4 replies to this topic

[Ric Rhodiola]

Good Evening, 
For starters, don't recommend any nootropic/smart drug that needs a prescription; only natural stuff please. With that out of the way let's discuss natural stacks and possible interactions with other powerful herbal nootropics.
I've tried Rhodiola and it's definitely a powerful adaptogen. It helps me deal with stressful situations and makes me feel in control which is a very empowering feeling. However I was looking for something that can improve my short term memory and my ability to stay focused and learn/retain new information. Rhodiola definitely improves focus - but I feel that I'm building resistance over time - and improves memory slightly.
I stumbled upon Ciltep and smart caffeine. The simple and attractive concept behind these two products seems very alluring. I was wondering if the Ciltep Stack would work synergistically with bacopa or rhodiola; or even both.    
Theoretically speaking, how would the PDE4 inhibitors and the cAMP increase interact with the serotonergic properties of Rhodiola; or how it would interact with the neurological connections that improve memory formation associated with Bacopa. 
If possible, I would love to hear a scientific approach, but try to abbreviate your jargon as much as possible please - unfortunately I'm no expert.
If you have any other suggestions of how to take, other supplements/herbs to stack with, feel free to mention them.

Just a short note to conclude. I suffer from gastroesophageal reflux disease and anxiety. I've heard that bacopa is really hard on the stomach :/. At the time being I had to stop taking my lovely omega-3 supplement because it's to hard on my stomach. 
The same with coffee. I love the caffeine effect but when the inflammation triggers in my stomach my anxiety kicks really bad. I start getting really shaky and suffer from the usual caffeine roller-coaster. When I drink tea I don't feel anxious, but neither awake or energized. So maybe the caffeine and L-Theanine will work well hand to hand?
Let me know your thoughts and thank you for your time. 

Best Regards

[Kinesis]

Hi Ric!  This may not completely address your issues but I noticed your post has gone unanswered for a couple weeks and think it deserves response.  For cognitive and affective support I take both rhodiola and bacopa in a one-stop stack from Swanson they call "Emotional Wellness Pills".  It contains five standardized herbal extracts: hypericum (SJW), rhodiola, ashwaganda, bacopa, and apocynium.  I don't get any stomach upset from it even taken on an empty stomach; more sensitive stomachs could try it with food.  I also take a probiotic from Life Extension called Flora Assist Mood.  I'm not a fan of fish-based omega-3s so I eat some flax seeds a couple times a week for ALA and take algal-oil based supplements for DHA and EPA; Source Naturals has a product they call DHA Neuromins and another called Vegan Omega 3.  I only take those with food and haven't experienced any stomach upset from them.  Besides taking a comprehensive multi-vitamin-mineral supplement, I also take turmeric, green tea and blueberry extracts and use olive and coconut oils liberally. 

 

Since you are most interested in natural stuff , you might want to check out probiotics, especially if there are coexistent GI and CNS concerns.  There has been a lot of research in just the past few years on the so-called "gut-brain" axis; turns out there is a much closer connection between the gastrointestinal tract and central nervous system than previously realized.  The human body harbors on the order of 100 trillion bacteria, mostly in the digestive tract, and these bacteria appear to communicate with the brain via the vagus nerve and an elaborate network of innervation in the gut sometimes even referred to as a "second brain".  Many even secrete neurotransmitters such as serotonin and GABA.  I don't think I'm allowed to post links yet, but the scientific studies are solid.  If you go to Mental Health Daily, there is an article called "10 Best Probiotics for Depression and Anxiety: Gut-Brain Axis Modification", that cites a number of these studies as well as giving a great synopsis of which species of bacteria do which things.  Besides the vagus nerve connection, many of these bacteria also modify the immune response and turn dietary fiber into short-chain fatty acids like acetic and butyric acids that are good neurological food.

 

Best of health to you!

 

[sativa]

Hi,

Here is some detailed information on Rhodiola rosea:

http://herbs.mxf.yuk...f-psychoactives

Pleaae be careful when combining it with other active substances.

[Ric Rhodiola]

Hi Ric!  This may not completely address your issues but I noticed your post has gone unanswered for a couple weeks and think it deserves response.  For cognitive and affective support I take both rhodiola and bacopa in a one-stop stack from Swanson they call "Emotional Wellness Pills".  It contains five standardized herbal extracts: hypericum (SJW), rhodiola, ashwaganda, bacopa, and apocynium.  I don't get any stomach upset from it even taken on an empty stomach; more sensitive stomachs could try it with food.  I also take a probiotic from Life Extension called Flora Assist Mood.  I'm not a fan of fish-based omega-3s so I eat some flax seeds a couple times a week for ALA and take algal-oil based supplements for DHA and EPA; Source Naturals has a product they call DHA Neuromins and another called Vegan Omega 3.  I only take those with food and haven't experienced any stomach upset from them.  Besides taking a comprehensive multi-vitamin-mineral supplement, I also take turmeric, green tea and blueberry extracts and use olive and coconut oils liberally. 

 

Since you are most interested in natural stuff , you might want to check out probiotics, especially if there are coexistent GI and CNS concerns.  There has been a lot of research in just the past few years on the so-called "gut-brain" axis; turns out there is a much closer connection between the gastrointestinal tract and central nervous system than previously realized.  The human body harbors on the order of 100 trillion bacteria, mostly in the digestive tract, and these bacteria appear to communicate with the brain via the vagus nerve and an elaborate network of innervation in the gut sometimes even referred to as a "second brain".  Many even secrete neurotransmitters such as serotonin and GABA.  I don't think I'm allowed to post links yet, but the scientific studies are solid.  If you go to Mental Health Daily, there is an article called "10 Best Probiotics for Depression and Anxiety: Gut-Brain Axis Modification", that cites a number of these studies as well as giving a great synopsis of which species of bacteria do which things.  Besides the vagus nerve connection, many of these bacteria also modify the immune response and turn dietary fiber into short-chain fatty acids like acetic and butyric acids that are good neurological food.

 

Best of health to you!

 

Kinesis, thank you for your reply bro. 
I'm aware of the brain-gut axis, so I'm supplementing with prebiotics instead of probiotics. I usually get my probiotics from a high-quality - with live bacterial culture - yoghurts. I just find the prebiotic theory - in my opinion - more convincing and sustainable than probiotics. Nonetheless both of them are fantastic and they work great. Definitely gonna check your article when I come back from my workout. 
I currently want to supplement with creatine and Mind Lab Pro. Mind lab pro is a new, all natural nootropic, that consists in 11 compounds (ranging from herbs, amino-acids and vitamins) and dosages seem to be pretty spot on for most part. 
Mind lab pro consists of: 

• Cognizin (citicoline) 250 mg
• Phosphatidylserine (soy-free) 50 mg
• Lion’s Mane Mushroom 500 mg
• Rhodiola rosea (root) 50 mg
• L-Theanine 125 mg
• N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine 175 mg
• Vitamin B6 (as P-5-P) 2.5 mg
• Bacopa monnieri - Standardized to 45% bacosides 150 mg
• Pterostilbene 500 mcg
  Vinpocetine 6 mg
• Huperzine-A 200 mcg

So to sum things up, I'll be supplementing with Mind Lab Pro (two pills a day), Creatine Monohidrate (3g a day) and prebiotics (sachet powder form - can't remember the dosage). I'll cycle this in a monthly basis because I want the bacopa to sink in (one mount on, 1 week off). However I'm still not sure about the cycles and dosages yet, have to experiment for a while first. 
If it doesn't work out for me, I might give your stack a go. 
By the way, I've supplemented with ciltep and smart caffeine for a about a mouth (without rhodiola). But it wasn't working out for me. It works to some point. You do feel more motivated to study and are more focused; however it's very subtle. From the caffeine I get jiterry and anxious, my heart beat gets all out of sync; with Ciltep, it's really hard for me to sleep, and than you feel foggy the other day. Don't get me wrong, it definitely works, but it's to unstable and specially unsustainable in a long term. There's no nootropic that works on little sleep. 
Btw props to Opti^Nutra for creating a free caffeine-stack, with no secret blends, formula. They're a winner already for effort.

Thank you so much for your time. I'll let you know the results soon. However I might create a new topic because I'm getting off track here haha.
Tell me what you think about this stack. 
Take care

Ps: I did stacked rhodiola, with smart caffeine and ciltep. I don't think it was a good idea. I just wanted to punch people in the face and made me feel quite moody. Don't recommend

Edited by Ric Rhodiola, 10 April 2016 - 11:13 AM.

[Kinesis]

Well Ric, I don't really see anything there to criticize ... your stack has a lot in common with mine, so that would be a bit hypocritical ;-).  I take rhodiola and bacopa routinely due in part to their presence in the Swanson Emotional Wellness formula.  My multi (Life Extension Mix) contains B6 (including pyridoxal-5-phosphate), and I also take LE's Calorie Restriction Mimetic which contains pterostilbine.  On an occasional basis I take theanine, tyrosine, citicoline and phosphatidylserine.  So quite a bit of overlap.  There are a lot of ways in which you could generalize that certain things are good (or not so good) for virtually everyone, but once you get just so granular, you start to get into areas in which individual variation (and even just preference) comes to the fore.  Not to mention relatively mundane considerations like convenience; for example the availability of combination formulas that help reduce the number of separate supplements you have to take; though this can get tricky since you can wind up with overlap and redundancy too.

 

Just one example - I use probiotic supplements regularly but don't often take specialized prebiotic formulas.  Reason?  I only occasionally eat cultured/fermented foods, but have a diet that is naturally rich in prebiotic complex carbs/fiber.  I also want to get certain bacterial strains that tend to be listed in probiotic supplements but not necessarily called out on food labels.  Diet is just one of those factors that affects what supplements to take and varies between individuals.

 

Probably the only thing in your stack I haven't taken at some point is Lion's Mane.  Is this something you use mostly for acute effects or long term benefits?  I also haven't tried creatine but have seen some positive rationale for it.  If you have any impressions I'd be interested to hear them.