623 replies to this topic

[NanoDoom]

The test tube method only uses 1 stick and the test tube isolates the reaction in the test tube so very little magnesium gets into the water.

 

What happens to the contents of the test tube once you shake the bottle?

 

Don't the malic acid and Mg spill out into the water?

[Junk Master]

BTW I've found a number of articles touting the combo of magnesium and malic acid, so I'm not sure it's just the hydrogen enriched water that was/is providing the benefits I'm seeing.

 

Here's one--

 

http://www.prohealth...cfm?libid=16575

 

I have a pyrex test tube on the way and will try the test tube method to see how it compares to the "old" way of making hydrogen water with magnesium rods.  I've found over time that a full over night "brewing" mitigates many of the excessing magnesium effects for me anyway.

[Lreader]

Update on test tube in a bottle: I'm now using a metal bottle instead of plastic. I actually get bottle expansion: the bottom of my metal bottle, which is normally concave, pops out under the pressure to become convex! This is great since it creates space at the top for hydrogen gas to collect. I also found out that none of the metal bottles, which have a wide enough neck to accept a test tube, can keep hydrogen gas from leaking, even the so called pressure proof metal caps that can keep in carbonation. I found this balloon method that I adapted for sealing a capped bottle:

 

Read all my latest updates on my blog: http://pieeconomics....log-page_2.html

Edited by Lreader, 21 March 2017 - 04:57 AM.

[NanoDoom]

Update on test tube in a bottle: I'm now using a metal bottle instead of plastic. I actually get bottle expansion: the bottom of my metal bottle, which is normally concave, pops out under the pressure to become convex! This is great since it creates space at the top for hydrogen gas to collect. I also found out that none of the metal bottles, which have a wide enough neck to accept a test tube, can keep hydrogen gas from leaking, even the so called pressure proof metal caps that can keep in carbonation. I found this balloon method that I adapted for sealing a capped bottle:

 

Read all my latest updates on my blog: http://pieeconomics....log-page_2.html

 

 

Are you still shacking the bottle?

 

If yes, aren't the contents of the test tube spilling into the water?
 

[aconita]

The test tube cap has only a VERY TINY hole in it, just enough to let the hydrogen out, the cohesion force between water molecules makes water very unlikely to escape from such a tiny hole and if it happens it is in really negligible amounts.

 

Magnesium and malic acid are good for health, the concern is just that if one wishes to drink a lot of hydrogen water too much magnesium might lead to unpleasant intestines reactions. 

[Betsy Maldonado]

The test tube has a cap of some sort.  I use a glass test tube with a cork that has holes in it naturally and others use a plastic test tube with a screw on lid with a tiny hole they make.  The water in the test tube is 1" away from the top of the test tube the reaction occurs at the bottom of the test tube.  I don't shake the bottle up and down.  I shake the bottle vigorously left to right.  The cork keeps the contents in the test tube.

 

 

The test tube method only uses 1 stick and the test tube isolates the reaction in the test tube so very little magnesium gets into the water.

 

What happens to the contents of the test tube once you shake the bottle?

 

Don't the malic acid and Mg spill out into the water?

 

 

[NanoDoom]

Is there still need for shaking if the bottle has no air in it at all?
I have a stainless steel bottle, with the kind of cap that allows me to ensure there is no air in the bottle at all when I screw on the cap.
And it being steel, I would imagine that the bottle will not expand from the pressure generated by the H2.

 

This is the bottle I have, btw:
https://www.amazon.c...zisoul ultimate

 

 

I have not received my magnesium rods yet. So I cannot test whether the bottle truly doesn't expand.

Edited by NanoDoom, 22 March 2017 - 01:26 AM.

[Hip]

NanoDoom, are you sure pressurizing a stainless steel bottle in this way is safe? If the bottle does not expand to any appreciable degree as the H2 gas is being generated, the pressure may build up to much higher levels than in the plastic bottle case, especially if there is no air space left in the stainless steel bottle bottle when it is closed (ie, if the water is filled to the brim).

 

 

In the case of the plastic PET bottles, even if there is no air space initially, these bottles expand to create an air space, which then relieves a lot of the pressure. Even so, the pressure builds up to 6 atmospheres or higher in the plastic bottles. But in a stainless steel bottle that does not expand much, the pressure may build up much higher. Which then might be an explosion risk.

 

I suggest anyone who wants to experiment with such high pressures should first acquaint themselves with Boyle's law. 

Edited by Hip, 22 March 2017 - 01:44 AM.

[Lreader]

NanoDoom, what is the inside diameter of your Ezisoul bottle's opening? The outside diameter of my test tube is 20 mm, so would there be enough clearance?

 

BTW, which length of 99.99% magnesium rods did you order, 100 mm or 127 mm? The 127 is skinny (15.875 mm) and fits the 20 mm (16 mm inside diameter) test tube, but the 100 is wider (18 mm) for which the 25 mm (21 mm inside diameter) test tube is readily available.

 

Hip, how many atmospheres of pressure do you think a high quality stainless steel bottle like Klean Kanteen can withstand safely?

[Hip]

Hip, how many atmospheres of pressure do you think a high quality stainless steel bottle like Klean Kanteen can withstand safely?

 

How would anyone know? It's not designed for pressure, so there won't be any data. 

[Hip]

Even the bottle tops on PET plastic soda bottles are designed for pressure, and are designed not to shoot off at high speed like a bullet when opened. Whereas if a bottle top is not designed for pressure, you may get this bullet effect when you open the bottle. You could lose an eye if you were unlucky. 

Edited by Hip, 22 March 2017 - 03:37 AM.

[Betsy Maldonado]

I read somewhere that the reaction stops in many mental containers... I can't remember why... but I think it had something to do with pressure not being able to escape at all and then the ppm of hydrogen only goes so far and then stops.  I would steer clear of using any stainless steel container.  That is a serious accident waiting to happen.  I am no scientist but this seems wayyyyyyy too risky. Even more dangerous than using glass bottles.

[NanoDoom]

 

NanoDoom, are you sure pressurizing a stainless steel bottle in this way is safe?

No, I am not sure that it is safe at all.

 

I got the idea from a vendor (whom I cannot find now, of course) who sells the exact same bottle (different label on it) for use with said vendor's H2 tablets.

 

I have no idea about this, but my immediate guess is that such a H2 tablet gives off roughly the same amount of H2 and, thus, pressure as the Mg-in-a-test-tube setup does.
I do not know. Just guessing.

I'm willing to be the guinea pig once I get all my supplies gathered. I shall wear protective goggles when opening the bottle the first time.

Edited by NanoDoom, 22 March 2017 - 05:36 PM.

[NanoDoom]

NanoDoom, what is the inside diameter of your Ezisoul bottle's opening? The outside diameter of my test tube is 20 mm, so would there be enough clearance?

 

BTW, which length of 99.99% magnesium rods did you order, 100 mm or 127 mm? The 127 is skinny (15.875 mm) and fits the 20 mm (16 mm inside diameter) test tube, but the 100 is wider (18 mm) for which the 25 mm (21 mm inside diameter) test tube is readily available.

 

I just measured the diameter now. It comes to roughly 37 mm. So seems there would be plenty of room for your test tube.

 

They advertise that the opening is large enough to take ice cubes (whatever that means, precisely).

 

The Mg rods are listed as 18 mm x 100 mm (have not measured myself).

 

I'm still waiting for the test tubes to arrive from China. God only knows when when they will be here. But I had a hard time finding tubes large enough for the rods. I had a limited choice of rods, so I had to go find test tubes in a rare size, unfortunately. Rare for ebay.co.uk anyways.

[NanoDoom]

I forgot to add that the vendor that sells the H2 tablets, with that stainless steel bottle, claims to be getting 7 ppm H2 in this bottle.

[Hip]

I forgot to add that the vendor that sells the H2 tablets, with that stainless steel bottle, claims to be getting 7 ppm H2 in this bottle.

 

The fixed H2 tablet size with a measured quantity magnesium will limit the pressure build up in the stainless steel bottle. It is possible that this commercial product will also have a way to create an air space in the bottle, which limits the pressure (by Boyle's law).  

 

Do you understand how Boyle's law of gas pressure and gas volume works, NanoDoom? The less volume a gas has to expand into, the higher the pressure build up.

 

 

With your setup using magnesium rods, you will get constant production of H2 gas, because even when the acid runs out, the magnesium rod will continue to produce H2 gas via magnesium's reaction with the water. This reaction with water is slower that the reaction with acid, but it will continue almost indefinitely. 

 

When I leave one of my hydrogen rich water plastic soda bottles unopened for days, even though the acid reaction with the magnesium runs out after the first hour or two, the magnesium still continues to react with the water itself, making more H2, and so after some days, the plastic bottle becomes very swollen, literally looking like it will explode at any moment. 

 

The way around this is to use Aconita's better approach employing magnesium powder rather than a rod. Then you can use a fixed amount of power, so that the reaction will stop after the magnesium runs out.

 

 

I think what you are doing with stainless steel bottles is potentially dangerous. 

[NanoDoom]

Hip, I want to thank you for your warning.

 

I might try letting the rods react for, say, 15 minutes, then open the bottle and see how much 'pop' I get.
Then gradually build up, perhaps.

 

Btw, here is the video of the vendor I mentioned:

 

I'm 99,999% certain I have the exact same type of bottle.

[aconita]

Just leave some air space in the bottle and you should be fine.

[The.End]

Raw MK677 is dirt cheap. I have 10 years worth at my house. Use nootropicsource' promo code Jenden for 10% off and it'll take like $50-100 bucks off bulk depending on the amount you get. Stuff is killer quality

[Irishdude]

Raw MK677 is dirt cheap. I have 10 years worth at my house. Use nootropicsource' promo code Jenden for 10% off and it'll take like $50-100 bucks off bulk depending on the amount you get. Stuff is killer quality

How do you know it is killer quality? And why buy such a quantity?

Edited by Irishdude, 02 April 2017 - 08:30 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Why don't you guys use a pressure cooker for this? At least that is designed to withstand pressure. In case of an accident you may choose to declare the glory of G-d.

[The.End]

Something tells me SARMs won't be around much longer

And I know because I've used many different vendors and once worked for vendor who was known as the kind of SARMs, peptides and hormones, original owner of AAR and used all their products, unfortunately the owner, and my best friend passed away a few days back God bless his soul, so after working with him for a few months I've become very pick on purity and product

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Something tells me SARMs won't be around much longer

And I know because I've used many different vendors and once worked for vendor who was known as the kind of SARMs, peptides and hormones, original owner of AAR and used all their products, unfortunately the owner, and my best friend passed away a few days back God bless his soul, so after working with him for a few months I've become very pick on purity and product

Why did he pass away? And SARMs already are illegal many places just like SERMs

[drlarryvon]

i took half a glass of tap water (yes yukky tap water) which measured +176 ORP and dropped into it 3 small grains of NaBH (sodium borohydride) and stirred ... a few seconds later the ORP reading shot to -639 ORP (i.e. minus 639 ORP)

Nothing more and nothing less ... just tap water and NaBH.

 

Add 1/4  teaspoon of sodium ascorbate, to increase orp even more to -800 orp.

 

Has anyone done this for the antioxidant benefits of drinking this water?

[resveratrol_guy]

Would it make more sense to use magnesium ribbon (see eBay, for instance) as opposed to magnesium rods? It would have much more surface area per gram. (But could it actually explode on contact with water?) For that matter, has anyone performed a simple density test (weight divided by volume of fluid displaced) to confirm that the rods are in fact magnesium? (And who knows how many different brands of rods we're collectively using.)

 

I definitely endorse the idea of filtering the water back through Brita because who knows what's really in them. One reviewer on eBay thought they were aluminum; a density test would confirm. (Of course, the Chinese are also famous for filling gold "bullion" with tungsten cores, so who knows what's inside the rods as well.)

 

It occurred to me that the testtube-in-bottle method might be creating a lot of pressure at the top of the bottle, but not much H2 concentration in the water, until we wait who-knows-how-long for it to slowly dissolve in. Shaking doesn't likely help because it doesn't produce fine enough bubbles. However, an aquarium airstone (no, not the cheapo blue stuff made of weird chemical crystals!) might help. (Try "aquarium glass co2 diffuser" on eBay.) I would throw away the first batch in case residual manufacturing dust was present on the diffuser. The only problem is that you need to get one small enough to fit into a bottle, or find a bottle that's safe to use under pressure but has a big cap. Alternatively, you could use a wood diffuser, which seems quite safe, but they're rare these days.

 

Nevertheless I really like the idea of keeping the reagents out of the water. If the Chinese manufacturers can find a way to cut corners by including, for instance, aluminum, they will. Let's not forget, for that matter, that aluminum is horrible for neurological health.

 

[Hip]

It occurred to me that the testtube-in-bottle method might be creating a lot of pressure at the top of the bottle, but not much H2 concentration in the water, until we wait who-knows-how-long for it to slowly dissolve in. Shaking doesn't likely help because it doesn't produce fine enough bubbles.

 

The test tube in a bottle method creates 1 ppm hydrogen rich water before shaking, and 5 ppm after 30 seconds shaking. So shaking works and makes a major difference. This is also what they found in the study detailed earlier in this thread.

[resveratrol_guy]

The test tube in a bottle method creates 1 ppm hydrogen rich water before shaking, and 5 ppm after 30 seconds shaking. So shaking works and makes a major difference. This is also what they found in the study detailed earlier in this thread.

 

Oh OK, thanks for the clarification. So what about using magnesium ribbon? Also, do you even try to clean your magnesium rods before use? I would imagine that they have bacteria, oil, and perhaps machining dust on them to begin with, but I don't know if they should be cleaned with alcohol, water, or what.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 03 May 2017 - 07:26 PM.

[Hip]

Oh OK, thanks for the clarification. So what about using magnesium ribbon?

 

I've used both magnesium rods and ribbon, and they both work well. I have yet to try magnesium powder, which was discussed earlier in the thread, and has the advantage that you could mix it up with your citric acid powder in the right proportions, in order to make a ready-made agent that you can just add into your test tube. 

[resveratrol_guy]

 

Oh OK, thanks for the clarification. So what about using magnesium ribbon?

 

I've used both magnesium rods and ribbon, and they both work well. I have yet to try magnesium powder, which was discussed earlier in the thread, and has the advantage that you could mix it up with your citric acid powder in the right proportions, in order to make a ready-made agent that you can just add into your test tube. 

 

 

In that case, I would probably just stick to rods. The ribbon is harder to clean, and the powder is downright impossible. Also, with powder, one can't really ascertain density, which is about the only economical way we have to confirm that magnesium is actually magnesium.

 

Would it be possible to just put a rod into a test tube, then pour in some pure lemon juice, then put on a stopper with a pinhole?
 

[resveratrol_guy]

Also... supposedly ribbon and powder are more flammable than a solid magnesium rod. This makes sense from a surface area perspective.

 

Secondly, it sounds like experiments have demonstrated that the effects are due to hormesis, and not direct antioxidant activity. (The latter could still be important, but mediated by downstream effects instead of electron donation from H2 itself.) This 2012 metastudy notes: "Two enigmas, however, remain to be solved. First, no dose-response effect is observed. Rodents and humans are able to take a small amount of hydrogen by drinking hydrogen-rich water, but marked effects are observed. Second, intestinal bacteria in humans and rodents produce a large amount of hydrogen, but an addition of a small amount of hydrogen exhibits marked effects." The answer to the second enigma is probably that hydrogen produced by gut bacteria is not sufficiently well dissolved in liquid to have any meaningful effect. But the answer to the first enigma sounds like a classic example of hormesis at work.

 

What to take from this? First of all, buy rods, not powder or ribbon. Secondly, don't go to great lengths to maximize your dose at any one time; rather, take a normal glass of the stuff just as you would with a glass of water, a few times per day. Otherwise, the extra H2 concentration may do you little or no additional good, but the excess magnesium could result in brain fog, kidney stones, or other issues. (The brain fog is reversible, at least.) Clearly the test tube method could help out here. My problem with that method, though, is that it's unclear to me how to remove the test tube in order to recharge the acid level without causing sanitation problems or evicting too much hydrogen from the water in the process. (Maybe one only needs to recharge once per full soda bottle consumed?)

 

BTW that metastudy claims that the maximum possible H2 concentration in water at room temperature is only 1.6 ppm. I suspect this conclusion is the result of reliance upon erroneous lab work, but it does at least call into question our method of measurement. Nevertheless, it sounds like the issue is moot if the hormesis hypothesis is accurate. And it wouldn't surprise me, because H2 is incredibly tiny, not unlike the radium atoms in radium water which, in tiny doses, made people healthier. (Don't go drinking radium water, though, unless you want bone cancer!)