231 replies to this topic

[resveratrol_guy]

Oleocanthal, a Phenolic Derived from Virgin Olive Oil: A Review of the Beneficial Effects on Inflammatory Disease

• oleocanthal not only mimics the mode of ibuprofen inflammatory activity, but inhibits COX 1 and COX 2 enzymes significantly more at equimolar concentrations...
• This adds further weight to oleocanthal as a potential factor in the health benefits associated with a traditional Mediterranean Diet. Assuming approximately 70% absorption, then 50 mL/day [Olive oil] corresponds to approximately 10% the current Ibuprofen pain relieving dose...
• The inflammatory enzymes attenuated by oleocanthal, COX 1 and COX 2, are responsible for the conversion of arachidonic acid to prostaglandins and thromboxane, which are produced in response to inflammatory or toxic stimuli...
• oleocanthal encourages cell apoptosis by activating caspase-3 and poly-adenosine diphosphate-ribose polymerase, phosphorylates p53...
• unusual effect of oleocanthal on heat shock protein 90 (Hsp90) [49]. Hsp90 is a chaperone protein that stabilizes a number of proteins that are required for tumor growth. Therefore Hsp90 inhibitors are investigated as anti-cancer drugs...oleocanthal significantly reduce two Hsp90 proteins, Akt and Cdk4 without actually influencing Hsp90 regulation...
• Furthermore oleocanthal had a pro-apoptotic effect on cancer cells...
• oleocanthal inhibits NO production in J774 macrophages and inhibits both IL-6 and MIP-1α in both ATDC5 chrondocytes and J774 macrophages [57]. These inflammatory cytokines are both implicated in the inflammatory process and cartilage destruction of inflammatory arthropathies...
• oleocanthal decreased expression of other pro-inflammatory markers Interleukin 1 (IL-1), tumour neurosis Factor (TNFα), and granulocyte-macrophage colony-stimulating factor (GM-CFS)...
• oleocanthal inhibits tau fibrillization in vitro by forming an adduct with PHF6 peptide. PHF6, is a VQIXXK motif that resides in the microtubule binding region [59]. Common lesions that are observed in neuro-degenerative disease (i.e., Alzheimer’s disease) are hyperphosphorylated tangles of tau and the PHF6 peptide enables the phosphorylation of tau. Therefore as oleocanthal modifies the PHF6 peptide it then disturbs tau-tau interaction and the subsequent fibril formation.
• the mechanism by which oleocanthal reacts with the tau protein ...covalently modifies the construct of tau referred to as K18 in biologically relevant conditions. Oleocanthal cross linked with two lysine residues and the end result was the rearrangement of the skeleton producing a more stable piridinium like complex...
• Derived from Aβ are diffusible ligands (ADDLs) which are neurotoxic factors believed to initiate the onset of Alzheimer’s disease. In vitro evidence suggests that oleocanthal alters the structure of ADDLs and augments antibody clearance of ADDLs, therefore protecting hippocampal neurons from ADDL toxicity...
• in vivo data indicating that oleocanthal enhances the clearance of Aβ by up regulating P-glycoprotein (P-gp) and also LDL lipoprotein receptor related protein-1 (LRPI)...

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4139846/

 

These effects, and their downstream effects, are familiar to anyone who has been following C60oo's anecdotal reports etc.

Perhaps C60 most enhances the bioavailability of Oleocanthal?

 

Could C60 be binding to the same point in the Oleocanthal, hydroxytyrosol, etc molecules that is normally bound to by the substances that metabolise them...?

 

Very interesting!

 

I do find it ironic that it inhibits GMCSF, because this stuff activates the microglia to collect extraneuronal protein aggregates, for example, tau fibrils. Rheumatoid arthritis releases a lot of it, which is why that condition is associated with a lower risk of dementia, despite being an inflammatory process. However, it sounds as though oleocanthal intervenes at an early stage in the aggregation and fibrilization process, during which it shuts down the chain reaction which would otherwise result in those end products. Amyloid aggregation has already been shown, at least in primitive worms, to be a protein misfolding viral process analogous to prion diseases; tau phosphorylation is suspected of the same. So anything which could interrupt that chain reaction would be very valuable indeed. In other words, idiopathic tau phosphorylation is survivable via neuroplasticity, but viral phosphorylation leads to terminal cognitive decline.
 

It bears repeating: the longest lived person, Jean Calment, was an olive oil addict. She even used it topically as a sort of cosmetic treatment. Granted, she's only one data point, but one hell of a data point! Then of course it has also been said, with good statistical backing, that the EVOO in c60oo was responsible for most of its life extensive benefits in the Moussa study.

 

What do you know... there's a good Scientific American article, predating the above paper, on the inverse correlation of EVOO consumption and Alzheimer's. (They used the Med diet as a proxy for EVOO, which means there's probably more to gain because the Med diet is also loaded with pasta and white bread: "A recent study of 1,880 elderly people living in New York City, for example, showed that those who strongly adhered to a Mediterranean diet over the study's 14-year span had a 32 to 40 percent lower incidence of Alzheimer's compared with those who did not.") Perhaps the most useful insight is that it's apparently the oleocanthal which causes the throat burn for which EVOO is so infamous. So there's one rough way to gauge concentration. Rather than wait for a prescription drug based on oleocanthal, I think it's time to eat an egg drowned in olive and coconut oil...

[stefan_001]

 

Oleocanthal, a Phenolic Derived from Virgin Olive Oil: A Review of the Beneficial Effects on Inflammatory Disease

• ........

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4139846/

 

These effects, and their downstream effects, are familiar to anyone who has been following C60oo's anecdotal reports etc.

Perhaps C60 most enhances the bioavailability of Oleocanthal?

 

Could C60 be binding to the same point in the Oleocanthal, hydroxytyrosol, etc molecules that is normally bound to by the substances that metabolise them...?

 

Very interesting!

 

I do find it ironic that it inhibits GMCSF, because this stuff activates the microglia to collect extraneuronal protein aggregates, for example, tau fibrils. Rheumatoid arthritis releases a lot of it, which is why that condition is associated with a lower risk of dementia, despite being an inflammatory process. However, it sounds as though oleocanthal intervenes at an early stage in the aggregation and fibrilization process, during which it shuts down the chain reaction which would otherwise result in those end products. Amyloid aggregation has already been shown, at least in primitive worms, to be a protein misfolding viral process analogous to prion diseases; tau phosphorylation is suspected of the same. So anything which could interrupt that chain reaction would be very valuable indeed. In other words, idiopathic tau phosphorylation is survivable via neuroplasticity, but viral phosphorylation leads to terminal cognitive decline.
 

It bears repeating: the longest lived person, Jean Calment, was an olive oil addict. She even used it topically as a sort of cosmetic treatment. Granted, she's only one data point, but one hell of a data point! Then of course it has also been said, with good statistical backing, that the EVOO in c60oo was responsible for most of its life extensive benefits in the Moussa study.

 

What do you know... there's a good Scientific American article, predating the above paper, on the inverse correlation of EVOO consumption and Alzheimer's. (They used the Med diet as a proxy for EVOO, which means there's probably more to gain because the Med diet is also loaded with pasta and white bread: "A recent study of 1,880 elderly people living in New York City, for example, showed that those who strongly adhered to a Mediterranean diet over the study's 14-year span had a 32 to 40 percent lower incidence of Alzheimer's compared with those who did not.") Perhaps the most useful insight is that it's apparently the oleocanthal which causes the throat burn for which EVOO is so infamous. So there's one rough way to gauge concentration. Rather than wait for a prescription drug based on oleocanthal, I think it's time to eat an egg drowned in olive and coconut oil...

 

 

From an another discussion...Greece has very high oil consumption and from what I understand peppery taste of Olive Oil is appreciated there.Ofcourse the link is very speculative:

 

---------------------------------------------

Posted by stefan_001 on 06 October 2015 - 08:23 PM in Supplements

timbur, on 06 Oct 2015 - 6:32 PM, said:

resveratrol_guy, on 05 Oct 2015 - 10:24 PM, said:

I think further experiments with glycine and blood sugar are warranted. For the record, what brand are you using, docmaas?

For what it's worth, here is where I got the French data. It's a list of 172 countries and their Alzheimer's rates. Admittedly, it's very dirty data, but I think there are still conclusions that can be drawn. I don't think it's a huge surprise that the charts are topped by Western countries.

I found that site too, showing death rate per 100,000 from Alzheimer's. There, France is #13 here whereas USA is #2. Based on your comments, I expected to see France higher than #13 in death rate. On another site, I read that the disease prevalence is most common in Western Europe, with North America being close behind. But I couldn't find any outright statistics with a few minutes of searching.

Anyway, your hypothesis of high protein intake being detrimental is interesting.

I find it more interesting that Greece is so low on the list. What is different with them that they have so different stats than the rest of Europe?

------------------------------------

 

Edited by stefan_001, 25 March 2016 - 07:16 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

It bears repeating: the longest lived person, Jean Calment, was an olive oil addict. She even used it topically as a sort of cosmetic treatment. Granted, she's only one data point, but one hell of a data point! Then of course it has also been said, with good statistical backing, that the EVOO in c60oo was responsible for most of its life extensive benefits in the Moussa study.

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to hear more about this statistical backing, as the Moussa paper says the following--Our results show that while olive oil treatment can lead to an increase of 18% of lifespan of treated rats, C60-olive oil can increase it up to 90%, as compared to controls. 

[Logic]

 

It bears repeating: the longest lived person, Jean Calment, was an olive oil addict. She even used it topically as a sort of cosmetic treatment. Granted, she's only one data point, but one hell of a data point! Then of course it has also been said, with good statistical backing, that the EVOO in c60oo was responsible for most of its life extensive benefits in the Moussa study.

 
 
I would like to hear more about this statistical backing, as the Moussa paper says the following--Our results show that while olive oil treatment can lead to an increase of 18% of lifespan of treated rats, C60-olive oil can increase it up to 90%, as compared to controls. 

 

 
Yes; lets not lose sight of the fact that this topic is about Turnbuckle's hypothesis that "in C60/EVOO, the polyphenol content is conferring most of the longevity benefits, while C60 mainly serves to transport polyphenols into mitochondria as adducts." and the evidence he presents. 

I hypothesize that perhaps C60 is binding to these molecules at the same points at which the substances that normally break them down would attach to them, blocking their breakdown..?

That said, from:

Oleocanthal rapidly and selectively induces cancer cell death via lysosomal membrane permeabilization

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4568762/

 

It says:

The data presented here demonstrate that OC selectively induces cell death in cancer cells via downregulation of ASM activity leading to Lysosomal Membrane Permeabilization, while reversibly arresting non-cancerous cells.

In non-cancerous cells, OC induces G1 cell cycle arrest via inhibition of Rb phosphorylation at Ser608, preventing cell cycle progression into S phase.

Importantly, non-cancerous cells that are arrested by OC resume proliferation after 72 h of OC treatment.

 

Now keeping the buildup C60 seen in lysosomes in mind:  What does this imply/tell us!???

Especially if C60 is increasing the bioavailability of Oleocanthal?

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

Three more trials, this time using De Carlo Tenuta Torre di Mossa EVOO (October 2015 harvest with a polyphenol content of 917).

 

(8) Torre di Mossa mixed with .6 mg/ml C60 and 833 mg/kg hydroxytyrosol. These were added simultaneously and magnetically stirred for 4 days. One teaspoon dose.

 

(9) Mix #8 + 5,000 mg/kg dl-alpha tocopheryl, stirred one additional day. One teaspoon dose.

 

(10) One teaspoon of #8 followed by 50 mg of hydroxytyrosol caps.

 

Results:

 

For exercise, #8 was at least as good as anything tested before, #9 was about the same as #8, and #10 seemed more effective. Also, the Torre di Mossa oil was the best tasting I’ve ever purchased.

 

 

[aaCharley]

 

 

It bears repeating: the longest lived person, Jean Calment, was an olive oil addict. She even used it topically as a sort of cosmetic treatment. Granted, she's only one data point, but one hell of a data point! Then of course it has also been said, with good statistical backing, that the EVOO in c60oo was responsible for most of its life extensive benefits in the Moussa study.

 
 
I would like to hear more about this statistical backing, as the Moussa paper says the following--Our results show that while olive oil treatment can lead to an increase of 18% of lifespan of treated rats, C60-olive oil can increase it up to 90%, as compared to controls. 

 

 
Yes; lets not lose sight of the fact that this topic is about Turnbuckle's hypothesis that "in C60/EVOO, the polyphenol content is conferring most of the longevity benefits, while C60 mainly serves to transport polyphenols into mitochondria as adducts." and the evidence he presents. 

I hypothesize that perhaps C60 is binding to these molecules at the same points at which the substances that normally break them down would attach to them, blocking their breakdown..?

That said, from:

Oleocanthal rapidly and selectively induces cancer cell death via lysosomal membrane permeabilization

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4568762/

 

It says:

The data presented here demonstrate that OC selectively induces cell death in cancer cells via downregulation of ASM activity leading to Lysosomal Membrane Permeabilization, while reversibly arresting non-cancerous cells.

In non-cancerous cells, OC induces G1 cell cycle arrest via inhibition of Rb phosphorylation at Ser608, preventing cell cycle progression into S phase.

Importantly, non-cancerous cells that are arrested by OC resume proliferation after 72 h of OC treatment.

 

Now keeping the buildup C60 seen in lysosomes in mind:  What does this imply/tell us!???

Especially if C60 is increasing the bioavailability of Oleocanthal?

 

 

Hope these are not just stupid questions.

If the non-cancerous cells were arrested by the treatment, does that make a case for some form of pulse or intermittent dosing?  I also wonder if the addition of the extra Oleocanthal should be done before the C60 is added.  Is the C60 able to attach to more polyphenols once it is already dissolved in the original solution? 
 

[Turnbuckle]

 

Hope these are not just stupid questions.

If the non-cancerous cells were arrested by the treatment, does that make a case for some form of pulse or intermittent dosing?  I also wonder if the addition of the extra Oleocanthal should be done before the C60 is added.  Is the C60 able to attach to more polyphenols once it is already dissolved in the original solution? 
 

 

 

 

Intermittent dosing? I'd say yes. I think the presence of oleocanthal may explain why some have seen effects decline with daily dosing. It's not the only possible explanation, of course, but it's the simplest. The way around it is to use an oil with no phenols and add only those you want prior to adding the C60. Like a saturated oil that won't react with C60. Coconut oil, for example.

[stefan_001]

 

 

Hope these are not just stupid questions.

If the non-cancerous cells were arrested by the treatment, does that make a case for some form of pulse or intermittent dosing?  I also wonder if the addition of the extra Oleocanthal should be done before the C60 is added.  Is the C60 able to attach to more polyphenols once it is already dissolved in the original solution? 
 

 

 

 

Intermittent dosing? I'd say yes. I think the presence of oleocanthal may explain why some have seen effects decline with daily dosing. It's not the only possible explanation, of course, but it's the simplest. The way around it is to use an oil with no phenols and add only those you want prior to adding the C60. Like a saturated oil that won't react with C60. Coconut oil, for example.

 

 

Avoid when pregnant would be my thinking. On the other side people consuming olive oil daily dont seem the have side effects of this.

 

I am also wondering what happens to the adducts, do they stay attached to the C60 and stay active or are they cut off once they are in the cell.

 

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Avoid when pregnant would be my thinking. On the other side people consuming olive oil daily dont seem the have side effects of this.

 

 

 

 

Do we really know this? Here's one guy who tried drinking a small glass of high phenol oil every day--

 

Writing for The Conversation, Professor of Tim Spector, of King's College London, attempted to drink a glass of olive oil a day.

 

But while theoretically he recognised the health benefits of an oil-rich diet, in practice it was hard to stomach.

 

Here, he describes how a daily glass of the golden liquid left him feeling worse for wear...

 

I felt nauseous and dizzy. My attempted one week of following the intensive olive oil diet was not going well. 

 

http://www.dailymail...lt-stomach.html

 

 

 

[MissMaggie]

very curious about green olive oils as well and if chlorophyll is a factor here
https://www.barianio...irgin-olive-oil
although I wouldnwait for 2016 on that one....

Light-harvesting chlorophyll pigments enable mammalian mitochondria to capture photonic energy and produce ATP
Chen Xu, Junhua Zhang, Doina M. Mihai, Ilyas Washington
http://jcs.biologist...ntent/127/2/388

this could possibly explain some of the interesting photoreactive variations reported anecdotally. there was also a study ( http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21542456 ) that showed c60+light killed cancer tumours more effectively than just c60 alone.

[aaCharley]

Turnbuckle.

 

Is there a preference for hydroxytyrosol over oleocanthal as the added phenol?  Or is there a reason to combine them as additives?

 

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle.

 

Is there a preference for hydroxytyrosol over oleocanthal as the added phenol?  Or is there a reason to combine them as additives?

 

Depends what you want. They might both work for cancer, but the first seems better for ATP and might be alright for everyday use, but not the second. There are some 30+ pheynols found in olive oil, and it's doubtful they are all helpful for everyone.

[MissMaggie]

I'd never really paid that much attention to Olive Oil before discovering c60oo. Just got hold of the highest PP content I could find locally, about 600, being from last year's harvest I know that will have dropped some, but the look and taste is entirely different from supermarket EVOO. Makes me wonder if we should be asking the sellers of c60oo not just what the concentration of c60 is (whether it is actually what is claimed is another matter) but also what the PP content of the EVOO is? Given this information is found in most high level EVOO competitions then you'd not want to be using anything the ISN'T declaring the content - interestingly, at a local farmers market smallgoods hall, I asked half a dozen merchants who sold EVOO amongst other wares (no specialiats) and not one of them could give any info about PP content. If c60 really is acting as a vehicle or booster of the PP or other content in the EVOO and that's the critical thing, we're going to find high quality EVOO become incredibly valuable. Will report back once my current batch on the stirrer is ready for testing.

[Turnbuckle]

Another in the series of experiments—

 

(11)

One teaspoon of—

 

MCT oil (Viva Labs: “100% capric and caprylic acid.”)

0.6 mg/ml C60

0.8 mg/ml hydroxytyrosol (HT)

 

——

Since capric and caprylic acids are saturated, I expected no reaction with C60, and there appeared to be none. After one day of stirring, the solution was magenta colored, what you’d expect in toluene except a bit turbid due to the 25% purity of the HT powder. There was also no residue, perhaps because the low viscosity of MCT oil allowed faster dissolution. After two days the mix looked exactly the same, so I decided to give it a try at that point.

 

Results: I don’t know if a head to head with the previous trials is possible, as I noticed the small amount of knee pain I’d had for some time was gone. The was either due to the mix or due to happenstance, but in any case I found running was very easy and almost as good as some of the previous trials with olive oil. But as I tried it after only two days, I will give it a few more days mixing to see if it gets better. I expect the reaction between C60 and HT takes time—more than 2 days, anyway.

 

Advantages: By eliminating oleocanthal and all phenols other than HT, it might be possible to take the mix more frequently without seeing a drop off in effects. Then the question remains—especially for those interested in aerobic performance rather than cancer and other things—why not just take a larger dose of HT (or HT in MCT) and dispense with the C60?

 

 

[niner]

Oleocanthal and Oleuropein have olefinic linkages and could possibly react with c60.  Hydroxytyrosol is just a simple catechol, and I don't see an obvious reaction mechanism that would proceed at room temperature without an exotic catalyst.  The problem I have with this polyphenol hypothesis is that we know c60 reacts quite well with unsaturated fatty acids.  We know that c60 has antioxidant effects, and that an oleic acid adduct has the appropriate length to place c60 in an energetically favorable position in a biological membrane.  Further, we know c60 has a propensity for the mitochondrial membrane.  We know that most of the observed effects of c60 are seen with other mitochondrial antioxidants, and those that aren't can be plausibly ascribed to receptor-mediated events.  Thus our starting point is that we are already in possession of a pretty well-supported hypothesis (mitochondrial antioxidant) that makes a lot of sense.   To pursue the polyphenol hypothesis for a moment, consider the relative amount of reactants.  Typical "good" olive oils are in the 300-600ppm polyphenol range.  Only a fraction of these are likely able to react with c60, and even that is open to question.  Thus a liter of olive oil might have 100 mg of polyphenols that could conceivably react, but it has close to a kilogram of triglycerides that we know can react with c60, a ten thousand-fold excess.  Thus, I would expect the vast majority of the c60 to be bound to the fatty acids rather than the polyphenols.  If the biological effects of c60oo were primarily due to polyphenols, the resulting compounds would have to be supremely potent since they would only be present at low concentration. 

 

The best way to test the polyphenol hypothesis would be to synthesize c60oo using a high-oleic safflower oil or a refined olive oil, then trial it in a fullerene-naive subject.  I don't think that we can judge the effects accurately if we've previously been using c60oo, since we are likely to retain a significant amount in our membranes.

[Turnbuckle]

Oleocanthal and Oleuropein have olefinic linkages and could possibly react with c60.  Hydroxytyrosol is just a simple catechol, and I don't see an obvious reaction mechanism that would proceed at room temperature without an exotic catalyst.  The problem I have with this polyphenol hypothesis is that we know c60 reacts quite well with unsaturated fatty acids.  We know that c60 has antioxidant effects, and that an oleic acid adduct has the appropriate length to place c60 in an energetically favorable position in a biological membrane.  Further, we know c60 has a propensity for the mitochondrial membrane.  We know that most of the observed effects of c60 are seen with other mitochondrial antioxidants, and those that aren't can be plausibly ascribed to receptor-mediated events.  Thus our starting point is that we are already in possession of a pretty well-supported hypothesis (mitochondrial antioxidant) that makes a lot of sense.   To pursue the polyphenol hypothesis for a moment, consider the relative amount of reactants.  Typical "good" olive oils are in the 300-600ppm polyphenol range.  Only a fraction of these are likely able to react with c60, and even that is open to question.  Thus a liter of olive oil might have 100 mg of polyphenols that could conceivably react, but it has close to a kilogram of triglycerides that we know can react with c60, a ten thousand-fold excess.  Thus, I would expect the vast majority of the c60 to be bound to the fatty acids rather than the polyphenols.  If the biological effects of c60oo were primarily due to polyphenols, the resulting compounds would have to be supremely potent since they would only be present at low concentration. 

 

The best way to test the polyphenol hypothesis would be to synthesize c60oo using a high-oleic safflower oil or a refined olive oil, then trial it in a fullerene-naive subject.  I don't think that we can judge the effects accurately if we've previously been using c60oo, since we are likely to retain a significant amount in our membranes.

 

 

I agree that HT is probably not going to react with C60, however it will possibly (or even probably) adsorb on its surface. HT is recovered by adsorption techniques and carbon surfaces such as graphene and carbon nanotubes are used for adsorption of certain chemicals, including polyphenols, so it seems likely that some adsorption will take place. An easy way to test it would be to dissolve C60 in MCT and add HT to one half of it and to MCT oil without C60, then the exact same doses of C60 and HT can be compared where they are mixed together or not mixed together (adsorbed or not adsorbed). Even if there is residual C60 in the test subject, this would on average be the same for each in an alternating sequence of multiple trials. As for ruling out oleic acid as the active ingredient behind longevity, that is not easily done without running a longevity experiment. Though I'm convinced that C60EVOO longevity has a good deal to do with a restored ATP output (which HT alone demonstrates, along with the anti-cancer effects of HT and oleocanthal), that is not established.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 30 March 2016 - 12:54 AM.

[niner]

I don't think that polyphenols will adsorb onto a molecular fullerene.  Because the Van der Waals forces involved in physisorption are so small, you need a large interacting surface area from invaginations that can enclose the molecule to be adsorbed.  This is exactly what you'd find in, for example, activated carbon.  However, molecular c60 is spherical and thus presents very little surface for a molecule to adsorb to.

[Logic]

Tyrosol, a main phenol present in extra virgin olive oil, increases lifespan and stress resistance in Caenorhabditis elegans.

Extra virgin olive oil (EVOO) consumption has been traditionally related to a higher longevity in the human population. EVOO effects on health are often attributed to its unique mixture of phenolic compounds with tyrosol and hydroxityrosol being the most biologically active. Although these compounds have been extensively studied in terms of their antioxidant potential and its role in different pathologies, their actual connection with longevity remains unexplored. This study utilized the nematode Caenorhabditis elegans to investigate the possible effects of tyrosol in metazoan longevity. Significant lifespan extension was observed at one specific tyrosol concentration, which also induced a higher resistance to thermal and oxidative stress and delayed the appearance of a biomarker of ageing. We also report that, although tyrosol was efficiently taken up by these nematodes, it did not induce changes in development, body length or reproduction. In addition, lifespan experiments with several mutant strains revealed that components of the heat shock response (HSF-1) and the insulin pathway (DAF-2 and DAF-16) might be implicated in mediating tyrosol effects in lifespan, while caloric restriction and sirtuins do not seem to mediate its effects. Together, our results point to hormesis as a possible mechanism to explain the effects of tyrosol on longevity in C. elegans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../?term=22824366

 

While this study is in worms, the epigenetic pathways affected and hormesis as a MOA fly may be relavant?

This flies in the face of the 'mitochondrial ROS quenching  by C60oo' hypothesis..?

 

The "Significant lifespan extension was observed at one specific tyrosol concentration" could explain why Baati's results are only partially replicated!?
Perhaps the answer lies in figuring out the optimal HED of tyrosol, using the oil used by Baati as a starting point?

Edited by Logic, 30 March 2016 - 10:58 PM.

[niner]

While this study is in worms, the epigenetic pathways affected and hormesis as a MOA fly may be relavant?

This flies in the face of the 'mitochondrial ROS quenching  by C60oo' hypothesis..?

 

Worm results are rarely relevant to humans.   When a new hypothesis flies in the face of a hypothesis that doesn't seem to have any problems, the likely reason is that the new hypothesis is wrong.  But I wouldn't exactly say this "flies in the face" of any hypothesis; it's more that it just doesn't have much basis.  I really don't think tyrosol or hydroxytyrosol will react with c60, for one thing, and then there is the reactant ratio problem I mentioned above. 

[Turnbuckle]

Another in the series of experiments—

 

(11)

One teaspoon of—

 

MCT oil (Viva Labs: “100% capric and caprylic acid.”)

0.6 mg/ml C60

0.8 mg/ml hydroxytyrosol (HT)

 

——

Since capric and caprylic acids are saturated, I expected no reaction with C60, and there appeared to be none. After one day of stirring, the solution was magenta colored, what you’d expect in toluene except a bit turbid due to the 25% purity of the HT powder. There was also no residue, perhaps because the low viscosity of MCT oil allowed faster dissolution. After two days the mix looked exactly the same, so I decided to give it a try at that point.

 

Results: I don’t know if a head to head with the previous trials is possible, as I noticed the small amount of knee pain I’d had for some time was gone. The was either due to the mix or due to happenstance, but in any case I found running was very easy and almost as good as some of the previous trials with olive oil. But as I tried it after only two days, I will give it a few more days mixing to see if it gets better. I expect the reaction between C60 and HT takes time—more than 2 days, anyway.

 

Advantages: By eliminating oleocanthal and all phenols other than HT, it might be possible to take the mix more frequently without seeing a drop off in effects. Then the question remains—especially for those interested in aerobic performance rather than cancer and other things—why not just take a larger dose of HT (or HT in MCT) and dispense with the C60?

 

Another data point to add to #11

 

The mix was not finished after 2 days, it seems. The purple began to get darker and developed a red tinge by day 4, indicating that some reaction was taking place. Something between the solutes, for sure, as the solvent oil is inert. I took one teaspoon as before and noted the following--

 

--the sharp taste of the mix was less than at day two

--going out for a run, the knee pain was back, but disappeared by the time I finished

--the run was easier than my previous trial with #11, and I would put it above all the other trials with olive oil as well

 

Assuming this replicates, I'd say--

 

--oleic acid is not necessary for aerobic benefits

--minor constituents play a role, possibly a major role, and these are phenols, possibly HT

 

I say "possibly HT" because the Olea25 capsules are only 25% HT, and there may be other active ingredients in it. The manufacturer claims there is no oleuropein in it (since it's converted to HT), but is not clear about other components. Their patent application is here.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 31 March 2016 - 01:07 PM.

[Wilberforce]

I'm wondering if there is a way to add one of the formats of this: http://www.lifeexten...Extract/Page-01


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sthira]

I'm wondering if there is a way to add one of the formats of this: http://www.lifeexten...Extract/Page-01


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Fwiw I'm convinced of the health benefits of high polyphenolic olive oil and (possibly) added olive leaf extract (oleuropein) to that oil. So I open capsules and dump in extra oleuropein.

Regarding the health benefits of the Mediterranean Diet (mentioned in your linked piece) I think one overlooked aspect of that lifestyle is the theraputic use of fasting. Feast and famine is a natural way to go. Eat as healthy as possible (dark leafy greens, a wide variety of vegs, berries, legumes, seeds, nuts, some specific grains, and fresh fruit) and then supplement on top of that diet for my own particular issues. Keep insulin low, and fast frequently to attempt senescent cell clearance. Fasting is free, it's been overly maligned by the food industry (sell food, Sell Food, SELL FOOD!!!!), and very comfortable as the body adjusts readily.

Edited by sthira, 17 April 2016 - 05:42 PM.

[Wilberforce]

In terms of adding in, it crossed my mind, but I wondered how it might affect the integrity of the c60oo solution/suspension. I've just bought Comvita's extract that is in glycerin. It would be interesting to get a take from the technical folks here - Niner, Turnbuckle et al.


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[Turnbuckle]

In terms of adding in, it crossed my mind, but I wondered how it might affect the integrity of the c60oo solution/suspension. I've just bought Comvita's extract that is in glycerin. It would be interesting to get a take from the technical folks here - Niner, Turnbuckle et al.


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Since glycerin is not very soluble in oil, better to use a dry powder for the C60OO.

[Nate-2004]

I grind the (SES) powder in a stainless mortar, adding oil dropwise toward the end, then washing it out with oil until the mortar is clear. I then magnetically stir the ground C60 in the EVOO for at least 5 days. (If you don’t grind sufficiently, this could take 2 weeks.) 

 

 

Hey just quoting from your profile page. I had some questions.

 

1. Probably a super dumb question but when you grind the c60 powder I assume this is just to break up clumps? Do they stick together? Does this damage it in any way? I've never seen C60 in person.

2. When you're using the magnetic stirrer, are you just keeping this running for literally 5 days or is it just for a certain amount of time?

3. With the higher polyphenol OO from better online sources boasting as much as 917mg/kg are you still bothering to add the polyphenol supplement?

4. What's the difference between C60 and C70 and would C70 alter what you're trying to accomplish?

5: Other than the quality of olive oil, how close do you think is this methodology of dissolving C60 into OO to what the current lab research sources such as carbon60oliveoil.com are doing? 

 

 

Side note: I appreciate this thread. When you guys have this down to a consistent recipe I'd love to see a video, I could edit it and put text and music to it and make it like those videos you see in a FB thread lol.

 

I'm still debating on whether to do all this and holding out for repeat studies I think, which I know Ichor's got one similar one going and others are trying their own (hopefully with way more rats than just 18).  It'll be 5 years though, that's the sad part. This kind of stuff is always a gamble with time and money.

[shifter]

I've tried both SV c60oo and carbon60's last night. SV oil had a very sharp taste and that felt like my throat was burning. I took the 50ml in one go. Carbon60's didn't have any taste (I took 20ml).

 

If I am to understand the gist of this thread, would that indicate that the olive oil use in SV product is better? (Or I am mixed up). Yet from almost every report in this forum, those who have tried both brands, much prefer and notice positive effects from carbon60's product. Rancid oil is said to be tasteless, and carbon60s oil had no taste and no burn going down. If a lot of American olive oil is cut with cheaper oils, what assurances do we have or are given that the carbon60s olive oil is pure

 

SV website goes into great depth of where and how they get their oil. Do we know where and what oil carbon60 uses?

[Junk Master]

Take it for what it's worth, but I'm half-Italian and have been ingesting large amounts of olive oil since birth and IMO carbon60's OO is most likely California Ranch Olive Oil.  In any event, again, completely subjectively, it is far superior to whatever oil SV is using.

 

Finally, just to be clear, I have NO affiliation with ANY seller.

[Turnbuckle]

 

I grind the (SES) powder in a stainless mortar, adding oil dropwise toward the end, then washing it out with oil until the mortar is clear. I then magnetically stir the ground C60 in the EVOO for at least 5 days. (If you don’t grind sufficiently, this could take 2 weeks.) 

 

 

Hey just quoting from your profile page. I had some questions.

 

1. Probably a super dumb question but when you grind the c60 powder I assume this is just to break up clumps? Do they stick together? Does this damage it in any way? I've never seen C60 in person.

2. When you're using the magnetic stirrer, are you just keeping this running for literally 5 days or is it just for a certain amount of time?

3. With the higher polyphenol OO from better online sources boasting as much as 917mg/kg are you still bothering to add the polyphenol supplement?

4. What's the difference between C60 and C70 and would C70 alter what you're trying to accomplish?

5: Other than the quality of olive oil, how close do you think is this methodology of dissolving C60 into OO to what the current lab research sources such as carbon60oliveoil.com are doing? 

 

 

Side note: I appreciate this thread. When you guys have this down to a consistent recipe I'd love to see a video, I could edit it and put text and music to it and make it like those videos you see in a FB thread lol.

 

I'm still debating on whether to do all this and holding out for repeat studies I think, which I know Ichor's got one similar one going and others are trying their own (hopefully with way more rats than just 18).  It'll be 5 years though, that's the sad part. This kind of stuff is always a gamble with time and money.

 

 

1. The dissolution time for particles is inversely related to the surface area, and if you reduce the particle diameter by ten, you've increased the surface area by a like amount. You will not damage C60 by hand grinding. You could shoot it with a bullet and not damage it. But you want to do this quickly and minimize light exposure. Even room light is a problem. In fact, visible light may be even worse than UV.

2. You keep it running 24 hours a day with a dark cover to prevent light exposure. Minimizing oxygen is also good. Use a capped bottle with little air space, for instance.

3. Even that oil has less than 1 gram per kg of mixed polyphenols, which isn't that much, is it? So it's easy to add far more HT than is present naturally. See mix #8 of this post.

4. C60 and C70 have been shown to go to different places in the cell. C70 goes to the endoplasmic reticulum, where it can interfere with protein folding. You don't want that.

5. I have only a vague idea what these vendors are doing, and I don't trust any of them.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 12 May 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[Huckfinn]

Thanks Turnbuckle for linking this thread.

I have started reading through it and researching at the same time.

It's true that the O.O. you linked is quite expensive.... at the same time, when you say: "....I ordered an oil harvested in November of 2015 with a polyphenol content of 608 (Pruneti Frantoio). Again, I found this even better. My next step—in the works—is a mix using an October 2015 oil with a polyphenol content of 917 (De Carlo Tenuta Torre di Mossa)......."

 

Researching Olive Oils based on your criteria, I found: https://www.naturame...vie-pharma.html , which is linked from here: http://www.professeur-joyeux.com/huile-la-plus-puissante-pour-votre-sante/

 

....... (I currently live in France.....)..it's In french but easily" google translatable"

Apparently this Oil has a Polyphenol count of....2840

Being even MORE expensive: ....would it be worth it?

Edited by Huckfinn, 12 May 2016 - 02:28 PM.

[Huckfinn]

here's the link, sorry: http://www.professeur-joyeux.com/huile-la-plus-puissante-pour-votre-sante/