623 replies to this topic

[aconita]

In order to do it take a bottle (not glass) or other container in which the reaction takes place, provide it with an exit pipe (it might be easy to arrange it in the cap), run the pipe in another bottle (any material) straight to near the bottom, provide that second bottle with an exit pipe near the top , fill it up to 3/4 with water in such a way that the pipe coming from the reaction bottle is submersed and the exit pipe is not.

 

When the reaction produces hydrogen the pressure developing inside the container drives the gas to the second bottle where it bubbles from the bottom to the water surface leaving behind most impurities, the pressure developing inside the second bottle will drive the hydrogen in the exit pipe.

 

Provide that exit pipe wit a T junction where at one end there is a balloon acting as pressure tank and from the other end you can inhale the hydrogen, a valve will enable to regulate the desired pressure/gas flow.

 

An oxygen canula should be extremely cheap or make your own with a couple of T junctions and some pipe, connect it to the valve and you are ready to breath quite pure hydrogen, easier done than explained.

 

Beware that the lye/aluminum reaction develops heat which can melt the bottle if it is a plastic one, in order to avoid that keep it in a bigger water container as a cooler. 

[Nate-2004]

In order to do it take a bottle (not glass) or other container in which the reaction takes place, provide it with an exit pipe (it might be easy to arrange it in the cap), run the pipe in another bottle (any material) straight to near the bottom, provide that second bottle with an exit pipe near the top , fill it up to 3/4 with water in such a way that the pipe coming from the reaction bottle is submersed and the exit pipe is not.

 

When the reaction produces hydrogen the pressure developing inside the container drives the gas to the second bottle where it bubbles from the bottom to the water surface leaving behind most impurities, the pressure developing inside the second bottle will drive the hydrogen in the exit pipe.

 

Provide that exit pipe wit a T junction where at one end there is a balloon acting as pressure tank and from the other end you can inhale the hydrogen, a valve will enable to regulate the desired pressure/gas flow.

 

An oxygen canula should be extremely cheap or make your own with a couple of T junctions and some pipe, connect it to the valve and you are ready to breath quite pure hydrogen, easier done than explained.

 

Beware that the lye/aluminum reaction develops heat which can melt the bottle if it is a plastic one, in order to avoid that keep it in a bigger water container as a cooler. 

 

That sounds like a challenging device to build. I'm not that kind of engineer but I think I could build something like that with instructions, a diagram and materials that would work. I can't imagine what to use for the reaction chamber if not glass though. Certainly not metal or plastic either.

 

If you figure this out make a how to video!

[Nate-2004]

Pretty sure I was imagining things as far as hydrogen water's effects on my essential tremor. Unfortunately it does nothing. Just another coincidence. Every time I try something new it seems to have some minor effect where I think it's improving, then it's not improving at all, it just happens to be a day in which for some reason it's better. No idea what in particular causes it.

 

Still not sure just yet if hydrogen water is doing anything at all for me. I was already taking a lot of FOS from both supplements, bananas and lately, leeks, which I'd read from streamlover might produce a constant amount of hydrogen in the intestine. I didn't see any sources for that though.

 

Occasionally my ET is better, I wish I knew why. I can always tell mostly when playing things like Overwatch with the X-Box controller.

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 15 August 2016 - 11:42 PM.

[drlarryvon]

i would like to know if anyone has tried  this simple experiment to determine if the h2 water really has true orp effectiveness.

I saw that the Japanese in selling one of their generators was doing this experiment.

2 glasses of water, one with regular tap, and one with h2 water.

both glasses of an identical nail immersed.'

Note how long it takes for each of the nails to rust. The h2 water will most likely according to their claims prevent the nail from rusting.

Anyone thoughts?

 

Ok, the nail rusts fast, like within 12 hours totally has a good rust coating. But now I placed the nail in a cup of water where less than 2 grains or 150 mg of borax is dissolved. NO RUST EVEN AFTER 48 HOURS. Does that necessarily mean that a borax is an excellent antioxidant. I do not have an ORP meter, so if anyone can, add about 150 mg of borax to a glass of purified water, dissolve thoroughly, and measure the orp, hopefully around -250. Feedback would be appreciated,Thanks

[Nate-2004]

I can't see how testing it with a nail would help. The glass of h2 water would go flat in an hour after all the hydrogen escapes, and any nail would then rust.

 

H2 Blue is apparently the only method so far of testing it.

 

If I had a big 3D printer I could design some kind of machine that handles the kind of AL+Lye reactions we were talking about. Or perhaps a means of using that for creating H2 water or gas or both.

[Nate-2004]

If vinegar and magnesium produce H2 why not just use that instead of lye and aluminum for H2 gas?

 

Here is a site that explains why mg and CH3COOH react to produce hydrogen. It may also explain why vinegar removes the oxidation. 

 

Then again if the magnesium acetate that's left in the container gets mixed in with the gas I suppose it'd be bad. From wikipedia:

 

Magnesium acetate is a relatively safe compound to handle and has been given a health hazard rating of zero. However, it should always be handled with gloves and safety goggles. If it gets in the eyes, the skin, ingested, or inhaled it will cause irritation in the respective areas: eyes, skin, gastrointestinal system, and lungs.^[15

 

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 25 August 2016 - 10:51 PM.

[aconita]

If vinegar and magnesium produce H2 why not just use that instead of lye and aluminum for H2 gas?

 

Because lye and aluminum are much cheaper.

 

I recycle vinegar til no more reaction/cleaning, I keep my index finger stirring in it for the time needed to achieve the cleaning which with fresh vinegar is a few seconds but after a bit of use may take one minute or so...

 

I never experienced any skin issue on that finger which is always the same and used everyday.

 

I am not saying the vinegar didn't turn in something possibly unhealthy but for sure it doesn't seem to represent an hazard if it comes in contact with the skin, better not to dress your salad with it anyway, just in case.  

[Nate-2004]

I tried it, the reaction isn't strong enough to blow up a balloon apparently, or I was doing it wrong.

 

I tried putting a cheesecloth filter over the top of the bottle and the balloon over that so it could have been the cheesecloth that killed the pressure. I was trying to filter out the moisture.  Without a 3D printer or some skill in engineering and tools and stuff, there's not much of a chance of me making a cool device like you were talking about in my center city studio.

[Nate-2004]

I'm in the outer banks this week so it's been a few days without H2 water. After 3 days now I definitely notice a significant difference in my ET after all. So it is helping despite my second thought earlier that it didn't, and the effect is lasting longer, the longer I drink it.

Edited by Nate-2004, 29 August 2016 - 05:30 PM.

[Groundhog Day]

I did on average 32oz for close to a month and noted decreased muscle soreness, and slightly improved athletic performance. I've been on 64oz for 10 days I think and it's done wonders for my metabolism and obliterated my strong hunger and given me more mental clarity. This coming from someone with pre-diabetes, and insulin resistance.

 

 

[streamlover]

Nate-2004, Your description of your ET and how H2 has affected it reminded me that I don't have shaky hands any more either since starting this. My brother always called this "familial" tremors and he has it pretty bad and my sister had it also. I assume these are probably the same conditions. There are studies of H2 helping Parkinson's so I'm not surprised it helps with these tremors too.  I never really acknowledged that I had it and usually attributed the shakiness to low blood sugar but the H2 has disappeared it altogether and just really created a sense of physical "solidness" or groundedness. As with other symptoms it has helped, the more I drink the more evident the results. I haven't cut out the H2 water altogether for several days as you have but I suspect mine would return also if I did. So maybe it's not a cure but we don't know that either.

 

Groundhog Day...I also notice that I'm not so driven by food cravings and feeling I need to get something in my system. I've been underweight all my life and I noticed being very hungry after drinking H2 water when I first started this but that has leveled out now and I just feel more able to choose what I want to eat and mostly eat what seems a better diet. My weight seems to be stable now at a little over what I was for most of my life.

 

I'm still on the same recipe with 4-5 rods and 1gm of malic acid but am drinking maybe 5-7 bottles/day. If the rods displace 4 oz of water, that would be 60-80 oz of ~3.0 water which is working pretty well. I  DEFINITELY notice more benefits as the amount of H2 ingested goes up.

[Nate-2004]

Thanks for the response Streamlover, I can empathise for sure. Let's hope the effect is more permanent the longer we drink it. Not sure how long you've been going with this but you might try stopping to find out.

 

As for the response to the original topic of the post regarding ghrelin specifically, I read that ghrelin is an mTOR activator. That would not be good would it? I guess depending on your goal.

[aconita]

What is good or not is not so straightforward to determine, as humans we wish things to be black or white but reality is an infinite shades of grays.

 

Without mTOR or with its lower than normal expression I doubt you'll gonna be very happy.

 

Everything is there for a very good reason even if we don't fully comprehend it, too much is as detrimental as too little, that's why with certain supplements it is easier to do damages than improvements and it is better not to try to fix what isn't broken.

 

I think hydrogen water is a mild and safe supplement but I will not suggest it to someone young and healthy unless for specific goals. 

 

 

[Nate-2004]

I don't know that it's a supplement by definition anymore than quercetin is a supplement. That implies it's there to treat a deficiency. There's no such thing as a hydrogen deficiency. 

 

I understand mTOR is a double edged sword and it's used for performance and growth but causes aging, but I completely disagree that something isn't broken. Most people on this forum at least would agree that aging is a disease, it's what is broken essentially... or rather, breaking down... and it's something we're all striving to fix, or restore rather, or reverse or rejuvenate the effects of all its many causes. 

 

It remains to be seen whether H2 water is rejuvenating or if it's helpful at all towards that goal, in combination with other things. There's obviously no one thing that'll do the trick and it's a complicated system of catch 22's, double edged swords, feedback loops and other issues that will hopefully be figured out.

 

I don't think you can claim with any references that lower than normal mTOR expression is bad.

Edited by Nate-2004, 05 September 2016 - 02:20 AM.

[aconita]

I don't need to search for any reference to say that an under expression of cellular growth, proliferation, motility and survival would not be desirable.

 

There's no such thing as a hydrogen deficiency

 

We don't really know since hydrogen is naturally produced by our gut bacteria therefore likely subject to alterations due to microbiome shifts.

 

It is not about disguising words meanings, you can call it a supplement, a drug, a bio hacking procedure...

 

An mTOR level in the upper range would be desirable for performance and growth and likely not health detrimental when in that context, I am not aware that training causes aging, even if it shifts mTOR up.

 

Again about the meaning of words, I am not sure that disease is the most appropriate definition of aging, it causes diseases for sure.

 

Nothing wrong with fixing what is broken or breaking down, of course.

 

At present time the only things to slow down aging and prolonging lifespan are stress avoidance, active lifestyle and balanced diets, all the rest is just speculation, mice or yeast research or plain hope.

 

Supplements, drugs or bio hacking are for keeping things as well working as possible according to our present knowledge...and foraging hope.

 

 

 

 

[Nate-2004]

I don't need to search for any reference to say that an under expression of cellular growth, proliferation, motility and survival would not be desirable.

 

There's no such thing as a hydrogen deficiency

 

We don't really know since hydrogen is naturally produced by our gut bacteria therefore likely subject to alterations due to microbiome shifts.

 

It is not about disguising words meanings, you can call it a supplement, a drug, a bio hacking procedure...

 

An mTOR level in the upper range would be desirable for performance and growth and likely not health detrimental when in that context, I am not aware that training causes aging, even if it shifts mTOR up.

 

Again about the meaning of words, I am not sure that disease is the most appropriate definition of aging, it causes diseases for sure.

 

Nothing wrong with fixing what is broken or breaking down, of course.

 

At present time the only things to slow down aging and prolonging lifespan are stress avoidance, active lifestyle and balanced diets, all the rest is just speculation, mice or yeast research or plain hope.

 

Supplements, drugs or bio hacking are for keeping things as well working as possible according to our present knowledge...and foraging hope.

 

Actually, paradoxically, mTOR is an athletic performance and growth enhancer, but exercise is a bigtime inhibitor of mTOR, so is aspirin, and to a lesser degree, quercetin, apigenin, curcumin, etc.  I guess with mTOR, exercise is like NAD+, its increase activates sirtuins, but SIRT metabolites, NAM, inhibit sirtuins.

 

I can't disagree with the rest, without a noticeable reversal in age in humans (i.e. making 60 year olds indiscernible from 25 year olds), mice are all we have as far as being able to reasonably study lifespan. All this costly experimentation is the only hope we have and I'm not quite sure how long I will devote resources to some of it.

Edited by Nate-2004, 05 September 2016 - 03:12 AM.

[aconita]

exercise is a bigtime inhibitor of mTOR

 

Not sure about that...

 

If it was true athletes should be quite undeveloped which doesn't reflect reality of things...

 

Anyway:

 

http://www.sciencedi...084952114002535

[Nate-2004]

Inhibited in liver and fat cells.  Activated in brain, muscle and heart…. Interesting.

[aconita]

As said it's never just black or white....

[Nate-2004]

Kids have figured out a new way to create more hydrogen efficiently using strontium iridium oxide and iridium oxide. If any of you guys can figure out how they do this it would probably be the best means of making H2 water as well as gas.

 

 

[Junk Master]

I'd like to drink even more hydrogen water than I currently do-- about 30 ounces-- but do find my bowels getting a little loose.  I'm making it with rods and malic acid and don't mind the process.

 

Couldn't I just pour the water directly into a $8.99 Brita Pitcher filter from Target to remove some of the magnesium and drink immediately?  So, I'd drink a couple with magnesium, then the rest without?

 

 

[Nate-2004]

For one thing do brita filters remove magnesium?  Carbonated soda goes flat pretty quick and the carbon dioxide in the soda is a much bigger molecule than H2. I imagine that the H2 escapes pretty quickly from the water after you pour it and would go flat much sooner than an ordinary soda water. 

 

I don't know whether filtering it would result in less hydrogen or not, but you'd have to buy the H2 blue kit to test and find out if this would work and also find some way to test for mg. Some of what's left in the water is magnesium hydroxide as well, which I suspect is what's causing the issues in the bathroom no?

Edited by Nate-2004, 12 September 2016 - 05:24 PM.

[Junk Master]

Supposedly, Brita filters remove calcium, magnesium, lead etc...

 

Would also ease my fears about the purity of the magnesium rods.

 

Also, I just went to two rods for a 17oz brewing bottle with a very tight seal and am getting almost an explosive pop, plus the water is slightly fizzy, as if carbonated.   Is this a sign of too much malic acid, or just a good reaction?

[aconita]

It seems that fizzyness doesn't necessarily mean more hydrogen while a big pop does.

 

Too much malic acid leads to a more acidic taste.

 

Probably 4 rods would work slightly better because of more mag surface exposed.

 

Powdered mag is cheaper than rods and ready available at very good purity grade from fireworks suppliers but the amount of powder has to be calculated in such way that all goes in solution with each preparation.

 

Surface exposed would be optimal, more water per bottle since no rods to take room and no need for rinsing in vinegar.

 

 

[Nate-2004]

It seems that fizzyness doesn't necessarily mean more hydrogen while a big pop does.

 

Too much malic acid leads to a more acidic taste.

 

Probably 4 rods would work slightly better because of more mag surface exposed.

 

Powdered mag is cheaper than rods and ready available at very good purity grade from fireworks suppliers but the amount of powder has to be calculated in such way that all goes in solution with each preparation.

 

Surface exposed would be optimal, more water per bottle since no rods to take room and no need for rinsing in vinegar.

 

When I look for powdered magnesium I just find bulk supplements, which I don't think is the same thing is it?

[aconita]

Likely it isn't since it would not be pure mag.

 

I stumbled into this seller for example:

 

http://www.ebay.it/i...w8_SvX9p6Rjq8Nw

 

It would be probably not ideal for someone in the US to buy from Germany but some similar seller is certainly available in the States.

 

By the way the same seller carries aluminum powder too at about the same price.

[Nate-2004]

Yeah unfortunately most of the American sources I can find online are laboratory supplies only and one of them had the content of the other .01% and part of that was .006% lead which I don't know if that's negligible or not. 

 

This is where I got mine, they also sell on Amazon, but honestly I don't know what the other .05% is, I e-mailed them to ask.

 

UPDATE: I got an answer, see attached. Results are great. .01% of that is manganese which is good for GABA. Aluminum, Nickel, Silicon and Copper make up the rest and I also need copper so that's good. I don't know that any of that impurity gets into the water or not but if it did it wouldn't really matter.

Attached Files

•  Mg Rod 16mm x 93mm 3-30-2013 COA Proprietary Information Removed.pdf   229.58KB   3 downloads

Edited by Nate-2004, 14 September 2016 - 10:10 PM.

[Junk Master]

FYI for those of you still using the rod method, as I am, just pouring the H2 water through a Brita filter has completely taken away the loose bowel, sour stomach issue.

 

Also, letting the bottles chill in the fridge instead of sticking them straight in the freezer has resulted in a far more explosive "pop" which I'm hoping means a higher concentration of hydrogen.

 

Finally, the Brita filter serves a dual purpose in that it allows me to filter my hard well water instead of buying distilled water or adjusting PH.

[Junk Master]

Oh, I recently increased my 5x a week run to 45-50 minutes and muscle soreness is decreased, recovery faster, endurance better.  Though to be fair, I've been cheating a little by supplementing 100mg phenylpiracetam if tired.

[Nate-2004]

Were you able to test the concentration of H2 after filtering it? I have yet to buy that H2 blue stuff but I need to just do it, sucks that their shipping is ridiculous but it's apparently thanks to government as always.