623 replies to this topic

[aconita]

Adamh, you keep calling for evidence of very well known physics facts but never provide any in support of your speculations.

 

or one of those rigs they use for cars that generate h. They run off 12v so any car battery charger will work fine on them.

 

Is this "a food preparation device that would need fda approval"?

 

Thats only 1.2 ppm, I see no problem with that.

 

I am aware about of your difficulties in understanding the basic physic principle of PRESSURE as essential in order to get substantial amounts of a gas dissolved in liquids...

 

That device doesn't seem able to provide much pressure if any at all and your idea of bubbling hydrogen through water follows the same misunderstanding.

 

Hydrogen health mechanisms aren't clear yet but there is a decent amount of research done so far, educate yourself and come back with evidence supporting your claims in order to avoid making a fool of yourself.

 

You might start here:

 

http://www.molecular...on.org/studies/

 

Every route of administration has its own peculiarity, inhaling doesn't seem to posses the one of raising ghrelin regardless of what you wish, I am sorry, sometimes life is harsh. 

[Hip]

12 seconds? Why not one second if you don't care about maximizing h2 intake? You want max intake not min so you hold it as long as you can. I can hold my breath a couple minutes though 1 minute  is more comfortable. This would be 5 times your estimate. So instead of the .03ppm you came up with it might be .15. Another factor is when you exhale you do not exhale every bit of h in your lungs. Some remains and is absorbed later. 

 

It is unlikely you would be able to hold a full lungful of pure H2 for more than around 10 to 30 seconds without collapsing unconscious.

 

Gases like helium and H2 can be used for suicide purposes: they are not toxic, but breathing them kills by blocking off the oxygen. When people commit suicide by breathing helium in the absence of oxygen (using a bag over the head, connected to a helium suppy), they can be struck unconscious in as little as 10 seconds, but on average it takes around 30 seconds to lose consciousness. Death then follows in 5 to 10 minutes.

 

And in the past, there were stories of welders accidentally killing themselves by connecting their breathing masks to their H2 tank, rather than the air supply. If you do this, if you start breathing pure H2 via a face mask, you can be unconscious in 10 seconds, and dead within 5 to 10 minutes. That's why these days, the valves on H2 tanks are purposely made different to the air valves, so that welders cannot mistakenly connect their masks to the H2 tank and kill themselves.

 

Thus the figure of 12 seconds I used is around about the maximum you could safely achieve if breathing in pure H2, with no air and oxygen in your lungs. 

 

If you mix in some air with the H2, so that there is also some oxygen in your lungs, then you will be able to hold your breath for longer, but then if there is air in the lungs as well, the absorption of H2 will go down anyway, so that what you gain in time, you may lose in absorption, so you are probably back where you started.

 

The only way I can see that you can attain higher blood ppm levels is by performing multiple inhalations of H2 over many breaths. But you say that you only breathe a small gulp of H2 in one single breath. 

 

 

It's possible that your single gulps of H2 gas might cause ghrelin release, but we just don't know, because we don't have any data.

 

If I were buying a car, and the salesman told me the engine might work, but that the engine might also be broken and useless, I'd think I'd pass on that particular car, and find a vehicle that was guaranteed to function.

Edited by Hip, 21 May 2017 - 01:51 AM.

[adamh]

Pass out after 10 to 30 seconds? While running a race perhaps but not sitting in an easy chair. Its impossible to get all oxygen out of your lungs anyway and people can exhale and hold their breath for longer than 30 seconds. I just tried it myself and felt oxygen deprived but no where near fainting after 30 seconds. If I was to win 1M dollars for doing it a minute I would sure go for it.

 

I also do not see the need to have only pure h in your lungs in order to absorb it well. H is very easily absorbed because it penetrates so well. You are not going to be able to absorb all the h in a lungful or even half lungful. If you have lets say 16 cubic inches available out of the quart or so, then that should be more than enough to do you even if you don't absorb it all, maybe half.

 

I'm not going to ask to see all the scientific studies to support the things you claim, we are just talking and the studies don't exist in most cases. Applying scientific principles to known events can be productive and lead to explanations. If you don't want to accept that breathing it is a good roa, then don't use it. Problem solved. If you don't want to use a tank or test tube to make your h water, use the rods or whatever pleases you. We are just each of us making the case for various things.

 

The coffee pot like device in ebay is one example of possibly better technology or less work at a slightly higher cost, but no one is forced to use that rather than something else. The device for a car will produce gas h2, a tank has it ready to use at a moments notice. Any of these can  be used to produce h water. A thread like this brings out all the tecs. Make valid criticisms of course, point out possible flaws but keep in mind the flaw may or may not be valid and may be easily overcome. I try to do this, I accept that h water is probably a good thing to use, there seems evidence of that. So I brought up other ways to make it as well as using the gas itself without putting it in water.

 

A vigorous debate brings out things that everyone can use. As they read the thread they learn more and more. I learn something new every day myself it seems. 

[Hip]

Pass out after 10 to 30 seconds? 

 

From the Wikipedia article on helium suicide: 

Inhalation of 100% pure helium (which is not mixed with oxygen) causes rapid death due to oxygen deprivation (since the helium displaces the oxygen). When breathing pure helium inside a plastic bag, unconsciousness follows after about 5 breaths. In 62 cases where "time to unconsciousness" was reported, the average was 35 seconds (range 10-120 seconds). Death will often follow in about 10 minutes, sometimes as quickly as 5 minutes. 

Hydrogen is just as effective as helium for suicide purposes. 

 

I would guess that if you fully emptied your lungs the best you can, and then breath in a few liters of pure hydrogen gas  (with no air), you will start feeling pretty uncomfortable after 15 seconds, and will be gasping for breath by 25 seconds.  

 

 

 

I'm not going to ask to see all the scientific studies to support the things you claim, we are just talking and the studies don't exist in most cases. 

 

The facts and figures I quoted are referenced by the appropriate studies earlier in this thread. If you want to read them, have a look at these older posts.

 

 

I also do not see the need to have only pure h in your lungs in order to absorb it well. 

 

Well maybe you don't appreciate that the percentage of H2 and the percentage of air in your lungs determines how much H2 gets dissolved into the blood. If you have 5.5 liters of air, and only 500 ml of H2, much less H2 gets absorbed compared to a situation where you have 6 liters of pure H2 in the lungs. 

 

It is all to do with partial pressures and Henry’s law. Maybe you might take an interest in that, and look it up.

 

I based my earlier calculation on the idea that your lungs were completely filled with H2 (the lungs have around a 6 liter capacity). Under those circumstances, you are going to get (if you are very lucky) a 1.57 ppm H2 concentration in the 1 liter of blood in the lungs, which then gets diluted down to 0.03 ppm in the body by the calculation I explained earlier. 

 

But if you only have 500 ml of H2 in your lungs, and the rest air, then you are going to get much less H2 dissolved in that 1 liter of blood surrounding the lungs, and so a correspondingly lower H2 ppm concentration in your body.

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 21 May 2017 - 06:19 AM.

[Hip]

 

 If you don't want to accept that breathing it is a good roa, then don't use it. Problem solved. 

 

The problem is that you are going around promoting your method of breathing H2, when you don't know whether or not it can stimulate ghrelin release (which may be the most important aspect of this health supplement). Yet you omit to mention this shortcoming in your posts about your method.  

 

 

Edited by Hip, 21 May 2017 - 06:14 AM.

[Hip]

adamh, here is an idea for you: if you want to get scientific, you may be able to actually measure the ppm concentration of H2 in your blood and body resulting from breathing H2. 

 

The idea involves using the H2Blue drops (which cost $30 a bottle) to measure the ppm concentration of H2 in your saliva, some time after (say 30 minutes after) you breath in some H2 gas into your lungs in your usual way. The saliva ppm levels I am guessing should be a reflection of the general ppm level in your body and blood resulting from breathing in the H2.

 

The H2Blue drops can measure ppm levels down to an accuracy of 0.1 ppm, because each drop in the bottle represents 0.1 ppm of dissolved H2 gas. Basically, to use H2Blue, you add these drops, one by one, to a 6 ml sample of your solution to be tested (saliva in this case), counting the drops as you go. The 6 ml of solution of H2 will neutralize the blue color of the drops to begin with, but at a certain point, the color of the drops will stop being neutralized, and at this point, the number of drops that you have placed in the solution gives you the ppm of the solution. So for example, if the blue color of the drops stops being neutralized after 12 drops, then the H2 concentration of the solution being tested is 1.2 ppm.

 

Streamlover shows how to use the H2Blue drops in his video at timecode 12.50.

 

So, what you can do is perform your usual H2 breathing (taking your usual gulp of H2 gas into your lungs), and then after giving some time for the H2 gas to distribute around your body (I would wait say 30 minutes), then take an exact 6 ml sample of your saliva, and add the H2Blue drops to it, to measure the H2 concentration in the saliva.

 

In fact, because I calculated the concentration in the body (and thus the saliva) to be around 0.03 ppm after breathing a lungful H2 gas, that's actually too small to measure using the H2Blue drops (which can only measure down to 0.1 ppm), so what you can do is increase your body ppm levels by a factor of 10, by taking 10 of your usual gulps of H2 gas (over a period of several minutes), and then after waiting 30 minutes, measure your saliva ppm. By my calculation, the saliva ppm will then be around 0.3 ppm mark, which would correspond to 3 drops of H2Blue.

 

So then you just divide your saliva ppm results by 10 to get the body and blood ppm achieved from one of your usual gulps of H2 gas.

 

 

 

(If breathing in 10 of your usual gulps of H2 gas still does not produce a saliva ppm high enough to be measured, then you may have to increase your intake to say 30 gulps of H2 gas or more, and then measure the saliva ppm, and then divide your results by 30). 

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 21 May 2017 - 06:27 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Hip, the idea of using H2Blue to measure one's endogenous H2 concentration sounds like a good idea. I wonder if urine would be better than saliva, though, because it's not exposed directly to outside air and therefore has no easy way to shed excess H2. (Maybe test both?) Obviously color is also a problem with urine. I guess one would need to drink excess water to dilute it beforehand.

 

 

Thanks to everyone for providing so much detail. That helps, considering that we have so many blindspots in the research.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 23 May 2017 - 03:13 AM.

[Hip]

resveratrol_guy, yes, urine might also work. 

[resveratrol_guy]

As of just now I'm back on H2. We'll see if I sleep better, now that I'm all placebo-primed for exactly that outcome :-)

 

I did notice something odd, though. When I switched from these 99.95% rods:

 

https://www.amazon.c...duct/B00C0WKZU6

 

to these 99.99% rods:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162468235705

 

the production per unit of lemon juice was cut in half. On closer inspection, this appears to be because the 99.95% rods have salient circular ridges, whereas the other ones don't. (Maybe that's what "turned" means.) Presumably, this adds enough to their surface area to account for the superior froth production. (It may or may not perist as oxidation proceeds, depending on how this distinction effects that progression.) It might be worth someone buying a set and sending them in for rigorous inspection. My own density calculations were acceptable to within the error margin, at 1.73 g/mL, for what it's worth.

 

Also, I still had a bit of overpressure problem with my new cork stoppers, so I used a corkscrew to  create more gaps. I sprayed off the excess cork debris, and tried again with the test tube method. It worked quite well.

 

And last but not least, as before I took the precaution of doing a few discarded runs (5, actually), to burn off the superficial oxides and who-knows-what industrial substances.

 

Thanks again to everyone sharing info here. Keep it up.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 25 May 2017 - 07:08 AM.

[Hip]

@aconita, would you have any other links to people who sell 99.99% (or thereabouts) magnesium powder? The link you gave me before is no longer selling the powder. 

 

What I want to do is create a ready-made mixture of citric acid and magnesium powder (in the right proportions) in a large jar, which I can then add to test tubes.

 

I bought a box of 10 cheap plastic test tubes with plastic stoppers, and what I plan to do is make a batch of 10 bottle of hydrogen rich water in one go, using these 10 test tubes. That way, I do not need to worry about making a bottle of hydrogen rich water every day, as my batch of 10 bottles will last for 10 days. In a study mentioned earlier in this thread, they said that hydrogen rich water lasts for many weeks inside a bottle, if you do not open it (so that it remains under pressure).

 

 

By the way, if you want to buy plastic test tubes with plastic stoppers very cheaply, look on eBay for "plastic test tubes for shots". These are plastic tubes used for alcoholic drinks. You can buy 10 of these test tubes for around £3. They typically have a diameter of 16 mm, and length of 150 mm, which will easily fit through the standard 22 mm inner diameter of a plastic soda bottle

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 26 May 2017 - 05:51 PM.

[aconita]

Some differences in purity and prices...but here you go:

 

http://www.rakuten.d...sktop_view=true

 

http://www.ebay.de/i...MIAAOSwdGFY1Bx1

 

http://www.ebay.de/i...LAAAOSwlV9WQ7sN

 

http://www.ebay.de/i...1o_fDPpmM5N_XTA

 

http://www.ebay.de/i...vkCWud4OGcF252g

 

What I want to do is create a ready-made mixture of citric acid and magnesium powder (in the right proportions) in a large jar, which I can then add to test tubes.

 

Yep, I think that's the smartest way to go, I am going to go like that too as soon as my rods will wear off completely (it takes forever....).

[Hip]

Many thanks for those links @aconita. I shall have to look more often on the German ebay for things like this, as there is some useful stuff there.

 

Though they are selling 99.9% pure magnesium powder, but I seem to remember (but I might be wrong) that the German link you gave me before was 99.98% or 99.99% pure powder.

 

I guess 99.9% should be fine though, given that we are not consuming this magnesium in the "test tube within a bottle" method of making hydrogen rich water.

Edited by Hip, 27 May 2017 - 12:54 AM.

[aconita]

The first link above (the shop one) is the site of the same eBay seller I gave you the link a while ago (it seems he isn't listing on eBay anymore), if I do remember correctly.

 

I don't remember if it was 99,99 or 99,9% but maybe now the available mag powder is slightly different....

 

The good thing about that seller is the impurities are listed and max amount of each specified, at least one knows what is getting.

 

I am not so sure the advertised claims of 99,99% of Chinese rods are real...knowing Chinese sellers I will take that with a grain of salt, anyway those have been proved in practice to not contaminate the water in a detectable way, which is the main thing.

 

I am quite confident that 99,9% is very safe for our scope, municipality piping and reservoirs are likely way bigger source of concerns. 

[Hip]

Yes, I read before that the Chinese are prone to exaggerate their specifications on products.
 
I was interested in finding some high purity 99.99% magnesium powder because I wanted to do an experiment, placing around say 50 mg of magnesium powder in a capsule, as well as some citric acid, and swallowing that powder with a main meal (the main meal will ensure there is plently of hydrochloric acid present in the stomach), in order to create H2 gas directly in the stomach. 
 
You can buy hydrogen rich water tablets, and I expect that they are probaly just magnesium powder and an acid like citric or malic acid. The ingredients for H2Viva tablets are given here:
 
 

What are the ingredients in H2Viva Tabs?

A proprietary patent pending hydrogen formula. Other ingredients are magnesium, magnesium malate, magnesium fumarate 50mg. 10%.Mannitol, magnesium malate, magnesium, magnesium fumarate, malic acid, fumaric acid.

 
But such tablets are very expensive, so it would be cheaper to make your own.
 
 
 
It is good to see the list of the other metal contaminants present in the magnesium powder sold by www.rakuten.de:
 
Mg min. 99.8%
Fe max. 0.05%
Al max. 0.05%
Ni max. 0.005%
Mn max. 0.1%
Si max. 0.05%
Cu max. 0.02%
 
Out of those metals, aluminium and nickel would be the only ones of potential concern. The other metals are required minerals of the body, and so would be safe. Not really of concern though if you are using the "test tube within a bottle method", where you don't really consume any of the magnesium reactant.

Edited by Hip, 31 May 2017 - 06:07 AM.

[sub7]

With hydrogen rich water known to elicit Gherlin release, has anyone experienced increased hunger after consuming it?

With hydrogen rich water known to elicit Gherlin release, has anyone experienced increased hunger after consuming it?

[aconita]

Not me.... but I eat like there is no tomorrow anyway...

[Senshido]

Hello, i have learned a lot from this thread and begin to experiment now. Thanks to all.

 

I found an interesting study which showed that Magnesium nanopowder (without any acid) vigorously reacts with water at room temperature to generate a good amount of hydrogen. For example, when 1 g of the Mg nanopowder (average particle size 265 nm) reacted with water for only 600 sec., 110 ml of hydrogen gas was generated. If i remember correctly Hip wrote that the methods introduced here created 60 to 90 ml of H2 gas when approximately 5 grams of citric acid powder was used. In the study they used only distilled water at room temperature, without any catalysts:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5090637/

 

Maybe we can speed up our daily H2-Water-procedure by using nanopowders and dont need any kind of acid either?! Here in Germany i found the smallest Magnesium powder here:

https://www.rakuten....1573646765.html

 

...it has a size of 40µm and is 99,8 % pure. 40µm are 40.000 nm which seems to be a big difference in relation to the powder used in the study. But maybe It's worth trying. Or has someone already used such fine powders?!

Edited by Senshido, 24 July 2017 - 05:32 PM.

[Hip]

Hi Senshido, that would be an interesting experiment to try. According to the study you linked to:  

 

 

The nanopowder vigorously reacted with water at room temperature, producing 110 ml of hydrogen gas per 1 g of powder in 600 s.

 

I am not sure why it takes so much magnesium to create so little H2 gas. I find that it only requires around 400 to 500 mg of magnesium to produce 500 ml of hydrogen, when reacting with citric, malic or acetic acid.

 

It could be because the magnesium oxide created by the reaction of magnesium with water is insoluble, and so coats the outside of the magnesium nanoparticles, thereby preventing any further reaction. Whereas the reaction of magnesium with citric, malic or acetic acid creates soluble salts that do not coat the magnesium.

 

 

If you are using a 1.5 liter plastic soda bottle to make your hydrogen rich water as I do, you need to generate around 500 ml of hydrogen gas in the bottle in order to achieve the required internal pressures of around 6 to 7 atmospheres.

 

So that means you would need around 5 grams of the magnesium nanopowder to produce one bottle of hydrogen rich water. The source you provided sells magnesium nanopowder for 22.80 euro per 500 grams, so the cost per gram is around 0.05 euro. So then cost of the 5 grams required to make one bottle of hydrogen rich water is 0.25 euro. This cost is around 10 times the cost of per bottle that I get with the magnesium + citric acid method.

 

 

The magnesium nanopowder might be interesting to use with citric acid though, as it might speed up the reaction. When I make a bottle of hydrogen rich water using citric acid and a magnesium rod, it takes around 45 minutes or so for the reaction to complete. But I imagine that due to the greatly increased surface area of the nanopowder, citric acid + magnesium nanopowder might react a lot faster than 45 minutes, so that you could speed up the production time.

Edited by Hip, 24 July 2017 - 06:15 PM.

[Senshido]

Hi Hip,

yes you are right about the higher costs. What picked my interest most from this study was the quick reaction time with that nanopowder. I have tested a powder already, not so fine like the 40µm, but the reaction in the tube ended relatively fast (after 3-5 minutes). The liquid inside the tube was clear and no magnesium or malic acid was detectable anymore, so i think this could really speed everything up. But i am only at the beginning with my own tests at this time and have to find the right bottle and mixing ratio´s für the powders. I started very low with only 85 mg magnesiumpowder and 2g of malic acid because i was not sure if my bottle holds the pressure. So there was only 1ppm of hydrogen at the end, i think the internal pressure was to low. I used a platypus-bottle. Very expandable but maybe even too much.

 

Do you know how much magnesium is used in your procedure for producing this amount of hydrogen?! I mean can you measure how much mg per usage reacts? So maybe i can have a ratio-orientation, for how much mg mag.powder i should use.

Edited by Senshido, 24 July 2017 - 07:30 PM.

[Hip]

Do you know how much magnesium is used in your procedure for producing this amount of hydrogen?! I mean can you measure how much mg per usage reacts? So maybe i can have a ratio-orientation, for how much mg mag.powder i should use.

 
You can actually calculate from the chemical reaction equation how much magnesium is needed, and how much H2 gas will be produced by a given amount of magnesium, which I will do as follows.

 

The reaction equation for citric acid is:  
 
Magnesium + citric acid —> hydrogen gas + magnesium citrate
Mg + C₆H₈O₇  —>  H₂ + MgC₆H₆O₇ 
 
So one atom of magnesium reacts with one molecule of citric acid to produce one molecule of H2 hydrogen gas.
 
The molecular weight for these chemicals is:
 
Magnesium molecular weight = 24.305 grams per mole
Citric acid molecular weight = 192.124 grams per mole
Hydrogen (H2) molecular weight = 2.01 grams per mole
 
So you can see from these figures that the ratio of citric acid to magnesium needed for the reaction is 192.124 / 24.305 = 7.9. Thus 7.9 is our ratio of citric acid to magnesium. So if you use 3 grams of citric acid, then you'll need 3 / 7.9 = 0.379 grams ( 379 mg) of magnesium. In fact, you need a little bit more magnesium than that to react with the citric acid, because some of the magnesium will react directly with the water rather than the citric acid, and gets used up that way; so you need to accommodate that by using a slightly high amount of magnesium. Thus in practice, something like 500 mg of magnesium is required to react with 3 grams of citric acid in water.

 

In terms of how much hydrogen gas 3 grams of citric acid and 379 mg of magnesium will produce, again the equation tells you. The ratio of the molecular weights of citric acid to H2 hydrogen is 192.124 / 2.01 = 95.9. So that means 3000 mg of citric acid will produce 3000 / 95.9 = 31.3 mg of H2 gas. 

 

But what does 31.3 mg of H2 gas correspond to in terms of volume? Well you can use the Ideal Gas Law Equation to calculate how much volume 1 mg of H2 gas will occupy at room temperature 20ºC and at standard atmospheric pressure: it turns out that 1 mg of H2 gas will occupy around 12 ml in volume at 20ºC, and at normal atmospheric pressure). 

 

So at 20ºC and normal atmospheric pressure, 31.3 mg of H2 gas will occupy 375 ml. 

 

So a reaction between 3 grams of citric acid and 379 mg will produce 375 ml of H2 gas.

 

But because the magnesium rod I use also directly reacts with the water, you get a little more H2 gas from your 3 grams of citric acid in water, approaching around 500 ml of H2 gas (depending on how long you leave your magnesium rod in the bottle, slowly reacting with the water — if you leave it for several days in the bottle, you get a lot more H2 gas, due purely to the reaction of the magnesium rod with the water, after the citric acid has been used up).

 

 

 

Note: I performed this same calculation in an earlier post in the thread, but I made a mistake in that post (I incorrectly said in the earlier post that: 3 grams of citric acid will react with 127 mg of magnesium, but it should be: 3 grams of citric acid will react with 379 mg of magnesium).

 

 

Edited by Hip, 24 July 2017 - 09:17 PM.

[aconita]

Yes, experience tells that for about 0.5 liter of water you need about 1-2g malic acid and about 500mg mag (probably slightly less), easy to verify, just start from those numbers and check at the bottom of the bottle: if there is some powder left try with a bit less next time until you'll get none, if there is none left try increasing a bit until you'll get some.

 

This will be as accurate as you can get since all factors are included, calculations are beautiful but usually there is always something difficult to account for and practice might yields slightly different results, I underline slightly.

 

Thanks Hip for showing all the calculations behind this, always good to know.

[normalizing]

its confusing to me how to make hydrogen water even though i read it before and planned on it, but it was confusing still. i just wanna know if hydrogen water will ever be available commercially sold in stores or online?

or, a much better idea, maybe i can buy it from some of you guys, the ones who can actually make it!

Edited by hazy, 25 July 2017 - 01:42 AM.

[Senshido]

Thanks to Hip and aconita, that was very useful!

One question about the shaking at the end: When i see that the waterlevel in the bottle dropped because of the hydrogen gas that was produced, should the waterlevel rise again after i shaked the bottle because more hydrogen is dissolveld in the water?! Is this an indication that i shaked enough?!

 

@hazy

i thought there is no company that sells hydrogen water because of the fact that hydrogen can easily escape through conventional bottle materials such as plastic or glass. But surprisingly i found two companies that sell hydrogen water already! Look here:

http://www.perriconehydrogenwater.com/

 

or here:

https://h-factor.com/

 

It seems they found a way to hold the hydrogen levels effectively over a longer time. HFACTOR claims that they use a special hydro-pack, which acts as an effective barrier to keep the hydrogen inside. A closer look shows that they use a flexible aluminum pouch. The other company uses a can. I think aluminium too?! Maybe this is a way to store our hydrogen water longer too, so we can produce more in advance?! HFACTOR seems to hold 2.0ppm of hydrogen in the pouches. But $3 for around 300 ml of water is a high price in relation to the costs of the DIY methods presented here.

Edited by Senshido, 25 July 2017 - 05:17 PM.

[Hip]

One question about the shaking at the end: When i see that the waterlevel in the bottle dropped because of the hydrogen gas that was produced, should the waterlevel rise again after i shaked the bottle because more hydrogen is dissolveld in the water?! Is this an indication that i shaked enough?!

 

There will not be much noticeable change in the water level, because only a relatively small amount of H2 dissolves into the water. In the small airspace at the top of the bottle (or more accurately the H2-space), when the internal pressure of the bottle is around 6 or 7 atmospheres, you will have around 500 ml of H2 compressed into that small space (you can prove this by carefully opening a bottle of hydrogen rich water underwater, and collecting the H2 gas that escapes in an upturned glass container, and you will collect around 500 ml).

 

But the total amount of H2 gas that gets dissolved in the 1.5 liters of water in the bottle (assuming you are using 1 .5 liter bottle) at these pressures of 6 to 7 atmosphere is around 60 ml (60 ml at normal atmospheric pressure, that is). So as a percentage, only 100 x 60 / 500 = 12% of the H2 gas at the top of the bottle gets dissolved into the water when you shake the bottle, so you probably won't notice much change in water level, maybe just a few millimeters.

 

If you want to ensure that you are creating a strong 5 ppm hydrogen rich water, you can use my H2 concentration measuring method described in this post, and updated a bit in this post. Basically the method uses a large hypodermic syringe to measure the ppm concentration of H2 in the water. I always constantly get a concentration of around 5 ppm when using this "test tube within a bottle" method of preparing hydrogen rich water — provided that is that you shake the bottle for 30 seconds at the end of the "brew". If you do not shake, then I have found you only get a concentration of around 1 ppm. So shaking just for 30 seconds makes a lot of difference.

Edited by Hip, 25 July 2017 - 05:46 PM.

[Hip]

Maybe this is a way to store our hydrogen water longer too, so we can produce more in advance?!

 

If you read the study associated with the Aquela hydrogen rich water making product (which is the product and study that I based my "test tube in a bottle" method on), they say that provided the bottle is not opened and the pressure is not released, there is no loss of H2 concentration after 7 days. In fact, the H2 concentration actually increased a bit after 7 days, due to the fact that during this time, more of the hydrogen gas slowly dissolved in the water. See figure 4b of the study. 

 

So I would think that you could keep a bottle for a least a month without losing much H2 concentration, perhaps even several months.  

[Senshido]

Thanks again, very helpful! Do you switch your bottle from time to time? I can imagine if a bottle is permanently stretched and relaxed, streched and relaxed and so on, that the material becomes weakened over time and the possibility für a burst is higher.

 

For all of you which have concerns about using PET bottles because of possible chemical releases i found a video where someone testet two nalgene bottles (made of tritan which seems safer) and the bottles cracked between 195 and 240 psi:

https://www.youtube....h?v=eNTGCgnBoSo

Edited by Senshido, 25 July 2017 - 11:09 PM.

[Hip]

Thanks again, very helpful! Do you switch your bottle from time to time? I can imagine if a bottle is permanently stretched and relaxed, streched and relaxed and so on, that the material becomes weakened over time and the possibility für a burst is higher.

 

I like drinking sparkling mineral water anyway, so tend to have a lot of empty plastic mineral water bottles available, so I often use a fresh bottle every time I make hydrogen rich water. 

 

But I have found if you don't create internal pressures higher than around 6 ot 7 atmospheres, then you don't get much stretching of the bottle. However, if you do create higher pressures by using more citric acid and magnesium, then this does seem to permanently stretch the plastic bottle more. 

Edited by Hip, 25 July 2017 - 11:14 PM.

[normalizing]

hip, what are you experiencing so far from drinking hydrogen water regularly??

[Hip]

hip, what are you experiencing so far from drinking hydrogen water regularly??

 

I am not drinking it every day, just when needed. I have ME/CFS, and one of its unpleasant symptoms is emotional sensitivity, which is where you brain cannot handle any form of social discord or stress. I think this may be due to malfunctioning, infection or inflammation in one the areas of the brain that processes emotions (such as the hypothalamus, which is known to be out of kilter ME/CFS). I find that hydrogen rich water is quite good at combating this, so when this symptom arises, I make myself a bottle.

 

I also notice that hydrogen rich water boosts mood and libido a bit, which is nice. It feels like it has a mild dopaminergic effect in the brain. Apart from that, I have not noticed much else. But then I am not really a good person to do testing, because my health is adversely affected by ME/CFS anyway. It would be better to have a more healthy person comment on the effects of hydrogen rich water, because I think most people are going to be interested in the general benefits. 

Edited by Hip, 26 July 2017 - 05:44 PM.

[Senshido]

Is it important that the test tube ist filled with water to the top?! I have a 55 ml test tube and when the tube is filled to the top or nearly to the top i get some splashes from the acid water through the little hole in the stopper at the beginning, when the reaction goes like crazy. Not much, but a little bit goes in the bottle water, which gives a slightly sour taste. When the test tube is only filled with 10 or 20 ml, the bubbling is not so strong that it reaches up to the stopper. Therefore the question, if it is important in any way, that the tube is filled to the top?!