623 replies to this topic

[Kinesis]

... I just like the idea of breathing the pure gas, the only impurity might be a bit of O2 which we need anyway. Be aware of open flame when you use it.

When I was in fifth or sixth grade, I had a Hoffman apparatus connected up to a battery charger in the basement. I put salted water in it and got hydrogen at one terminal and chlorine at the other.  At least the stuff on the right side smelled like bleach, and the stuff on the other side I put in a test tube and took it to school, where I would set it off with a match.  It would explode out the end of the test tube with a loud bottle cap popping off kind of sound.  Nowadays something like that might get you arrested, but at the time it was all in good fun.

 

Of course, it was hydrogen.  I would have preferred to have gotten oxygen at the other side, but salt was the most readily available electrolyte.  In the present context, you could just mix the gasses you collect at the two terminals, hydrogen and oxygen, and there's your perfect way to whiff hydrogen.  After all, you're going to be breathing oxygen anyway ... you better, or you're dead!

 

The Hoffman apparatus was glass with platinum leaf electrodes, so there are only so many possibilities for what you're going to collect.  Water has just hydrogen and oxygen, salt sodium and chlorine, and only three of those are gasses.  If you were to use potassium hydroxide, that narrows it down to just two gasses, hydrogen and oxygen.  Use only glass and inert electrode material like platinum, and you shouldn't have to worry about any nasty contaminants.

 

If you want to drink it, just shake up the hydrogen you collect in pure water, and you'll get a saturated solution of hydrogen in water.  Breathe the leftovers and your hydrogen efficiency is near 100%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mcbethenstein]

Steamlover,
Do you have any recomendation on amounts for the magnesium powder and malic acid? I ordered the Mg powder from eBay that you linked, it should arrive tomorrow. Right now I'm using the alkaline hydrogen water sticks sold on Amazon. I have most food grade acids available to me from my home brewing supplies, as well as bottles. I did grab some malic acid, but also have as ascorbic acid, citric acid, tartaric acid, lactic acid and phosphoric acids... The last two being in liquid form. My husband has been trying to drink alkaline water to treat psoriasis, type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, and high blood pressure .... All inflammatory related diseases. I have eczema, fibromyalgia, past cancer history, migraines, and adrenal fatigue. Both of us have noticed very little progress and I have actually flared up my adrenal issues with so much water and not enough salts. I think there is promise in the research for hydrogen, and it may help us, but I don't have huge amounts of money for a alkaline machine, nor do I feel that they are the best for us anyway. I am thinking that I would still like to use the malic acid, since there is a bit of promising research on magnesium malate being essential for fibromyalgia patients to compensate for the deficiencies of magnesium and malic acid needed or proper energy metabolism. The sticks from Amazon seem like they are doing something, but not much. I am using hot water and a 1/16 tsp malic acid and get a bit of fizzing. After chilling the water is pretty gross, almost sulphurous. I am starting with RO water from a 4 stage reverse osmosis filter that recently had the filter changed, so my guess is that the filter stick is putting out other metal ions that are giving the water a strong smell. I plan to abandon the water sticks after the Mg powder arrives. What are your thoughts on mineral drops to add to the water? I currently use the trace minerals research concentrace drops to add to our RO water for drinking... (I have not used them yet with the amazon sticks.) Would this interfere with the hydrogen production?
Paula

[adamh]

Kenesis, I agree h plus o is a good combination to breath. It is a little dangerous since mixed with oxygen it is not only flammable but will explode. You don't want some fool taking a big breath of the mixture and lighting a cigarette or a candle. That could kill you if the mix exploded inside your lungs. It would be bad enough just the hydrogen but mixed with pure o2 is extra dangerous. Kids might breath it out at a flame hoping to see something happen.

 

I agree again, that platinum electrodes are the best. However, palladium is just as good, the others I mentioned earlier in the thread are just as good such as titanium. Stainless steel seems to work fine and after many cycles I see no corrosion on the wires to indicate leaching out of the elements. I also agree that mixing the gas after you produce it with water is the best way to make h2 water since there is no electrolyte or any possibility of contamination. You also do not get mg or acid or whatever was in the mg that you didn't know about. As far as I know there is no federal agency investigating claims of 100% purity on metallic mg since its not considered a consumable.

 

I have been taking my h2 every evening since it seems to help with sleep better when taken that way. I produce enough with just 12v that I could take it twice a day but haven't bothered yet. I still feel something odd when I first take a puff of h and air behind it and hold. That can't be hyperventilation though it feels like it because I haven't hyperventilated, only took a breath and held it. I seem to run out of oxygen rapidly and then have to catch my breath. I do feel a little odd afterward for a few hours perhaps. Not drunk just a little different.

 

My sleep is still better, my arthritis may be a little better, hard to be sure about that but seems that way and reduction in joint pain is one of the benefits touted. No obvious benefits yet on cognition, it might take a long time to do that or maybe I am doing better now and pass it off as placebo. I do recall being really foggy in the months prior to using h. Still foggy but it might be less. The odor I think comes from the koh itself. The wire on the positive electrode may have cut into the plastic when the wires were shorted without me noticing. I put a disc over the bottom of the collecting glass and put a straw through a 1/4" hole in the disc allowing me to sip the h without losing a bunch. Just started on that.

 

I have seen machines for sale that generate h, the cheapest I saw cost $379 I saw one for $600 and they apparently just pass dc through water you supply the water and electrolyte. My setup cost just about nothing and to buy the parts would cost you about $20 to $100 depending on what electrodes you use and how good you are at shopping for bargains. I use a large glass to collect h. 

 

Since I get tangible benefits in the form of better sleep, I will continue. The joint relief is not yet clear but seems to be happening. I have gone to more work and expense and gotten less. The long term health benefits remain to be seen. I recommend it. Put together your own setup, mix the h with distilled water and you are set. You get your money back right away, even the $600 machine will pay for itself and you get the purest water with no added metals or chemicals in it. Mix the h2 with pure water, breath the h and drink the water. Or just breath the h.

[streamlover]

mcbethenstein (Paula), I don't currently use the fire-starter Mg for making the H2 water I drink...I think I just linked that in reference to an improved brewing method I'm trying to develop which separates the reactants from the actual water you end up drinking. I use the solid Mg rods on Ebay for the stuff I drink. (link) Sorry for the confusion on that point. The rods take quite a while to receive from China...I actually have some extras I can send you at cost if you want to message me we can work it out. I tested those Amazon sticks and they did get some H2 generated but not really enough for me to feel much effect, ~.3ppm if I remember right. I also took one apart to see what was inside and they did have some tiny Mg strips and also a bunch of pebbles of different colors, presumably to add various minerals to the water also. Based on my experiments with the solid rods, those tiny Mg strips would be covered in oxide pretty quickly and probably not generate much H2 after a few weeks of use.

 

Btw, a person I met online who has drunk a lot of this Mg-generated water recommended the powder to me as a method to generate higher concentrations as well as being able to limit the maximum Mg ingested...he wasn't concerned at all about contaminants. If you do end up using the powder, I would say a 2-1 mix of malic acid to Mg would work...maybe 250 mg of Mg powder to 500mg of Malic acid. So I guess everyone has to make their own decision about what to use and what to ingest. I do think you are on the right track in trying molecular hydrogen for your health issues and wish you well.

 

The concentrace drops shouldn't be any problem with the H2 generation but you could always add them after brewing if you want.

Edited by streamlover, 26 May 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[mcbethenstein]

Thanks for the reply. I called the supplier for the Mg. It's produced in the US by ESM special metals & technologies. The Materials data sheet has it at OVER 99.8% purity, with the remaining trace metals all the same as listed before. (All metals we may come in contact with or ingest through food) I looked into the molecular weight of Mg (24) and Malic Acid (134) and Magnesium Malate (156). For a complete reaction to occur the ratio should be about 5:1 Malic Acid:Magnesium by weight if at 100% purity, or slightly higher. At 2:1 there would be significant amounts of unreacted Mg left and that would react with the water to form Mg(OH)2 (my phone doesn't do subscript) - milk of magnesia that has a much stronger laxative effect than Magnesium Malate. It's also known for flushing out potassium, which might lead to muscle cramping. The study I looked at on fibromyalgia wasn't using hydrogen water, but had the ratio of Malic Acid to Magnesium at 4:1... So a similar ballpark. I will let you know how it goes after my first few batches. I feel like using the powder may be the key to getting a good concentration of H2, without allowing too much Mg(OH)2 to be created, especially if your body is becoming extremely sensitive to the laxative effects.


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[streamlover]

Paula, You are no doubt correct that the 4-1 ratio would be better for getting the maximum Mg reacted and produce the higher concentrations. There won't be much Mg + H2O reaction as it isn't very reactive at all as it cools a little and what Mg(OH)2 that's formed will mostly bind to the Mg powder stopping that reaction. There will be residue in the bottom of your container of the un-reacted Mg with the Mg(OH)2 coating, similar to what you see using the H2 generating pills.

 

I checked that data sheet on the ESM site and I would still have some concern about the lead content of that powder, listed at .01%. If you used, for example, 250mg of the powder in each batch, that would mean .025mg or 25 micrograms is going into each batch. I'm not saying all of that would get into the water but that seems like a lot when the acceptable level for lead in the blood is something like 20mcg/dL. Say you've got 4 liters of blood total, your total lead in the blood should be no more than 1000mcg and you're adding (potentially) 1/50th of that amount with each batch. These are just rough estimates but I would say if you go this route, I would consider having the water tested by that place I linked before to make sure no significant lead is getting in the water.

[adamh]

I don't understand why people are so determined to do it with mg and acid when the amount of lead or other contaminants is still an unknown. If they admit to .01% it could be much higher. Keep in mind the sticks and powders are not considered food or consumables so there are no federal regulations or inspection programs for that. China especially has a bad reputation for lead and other contaminants, levels so high that childrens toys, jewelry and so on have been banned. They also have cadmium and other things in the mix. Why heavy metals would get into kids toys and jewelry, I have no idea, but quality control must not be #1 priority.

 

If you are using h for health reasons, then purity has got to be very important to you. A little bit of lead, cadmium or other stuff could not only cancel out the benefits but make you sick or dead. This is nothing to pass off by saying the data sheet does not show it. They know we don't like lead and we are relying on china, keep that in mind. They poison their own people and don't care what happens to us.

 

Even pure mg is a concern because too much is not good. It can crowd out other minerals and give you the runs. That is not as bad as heavy metals but not good. You don't want nickle either or whatever else happened to fall into the pot.

 

I urge people to go the electrolysis route. I would not buy the h2 water either because you don't know how they produced it. Produce your own and you will get pure h2 gas to use as you see fit. Use mg and you get a witches brew of whatever. 

 

Here is an ad for a hydrogen generator for $79 and free shipping. It looks to be much larger than anyone would need. Look around and you will see other ads. But why not make your own?

 

http://www.ebay.com/...vhUFJNG&vxp=mtr

 

 

[malbecman]

 An easy way to generate H2 gas is to put aluminum into a NaOH solution (sodium hydroxide).  A buddy and I used to do this in high school and make mini-Hindenburg balloons to set on fire. (darn kids)  

 

For the home brewer, just get some lye at the hardware store, make a solution in a strong container and start putting rolled up balls of aluminum foil into it.  It's an exothermic reaction so

it will gently heat up and you'll need to be a little careful.   We would usually control the rate of the reaction by only adding a couple of balls of foil at a time.      Doing this, we could fill 

large balloons with H2 pretty quickly (~5-10 min).

 

 Now that I Google it, I see there's plenty of info on it, including an Instructables.

 

http://www.instructa...-make-Hydrogen/

[adamh]

That actually sounds like a good method, I've never tried it myself. Does it produce only h2 gas? You would need a plastic container because lye will cause glass to crack and break eventually.

[mcbethenstein]

I've purchased a household water analysis kit. It is a pass/fail strip, so if it fails there is definitely lead present. The materials sheet indicates "typical" composition, so we shall see if it indeed has that 0.01% I mixed 200 mg Mg plus 1000 mg Malic Acid in a grolsch flip top bottle. I can see the reaction happening. Now to chill it for a while. A decision to consume the water will be made after test results are in


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[streamlover]

Sounds good. If you are using boiling water, you will be getting higher concentrations than I get. I would pour it out when done such that minimal residue gets into your water and then rinse the bottle well. Let us know if you notice any effects in the next week or so. I actually have some fire-starter Mg powder I got for testing the new method, which is currently stalled due to lack of ideas. I will use your recipe and brew a batch and test the concentration for you so you have an idea of what you're getting.

[mcbethenstein]

The test came back negative. Meaning with 200 mg in 500 ml bottle it was under 15 ppb. If the batch was at the approximate specified levels from the data sheet it would have been a concentration of 40 ppb and would have shown positive. I'm still going to look for a higher purity powder, but I'll start to drink 1 bottle a day. There was a significant amount of particulate on the bottom and I was careful to not pour that in my glass. I just hope I didn't waste my money on a product that I can't salvage a use. If anything.... I can start campfires quickly


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[adamh]

I don't understand why people are so determined to make h2 water with mg and acid and then drink it knowing that at a minimum it has substantial mg and malic acid in it plus whatever contaminants. I'm not sure I would trust a test strip to differentiate between 15 and 40 ppb of lead. But do what you will because thats what people always do anyway.

 

I notice on the first page niner suggested the lye and aluminum or zinc method of making h2 gas. He seemed to feel it produced a good product. I'm wondering if its pure h2 or what else would be in it? For sure you don't want to drink that water but if the h is pure then it would be a quick and cheap way to make it. I wonder if potassium hydroxide would work as well as sodium hydroxide?

 

I looked at lots of ads for hydrogen producers for cars. They all use stainless for electrodes and mine have given me no trouble at all. The generators are as cheap as $40 or so for a small unit which still would make more than you could use unless the whole tribe wanted in on it. For 60 to 70 you can get a bigger one which should take care of extended families, friends and neighbors. Not that you will be able to convince many people.

 

People are programmed to take pills for their ills or let a doctor inject them. Powders and liquids are slightly suspect but still accepted. Inhaling a gas is preposterous to most, sounds like kids huffing glue or something. Plus the fact you have to put together a device, capture the gas and breath it or make your own h2 water. If you could put hydrogen in a pill, the popularity would explode. We are addicted to fast food, fast entertainment and fast everything. 

 

The car generators collect h2 and O in the same space. It would work fine as long as you were super careful about flame. I have used an oxy-acetylene torch and it mixed the two in the torch head but when you lit it, the flame came out rather than exploding inside the metal unit. You did get a pop when you turned it off as the flame went inside but just a pop. For less than $50 you can put together your own unit and make hydrogen separately with no worries about what the sneaky chinese put into the mg and swore it was pure. They were putting poison into pet food, even into baby food that their own people used. A big scandal but has anything changed?

 

My sleep is still better, not perfect and I'm using stuff I was using to help sleep. It just works better now and have not had any really bad nights since the h2. I'm watching the arthritis but it does seem better, just not cured. Anyone else notice any benefits or effects? I still feel something when I take a breath of h and hold it. A slight buzz, not enough to interest the kids, lol. They would say "is that all?" My mood has been good, I did take st johns one day but was not feeling really bad just tired and unmotivated. 

[mcbethenstein]

Adamh,
You are right. Each of us will do what we want. There is no need to be condescending to a new member because you chose a different delivery method. If you read my earlier post, and actually looked into it... I have a disease that has a SEVERE magnesium deficiency associated with it. And this process can actually supply the exact supplement I need, so why would I not try it!!! Also the acid that we are using is the exact same acid that makes apples tart. It is a weak acting acid and safe to consume. As for the Mg. I was a little too excited about this process and purchased the powder without knowing about contaminant levels, assuming incorrectly that the linked product was safe. Hence why I am still going to look for a powder with a higher purity.
I also choose NOT to make large quantities of the gas, since I have a teenager in my house and regardless of health benefits or safety I do not want him thinking its OK to huff. Please back off the judgements


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Edited by mcbethenstein, 28 May 2016 - 10:28 PM.

[streamlover]

Paula, I checked the concentration on a batch using your recipe with boiling water and brewing for 3 hours and got 1.0 ppms H2. This is considered a therapeutic dose but I found a definite jump in benefits when I managed to get the concentrations up to 2.5-3.5ppms. I made a batch using 300mg of Mg and 1.5g of malic acid and got 2.1ppms which is close to what I'm drinking now. If you're only drinking 1/2 liter per day, I would consider bumping it up. These results correspond pretty closely to the pills which you drop in water and drink. (Active H2, H2 Viva, etc.) When I tested them, they got .3ppms at most using the boiling water and brewing for a while in an airtight container. (They advertise just dropping them in a glass of water and drinking but I never found that to accomplish anything.) They say they have 50mg of Mg in each pill so that roughly corresponds to the Mg levels I tested and seems to imply the concentration is proportional to the amount of Mg powder used.

 

On the note Adamh mentioned, the reason I'm continuing with the H2 water are several:

 

- Most of the studies I read done on H2 benefits use H2 water and not the gas.

- It's easier to quantify the amount of H2 ingested using the water and comparing to the studies to make sure I am getting the amounts used in the studies.

- When they do use the gas in the studies they know whether it's 2%, 3%, or 4% H2 that's breathed and they use a closed breathing device that fits over the mouth to ensure accurate amounts of H2 for each trial. These things would be more expensive to set up than the method he is using.

- They haven't done that many comparisons between the 2 methods of ingestion but what they have done seems to indicate that the water method actually gets more H2 in the blood and reaches more parts of the body for greater benefits in many cases.

- I have satisfied myself that the brew I make is free of contaminants and actually much cleaner than what most people drink for their drinking water.

 

Even given all this I really appreciate the testing he's doing and the reports he gives on benefits. He's making the gas method interesting to me and I may still try it some day and use both methods of ingestion. If he's a little competitive about gas vs. water I don't mind since I know we're all helping each other out here.

 

It just occurred to me as a way to give yourself more confidence in your Mg powder, you could run a batch with a big load of Mg (2-3g) with corresponding amt of acid and check it with your test kit. If it's negative, you could have more confidence in the purity and in drinking higher concentrations. I wouldn't suggest you drink it just because of the Mg load.

Edited by streamlover, 29 May 2016 - 12:46 AM.

[niner]

I also choose NOT to make large quantities of the gas, since I have a teenager in my house and regardless of health benefits or safety I do not want him thinking its OK to huff.

 

But you aren't huffing something that's bad for you in order to get high.  I'll bet your son would have no problem understanding the difference between medicine and sniffing glue.  Just tell him that this is an antioxidant that you consume by inhalation.  You could even let him try some.  Transparency is good, and kids are pretty smart about stuff like this.

[adamh]

Mcbethenstein, my post was not directed to you in particular nor was it condescending, imo. Sorry if you took it as a personal criticism, it was not meant that way at all. I merely expressed surprise so many were sticking with water and mg. If someone can't tolerate any criticism of their methods they will be uncomfortable in longecity. We criticize and critique a lot, which is one of the benefits of posting here. You get to hear different points of view and learn what you are doing right or wrong. You can then defend your position or learn from the critique. Feel free to criticize my methods, I have already learned a good bit already by reading this thread. Always give reasons for what you say and its even better if you can provide links to back it up.

 

I do see a reference to discomfort simply because of the fact its breathing a gas rather than taking a pill. This is pretty much what I suspected and I'm sure others are keeping away for the same reason. Not because the water is more pure or because they need the mg.

 

Speaking of mg, does it make a difference if its organic or inorganic? Copper for example is considered not too healthy if from inorganic sources while at the same time organic sources are much better. This mg would be of course inorganic. We still are not sure about the amount or type of "other" metals or materials in the mg sticks. We are trusting the chinese and hoping our tests can pick up on parts per billion.

 

I learned from a different site that the brown sludge in the solution is because of crap they put in our drinking water including fluoride and other chems plus minerals, etc that are present. I now am using ro filtered water and it looks a lot cleaner. For those brave enough to try the pure gas, I suggest using distilled, then the number and amount of extraneous chemicals is reduced near zero.

 

I saw a device on ebay which produces h2 water. It uses electrolysis and pure water which does not conduct electricity very well so it takes a few hours to charge up the water. Makes .5 liter at a time. Its cheap enough and you could run it overnight for a good dose in the morning then put in more water for later. It was about $40. You could also trap the gas which rises from the water and breath it, if you dare.

 

I use a straw to sip my hydrogen holding the glass upside down, I get a noticeable feeling when I hold it in. I'm pretty sure its not placebo. I'm noticing the same benefits I mentioned before. 

 

I measured the current flow on my setup and it was about 70ma which is not much. No input on the lye plus aluminum scheme?

[aconita]

We still are not sure about the amount or type of "other" metals or materials in the mg sticks. We are trusting the chinese and hoping our tests can pick up on parts per billion.

 

Adamh, we are not relying on the Chinese statements but on the fact that magnesium shouldn't be too contaminated by other compounds by its own nature and third part tests as the one kindly performed by Steamlover confirms that there are no contaminants to worry about.

 

Magnesium and malic acid are beneficial for low energy and pains, just search "malic acid" and you'll find a lot of results leading to its beneficial nature, as with everything else dosage has not to be overdone, of course.

 

The concern is more about overdosing malic acid and magnesium if large amounts of hydrogen are desired, not the negative effects of malic acid or magnesium which in the appropriate dosage are actually beneficial.

 

Hydrogen water carries its own peculiarity as breathing hydrogen gas does, there is no reason whatsoever to exclude the former or the latter. 
 

 

I learned from a different site that the brown sludge in the solution is because of crap they put in our drinking water including fluoride and other chems plus minerals, etc that are present. I now am using ro filtered water and it looks a lot cleaner.

 

It is possible that tap water contains chemicals that may react in the electrolysis process forming unwanted gasses, maybe the melting plastic you did experience is due to that.

 

I may suggest to use distilled water in order to avoid that possibility, filtering likely doesn't eliminate chemicals.

 

I saw a device on ebay which produces h2 water. It uses electrolysis and pure water which does not conduct electricity very well so it takes a few hours to charge up the water. Makes .5 liter at a time. Its cheap enough and you could run it overnight for a good dose in the morning then put in more water for later. It was about $40.

 

Sure but the question is how much hydrogen is in the water?

 

Probably percentages are very low therefore not very interesting since you don't really aim to drink gallons of water daily...

 

The electrodes are another concern, if not of top quality (and price) the water will be contaminated in some way.

 

I personally see more interesting electrolysis as a mean to produce hydrogen gas to add to water later, to breath and eventually for "topical" use.

 

Anyhow considering that for hydrogen production chemical reactions are generally preferred and considered cheaper than electrolysis I suspect electrolysis needs to be seen a bit out of the traditional scheme in order to compete, like with the Pacheco hydrogen generator, for example.  

 

 

[adamh]

Aconita, I was not aware and may have skimmed over it, that steamlover had sent the rods to an independent testing lab of some sort. That is good if lead, cadmium, nickle, etc are low enough not to be a concern. I'm not sure what form the mg will be in in the water. Some forms are hard to absorb so may not give much benefit as far as your daily intake or may give more than desired. Even non absorbed mg will lead to loose stools which could be a problem. I believe steamlover had to stop using the water because of problems. I'm also not sure if inorganic sources of mg are completely safe or is it similar to the situation with copper?

 

>It is possible that tap water contains chemicals that may react in the electrolysis process forming unwanted gasses,

 

It is possible though I see no evidence of it. I have gone to ro water and plan to buy some distilled. But we are starting with drinking water after all. Not that our drinking water should be drunk as is. I don't trust it that much.

 

>maybe the melting plastic you did experience is due to that.

 

Very very unlikely. I attribute it to having occasional shorts when taking the glass out of the water. A short would generate the heat needed to do that.

 

>I may suggest to use distilled water in order to avoid that possibility, filtering likely doesn't eliminate chemicals.

 

I just recommended distilled water in my last post. RO filtering does indeed remove many chemicals and substances. Its not just a carbon filter, it has several stages including RO.

 

>Probably percentages are very low (referring to the device I mentioned) therefore not very interesting since you don't really aim to drink gallons of water daily...

 

You can assume many things but that is without evidence one way or the other. Without evidence I could say I assume there are loads of nasties in the mg that will kill you. That would be unwarranted without proof but is something to be concerned about. The device has electrodes that put a voltage across them at the bottom of the unit producing h and o. It rises up in the water and some dissolves. Its probably no more than 1 ppm, but could be higher or lower depending on how long it ran. I don't know if the device is effective but it makes h2 water and is cheap. I was thinking to increase current flow and therefor gas production, it might be good to add a little lemon juice or even vinegar to the water as an electrolyte. Adds a bit of flavor and more h2 is formed. 

 

>The electrodes are another concern, if not of top quality (and price) the water will be contaminated in some way.

 

Not necessarily, a good stainless steel should do the job. Speculation is fine but assuming the worst about a method you don't want to use is not the scientific process. The voltage is low and no one has shown anything to suggest stainless will leach bad things into the water. This device is used for consumption therefore the appropriate government agency would (hopefully) keep an eye on it and has tested it.

 

>Anyhow considering that for hydrogen production chemical reactions are generally preferred and considered cheaper than electrolysis I suspect electrolysis needs to be seen a bit out of the traditional scheme in order to compete, like with the Pacheco hydrogen generator, for example.

 

Preferred for what, industrial hydrogen production? We are talking about tiny amounts, a couple parts per million. As for cost, its negligible in terms of electricity. At 70ma and 12v, my setup draws about .84 watts. Running it for 12 hours gives a whopping 10 watt hours of electricity costing perhaps $.001 less than 1 cent. I dont think your economic argument holds much validity, lol. You obviously are not in favor of electrolysis, perhaps you will discover a good reason for us not to use it. I await such a discovery if it exists.

 

I do agree that getting h from both breathing and ingesting the water might be more effective than either alone. However, with the gas you are exposed to a lot of h2 and its said to be very permeable in our tissues. It goes from the lungs right into the blood steam same as oxygen. I feel it right away.

[aconita]

I am not involved in any crusade against electrolysis, actually I do like it and I played with it since a long time, my point is that it might not be as simple to get pure hydrogen in large amounts in short time with it.

 

Steamlover sent the water (not the rods) to a specialized laboratory to test and the results are satisfying.

 

Magnesium and malic acid yield magnesium malate, a goo form of magnesium for supplementing.

 

Steamlover got issues because he desires to get as much hydrogen as possible and drinks A LOT of hydrogen water which leads to overdose magnesium and malic acid, up to 1l/day should be no problem.

 

Stainless steel electrodes will leach metals in the water, they will be subject to quite a bit of corrosion as you will notice in a while, even titanium platinum coated electrodes get corrosion with use and need to be replaced often.

 

A cheap electrolysis unit is unlikely to yield high concentration of hydrogen in water because electrolysis is known to not be very efficient in doing so, it is too slow in generating hydrogen and hydrogen doesn't like to stay inside the water very long, you can run it forever but at a certain point the concentration will likely stall because the amount leaking will be the same you put in.

 

In order to overcome this issue you need something more efficient and the cost will rise, I doubt that a 40$ unit is so efficient to yield decent concentrations, but to make sure one needs to test it, of course.

 

I am planing to play around with a Pacheco generator which should yield way more hydrogen than conventional electrolysis, in my opinion a possible viable alternative to chemical production. 

 

 

[adamh]

Aconita

>Stainless steel electrodes will leach metals in the water, they will be subject to quite a bit of corrosion as you will notice in a while, even titanium platinum coated electrodes get corrosion with use and need to be replaced often.

 

Not that I doubt you or anything but could you link us to something which backs this up? I am especially surprised to see you say the same thing about platinum and titanium corroding and having to be replaced often. In a water solution of koh? Even if some did leach, which I have seen no sign of despite having done the process many times now, what exactly would stainless steel leach into the water? Chromium is one ingredient along with iron, nickel and carbon normally. Some stainless formulas do not contain any iron but none of that looks particularly frightening. In fact all those elements are required in the diet and many people take supplements of iron or chromium. Why should we avoid stainless steel? Its used in coffee pots and other utensils which may contain acidic or alkaline foods. 

 

The stainless electrodes I'm using are shiny and show no signs of pitting even under magnification. It may well be that a tiny bit is occurring. I merely say I have not seen it happen and if it did what harm would that cause? I learn something new almost every day so I look forward to being enlightened on this subject.

 

>A cheap electrolysis unit is unlikely to yield high concentration of hydrogen in water because electrolysis is known to not be very efficient in doing so, it is too slow in generating hydrogen and hydrogen doesn't like to stay inside the water very long, you can run it forever but at a certain point the concentration will likely stall because the amount leaking will be the same you put in

 

"unlikely"? well I have produced enough to fill a 24 oz glass in less than 12 hours, probably in less than 10. How much do we need for this? Niner calculated that a liter of 2ppm h2 water would have just over a fluid oz of h2 in it and this is 24 oz. Not enough? I agree there is a limit on how much you can get dissolved in the water, that would be true of the mg + acid method as well. I'm not sure what you need large amounts of h2 for. Are you getting large amounts with mg? 

 

The utensil I spoke of is here 

http://www.ebay.com/...MAAAOSwSHZWcMsR

I have not used it myself and have no financial interest in it or in the vendor. However it shows how its put together and the claims made for it. I think using lemon juice or something else would produce more current flow and more output. But even if it took overnight to create 500 ml, that is not bad. They claim it takes only a few hours. Perhaps with juice because I found that pure water does not conduct well so I don't think a couple hours would do it without some sort of electrolyte. Lemon juice might be great for that.

[malbecman]

That actually sounds like a good method, I've never tried it myself. Does it produce only h2 gas? You would need a plastic container because lye will cause glass to crack and break eventually.

 

 Yes, we used to use a strong polypropylene bottle/jug.  The "trick" was finding one with a good mouth opening...something you could fit the balloons over pretty easily but not too small or

you could not drop the aluminum foil balls in.

[adamh]

That might be the best way to go, possibly. Something I have wondered about is why the people making h water dont also capture the h2 gas that rises up? Since h does not dissolve easily in water, probably the majority is escaping into the air. Why not rig something up to catch it? If you find you get the same benefits from gas then why drink the water with variable amounts of stuff in it?

[aribadabar]

I followed streamlover's method to produce H2 water with the Mg rods and malic acid. I put 4x5" ones and probably 2g of malic acid ( 2 small coffee spoons) in a 250ml flip top bottle ( only one of this type that I have) and poured boiling distilled water. The reaction was immediate and very prolific to bubbles of ( I assume) H2. After 2.5h in the freezer I opened it with a loud pop and drank it all in one shot.

I felt some fizzy feeling in my stomach and occasional spasms in the liver area ~40 min after ingestion - not sure if related or coincidental. There is certainly *some* effect from it - a slight head pressure. Just prepared a second batch so will keep testing

 

 

[aribadabar]

 .

Edited by aribadabar, 08 June 2016 - 07:52 PM.

[aconita]

I am taking hydrogen water since a couple of weeks now.

 

I am following Steamlover method, 500ml bottle, 4 mag rods, about 1,5g malic acid, hot water (not boiling, just what comes off the tap, barely possible to hold a finger in it), about 2 hours in the fridge (it already starts to freeze).

 

The reaction is quite strong, the pressure inside the bottle makes tricky to close it sealed without any leaching, I keep the bottle horizontal in such a way water instead of air (hydrogen) is in contact with the lid, some water still leaching but nothing major.

 

Pleasant taste, a bit acidic, mild lemon juice like.

 

Cleaning the rods in vinegar leads to an immediate crazy reaction with huge bubbling, heat and even smoke, a couple of seconds is all it takes to get sparkly clean rods.

 

500ml/day which actually is less than that since the mag rods are taking some room in the bottle causes no issues whatsoever, 3 of those a day starts to cause mild intestinal discomfort, nothing major but noticeable and not desirable, probably 2 bottles a day would be the upper limit for me. 

 

The effect of one bottle a day is mild, deeper sleep, less sleep latency, more appetite, minor pains are less noticeable, not solved 100% but definitely decreased in magnitude, some of the effects seems stronger immediately after supplementing and kind of slowly fading after a few hours, a couple of friends of mine on a very close protocol report similar results.

 

Higher dosages multiple times during the day are very likely to yield more noticeable and longer lasting effects but the magnesium side effects seem to constitute a dosage limit.

 

Taken 3 hours after training leads to immediate multiple runs to the bathrooms to pee, likely the already very acidic body environment reacts strongly with the acidity of the water and the hydrogen ions stimulate the kidneys to get rid of some, 300mg/kg baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) before training eliminates the issue, likely buffering the training induced acidity (about 3g beta alanine alone are not enough).  

 

So far I am pleased with the results and the method of production that is really cheap and easy, obtaining in a similar cheap and easy way magnesium free hydrogen water is next since it would allow for higher supplementation.

 

 

 

[niner]

hot water (not boiling, just what comes off the tap, barely possible to hold a finger in it)

 
Most water heaters use a large aluminum rod as a sacrificial anode. This might result in a higher aluminum content than you want. (It's possible to get a magnesium anode, but they are uncommon.) When I want hot water, I start with cold filtered water and heat it in the microwave.
 

300mg/kg baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) before training eliminates the issue, likely buffering the training induced acidity.

300 mg/kg body weight?  If so, that's 21 grams of sodium bicarbonate for a 70 kg man; that's a lot of sodium.

[aconita]

Over here most commonly used water heathers are gas instant, not electrical, no rods or aluminum whatsoever but nice you pointed that out since whom uses electric heathers should be aware of the issue.

 

Tap water here is OK, not much chemicals added (hopefully), just quite hard (high calcium carbonate).

 

300mg/kg sodium bicarbonate confers 82mg/kg dietary sodium which is quite a lot indeed, not recommended to salt sensitive persons but safe for everybody else.

 

One way around it is to mix sodium bicarbonate with potassium bicarbonate which seems to have a safe upper limit of about 9g/day for an average person, in your example it leads to 12g sodium bicarbonate (less than 3g dietary sodium) and 9g potassium bicarbonate or to make things easier a 50/50 ratio.

 

For the buffering what matters is the bicarbonate.

 

Supplementing It is actually interesting for a number of reasons:

 

http://examine.com/s...um Bicarbonate/

 

The 300mg/kg (up to 500mg/kg) is for athletes and performance, as a supplement for general health 5g/day potassium bicarbonate would likely do the job nicely.

 

Playing with the two (sodium and potassium bicarbonate) might be interesting in order to regulate blood pressure (sodium for low pressure, potassium for high pressure), easy, cheap, effective, healthy. 

 

 

 

 

[adamh]

If the mg rods produce so much hydrogen, I ask again why people don't just trap the gas and breath it rather than drink water full of sodium, mg and traces of who knows what? No one has tried to answer that question. They carefully walk around it like it was an open manhole and they don't want to fall in.

 

Its not that hard to do, I'll explain my method. You simply take a large glass or glass container of the right size and shape. Plastic will do if its fairly thick. Put in your stuff and then fill the glass or container with acid solution to the top after you put in your mg stick. You put a disc or sheet of plastic or whatever material over the opening. Now, invert it holding the lid in place and place it in a tub, pan, cut off gallon jug or whatever with some solution on the bottom. As the gas forms it drives out the water and pushes it into the container. After a while its full of gas with the mg sticks at the bottom. Now, carefully lift up the glass holding it upside down. The h will of course remain in the glass because its lighter than air.

 

I put a straw in the bottom which is really the inverted top of the glass. I take sips of h following it with a lung full of air. I hold as long as I'm comfortable and repeat until its gone. I feel the effects of the gas, it feels a bit like hyperventilating or breathing nitrous. Just a bit, not too strong but I can tell when there is h left and when its all gone. I use the topper to a container of yogurt which fits the glass perfectly. I have a string glued to it so I can pull it away when the glass is in place. Even if you fumble a bit and let in a bunch of air while putting the glass in the container, no problem because h will rise to the top and push out ordinary air at the bottom.

 

I of course skip the expensive mg rods, skip the malic acid, and skip the belly ache. I'm still electrolyzing the water and its works fine. Now someone tell me what's wrong with this and why its not tons better than drinking that slop? I really want to know. Even niners plan with the aluminum and lye is better than that.

 

I still feel benefits from it. My arthritis is noticeably better, sleep is better, neither are "fixed" but I'll take what I can get in the way of improvement. Mood is good, I'm not sure if its the h or positive thinking but its certainly not hurting. Other good things may be happening but I can't quantify them as yet. I may win over some converts yet.

 

How are the rest of you doing with the h water?

[TRUGAN]

I just ordered the rods from ebay and the the original Dr. Hayashi stick. I will play with he inferior stick till the ebay rods arrive. Does anyone know which machine would be the best if one were to go that way?