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Does Finasteride + Enlarged Prostate mean no TRT for me?

prostate testosterone finasteride trt saw palmetto

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#1 SearchingForAnswers

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 07:10 PM


Hello, 

and thanks in advance.

 

FYI: I am a 54 year old male in reasonably good physical condition.

 

So I've been taking 5mg x1 finasteride for about 2 1/2 months now. While it has helped my urine flow somewhat (not earth shattering), I am finding my motivation in the gym for lifting greatly reduced. 

 

I have already thought I may be needing testosterone replacement therapy for a while, but now it's much worse. I used to look forward to the gym, now it's a chore and something I really don't want to do. I'm carrying 15 extra pounds on top of that for about 5 months now. Some of my issues precede the finasteride, but I really do believe it's just amplified them.

 

I have thought about Saw Palmetto, but doesn't that just do the same thing as finasteride and one way or another block DHT in order to stop prostate enlargement? Are there any other ways to reduce prostate size (haha please no prostate massage suggestions).

 

THis is really affecting me personally. It's also reduced my sex drive substantially.



#2 aconita

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 02:55 AM

I am not convinced at all.

 

It is stated that testosterone converted by 5 alpha reductase into DHT is the cause, therefore inhibiting testosterone or 5 alpha reductase (finasteride) is the solution.

 

How come that BPH usually is a concern when testosterone levels are well declined?

 

After about 30 years of age testosterone levels start to decline and estrogen to rise, it is quite rare to hear of BPH before 50.

 

To me it makes much more sense to believe it is the decline in testosterone and the concomitant rise in estrogen that causes it.

 

It seems lowering estrogen is controversial in reducing BPH with some research finding no such effect, but it is a fairly new approach (by the medical community) and not much research has been done yet, I suggest keeping an eye on it since dismissing this wouldn't be justified (yet, at least).

 

Saw palmetto "should" work on the same principles but is much milder (more later).

 

Nettle root works on different pathways (including estrogen inhibition) and might be preferable.

 

http://www.progressi...-swollen-pr.htm

 

Epilobium parviflorum is not well known outside Germany and Austria but is very effective and probably first choice, it works on different pathways including relatively strong estrogen inhibition.

 

In my view the strategy should be to rise testosterone, lower estrogen (especially estradiol), avoid messing up with drugs (finasteride) and help with epilobium and maybe nettle root (both as tea).

 

About saw palmetto:

 

Saw palmetto, specifically the n-hexane extract, seems to inhibit both isomers of the 5α-reductase enzyme at concentrations which approximate plasma concentrations reached via oral ingestion of the supplement. These inhibitory effects have been shown to reduce DHT formation in vitro, and while less potent it is seems to be comparable in efficacy to finasteride. It is not certain what molecule(s) mediate this effect, as the potency seen in some extracts is far greater than the dietary fatty acids present in saw palmetto.

 

It has been noted in prostate cancer cells (LNCaP) that, while finasteride suppresses the activity of the type II isomer of 5α-reductase alongside other effects (suppression of PSA secretion and downregulation of prostatic androgen receptors), saw palmetto failed to downregulate the androgen receptor or influence PSA secretion rates.

 

Studies assessing saw palmetto on testosterone are currently highly confounded with other nutrients or have potential conflicts of interest. One lone study lasting only a week using saw palmetto in isolation failed to find any influence on testosterone or DHT concentrations.

http://examine.com/s...s/Saw Palmetto/

Again it seems that is not reducing DHT that elicits a positive effect on BPH, other mechanism are likely to come in play (estrogen inhibition mainly but not only).

 

Trowing saw palmetto in the mix might work, for sure it will not negatively effect your training, guaranteed. 

 

Weight gain (likely water retention), reduced sex drive and reduced motivation in the gym points to low testosterone, high estrogen and possibly high cortisol (low DHT too is likely to cause water retention and that is probably the finasteride).

 

Having those tested might give you some insight.

 

If testosterone replacement is chosen make sure to check very often estrogen levels and eventually avoid high levels (aim for the lower limits) with anastrozole under medical supervision, of course.

 

Anastrozole alone might help with both low testosterone and BPH, again testing often and under medical supervision only since drugs tend to be little forgiving.

 

 



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#3 Santi

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Posted 03 April 2016 - 05:18 AM

The symptoms that you state you are having are common with finasteride use. For some people the symptoms go away, for others they become permanent even when they stop finasteride. Also finasteride actually increases your testosterone levels by around 22%. The only way to get rid of the side effects that I am aware of is to stop taking finasteride or decrease your DHT by a smaller amount.

5mg finasteride daily decreases DHT by 69-70%, 1mg decreases DHT by 69-70%, .2mg decreases DHT by 62%, .05mg decreases DHT by around 52% and .01mg decreases DHT by around 10%.





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