231 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

Don't worry so much, Nate. Just keep it free of light while mixing. Without light, the reaction rate should be very slow. If you want to extract the oxygen afterward, then a simple bell jar vacuum treatment should do the job after it's mixed in the dark. After that, fill your dark glass bottles with little airspace and freeze them. And if you use MCT oil rather than olive oil and add HT as I did above, the rancidity problem is greatly reduced. (The creation of  C60 epoxides may be a problem for longevity, but has not been demonstrated.)

 

The result I had in post #119 I believe is extraordinary. How can gum grow this fast? It had to be the C60 and/or HT, and there was no olive oil at all, just added HT to the C60 in MCT oil.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 11 June 2016 - 03:30 AM.

[Nate-2004]

Don't worry so much, Nate. Just keep it free of light while mixing. Without light, the reaction rate should be very slow. If you want to extract the oxygen afterward, then a simple bell jar vacuum treatment should do the job after it's mixed in the dark. After that, fill your dark glass bottles with little airspace and freeze them. And if you use MCT oil rather than olive oil and add HT as I did above, the rancidity problem is greatly reduced. (The creation of  C60 epoxides may be a problem for longevity, but has not been demonstrated.)

 

The result I had in post #119 I believe is extraordinary. How can gum grow this fast? It had to be the C60 and/or HT, and there was no olive oil at all, just added HT to the C60 in MCT oil.

 

I've never heard of MCT oil till just now. I wasn't sure what you were talking about. Why is the rancidity problem greatly reduced for MCT oil? What about the polyphenol thing?

 

Keeping it free of light seems to be the biggest problem during mixing, because I have to see to mix it and see at least momentarily to make sure it's mixing.

 

I think this Evak container might work if I find a way to make a shield for it to prevent any light from entering.  Not sure how a bell jar works as far as keeping air out of the container or extracting oxygen.

[Empiricus]

 

Keeping it free of light seems to be the biggest problem during mixing, because I have to see to mix it and see at least momentarily to make sure it's mixing.

 

Whatever jar I use for stirring, I wrap it in aluminum foil to keep out the light. 

 

Edited by Empiricus, 11 June 2016 - 06:51 AM.

[Empiricus]

The result I had in post #119 I believe is extraordinary. How can gum grow this fast? It had to be the C60 and/or HT, and there was no olive oil at all, just added HT to the C60 in MCT oil.

 

I see that you'd also been taking 2 G of Alcar/day in addition to the NAC.  I've read on your profile page where you explain why you take the NAC, but what was your thinking about taking Alcar with the C60? 

 

By the way, isn't Alcar best taken with ALA?  What might be the advantage to taking it by itself?  

Edited by Empiricus, 11 June 2016 - 07:17 AM.

[Empiricus]

The result I had in post #119 I believe is extraordinary. How can gum grow this fast? It had to be the C60 and/or HT, and there was no olive oil at all, just added HT to the C60 in MCT oil.

 

I see that you'd also been taking 2 G of Alcar/day in addition to the NAC.  I understand that you take NAC to boost glutathione in case C60 depletes it, but I'm curious about your reasoning behind taking Alcar with the C60.   I was under the impression Alcar should be taken with ALA.  In theory, what advantage might there be to taking Alcar without ALA? Is it thought to do something in combination with NAC?

Edited by Empiricus, 11 June 2016 - 07:19 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

The result I had in post #119 I believe is extraordinary. How can gum grow this fast? It had to be the C60 and/or HT, and there was no olive oil at all, just added HT to the C60 in MCT oil.

 

I see that you'd also been taking 2 G of Alcar/day in addition to the NAC.  I understand that you take NAC to boost glutathione in case C60 depletes it, but I'm curious about your reasoning behind taking Alcar with the C60.   I was under the impression Alcar should be taken with ALA.  In theory, what advantage might there be to taking Alcar without ALA? Is it thought to do something in combination with NAC?

 

 

I'd been taking a daily dose of 1 g  of glutathione in preference to 600 mg NAC as I found it far less aggressive on the stomach. However, mixing NAC into fruit juice with lecithin to aid dispersal eliminated that problem, and NAC does appear to be more effective than oral glutathione. Still, it has other potential problems and I won't be taking it on a regular basis.

 

Is ALCAR with NAC better? I think it is, but after a cursory search, I didn't find any pubmed research where they have been tried together. There are papers where they've been tried separately with good results, but the researchers never seem to think of combining them.

 

I often do take ALA with ALCAR, but I did not in this case. Nothing can be said with any assurance by the one incident I reported above with the wisdom tooth removal, but taking the combination without ALA certainly did not hurt too much, as I can't imagine the gum healing up any faster. 

 

As for taking ALCAR with C60, I'm in the 60-70 range, so I would be taking it anyway. I do believe, however, that if one increases the ATP output of mitochondria with C60, free radical production will also go up and thus supplements to deal with that will be useful and perhaps even necessary. Some believe that C60 is a magical anti-oxidant and does its thing through that property, but I don't agree. It can't even protect itself from oxidation when dissolved in oil and exposed to room light. 

[Turnbuckle]

 

Don't worry so much, Nate. Just keep it free of light while mixing. Without light, the reaction rate should be very slow. If you want to extract the oxygen afterward, then a simple bell jar vacuum treatment should do the job after it's mixed in the dark. After that, fill your dark glass bottles with little airspace and freeze them. And if you use MCT oil rather than olive oil and add HT as I did above, the rancidity problem is greatly reduced. (The creation of  C60 epoxides may be a problem for longevity, but has not been demonstrated.)

 

The result I had in post #119 I believe is extraordinary. How can gum grow this fast? It had to be the C60 and/or HT, and there was no olive oil at all, just added HT to the C60 in MCT oil.

 

I've never heard of MCT oil till just now. I wasn't sure what you were talking about. Why is the rancidity problem greatly reduced for MCT oil? What about the polyphenol thing?

 

Keeping it free of light seems to be the biggest problem during mixing, because I have to see to mix it and see at least momentarily to make sure it's mixing.

 

I think this Evak container might work if I find a way to make a shield for it to prevent any light from entering.  Not sure how a bell jar works as far as keeping air out of the container or extracting oxygen.

 

 

The MCT oil was the vehicle of mix #11 that I reported on back in post #44 and in subsequent posts.

 

The oil I used was from Viva Labs and is advertised as "100% capric and caprylic acid." Together these make up about 15% of coconut oil. Since they are saturated fats, they are more stable than fats like the monounsaturated oleic acid of olive oil, which itself is more stable than polyunsaturated fats such as linoleic acid, which is also in olive oil. I used MCT oil to demonstrate that the olive oil itself is not important, only its minor constituents such as polyphenols, of which HT is possibly the most important. Since HT can be bought in capsules and added to the mix, a C60 solution can potentially be made that is less sensitive to rancidity, more consistent, and more effective than one made with olive oil.

 

As for light, just minimize it. It won't instantly go bad if you look at it.

[Turnbuckle]

Another in the series of experiments—

 

(12)

One teaspoon of—

 

MCT oil base (Viva Labs: “100% capric and caprylic acid.”)

 

.7 mg/ml — C60 (SES 99.95%)

.5 mg/ml — HT (from olive leaf extract, Olea25)

5  IU/ml — Vitamin E (the Baati oil had high E content)

 

C60 was dry ground into HT extract and all ingredients were magnetically stirred for 4 days then vacuum filtered at 0.22 microns.

 

I haven't tried this mix yet. Picture is attached. (This is the mix in the filter receptacle, after which it was transferred to several 8 oz amber bottles and frozen.)

 

 

 

Attached Files

•  C60 in MCT oil.png   132.87KB   22 downloads

[Empiricus]

 

C60 was dry ground into HT extract and all ingredients were magnetically stirred for 4 days then vacuum filtered at 0.22 microns.

 

Remarkable color!  

 

I see you went back to filtering for this batch.  Any particular reason?  (I'm guessing you were trying to replicate Baati with this batch in all respects feasible, so you have just one variable). 

 

Do you happen to know how many microns a polyphenol molecule is?  I ask because the only filter I own is a pump-style water purifier that filters to .05 to .1 microns.  Would that be too small to bother?  

Edited by Empiricus, 16 June 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

C60 was dry ground into HT extract and all ingredients were magnetically stirred for 4 days then vacuum filtered at 0.22 microns.

 

Remarkable color!  

 

I see you went back to filtering for this batch.  Any particular reason?  (I'm guessing you were trying to replicate Baati with this batch in all respects feasible, so you have just one variable). 

 

Do you happen to know how many microns a polyphenol molecule is?  I ask because the only filter I own is a pump-style water purifier that filters to .05 to .1 microns.  Would that be too small to bother?  

 

 

 

I filtered it to see how much C60 was undissolved. There was some on the filter, so 4 days was cutting it a little short, even though C60 appears to dissolve rather more quickly due to the low viscosity of MCT oil. Either that or .7 mg/ml was too close to the solubility limit. The mix was murky initially due to the non-soluble components of the Olea25, but this falls out even without filtering to produce a more or less clear purple. Another factor--some sediment occurs even while mixing, and that may trap some of the C60 and prevent it from dissolving.

 

As yet I have no opinion on the vitamin E I added, but both mixes I prepared with MCT and added HT appear to be stronger than that mixed with olive oil. At least they appear to potentiate my hypertension medication and I've had to cut back on it. I hadn't seen that before with olive oil mixes.

 

HT is a much smaller molecule than C60, so I wouldn't worry about it going through a filter.

[Turnbuckle]

Note: I like this mix (#12 of post 128) and am presently using a half to a full teaspoon on a daily basis for a week, then a week off. (Next time I make this, I will use pure caprylic acid (C8), as this should be even less viscous, thus further increasing the speed of dissolution.)

Edited by Turnbuckle, 21 June 2016 - 12:28 AM.

[Empiricus]

 

I'm experiencing quite the opposite. Since finishing my De Carlo olive oil (late 2015 harvest date) magnetically mixed with SES 99.95% for 5+ days.

 

I feel much sharper in thought, considerably more energy, my sleep is more intense, my work out yesterday felt easy.

 

However, it is possible that none of that is contributable to the C60OO. I also don't know how hold you are compared to me, I'm 42.

My stack is:

 

C60OO 

Nicotinamide Riboside 500mg to 1g+ per day.

Resveratrol / Pterostilbene 250/50 2x per day w/Niagen

Honokiol 200mg 1x per day w/Niagen

L-theanine 400mg 1hr before bed. (GABA)

Taurine + B6 1000/20mg 1hr before bed. (GABA)

Collagen Peptides 11g 1hr before bed

Melatonin 3mg 1hr before bed

 

It could be any one of these things or none of them. It could just be my diet or the excellent sleep I get. This is all one big expensive experiment but so far I feel fucking amazing. If that's a placebo effect, then it's one hell of a long lasting one.

 

 

Having been off c60 for 2 weeks,  I just took NR for 6 days. First couple days at 250 mg/day then reduced to 125/day.  Now this is my second bottle, but different brand (first bottle seemed to do nothing except for one time when I jacked it to 1 gram). Nate's exuberance made me curious, and I at least I had experienced something at 1 gram, so I bought another bottle. 

 

I began concentrating easily and feeling well-rested and alert throughout the day, basically operating at a much higher level. In fact, it would be difficult to exaggerate the improvement. By way of supplements, I was taking nothing else likely to account for the upgrade in my performance. Only thing I took consistently was NR on an empty stomach at night and/or in the morning (sublingual when taking only 125 mg/day).

 

As weekend approached I went off the NR, took a PQQ before a big run, then followed up with about 2.0 mg c60 (no added HT).   After taking the c60, I got the usual feeling that I had more physical strength (something NR didn't seem to have much effect on).  The day after taking c60, prior to resuming NR, I felt like I had a lot of physical energy. I may give this routine -- it's something of an interpretation of Turnbuckle's mitochondria protocol-- a go for a while.  Partly my intention is to get maximal time on NR, but not let the NR wear out its welcome. Speaking of which, the only negative side effect so far on NR seems to be sore foot arches. Interestingly, a number of others have reported this with NR. 

Edited by Empiricus, 27 June 2016 - 12:20 PM.

[Empiricus]

 

 

I'm experiencing quite the opposite. Since finishing my De Carlo olive oil (late 2015 harvest date) magnetically mixed with SES 99.95% for 5+ days.

 

I feel much sharper in thought, considerably more energy, my sleep is more intense, my work out yesterday felt easy... 

 

Having been off c60 for 2 weeks,  I just took NR for 6 days. First couple days at 250 mg/day then reduced to 125/day.  Now this is my second bottle, but different brand (first bottle seemed to do nothing except for one time when I jacked it to 1 gram). Nate's exuberance made me curious, and I at least I had experienced something at 1 gram, so I bought another bottle. 

 

I began concentrating easily and feeling well-rested and alert throughout the day, basically operating at a much higher level. In fact, it would be difficult to exaggerate the improvement....  

 

I posted a follow-up report here:  http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=781038

[Turnbuckle]

Another batch using caprylic acid triglyceride (Keto8 from Ketosports) as a carrier.

 

This batch initially contained .7 mg/ml HT and .9 mg/ml C60 (99.95%), stirred for 7 days in the dark and vacuum filtered at .22 microns. A good deal of dark purple material covered the filter, so likely the actual concentration is less than .9 mg/ml C60. Filtering went very fast due to the low viscosity.

 

Picture below--

 

 

 

 

Attached Files

•  C60 in Keto8.jpg   87.08KB   14 downloads

[dachshund]

Hi Turnbuckle, Thanks for all the interesting work you have been doing with the C60.  What do you think the stabilization//solublization mechanism is for C60 in caprylic acid triglyceride?  As I recall, the general theory is that unsaturation in the olive oil lipids reacts with double bonds in the C60 framework.  Caprylic acid triglyceride is fully saturated so this would not be possible.  It would be great to know what concentration you achieve in this liquid vehicle.

[Huckfinn]

Another batch using caprylic acid triglyceride (Keto8 from Ketosports) as a carrier.

 

This batch initially contained .7 mg/ml HT and .9 mg/ml C60 (99.95%), stirred for 7 days in the dark and vacuum filtered at .22 microns. A good deal of dark purple material covered the filter, so likely the actual concentration is less than .9 mg/ml C60. Filtering went very fast due to the low viscosity.

 

Picture below--

Hi Turnbuckle,

Although your picture is NOT of C60/EVOO, I was thinking: is that the colour c60evoo is "supposed" to have when ready?

I'm asking because my home made one never looked this purple, just kind of brownish...

 

Thanks!

H.

[Turnbuckle]

Hi Turnbuckle, Thanks for all the interesting work you have been doing with the C60.  What do you think the stabilization//solublization mechanism is for C60 in caprylic acid triglyceride?  As I recall, the general theory is that unsaturation in the olive oil lipids reacts with double bonds in the C60 framework.  Caprylic acid triglyceride is fully saturated so this would not be possible.  It would be great to know what concentration you achieve in this liquid vehicle.

 

C60 probably does react with unsaturated components of olive oil, and some have hypothesized that this reaction is good and even necessary, but it remains no more than a hypothesis. Baati et al were not the first to find that C60 increased the lifespan of rodents. Two related US patents issued some years ago claimed a 20% increase in mice longevity for "malonic acid/acetic acid C60 tri-adducts of buckminsterfullerene." At that time people didn't know they could dissolve C60 in a food oil and they were looking for ways of increasing its solubility in water. According to this patent--

 

Buckminsterfullerene, C60, is a carbon sphere with 12 pentagons and 20 hexagons, soluble in aromatic solvents but not in water... [and C60 with] ... malonic acid/acetic acid tri-adducts display additional desirable qualities including increased water solubility...A number of water-soluble C60 derivatives (superoxide dismutase-mimetics) retain the antioxidant properties of their parent fullerene molecule, allowing its free radical scavenging abilities to be exploited in biological systems and thereby act as agents which reduce cell damage and death. 

 

 

Certainly you can make a stable solution of naked C60 in toluene and other industrial solvents, but that's not going to confer life extension as such solvents are toxic.

 

This patent suggests that adducts aren't necessary, but their life extension was only a fraction of what was found by the Baati group with C60 in olive oil. So where did the rest come from?

 

There are several possibilities. For instance, after the first week Baati dosed it once every two weeks and not every day. Also, and perhaps more importantly, olive oil already has a reputation for conferring long life. The oldest woman in the world until a few years ago claimed that she had a glass of olive oil every day. And most don't realize that the olive oil control showed as much life extension as C60 did in the patent above. Olive oil contains polyphenols, at least one of which is one of the most powerful natural antioxidants known. Hydroxytyrosol (HT) is a powerful antioxidant found in olive oil and is known to increase chronological lifespan--

 

In summary, our results show HT, a major polyphenol in olive oil, extends CLS [chronological lifespan] in fibroblasts by enhancing MnSOD activity thereby suppressing an age-associated accumulation of mitochondrial ROS. The antioxidant properties of HT could be due to its catechol–semiquinone–quinone redox cycling properties leading to a prooxidant environment, which then activates the cellular antioxidant defense system (Fig. 7). These results are also of significance in vivo in understanding the molecular and cellular biology of quiescence. Adult stem cells, progenitor cells of the bone marrow, and cells in the liver and intestines are a few examples of cellular quiescence in vivo. The extended CLS and ability to remain in quiescence may be responsible for their longevity. It would be of interest to know if CLS is present in stem cells and whether antioxidants extend CLS thereby facilitating cell and tissue renewal. Finally, the quiescent cell culture system used in our study can be adapted to investigate the cellular and molecular biology of CLS, which is distinct from the “mitotic counting” and “telomere attrition” pathways of replicative senescence.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3260369/

 

 

So it's my hypothesis (slightly shifted from the OP) that the combination of dissolved C60 plus one or more polyphenols in the oil act synergistically to enhance longevity. And if you could find a stable, nonreactive oil to dissolve C60 along with HT, you could improve on the Baati mix in several important ways. For instance, you could eliminate the variability inherent in olive oil, eliminate the uncontrolled reactivity of the oil, and supply a mix with more polyphenols than exist naturally.

 

As for your question about caprylic acid triglyceride, the solubility appears to be less than .6 mg/ml C60--less than that of olive oil where it reacts, but not greatly less.

 

Huckfinn: As to your question about color, see this post.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 05 July 2016 - 11:03 AM.

[niner]

 

Hi Turnbuckle, Thanks for all the interesting work you have been doing with the C60.  What do you think the stabilization//solublization mechanism is for C60 in caprylic acid triglyceride?  As I recall, the general theory is that unsaturation in the olive oil lipids reacts with double bonds in the C60 framework.  Caprylic acid triglyceride is fully saturated so this would not be possible.  It would be great to know what concentration you achieve in this liquid vehicle.

 
C60 probably does react with unsaturated components of olive oil, and some have hypothesized that this reaction is good and even necessary, but it remains no more than a hypothesis.

There have been numerous demonstrations of C60 reacting with unsaturated hydrocarbons, per the work of Cataldo and others.  That this reaction occurs is more than just a hypothesis; in fact the products of C60 reacting with linoleate were characterized by Kadowicki et al.  (Kadowaki, A., Iwamoto, S. & Yamauchi, R. Reaction products of [60]fullerene during the autoxidation of methyl linoleate in bulk phase. Chem. Phys. Lipids 165, 178–185 (2012))

 

It's probably the case that C60 is dissolving in the glycerol caprylate, unless it's somehow reacting with it via a radical mechanism.  It would be interesting to analyze it and figure out what's going on.  I wonder if Kelsey would be up for that?

 

If the c60-caprylate ester is a true solution, then what happens to the c60 in the body?  Does it react with the first unsaturated fatty acid it sees?  Or does it form Andrievsky's hydrated fullerene?  (I suspect that Andrievsky's hydrated fullerenes eventually react with unsaturated fatty acids in the body.)

 

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Hi Turnbuckle, Thanks for all the interesting work you have been doing with the C60.  What do you think the stabilization//solublization mechanism is for C60 in caprylic acid triglyceride?  As I recall, the general theory is that unsaturation in the olive oil lipids reacts with double bonds in the C60 framework.  Caprylic acid triglyceride is fully saturated so this would not be possible.  It would be great to know what concentration you achieve in this liquid vehicle.

 
C60 probably does react with unsaturated components of olive oil, and some have hypothesized that this reaction is good and even necessary, but it remains no more than a hypothesis.

There have been numerous demonstrations of C60 reacting with unsaturated hydrocarbons, per the work of Cataldo and others.  That this reaction occurs is more than just a hypothesis; in fact the products of C60 reacting with linoleate were characterized by Kadowicki et al.  (Kadowaki, A., Iwamoto, S. & Yamauchi, R. Reaction products of [60]fullerene during the autoxidation of methyl linoleate in bulk phase. Chem. Phys. Lipids 165, 178–185 (2012))

 

It's probably the case that C60 is dissolving in the glycerol caprylate, unless it's somehow reacting with it via a radical mechanism.  It would be interesting to analyze it and figure out what's going on.  I wonder if Kelsey would be up for that?

 

If the c60-caprylate ester is a true solution, then what happens to the c60 in the body?  Does it react with the first unsaturated fatty acid it sees?  Or does it form Andrievsky's hydrated fullerene?  (I suspect that Andrievsky's hydrated fullerenes eventually react with unsaturated fatty acids in the body.)

 

 

 

I meant that the reaction being "good and even necessary" was a hypothesis. Personally I don't believe random olive oil adducts are a good thing, nor do I believe it is happening in MCT oil. If it were reacting I'd expect a color shift with time and I haven't see it, at least over a period of a couple of months. As for it reacting in the body, I would be surprised if it didn't, but how fast is unknown. From observing the color change in a clear unsaturated oil, it appears to be a slow process. If it were fast, reacting it before it went into the body might make sense, and by using MCT oil as a base, you have that option by adding in a controlled amount of reactant. 

[MacTum]

eliminate the variability inherent in olive oil, eliminate the uncontrolled reactivity of the oil

 

I know its a long shot...

 

How about adding milk proteins to the mix?

Protection against oxidation?

 

From chapter 14 onwards.

 

https://books.google... in oil&f=false

[Turnbuckle]

 

How about adding milk proteins to the mix?

 

 

I don't see the logic, MacTum. In any case I'm using MCT oil now, which is considerably more stable against rancidity.

 

------------------------

As for MCT oil, I'm still using the MCT mix #12 (post 128), now taking 3 mg C60 six days a week with no off week. The seventh day is my NAD+ day, using niacin & NR. So far the subjective effects have not faded. I mentioned previously how my gum grew over an extracted wisdom tooth in 4 hours, and in addition aerobic capacity and skin quality are excellent.

 

------------------------

A note on processing mix #12. Next time I will stir the C60 for several days before adding in the  Olea25, as the insoluble fraction tends to capture C60 particles and prevent them from dissolving. I will also not filter it, and the filter materials I have are polyethersulfone, which appears to dissolve and craze in MCT oil.

------------------------

Edited by Turnbuckle, 10 August 2016 - 10:06 PM.

[Nate-2004]

 

 

How about adding milk proteins to the mix?

 

 

I don't see the logic, MacTum. In any case I'm using MCT oil now, which is considerably more stable against rancidity.

 

------------------------

As for MCT oil, I'm still using the MCT mix #12 (post 128), now taking 3 mg C60 six days a week with no off week. The seventh day is my NAD+ day, using niacin & NR. So far the subjective effects have not faded. I mentioned previously how my gum grew over an extracted wisdom tooth in 4 hours, and in addition aerobic capacity and skin quality are excellent.

 

------------------------

A note on processing mix #12. Next time I will stir the C60 for several days before adding in the  Olea25, as the insoluble fraction tends to capture C60 particles and prevent them from dissolving. I will also not filter it, and the filter materials I have are polyethersulfone, which appears to dissolve and craze in MCT oil.

------------------------

 

 

The skin quality is it continuously improving or just staying the same? Wrinkles fading at all?

[Turnbuckle]

 

The skin quality is it continuously improving or just staying the same? Wrinkles fading at all?

 

 

I seems better than it did taking C60 in EVOO once a week. As for wrinkles, I really don't have any. Skin pinch test is less than one second in all areas except elbows and the skin between upper eyelid and brow.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 10 August 2016 - 11:50 PM.

[Nate-2004]

 

 

The skin quality is it continuously improving or just staying the same? Wrinkles fading at all?

 

 

I seems better than it did taking C60 in EVOO once a week. As for wrinkles, I really don't have any. Skin pinch test is less than one second in all areas except elbows and the skin between upper eyelid and brow.

 

 

The things the skin test doesn't account for though is the overall change in shape of the face, the more sunken look around the eyes and the deeper wrinkles that are there when we smile, mostly all due to the loss of collagen. While I have no resting wrinkles and the elasticity test you linked is still less than a second for me, I see a huge difference in the way my face appears, the shape of my eyes, the way my eyeballs sit in my eye compared to the youthful look I had even 12 years ago at the age of 30.

 

What I'm wanting is that collagen back and whatever causes the slowing of collagen production is what I'm hoping to reverse or improve.

[Turnbuckle]

 

What I'm wanting is that collagen back and whatever causes the slowing of collagen production is what I'm hoping to reverse or improve.

 

 

 

C60 may not improve the collagen content of skin, or if it does, not as fast as you might like. For example, from what I've seen here, people taking C60 haven't seen any big improvement in tendon strength, and in fact they've seen more injuries than usual. This may be because aerobic strength is increased almost immediately due to the large impact on mitochondria and the large number of mitochondria in muscle cells compared to the relatively paltry number of mitochondria in tendons and ligaments. So I expect it will be necessary to look elsewhere--like to NAD+. I took grams of niacin every day for decades and my skin looked great well into my forties, when someone got me worried about the effect of niacin on the liver, so I stopped. My skin soon began to look older, but it wasn't until years later that I connected the two. Nowadays I take it only intermittently, careful not to take C60 and niacin (or any NAD+ precursor) at the same time due to the potential negative interaction. Certainly cosmetics companies are including NAD+ stimulants in their products to boost collagen production.

 

Another skin enhancer is retinol--

 

Molecular basis of retinol anti-ageing properties in naturally aged human skin in vivo.

 

OBJECTIVE:

Retinoic acid has been shown to improve the aged-appearing skin. However, less is known about the anti-ageing effects of retinol (ROL, vitamin A), a precursor of retinoic acid, in aged human skin in vivo. This study aimed to investigate the molecular basis of ROL anti-ageing properties in naturally aged human skin in vivo.

 

RESULTS:

Topical ROL shows remarkable anti-ageing effects through three major types of skin cells: epidermal keratinocytes, dermal endothelial cells and fibroblasts. Topical ROL significantly increased epidermal thickness by stimulating keratinocytes proliferation and upregulation of c-Jun transcription factor. In addition to epidermal changes, topical ROL significantly improved dermal extracellular matrix (ECM) microenvironment; increasing dermal vascularity by stimulating endothelial cells proliferation and ECM production (type I collagen, fibronectin and elastin) by activating dermal fibroblasts. Topical ROL also stimulates TGF-β/CTGF pathway, the major regulator of ECM homeostasis, and thus enriched the deposition of ECM in aged human skin in vivo. 0.4% topical ROL achieved similar results as seen with topical retinoic acid, the biologically active form of ROL, without causing noticeable signs of retinoid side effects.

 

[Nate-2004]

Nowadays I take it only intermittently, careful not to take C60 and niacin (or any NAD+ precursor) at the same time due to the potential negative interaction. Certainly cosmetics companies are including NAD+ stimulants in their products to boost collagen production.

 

I've been taking C60 with NR the whole time, 3 months now, I've not noticed any negative interaction thus far. Why would C60 and NR be a bad thing?

 

The lack of collagen + muscle improvement may explain the injuries. I can see how that would work.

 

I've been taking collagen peptides for more than 90 days now in addition to all this. I took an after picture to compare to a very similar picture I took at the very beginning of all this, there are some subtle but noticeable differences especially around my eyes. Much less sunken just around my eyeballs. They have that crescent shape again when I smile. My face and smile look brighter, the shape of my eyes have changed (reverted) to some degree. I'm also comparing these side by side along with a picture of me at 29 in a very similar pose. While it's still a bit far from my 29 year old self it's definitely closer to my 37 year old self (5 years ago). It was encouraging enough for me to give it another 60 days and see. Maybe I'm imagining things, but I tried so hard 90 days ago to give off the same bright smile that I easily gave off multiple times 90 days later.

 

I've also recently been adding NR to a hyaluronic acid gel I made that includes vitamin C. The NR is unstable in water and begins to degrade after 6 hrs but I only add it with each application. I want to see if there is a difference between that and the ceramide/nicotinamide cream I was using from CereVe.

 

I realize this is all a very shotgun like approach I'm taking, but self-experimentation is hardly scientific anyway.

[HHM]

I've been using C60oo since 2012. In the beginning I bought the premade product from SV but since 2013 I have made it myself experimenting with various qualities of olive oil and various purity degrees of C60. I believe I can judge the product effectiveness from impact on my hair (growth and vibrant feel). From that I have come to following conclusions:
1) The purity of C60 is most important but opposite of what I expected. The highest purity (99.99 UHP) wasn't effective at all. The lowest purity that I tested (99.9 PURIFIED) was better than the medium purity (99.95 ULTRA PURE VACUUM OVEN DRIED)
2) Fresh olive oil is better than aged olive oil
3) Quality of olive oil in regards to polyphenol content is not important

I have never used a stirrer for mixing in order to avoid aeration via the vortex. I have just grinded the c60, put it into the OO, topped up the bottle to avoid air, capped the bottle and stored in the dark for 1-2weeks (with an occasional shake). The c60 is from SES.

Recently I tried to mix c60 99.9% into caprylic acid (Keto8 from Ketosports). The effect seems to be equal to best effect from c60oo. I therefore do not believe in the polyphenol hypothesis suggested by Turnbuckle.


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[Nate-2004]

I may get some MCT oil and use that instead from now on, though I don't know that I'm even sold on C60 at all at this point. I do have a bit of C60 left to mix though so if I'm going to mix it in anything just to try, I'll use the MCT. I planned to mix pterostilbene and honokiol in the MCT without C60, as they're both lipophilic and it may make a better carrier for bioavailability than powder alone.

[Turnbuckle]

I've been using C60oo since 2012. In the beginning I bought the premade product from SV but since 2013 I have made it myself experimenting with various qualities of olive oil and various purity degrees of C60. I believe I can judge the product effectiveness from impact on my hair (growth and vibrant feel). From that I have come to following conclusions:
1) The purity of C60 is most important but opposite of what I expected. The highest purity (99.99 UHP) wasn't effective at all. The lowest purity that I tested (99.9 PURIFIED) was better than the medium purity (99.95 ULTRA PURE VACUUM OVEN DRIED)
2) Fresh olive oil is better than aged olive oil
3) Quality of olive oil in regards to polyphenol content is not important

I have never used a stirrer for mixing in order to avoid aeration via the vortex. I have just grinded the c60, put it into the OO, topped up the bottle to avoid air, capped the bottle and stored in the dark for 1-2weeks (with an occasional shake). The c60 is from SES.

Recently I tried to mix c60 99.9% into caprylic acid (Keto8 from Ketosports). The effect seems to be equal to best effect from c60oo. I therefore do not believe in the polyphenol hypothesis suggested by Turnbuckle.


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If 99.9 > 99.95 > 99.99, then why haven't you tried 99.5, which ought to be substantially better? And cheaper, besides.

 

One thing to note, the purer the C60, the more difficult it will be to dissolve as the crystal structure will be less disordered, so it's possible that without stirring, the purer mixes weren't dissolved to the same concentration.

[HHM]

Good points. The difference in dissolved amount of C60 might explain the experienced difference in effectiveness. I did note increased portion of undissolved residue with increasing purity of c60


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