himself? When is it a big deal?

 

Its big deal NOW if investing in your own cryonics!!!!!

 

Either you're investing in your own future or in a non-continuous "new" person

AKA SOMEBODY ELSE AKA NOT YOU!!!!! 

 you're not   dead but   you're not   alive you're   GONE GONE GONE

 

 

I'm not disagreeing, if I intend to restore my own life, then it better be me and I better be a teenager post thaw. I'm sure reasonable minds will work out a sufficient solution. 

[YOLF]

I am talking about altered conciousness in response to YOLF post

I do agree with you though Rib Jig: new brain new consciousness. Then you are much like a newborn in an adult body..

 

So here's where I am in relation to this... I want to be revived and made young, but I've been trying to live with aging and other pains and I consider them to be parts of my consciousness that I want to be pruned off. No point in buying into this experience if I'm not going to feel positive and ride the wave... if I wake up and I'm still smiling through a bad mood to get by... then there's a problem. Otherwise, as long as I'm based on the same hardware and it's close enough that I don't think I'm someone I'm not supposed to be... things should be good. Aging is a disease and as much a mental disorder as anything else... we just accept it, b/c we accept getting old. But if I don't feel like I felt when I was young, I'm not in a perfectly healthy mental state, the decline of that state is just acceptable for my age oslt... Becoming young again, should restore the euphoria of youth to what it was, to where every moment feels better than a drug. There are going to be some changes in one's mental state and it's going to be an alteration from where you were when you were when you were put in the cryotube. It should be a better you.

[Rib Jig]

> parts of my consciousness that I want to be pruned off...

 

Gawblimey, please no!!!

I want continuation.

If I threw up 100 days ago,

there's no need to erase that memory

in order to be productive-ambitious today!!!

My cryonics continuation is to be all about

continuing improvement.  What a THRILL

it will be to "reawake", all memories &

motivations intact, get up to date on state of humanity

& tools of me trade, & then simply

bloody carry         on...

BUT SETTING NEW GOALS ALSO AN OPTION...

Edited by Rib Jig, 30 July 2016 - 08:50 PM.