623 replies to this topic

[sthira]

Thank you for your great work, streamlover! Looks so easy anyone can do this, and hopefully you're not consuming unwanted heavy metals with your drinks.

On another note, I see h2 water also being marketed as a foamy concoction possibly healthy for skin. Have you tried cotton swabbing your h2 water on your hands? Maybe it'll help with skin aging?

[streamlover]

 WaterTest051116.pdf   81.5KB   37 downloads

 

Here's the water test results I just received. Not too many surprises but I want to contact them to see if I can get more info on the TDS reading. It's quite a bit higher than any batch I've ever tested...2190 compared to my tested max of 200 or so. (I'm using distilled to start with a TDS of less than 5.) The significant individual categories are for Mg (783 mg/L) and CaCO3. The Mg is about as would be expected based on the calculations I made earlier based on rods weight loss per batch, ~100-200mg. Remember I used 6 rods for this test and brewed for 8 hours instead of the normal 4 rods for 3 hours, to make sure the test would find any heavy metals if present. So factoring down gets about 100-150mg per half-liter. The CaCO3 is a puzzle since there shouldn't be any Ca present at all. Maybe their test sees Mg malate as this since they don't expect that to be in tap water. The reactions here are:

Mg + C4H6O5 ---> H2 + MgC4H4O5 (mostly) and also Mg + H2O --> Mg(OH)2 + H2 (to a lesser degree)

Anyway, I'll see if they will explain the anomaly, but, In any case no real baddies here. Lead 1/15 MCL. The PH is lower than I expected at 5.5 so I might want to add some minerals if this is my main source of drinking water. Right now it's about half of my total drunk in a day.

 

So far not much to report on the "new" method of brewing I'm playing with. I did find what looks like a good candidate for the H2-reacting-container. It's these bottles with which I drill a hole in the cap and then can cover with whatever gas-permeable material (under the cap) I can find that might work. I've only tried 2 wraps so far, the Glad Cling was pretty bad and a piece I tore off some chicken I had in the freezer was a little better but still not even close to looking good. A salesman is sending me a sample (whole pack!) of these. Never know what you might snag if you just ask! Waiting on my Mg and Al powders to arrive for better and easier testing as that sanding the rods for powder is not fun.

 

Junk Master, I wish I could quantify if ANY of the weight I've put on was muscle or if it's all gone to my waist. I'm still wearing the same pants but they're all getting pretty tight now. I thought I remembered reading in some article that H2 would help overweight people lose and underweight gain but I couldn't find it when I just looked. I don't see how that's possible even in theory because of the ghrelin boost but if I find the article, I'll link it.

 

[joelcairo]

If your pants are getting tighter then presumably the weight you're gaining is going straight to your abs.

[aconita]

I think the surface area of the membrane has to be big enough in order to allow as much gas as possible to permeate in reasonable time.

 

Those containers are cool but just drilling a hole in the cap will likely provide a too small surface for the membrane, that's why they recommend "wrapping" in a gas permeable membrane in order to maximize the surface area.

 

Those membranes in the link might be cool since the container is flat, much like a Petri dish, allowing for a much greater membrane surface but a Petri dish would not be the easiest to insert in a bottle.

 

I might suggest to consider welding the polypropylene membrane to form a "bag", welding shouldn't be very difficult with the help of a hot iron (it is just a matter of finding the right temperature).

 

As usual my concern is what polypropylene might release in the water.

 

"The Environmental Working Group classifies PP as of low to moderate hazard.^[33] PP is dope-dyed, no water is used in its dyeing, in contrast with cotton.^[34]

In 2008, researchers in Canada asserted that quaternary ammonium biocides and oleamide were leaking out of certain polypropylene labware, affecting experimental results.^[35] As polypropylene is used in a wide number of food containers such as those for yogurt, Health Canada media spokesman Paul Duchesne said the department will be reviewing the findings to determine if steps are needed to protect consumers"

 

https://en.wikipedia...i/Polypropylene

 

I did find plastic non return valves for close to nothing but are not meant to be food grade and the same concern as above do apply.

 

Goretex is a micro porous polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon) membrane very permeable to gas, the exterior is woven but the real thing is inside and are non woven membranes, it seems maybe safer health wise.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gore-Tex

 

https://en.wikipedia...afluoroethylene

 

There are other stretched polytetrafluoroethylene membranes too, it is a matter of finding whom is willing to sell small amounts of it...

 

Still searching....

[streamlover]

Aconita, thx for the input and research. I have the same concern about the size of these bottles and effective membrane area but since they are cheap and easy to test, thought I's give it a go. If I can even get 50% of the concentrations they claim in the article, I'll be happy since the method will get rid of the Mg supplementation problem. The article is a little sparse on details as to how they actually construct this container from gas permeable membrane and it's hard to picture. Welding in some manner with heat doesn't appeal to me since it would be a lot of trouble to seal it water-tight for each batch, if you could even accomplish it at all. H2 molecules are pretty darn small and quite a few will flow through this 5mm hole in the top. I can even go larger with this cap...maybe up to 12-13mm if necessary so I have some room to adjust there.

 

Btw, if anyone wants to request a "sample" of the membrane from Chemplex, I'd go for the roll rather than the precut discs...I think you could get a lot more 1"x1" membranes from this than the discs. (if this material happens to work.)

 

Just saw I got a response from my water test guy:

************************************************************************************

Hi, Glen.

The test kit was designed for a normal drinking water where any
alkalinity present would be due to naturally-occurring bicarbonate
and/or carbonate.  In your sample, the reaction with the magnesium rod
probably created a rather large amount of hydroxide alkalinity, which
normally would've been reflected by a high pH value.  However, the
expected high pH seems to have been counteracted by the addition of the
malic acid, so the pH of your water tested at 5.5.  Since the endpoint
for bicarbonate alkalinity is pH 4.5, the test we performed produced an
"apparent" bicarbonate result of 730 mg/L.

Bicarbonate alkalinity in water is commonly expressed "as CaCO3."  This
doesn't mean that calcium carbonate is necessarily in the water creating
the alkalinity; it's just a widely-accepted way of relating various
chemistry results to each other in the water industry.  Sorry for any
confusion on that.

Yes, I think the high TDS was due to the high amount of magnesium
dissolved in the water.  There was very little calcium found in your
sample (0.9 mg/L), and the "as CaCO3" result is just a common way to
report alkalinity.  Hope this is helpful, Glen.

Best regards,

Dave

[aconita]

I can't see any reason to have a new membrane each time, welding the membrane in a way that one side is left open provides a "bag" (a cylinder with one end welded close and the other end left open, very likely what the author of the research did) that can be closed by folding several time the open side on itself with the folding kept in place by a clip (folding makes a very waterproof seal)

 

Or leave the open end long and weld/cut open each time until too short, since the welding only takes 1mm or so it should take quite a few welding/cutting to shorten the bag significantly. .

 

The "bag" can be emptied from leftovers after each use, washed and refilled, I guess it might last a long time before the need of replacing it.

 

Welding shouldn't be an issue, an hot iron might do or one of those little machines for welding polyethylene bags.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...A3YiVBdf-JQGs9A

 

It seems that after all the test result in a quite pure water quality, apart from the magnesium (of course) it seems that there is nothing to be worried about, am I right?

 

 

 

 

 

[streamlover]

Hey, aconita, now I'm getting a better picture of what you're talking about. I still think it may prove difficult to work with a non-rigid material, load with the reactants plus the water and then fold the material and get the clip on, hopefully without leaving much air space in the bag. (important in my experience) Unfortunately, they're sending me the round pre-cut samples of the Chemplex PP rather than the roll but it may work to just fold in half, seal and leave enough unsealed to load everything in and fold/clip it. Might even be easier with the round pieces. I'll go ahead and order that sealer you linked. (How can anyone sell ANYTHING for $1.38 inc. shipping and make any money?) I was also thinking about some kind of wire or plastic mesh frame that I could cover with the material to maybe make it easier to work with. Anyway, I can start playing with different materials now since I got my Al order today.

 

Yes, I'm happy with the water report and think these rods are cleared now.

[aconita]

How can anyone sell ANYTHING for $1.38 inc. shipping and make any money?

 

I am wondering too...

 

Well...I suppose you don't have to expect high professional quality but it should do the job OK, at least for testing purposes, there might be some better similar device on eBay but I haven't really checked too deeply, anyway in my experience with those gadgets more expensive doesn't necessarily mean better quality.

 

I am a bit skeptical about wires or meshes because the risk of contaminating the water....in the study you linked it seems they used none therefore it shouldn't be an issue but experimenting is the best way to find out what works.

 

Soon my rods should come in (Italian postal service is painfully slow) and I'll start making hydrogen water as you show in the video and supplementing, I would never be able to thank you enough for the video, the water testing, the reports and all the effort!!!

 

 

[streamlover]

I just saw that seller is in Hong Kong and don't want to wait 3 weeks for it. I'll just pay a little more and get it in a day or 2 from Amazon if my container doesn't seem useful. I'll do a little testing tomorrow with the Al + lime trying some other materials I have around here. You can see immediately how the bubbles flow coming out of the container. With those first 2 wraps the bubbling inside the bottle was fast and furious (as usual) with tiny bubbles forming but the bubbles coming out of the membrane were much larger and only coming maybe once per second. I think they need to penetrate the membrane much faster and flow pretty fast from the membrane to be effective.

 

Hey thanks for the appreciative words. As you can probably tell, I'm just having fun...like the rest of us here.

[niner]

Streamlover, those gas permeable membranes were a nice score for free!  There's one concern that I have about them, though:  Their stated pore size of 50 x 210 nm means that they should also be permeable to water and ions.  If you are capping a bottle, and the solution in the bottle isn't in contact with the film, then that should be ok, but if the film is between the reactant solution and the water, you might get contamination.  One experiment that would be easy to do is to put a water soluble dye solution on one side of the membrane, and clean water on the other side, and see if you get any transfer of the dye.   

 

Have you used the dissolved hydrogen test kit with any of these methods?

[adamh]

In case anyone is interested, here are my results on the electolysis experiment. Round 1 went to the gremlins, round 2 was different. I used stainless steel electrodes, hooked them up last night and used 12v dc. I used baking soda again as electrolyte not having any sodium sulfate and having heard bad things about using magnesium sulfate. Instead of a plastic bag I put a large drinking glass over the negative electrode, about 20oz size.

 

Round 2 went to me, gas bubbles started forming and by morning I had a substantial amount of h2 in the glass. I would estimate perhaps 10 cubic inches or so. Several times what you would get in a liter of h2 water. I just now let the water out of the glass, slowly to not disturb the h2 keeping the glass upside down so the h will stay in. Then, with something covering the opening I took little sniffs, followed by a breath of air and held it. Breathed a few times and repeated. It had a musty smell, hard to say what benefits arrived. I did feel lighter and seemed to glide as I walked.

 

The electrodes did not corrode at all noticeably. There was a slight yellowish tint to the water this morning. That may have come from the plastic airline tubing I used to insulate part of the neg electrode. The tubing had been used before and was still a bit dirty. One odd thing was this morning and all day I saw bubbles on the inside of the container. I'm wondering what that could be? The oxygen seemed to go up as did the h, perhaps the o2 dissolved in the water and then precipitated again? Maybe some h2 as well. Odd. The bubbles were all around the inside, not just close to either electrode and also inside the glass that was partly submerged.

 

My only cost so far is $4 for the stainless wire. Speaking of vendors on ebay selling stuff for $1.38 including shipping, that is almost certainly china. They subsidize shipping and our own post office subsidizes it too. 

 

I don't really need my power diodes, my little 12v supply produced enough h to give a good dose. How often are you supposed to use it and what effects should I look for? Anything I feel now is almost certainly placebo. But I do feel a little different.

 

Pure hydrogen, no mg, no lead, no other metals, no nasties. Come over to the gas side.

 

 

[streamlover]

Adamh, once again, good work and thanks for the report. When I was scouring the MHF website months ago I remember that inhalation of H2 gas was used as adjunct treatment in certain surgical procedures and that there are machines that provide H2 gas for general therapeutic and preventive benefits. I linked that picture above of a center on Korea that had machines where people could sit and inhale for a while. There just doesn't seem to be that many studies though that compare the various methods of ingestion for effectiveness in treating different conditions. It's really very early in H2 research and we're on our own for discovering many of the effects of ingesting H2. There does seem to be a consensus though that with H2, more is always better so I would say you could breathe as much of this as you can generate and it certainly won't harm you and will no doubt help something. I will be interested to hear your ongoing reports of any changes you notice physically or mentally from this protocol. I will say that since I've cut back on the H2 water I drink (from maybe 5-7 half-liters/day to 2-3), my benefits seem to have receded proportionately. I realize that some of the initial things I noticed could have been placebo-induced but I doubt all of them were. In particular, the increased stamina and enhanced mood is not as noticeable as it was at first although the reduction in inflammatory conditions has been maintained. (I also know all these subjective reports are affected by so many other factors going on in our lives at the same time.) Nevertheless, this is one of the reasons I'm very motivated to get this brew method working that eliminates the Mg in the H2 water so I can get back to my previous drinking habits.

 

On that front...I got my Chemplex microporous membrane samples and darn it, their "pack" was truly a sample pack (4) and not their pack of 100. (If something sounds too good to be true...) Oh well, based on my first test using the Al powder and pickling lime in the quantities specified in the article in my bottle with the membrane covering the top but under the lid, I don't think much concentration of H2 will be generated. There just didn't seem to be that much gas coming out of the container and it slowed considerably after 10 minutes or so. I will leave it in overnight and measure tomorrow but I doubt it will be very high at all. Still need to find a better membrane I think. I will try aconita's suggestion to make the entire container out of the membrane but I'm not optimistic at this point regarding this material. My next tact I'm thinking is to try to contact one of the 5 or so guys who's names are on that paper to see if they will specify what the membrane they used was and possibly where I might acquire it. If any of you good researchers out there want to participate, have at it. The guy who's name was first on that paper didn't seem to work at that institute any more and that was a dead end, at least for me.

[adamh]

Streamlover, a machine that produces it would be the easiest route. However, anything medical always costs an arm and a leg. They do make hydrogen producers for cars, apparently cars run better when they get a little h2. I always thought it was a scam like the ads for 200 mpg carburetors but apparently it does help. I would imagine they run on 12v

 

If you are going to make h for drinking water you want to start with pure water and good electrodes. Platinum and palladium are expensive. Tantalum is highly corrosion resistant and non toxic, also cheap. Titanium is even cheaper and also very corrosion resistant, I see rods for a couple bucks each. I use flexible airline hose to insulate the lead in wire so that the h2 is only produced right under the collecting glass. I seal the opening between tubing and electrode with hot glue. 

 

I'm going to try again with my stainless wire, which is even cheaper though I may go with tantalum or titanium in the future. Looking at it under magnification I see some areas with whitish deposits but only on the negative electrode. I imagine a soak in vinegar will take that off. Looking around I see that potassium hydroxide is an even better electrolyte than baking soda and I have some koh. If you are making water to drink you might want to go the baking soda route instead. I'm convinced that the bubbles which formed on the container walls were because the solution was highly charged with h2 and o2 making it a great source of hydrogen water as well as h2 gas. 

 

12v produced enough h2 that it should be plenty for one or two people. The 36v device costing about $6 I gave a link to should produce even more. Soon as I find my diodes I will hook up to the variable transformer and see what voltage does what just in case I want to produce some rapidly. It seems I will have to wait weeks to notice benefits, although my mood today was good, slept well last night and feel motivated today. But that proves nothing, placebo will do that and more. The current draw using 12v was so low I could not see it for sure on the meter which goes 0 to 6 amps. I probably was drawing 50 to 100ma and producing gas slowly but more than enough for a dose in 12 hours. 

 

I just like the idea of breathing the pure gas, the only impurity might be a bit of O2 which we need anyway. Be aware of open flame when you use it. 

 

[adamh]

The day I didn't use any, I felt not as great the next day. I've been using h every day now for I think 3 days straight. I've been sleeping better than usual and feeling ok. Today my haul of h2 gas was larger than usual, maybe as much as 14 - 16 fl oz of volume. I noticed I seemed to feel a little dizzy when I took in a big breath of it mixed with air and held it. Kind of like a hyperventilation dizzy feeling but I wan't hyperventilating. Now sitting here afterward I feel different, a little weird. I don't feel badly but there is a difference for sure. It seems to be doing something and I don't have to drink water full of junk.

 

Potassium hydroxide works fine. I put a little flake in the glass before filling it with water and putting upside down over the neg electrode to replace what is lost. As I let the glass go down to the bottom, solution runs out. I see the water is kind of yellow and the yellowish tubing I was using is cleaner. Could be a connection? 12v works fine, use higher voltage dc if you want it to produce faster but don't get too carried away. 

 

It makes me feel a little like in the monster movies with the mad scientist making some strange brew he takes then turns into something. They put electricity on the monster to make it come to life, I produce a gas with electricity to make me super human. <-- you can see I'm feeling weird... but liking it.

 

 

[adamh]

Still using it, still feel a little light headed after toking my h. It seems to also give a mood boost, not huge but if you were dragging you might feel better afterward. Sleep is still better, I can even nap in the afternoon if I want which normally I can't do even if very tired. If I wake up at night I can go back to sleep. That alone makes it worth the effort. Later I will find if its the perfect anti aging drug. Imagine if we had tested so many compounds over the years and something dead simple like this was better.

 

I find that koh works great as an electrolyte. I was not using enough, jacked it up to maybe a gram per gallon of water or a bit more and production went way up, still using only 12v and negligible current draw. In less than 24 hours my 24oz glass is full, has risen up in the container which is something because its a heavy glass and even some appears to have escaped from the bottom. This morning I found the same thing after only about 12 hours. I may huff it twice a day to see what happens. The gas itself has an odd odor, sort of chemical, musty, hard to pin down. After I breath all the gas the glass no longer smells like that. 

 

OK, now this is weird. The positive electrode is cutting into the plastic container I use. Not the negative, only the positive. I found it had sunk in about 1/8" and could not remove without possibly damaging the wire. Naturally I thought it must have gotten hot but after checking it at various times it has not been hot or even warm. Some chemical reaction potentiated by electricity must be going on perhaps catalyzed by the stainless wire. How on earth could koh, water and electricity do that?

 

The water itself gets brown pretty fast now, faster gas production has gone along with more yellow/ brown being produced. It forms a scum on top and residue on the bottom. I suspect the airline tubing might be involved but I'm not sure how.

 

I just took my h2 and feel on top of the world. Try it, you will like it. We may need a subforum some day for gas heads. 

[sthira]

Thank you for your reports, y'all. I'm waiting on the sidelines with this one to see what results y'all find. I've tried many things in the past that had little discernible effect -- resveratrol, c60oo, mitoq, NR with pterostilbene... So I'm feeling a bit like a sucker and waiting to see what pops with h2 goodness here in this thread. Please do report your n1 negatives and positives -- they're valuable and interesting.

[hotbit]

 

 

I find that koh works great as an electrolyte. I was not using enough, jacked it up to maybe a gram per gallon of water or a bit more and production went way up, still using only 12v and negligible current draw.

 

The gas itself has an odd odor, sort of chemical, musty, hard to pin down. After I breath all the gas the glass no longer smells like that. 

 

OK, now this is weird. The positive electrode is cutting into the plastic container I use. Not the negative, only the positive. I found it had sunk in about 1/8" and could not remove without possibly damaging the wire. Naturally I thought it must have gotten hot but after checking it at various times it has not been hot or even warm. Some chemical reaction potentiated by electricity must be going on perhaps catalyzed by the stainless wire. How on earth could koh, water and electricity do that?

 

The water itself gets brown pretty fast now, faster gas production has gone along with more yellow/ brown being produced. It forms a scum on top and residue on the bottom. I suspect the airline tubing might be involved but I'm not sure how.

 

12V is plenty, for a good yield you need good electrolyte (KOH is good) and good electrodes. Steel in not great, still  you may increase the surface of electrodes and clean them. 

H2 does not smell. You might have something else, too. H2S smells like rotten eggs, but where could S come from? Does it smell like rotten eggs?

Yellowish water might be caused by chromate(VI) (toxic). 

Positive electrode (anode) is called a sacrificial electrode, as it dissolves in form of ions -> they can form oxides and salts -> yellow water and brown residue in your container.

[aconita]

Melting plastic might release some toxic gas too, probably teflon bushes around electrodes would be better.

 

I am not so sure hydrolysis necessarily produces only clean and pure H2, it surely can but not always and anyway.

 

Vibrating the cathode should result in more efficient H2 production since it facilitates the layer of H2 bubbles to separate from the electrode, a small 12volt electric motor with a tiny off set weight on the axle would do but maybe is just an over complication.   

 

A wire is not the best electrode, a plate offers a much greater surface leading to a more efficient unit.

 

Electrolysis is a simple way to produce hydrogen and oxygen but at home made levels in order to be efficient and safe needs a bit of knowledge and care.

 

I hope it is not the case but the light head feeling might be due to some other compound rather than hydrogen.

[adamh]

But what would melt the plastic? Heat is the only thing I could think of. I never heard of a small amount of electricity causing it to melt. Maybe the wires were shorted for a little while and heated up? But only the positive electrode showed any signs and both were touching the plastic.

 

Aconita

>A wire is not the best electrode, a plate offers a much greater surface leading to a more efficient unit.

 

I'm aware of that but it seem plenty efficient as it is. Likewise vibrating it to get more gas may be gilding the lilly. 

 

>I hope it is not the case but the light head feeling might be due to some other compound rather than hydrogen.

 

Thats what I was wondering about but no one seems to have any suggestions what it could be. All there is to work with is potassium, water, electricity and the plastic. We have people here with all sorts of degrees and no doubt many have done electrolysis but no suggestions. Part of the light headed feeling might have been due to hyperventilation even though I thought I wasn't really doing any. I did breath fast several times after each breath of h. Part of the spacey feeling might be from over sleep. When you have been chronically short on sleep and suddenly can sleep all you want, the old habit of sleeping when ever able might bring that about. I have fallen back asleep several mornings and got more hours than usual plus occasional short naps. Not really intending to nap but lying down seems to lead to sleep now. 

 

>I am not so sure hydrolysis necessarily produces only clean and pure H2, it surely can but not always and anyway.

 

Maybe someone with knowledge will contribute?

Edited by adamh, 20 May 2016 - 02:10 AM.

[adamh]

Hotbit

>H2 does not smell. You might have something else, too. H2S smells like rotten eggs, but where could S come from? Does it smell like rotten eggs?

 

Nope, no sulfide odor. Just a slight odd odor sort of chemical-ish. Might be the koh. 

 

>Yellowish water might be caused by chromate(VI) (toxic). 

>Positive electrode (anode) is called a sacrificial electrode, as it dissolves in form of ions -> they can form oxides and salts -> yellow water and brown residue in your container

 

I just looked at the positive electrode. Its shiny and clean looking. No corrosion or rough spots visible. I wasn't going to drink the water anyway and after seeing the gunk I surely would not. Don't drink the yellow water

 

sthira

>Thank you for your reports, y'all. I'm waiting on the sidelines with this one to see what results y'all find. I've tried many things in the past that had little discernible effect -- resveratrol, c60oo, mitoq, NR with pterostilbene... So I'm feeling a bit like a sucker and waiting to see what pops with h2 goodness here in this thread. Please do report your n1 negatives and positives -- they're valuable and interesting.

 

To an insomniac, any substantial help with sleep is a major major benefit. I too have taken many things that did not live up to their billing or you could not feel anything. The sleep benefit is worth the price of admission and the lift in mood is a nice bonus. I keep reading reports about hydrogen therapy and all the wonderful things its supposed to do. I will try getting up after 8 hours no matter how much I feel like sleeping some more and see if the spacey feeling is less. I didn't really expect any results this soon. I don't care if its all placebo as long as it keeps going.

 

 

 

[normalizing]

whats all this craze about some suspicious h2 water, where is the O

[aconita]

You'll find out going back to page one where there is a link to a site that explains very clearly everything on regard.

[streamlover]

Finally got back to testing after getting busy with other stuff all week. I don't think this method of generation with the gas-permeable membrane as described here (method 1a) will ever be that practical for daily use, even assuming we could find the perfect membrane material. Just too inconvenient loading up that small reagent container with powders and water and then trying to get the cap on with the membrane under the cap. I will say it will probably work based on the few batches I measured giving decent concentrations but I didn't do the test for liquid leakage around the cap yet and that could still take some tweaking to get the seal water-tight. I just can't imagine too many people (including myself) wanting to do this whole process several times a day for their H2 water. If there exists a container like the one described in 1c and 1d with the check valve, that might be easier to load up but I'm not sure.

 

On another note, I was once again trying to find contact info for one or more of the guys cited on that study and ran across this paper which is very interesting. One of the guys worked on this research a few years ago. It basically compares 4 methods of H2 ingestion for concentrations of H2 in various organs, blood, etc. throughout the body (rat model) at various times after ingestion. The 4 methods were 5.0ppm oral water, saline injection into blood stream, injection into body cavity and breathing the gas. I haven't studied all the results yet but it seems that comparing oral ingestion to breathing, the 2 methods we're most concerned with here, the oral gets higher concentrations in the blood and most internal organs while the breathing gives higher concentrations in the brain and muscles. This certainly gives support to Adamh's reports of nootropic benefits from breathing his H2 gas, and makes me want to investigate further the gas generation options, either a machine or a method of generation similar to his. It also makes me want to revisit my brief experiment with taking that KOS probiotic I mentioned earlier which generated huge quantities of H2 gas in the gut which seemed to appear later in the lungs in high concentrations.

 

Got to go now. (Researching and experimenting with this stuff is fun.)

[aribadabar]

Streamlover,

 

Can I use citrulline malate ( which I have currently) in lieu of malic acid (which I don't have) for your H2 water-production method?

 

Thanks!

[streamlover]

Hey aribadabar, Don't think the citruline malate will work. The basic reaction for H2 generation in this method is a metal (Mg) plus a weak acid (any weak acid) --> H2 + a salt of the metal. So you could use citric acid (lemon juice) or acetic acid (vinegar) or something else like that. I only suggested the malic acid because it got the best results in terms if H2 concentrations compared to the others I tried. The others weren't that terrible though and the lemon juice made a better tasting brew. You might get some H2  with the citruline malate because of the reaction of the Mg with the boiling water but not that much. Go with 1-2 Tbsp of apple cider vinegar or lemon juice for pretty good results or the powdered food grade citric acid is ok too.

[normalizing]

so vinegar and lemon juice in water is good as hydrogen water?

[streamlover]

You also need the Mg sticks to enable the metal + acid reaction.

[aribadabar]

Hey aribadabar, Don't think the citruline malate will work. The basic reaction for H2 generation in this method is a metal (Mg) plus a weak acid (any weak acid) --> H2 + a salt of the metal. So you could use citric acid (lemon juice) or acetic acid (vinegar) or something else like that. I only suggested the malic acid because it got the best results in terms if H2 concentrations compared to the others I tried. The others weren't that terrible though and the lemon juice made a better tasting brew. You might get some H2  with the citruline malate because of the reaction of the Mg with the boiling water but not that much. Go with 1-2 Tbsp of apple cider vinegar or lemon juice for pretty good results or the powdered food grade citric acid is ok too.

 

Thank you for your detailed response. The reason I asked is because citrulline malate is really a 2:1 mix of dry L-citruline and malic acid, not really a single compound.

You sure it won't work if that's case?

[streamlover]

Aribadar, Chemistry isn't my strong suit but I think it would depend on how acidic (how many H+ ions) are still available for being displaced when you dissolve the citruline malate in the water with the Mg rods present. The reaction I'm using of Mg + malic acid creates H2 + the Mg malate salt but the reaction starts out very rapidly at first and slows to almost not noticeable after a few hours, presumably after most the the H+ ions have been displaced to form the H2 gas. It's possible you will get some reaction with the citruline malate but I suspect not much. Easiest is to try it and see if many bubbles are formed right away.

[streamlover]

My experimenting with trying to find a good membrane hasn't been too successful. I finally got a decent seal with the Chemplex membrane so that no Al powder leaked but I was getting tiny floaters in the brew which must have been the membrane dissolving. I've now switched to trying to find either of the container types already available somewhere. (gas-permeable membrane or check-valve container) I found this Japanese company (MiZ) that evidently took the results of that paper I linked and developed some products.tested in the paper.There's some good info and diagrams on their website. I emailed them and they sent a response wanting to know how many people there are in my company, how much it grosses, etc. (lol) So they're looking for someone to take their products to market evidently. I asked for just a few to test and then we'll see.