623 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

Scratch that last post. I found your post in the Supplements forum. I'm spot checking some of the claims about H2 and some of the studies cited about antioxidants and honestly, many of them are small, preliminary and uncontrolled experiments on humans. Like this one.  I think what I meant was human studies that have a fairly good sample size and are controlled and blinded. I'm also interested in mechanism of action type studies but plenty of these have been done. One of the studies cited discussing antioxidants is somewhat flawed. For one thing it generalizes and makes too many broad assumptions about everyone's diet, makes no explanation as to why a pill is any different from a food in terms of the antioxidant itself, and Rhonda Patrick has a better explanation here on how (specifically E) these studies are missing some vital information regarding tocopherols.  Though I get that antioxidants aren't exactly helpful in excess, or within hours of exercise, or even in such frequent use without breaks. I can't imagine that even H2 water is good around exercise periods.

 

Also, there are a lot of things that bring down inflammatory cytokines such as curcumin, DHA/EPA, ginger and many other nutrients. I think my main point here is that there is not enough pursuit of quality, robust human study on H2 water currently to warrant any time consuming expense on the DYI methods I mentioned earlier from post #5.  I'm glad there's 40 more studies registered but I don't gather that scientists are rushing and leaping in hot pursuit of discovering H2 Water benefits. If you want to link to one of the tablet manufacturers you think is best that would be cool, since that could save at least the time part of the problem.

 

My goal is to reduce inflammation, reduce lower back pain when standing for long periods and to hopefully alleviate the essential tremor condition I have. My past experiments with H2 water were disappointing on all counts.

Edited by Nate-2004, 22 January 2018 - 03:17 PM.

[H2enthusiast]

 

 

I don't care what brands are sold to be honest. Anyone who asked can vouch I sent over numerous brands and said they're all the same, with options for different tablets in other brands that get less H2 but have better organoleptics- except Europe, there are only a couple being sold their. There are also good inhalers, good machines etc which I have recommended to people in private messages. Varying distributors and brands. No one has every method locked down and many carry the same machines and tablets. Some do not produce therapeutic dosages but charge people upwards of $8000. I am going to clarify to you a few things you clearly do not seem to understand.

 

1. Dosage depends on concentration AND volume. H2 dosage would be in 'mg' or mass, like any other product. Inhalation studies that do not list this are inherently flawed, as they do not account for the mass of H2 depending on altitude, the % base can be skewed substantially. Let's simplify the math, and say that 1mg produces 10ml of H2 gas at sea level(close enough). 1mg dissolved in water would be 1mg/L(ppm) in 1L, or 2ppm in 500ml etc. To get it in inhalation you need to consume 1L of H2. 8L per minute at 2% is 160ml of H2 per minute, or 16mg of H2- meaning inhaling for 1minute is 1/6 the dosage of drinking 500ml at 2ppm for bio-availability. The science is trending to higher dosages, also. 

 

Now consider that 100mg of Mag will produce ~90ml of H2 at sea level, to get the same dosage effectiveness in inhalation you need to react about 1g of Mag over 6 minutes or dissolve 12mg worth of Mag to make the water(with proper pressure and home systems you can get a good 40-50% efficiency in dissolution kinetics, so you would actually need 25mg+) That means you are using far less Mag, far less acid and probably getting a better therapeutic dose. 

 

SO, brings me to: want to make it yourself? Get some fine Mg powder, some citric acid and figure out your ratios. Figure out the chemistry and how to control pH. It's safer and more effective. Dumping a ton of dangerous goods in a bottle and reacting it to make a dangerous gas in an exothermic reaction without having done any of the math is moronic. Make sure it is 99.98% or better to ensure no heavy metal contamination. Can't do that? Maybe you shouldn't be handling dangerous goods.

 

Oh, ok so Amazon is selling it so it is 'all good bro?'. Not really. Basically how it works is there is 1, yes 1, source of Mg in the USA. There are a couple facilities to process it. Anyone buying from them needs a licensed end use, and if they are allowed to resell they are supposed to be reselling within that end use. It isn't monitored. Fireworks suppliers don't ask questions, etc. Some people start to accidentally kill themselves or blow up homes? That may change. Already the shipping/dangerous goods laws have in the last several years. Figure you'll just throw a bunch of Mg rods in without proper purity and let it create H2? May be at risk for magnesium poisoning, exposing yourself to several factors more of heavy metals etc.

 

I criticize stupidity that can have dangerous ramifications. There are smart and safe ways to DIY, and there are negligent and stupid ways that could cause harm and deliver insufficient dosage to have a benefit, regardless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You really don't care what brands are being sold, to be honest? Aren't you advising people on this site which brand of mag tablets to use? Didn't you say that you have patent applications on this stuff, as you posted when you introduced yourself a week ago--

 

Predominantly molecular hydrogen. Working with public(primarily) teams in assessing areas to study and appropriate dosing and duration protocols based on the cumulative knowledge of the 1000+ existing publications(mostly in animals or in vitro, but roughly 40-50 published human clinical studies), evidence of various pathways, transcription factors etc and co authoring papers on conclusions erroneously attributed to the wrong mechanism. I am also collaborating on papers being written regarding glycation crosslinking and potential novel preventative measures. I can't go into much detail on any of the above until completed...That being said my primary focus in the last two years has been product and device development(on the two above areas), with 13 pending patents as the primary inventor filed in this time

 

 

 

And you said here: "I can recommend brands but would prefer to do it privately."

 

Patent applications imply that you have either a present or hoped for commercial interest, and making recommendations implies that it is most likely a present interest.

 

As for your math on dosage, I am using 100% H2 for inhalation, not 2%, so you are a bit off. I hope you do better on your patents.

 

As for your statement, "Make sure [the magnesium] is 99.98% or better to ensure no heavy metal contamination," it is, but it doesn't matter as I am only using the H2, and not drinking the liquid. Nor am I using rods as you suggested, as the surface area to volume is too small. Magnesium shot is much better.

 

Then you warn about people killing themselves and blowing up homes. Obviously you don't want to use open flames around hydrogen or other flammable gasses. Everyone carries around combustible gases in their intestines without harm ... until someone tries lighting a fart. So it's possible to be injured as people will find a way--even the Hindenburg had a smoking compartment, for instance. But no need for the undocumented hysteria.

 

Ok, as mentioned I have not recommended a single brand to any one person via private messages. I have sent people in North America a list of about 10 options letting them know where they are geographically- and then different recommendations for inhalers or machines. If I was here for financially motivated reasons it would be an odd use of my time, writing numerous posts to recommend product to a handful of people- and then giving them numerous options. I saw this thread on google and read a few pages and decided to write a post, as a lot of the information here is incorrect or limited. Citing a few studies when there are over 1000 published and drawing all conclusions from them is akin to the blind men and the elephant.

 

Yes, if I was trying to obfuscate that I wouldn't have posted it a couple of days ago. My patent applications primarily involve the dissolution kinetics and how to maximize reactive ingredients to retain 100%(or close) to the H2 in water, turning H2/water and other molecules into gels, foams, and viscous lotions to dramatically extend the retention and increase solubility(for topical use or storage to be diluted), and synergy with other molecules for more profound therapeutic benefit. Did you expect that to be a 'gotcha' moment? You see above I also gave recommendations about how to make DIY safer for users and get more H2 with less contamination and wasted $$ in raws? 

Yes, but since you are eyeballing your reaction and not measuring gas consumed, you have NO IDEA WHAT DOSAGE YOU ARE CREATING OR CONSUMING. Again, the CONCENTRATION is IRRELEVANT without knowing the VOLUME of FLOW. 2% per minute at 8L is more than 100ml of 100% H2 in one hit, for instance. You list yourself as a former senior scientist. What was your background? Certainly doesn't show.

 

Undocumented, yes. Unrealistic? No. I have been privately messaged to assist in recommendations with a couple of irresponsible individuals on DIY projects who caused damage(thankfully limited and no personal harm) and like I mentioned have performed numerous stress tests and have witnessed with my own eyes what can happen. If your Mg was powdered and not pellets, your acid finer and maybe in higher concentration and you used hot water the rate of gas created even in a 16oz soda bottle is too fast for the opening in the bottle. Filling to 1/3 Mag it will explode. First the plastic goes from too high of psi, then the H2 goes, and if you are lucky it stops there. If the Mg burns you could burn a hole through your floor, table or worse. It burns at thousands of degrees.

[H2enthusiast]

Yes, a lot of the current studies have been poorly designed, have critical flaws and erroneous conclusions. It is to be expected with new science. In my post I mentioned that H2 acts as a 'selective antioxidant' which the studies show, but I do not believe this to be the case. I can't go into it more until some new studies come out that I am privy to, but in vivo it is akin to walking through times square at midnight on NYE blindfolded and not bumping into anyone. Possible but so unlikely it isn't worth considering. H2 can actually upregulate cytokines as well, I can try to dig up the info, and only supports homeostatic function of our ROS/AO system. In vitro it will not show any up or down regulation on healthy tissue but does when the tissue is exposed to a toxin. This is what makes it profound and differentiates it from other products that can also provide down regulation of cytokines and have antioxidant capabilities. Also, anecdotally speaking I have seen people go into disease remission in various autoimmune diseases in relatively short time frames(1month or less) which coincides with the two studies on rheumatoid arthritis I cited in the other post. I have seen people stop taking methotrexate, for instance. There is a registered clinical trial with 150 patients I think for RA in Japan that hasn't started, I am trying to find the registration online. There are larger trials well underway, including this:

http://www.jns-journ...3469-X/fulltext

This:

 

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT03320018

 

and this:

https://www.gasworld...2010537.article

 

There are more smaller phase 1 and 2 trials under way, and I posted a couple more down lower in the comments that are newer phase II trials that have better designs than many of the early human studies(mild cognitive impairment, acute cerebral infarction) Science takes time but it is advancing as one would expect.

 

Interestingly, H2 has shown to have pretty dramatic effects in exercise performance. It is one of the most studied areas, and there are at least 2 more clinical trials- double blind placebo controlled crossover, that I know of where data is finished and making its way through peer review. 

 

I don't know about you, but I have never seen someone concocting their ginger teas or taking a vitamin E supplement that could stop heavy NSAIDs for say arthritis let alone go into disease remission and quit powerful prescription drugs in advanced cases. 

 

Curcumin could have part of its benefits attributed to H2, actually https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19034660

 

As could resveratrol:  https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26262957

 

I went back to post 5. That's Glen. I know who helped him and his friend Roger, they were really struggling and possibly exhibiting signs of magnesium poisoning through consuming something stupid like 5g a day of Mag through their rod method. As stated numerous times before I think the 'rod method' is very stupid as you cannot control the amount of Magnesium you are consuming, increasing heavy metal exposure by using so much Mg(at possibly lower purity) and without careful crafting may not be getting enough H2.

Scratch that last post. I found your post in the Supplements forum. I'm spot checking some of the claims about H2 and some of the studies cited about antioxidants and honestly, many of them are small, preliminary and uncontrolled experiments on humans. Like this one.  I think what I meant was human studies that have a fairly good sample size and are controlled and blinded. I'm also interested in mechanism of action type studies but plenty of these have been done. One of the studies cited discussing antioxidants is somewhat flawed. For one thing it generalizes and makes too many broad assumptions about everyone's diet, makes no explanation as to why a pill is any different from a food in terms of the antioxidant itself, and Rhonda Patrick has a better explanation here on how (specifically E) these studies are missing some vital information regarding tocopherols.  Though I get that antioxidants aren't exactly helpful in excess, or within hours of exercise, or even in such frequent use without breaks. I can't imagine that even H2 water is good around exercise periods.

 

Also, there are a lot of things that bring down inflammatory cytokines such as curcumin, DHA/EPA, ginger and many other nutrients. I think my main point here is that there is not enough pursuit of quality, robust human study on H2 water currently to warrant any time consuming expense on the DYI methods I mentioned earlier from post #5.  I'm glad there's 40 more studies registered but I don't gather that scientists are rushing and leaping in hot pursuit of discovering H2 Water benefits. If you want to link to one of the tablet manufacturers you think is best that would be cool, since that could save at least the time part of the problem.

 

My goal is to reduce inflammation, reduce lower back pain when standing for long periods and to hopefully alleviate the essential tremor condition I have. My past experiments with H2 water were disappointing on all counts.

 

[Turnbuckle]

 

Yes, but since you are eyeballing your reaction and not measuring gas consumed, you have NO IDEA WHAT DOSAGE YOU ARE CREATING OR CONSUMING. Again, the CONCENTRATION is IRRELEVANT without knowing the VOLUME of FLOW. 2% per minute at 8L is more than 100ml of 100% H2 in one hit, for instance. You list yourself as a former senior scientist. What was your background? Certainly doesn't show.

 

 

 

 

 

If you fill a balloon with 100% H2 and then breathe it for a period for x% of the time, that will be the rough equivalent of breathing x% partial pressure of H2 continuously. If you breathe it in this fashion for ten minutes, you will reach the half saturation point in the CNS gray matter for that partial pressure (4 times longer for white matter, according to Haldane). This is far greater than you would get by drinking HW, though the hypothesis that H2-stimulated ghrelin is important now seems unlikely. Beyond that, the H2 absorbed gastrically is likely very low and highly variable.

[H2enthusiast]

How is 'fill a balloon' a scientific explanation for volume?

 

 

Yes, but since you are eyeballing your reaction and not measuring gas consumed, you have NO IDEA WHAT DOSAGE YOU ARE CREATING OR CONSUMING. Again, the CONCENTRATION is IRRELEVANT without knowing the VOLUME of FLOW. 2% per minute at 8L is more than 100ml of 100% H2 in one hit, for instance. You list yourself as a former senior scientist. What was your background? Certainly doesn't show.

 

 

 

 

 

If you fill a balloon with 100% H2 and then breathe it for a period for x% of the time, that will be the rough equivalent of breathing x% partial pressure of H2 continuously. If you breathe it in this fashion for ten minutes, you will reach the half saturation point in the CNS gray matter for that partial pressure (4 times longer for white matter, according to Haldane). This is far greater than you would get by drinking HW, though the hypothesis that H2-stimulated ghrelin is important now seems unlikely. Beyond that, the H2 absorbed gastrically is likely very low and highly variable.

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

Good lord, H2enthusiast. I would really be interested to see your patent applications, as I expect they are a mess.

[Nate-2004]

@H2Enthusiast 

 

Is there a list somewhere that I missed on the companies that make good H2 water tabs that saturate the water more than 5ppm? Better yet, which one do you use?

[airplanepeanuts]

Good lord, H2enthusiast. I would really be interested to see your patent applications, as I expect they are a mess.

 

Hey Turnbuckle,

 

do you think the hydrogen water tablets are worthless? Should I cancel my order?

 

Thanks.

[cristi1234]

hello

I am new on forum , hope in short time posting links.

I have good news and bad news regarding hydrogen rich water.

with chinesse generator I can obtain 0.1 ppm at 20 grades water temperature, and 0.35 ppm with water at 5 grades Celsius.

with another generator new generation , electrolise , membrane dupont ,etc 1 ppm 

aquela protocol first 2.5 ppm , they also in youtube show 2.5 ppm with h2blue reagent., normal chamber themperature.

with very low themperature water 48 drops h2blue so 4.8 ppm.

 

 

[Grimbly]

Hey all, I'm new to the forum so I can't post links yet. I have read through the first 10 pages so far and plan to read through the rest soon. Just wanted to ask a couple things first and hopefully, they haven't been covered already.

 

With regards to these newer tablets like the ones offered by HydroTab and Trusii claiming to have 10-15ppm generated in 2min. from one tablet. Has anyone tried these and/or confirmed they work as claimed? I have seen some videos for both of the aforementioned companies showing their claims with the H2Blue reagent so they seem legit. I did read the comment from H2enthusiast regarding the method of operation for these with the nano-cloud delivery system but I'm not sure that I understand completely. My understanding currently is that these fully saturate the water with H2 and the remaining reactants then stay encased in these nanobubbles until enough H2 has dissipated from the water that they can react to create more so drinking it quickly allows one to avoid losing H2 and allows the reaction to finish in the gut or along the way to it. Is that about right? Am I missing anything?

So, with that, possibly, being the case it does make sense that these could achieve the high levels they claim I suppose. I do still have concerns for the excess reactants and/or byproducts being consumed by these tablets though. It seems to me that it would still be leaving behind Magnesium Malate or Magnesium Hydroxide as a byproduct from this, assuming Malic Acid is part of their composition like in the HydroTab. I'm wondering how many of these tablets one could use a day before running into problems similar to those experienced by streamlover in the earlier days. Lastly, with a reaction like this wouldn't this be throwing the body's Ph out of balance if used multiple times a day or is that negligible due to the acid being weaker?  

 

Now for more interesting stuff, sadly with no links since I can't post them yet. I found an article titled "Nanoparticles of Silicon and Water Makes Hydrogen Gas in an Instant" at IEEE Spectrum which linked to an article titled "Just Add Water: How Scientists Are Using Silicon to Produce Hydrogen on Demand" at University at Buffalo which linked to a research paper titled "On-Demand Hydrogen Generation using Nanosilicon: Splitting Water without Light, Heat, or Electricity" at ACS Publications: Nano Letters

 

I haven't read through all of it yet as I just recently found it and am still having coffee but a cursory overview of it was very exciting. The just of it from what I gathered is that you can take 10nm spherical nano-particles of Silicon, add water, and get crazy amounts of Hydrogen along with Silicic Acid as the byproduct. It also mentioned that 100nm non-spherical particles worked, although 150 times less efficiently, and further mentions that "bulk silicon" has the same reaction, though its 1,000 times less efficient compared to the 10nm silicon. All of the research seems to be aimed at Hydrogen for a fuel source but I couldn't help thinking of how useful this might be for what everyone here is trying to do and thought I should share this. Granted since this deals with nanoparticles its likely not very cost effective but it still seemed like it should be shared and colloidal silver deals with nanoscale particles, I think, and it's very cheap to make so maybe it's not too pricey after you dig into how it's done

 

Today I noticed the Trusii machines when I ran across the tablets and was wondering if anyone had opinions on their method, construction quality, etc. Their Elite model claims 5-9ppm water and has a method for inhaling it as well. I'm thinking, after I check into it more, that I should have my Dad try to apply for their in-house case study to see if he qualifies for a free Elite machine. Personally, I thought it was really impressive they even have such a program to offer, but also I really liked the idea of him having both the inhaling and water options in one machine and most importantly for free potentially since I doubt he would spend as much as they are wanting on such a thing. 

 

Lastly, does anyone have any alternatives to the two tablet providers I mentioned that might be cheaper and just as effective? Mostly, I'm looking into this for my Dad and would like it to be as cheap and easy for him to deal with as possible so the tablets seem like the way to go as long as they don't pose some kind of risk from consuming too much reactant materials or byproducts. The Trusii machine would be even better if it does what it claims safely, but only if he can get it for free, which he may have a chance at I guess.

[cristi1234]

i not believe the tablets can producing more than 1 ppm each 1 tablet .

You can verify on amazon , different brands tablets , comments , about h2blue test result.

The real values are the small value obtein .

So if the brand say 

Out tablets producing 7 ppm, and you test with h2blue the result will be maxim 1 ppm.

For exemple i tested H500 is the same with tablets microhidryne , producing by coral club , the first brand .

i view more video with Patrick Flanagan , the boss of brand coral club.

1 tablet  h500 , in 150 ml water , producing ORP -500 , but i not view h2 disolvated .

1 drops and remain blue.

i put the water in an small botle 150 ml and 3 hour refrigerate .

after congelation  new value obtein with h2blue was 0.6 ppm.

only 150 ml water.

 

And most important.

Patrick Flanagan use 6 tablets in 0.5 liter water . Why?

[Grimbly]

cristi1234 I wish I could add links to make this easier but check out these 2 videos if you find the time and care to do so. They show the two tablets I'm speaking of being tested using the H2Blue reagent and seem to prove that a higher ppm can be achieved. It does seem that the higher levels only last for a few minutes before dissipating though. So, it's not the most useful solution if you wanted to keep it around to drink occasionally and not have to make more.

 

The videos are titled "HydroTab H2 PPM Demo" by Hydrotab and "15.5 ppm from 1 H2Now Tablet!!!!" by TekniqX. They are both on YouTube and should be fairly easy to locate with the information provided.

 

One thing I did find a bit concerning about the second video showing the Trusii tablets is that their water turned brown more and more after dissipating the solution. I asked on the video what that might be from but that was very recent so I haven't received a response yet. Maybe from crappy tap water contaminants?

 

I did see a review on Amazon for the HydroTab's claiming he had tested the water after with the H2Blue and only got 1ppm which supports your claims for the same thing and for similar reviews. But, as I stated above the high ppm only seems to stick around for a couple minutes and we have no way of knowing how these reviewers performed their tests, how long they took to do the test, or how long they waited before deciding to even do a test on the water. It's just random word of mouth claims without them posting anything definitive, or at least claiming more detail on how they obtained the results specifically. Another consideration for Amazon specifically is that those claims could be from vendors selling competitive products that are trying to push buyers away from the competition's offerings. That seems a bit less likely but I can say from experience that Amazon sellers can be ruthless towards competition so I wouldn't put it past them to try such lowbrow tactics.

 

Another option that comes to mind given my previously mentioned current understanding of how these nano-cloud tablets are working is that it may be safer to say that these are more like a timed release method for fairly high ppm across a given time span rather than saying they give off the super high ppm they're claiming. That is to say, it seems that if the water can only hold 1.6ppm at 1 atmosphere, then holds the "cloud" till enough H2 escapes that the ppm drops below that, then releases more from the "cloud" it would make sense how these could read 15ppm with the H2Blue drops. The idea here would be that what's going on is the reagent consumes the initial saturation of H2 allowing more to escape the "cloud" and be formed in the water, then more reagent consumes that, etc. This would then repeat till there is no more "cloud" to refill the H2 in the water and you end up with 15ppm or whatever from your reagent readings. So, if that's the case, that really makes these more like a timed release of 1.6ppm over a given span. But, does that then mean they are not 15ppm or would it still be valid to consider them 15ppm tablets?

 

At any rate, if that is how they work it still seems handy to get around 10x 1.6ppm "doses" in one quick glass of water vs. drinking 10 glasses of water. Surely any health benefit you're after from drinking such water would greatly benefit from so many 1.6ppm "doses" at once as well since there seems to be no evidence for an upper limit on H2 consumption or any related toxicity concerns. Although it does seem there's some wonky math at play to claim 15ppm on such a timed release system but I haven't done any calculations of that sort to be sure and my handle on ppm math is currently very limited, so I guess it could be a fair approximation or maybe even accurate to claim such.

 

My main concern is still the leftover reactants and/or byproducts from the reaction that remains mixed into the water. I'd really like to find some clarification as to how much and what exactly remains for some of these tablets. I like the idea of consuming loads of H2 but not so much for consuming loads of the Magnesium, its byproducts, or any other random stuff

 

As I said before though, the main idea is to find something easy and cheap for my Dad, in that order of importance, so the tablets seem to fit the bill on the easy part well enough and I guess they're cheap-ish. I smoke cigarettes so $2 a day for tablets or something like that is about what I burn through "pun" on smokes anyway so I don't really see that as being terribly expensive like some might.

 

I'm still not sure that I understand correctly how these tablets are working though, so for now, this is just my running theory I suppose. I would very much like to get more clarification on them from H2enthusiast if he happens to drop by again as he seemed to have a very good understanding of how they work. 

 

[Hip]

Yes @Grimbly, your theory that the high ppm shown in the videos are based on reagents still being present in the water at the time of testing hits the nail on the head. These high ppms are spurious results and a scam. 

 

You can see in the HydroTab H2 PPM Demo video that the water being tested with the H2Blue drops is still a cloudy white color, which means that the reagents are still in the water, and likely still producing more H2 gas. This is why you get a falsely high reading of 15.5 ppm when using the H2Blue drops. The laws of physics dictate that you cannot get more than 1.57 ppm of H2 at standard atmospheric pressure and normal room temperature. This figure is based on Henry's law.

 

So the claims that the HydroTab Molecular Hydrogen product produces 15.5 ppm (or 10 ppm on the hydrotab.com website) is a misleading con.

 

Though you are right that it's possible the continued production of H2 gas by these reagents in the water for a few minutes may supply more H2 to the stomach (provided you drink the water quickly while it is still cloudy), which potentially might mimic the effects of a higher ppm hydrogen rich water. But we don't know this for sure. 

 

I just find it dubious that a the HydroTab Molecular Hydrogen manufacturer does not know enough about physics to understand that more than 1.57 ppm at standard atmospheric pressure is a physical impossibility.

 

 

[cristi1234]

If you want to start study hydrogen water , i recomand for the moment the folowing information.

The target is obtein an hydrogen rich water with small posible contaminants , with ph 9,5 , with ORP negative -400 , -500 ,h2 disolvated the best value.

Testes in hospitals , relevant was with aquela hydrogen rich water 7 ppm concentration h2 disolvated.

I can t obtein with aquela more than 4.8 ppm , in 24 hours with differnt testes , refrigerate , agitation , etc..

Now , my friend that using aquela water is happy with 3 ppm aquela water , but not need 24 hours , only 10 minutes and can obtein 3 ppm.

 

If you can obtein an water with 9,5 ph , -450 ORP , min 1 ppm h2 disolvated , you can use this water for another aplication.

you can modify ORP for apricots from +300 to -200 , so ORP transfer positive into negative is very good for healty.

 

Regarding videoclip presentation.

inicial , in videoclip , the glass is full with water , and the guy put the tablet in water.

i can suspect that in inicial water , anterior starting video , the guy put 40 tablets , and the visitor view onnly the last tablet .

 

If you want to start , the first step technicaly is buying H2blue.

You have aprox 250 drops in the small botle h2blue.

 

The second step to clarify problems with tables

Ask at contanct Trusii and another brand , how cai demonstrated 9 ppm or more .

 

i not view tablets trusii on Amazon for selling.

Ask Trusii.

 

In another article , an representant trusii say, we have an video producing by an client how obtein 15 ppm.

Is not correct.

Trusii must posting real video , with glass without water ,put the water in the glass and the tablet , final h2 blue messurement.

[H2enthusiast]

Ok, I am going to try to answer this as quickly and succinctly as possible.

1. PPM is an awful measurement. It isn't a dose, it's a concentration. That being said the marketing for years starting out of Japan has all focused on PPM, so many companies have adopted PPM measurements the best way they can. Companies should be marketing the dosage delivered. For instance the 80mg open cup tablets peak at ~70ml of H2 gas retained which is ~5.8mg of H2. Titration's have best results around 10ppm in 500ml which is 5mg. Many tablet marketers test in different volumes, yielding dramatically different 'PPM' while the dosages are similar.

I've personally measured both trusii and Hydrotab, they both measure very high int he cloud. That being said, if the tester is incompetent then it will measure 1.6ppm at best. I read the amazon review just now and noted the user indicated they stirred for 1 minute before testing- basically knocking out the entire cloud of H2, and potentially some dissolved gas. They also didn't specify how they tested, or temperature of water etc. This titration is far from idiot proof.

2. The nano bubbles aren't saturated/dissolved. As Hip said, and has been pointed out many times, that is impossible without external pressurization. That being said the quasi dissolved H2 is present in solution, at very high levels. Gas evolved tests done by the makers of H2 blue have confirmed in higher levels than the best attempts to titrate. If it is stable enough for a quick and careful hand to titrate, it is certainly stable enough to get into your body.

The maker's of H2Blue have a write up on it, here:

https://www.h2scienc...open-glass.html

Hip brought up that the quasi dissolved gas may be similar to saturated gas but we do not know, and that is correct. That being said there are no human comparative studies for ANY dosage or administration. None comparing saline to water, inhalation to water, different dosages, time frames etc. There are sparse studies using different methods of administration for the same diseases or issues, but they are few and far between, and very few comparing different dosages of water(for instance, in metabolic syndrome a lower dosage over a shorter period yielded no results in some factors) There are 61 published human clinical trials to date on hydrogen therapy through all doses and administration methods. The open cup tablets do have 1 study published:

https://journals.lww...ation.2411.aspx

Another is going through peer review right now that I have read, also on sports performance, and there are 3 registered clinical trials on this method well under way that I am aware of:

 

http://www.ctri.nic....id=','23330det'

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT03625362

http://apps.who.int/...lID=NCT03320018

The 'nano cloud H2 water' is at worst delivering 1.6~ mg/L, and likely has added benefits. That would need a head to head study, and then another head to head study measuring, for instance, 70ml of H2 in 500ml dissolved vs 70ml of H2 between the cloud and dissolved. This is something that will happen int he research in time. Considering most studies are at or below 1.6mg/L, and only a handful above, if the evidence in these registered trials shows benefit there is as much evidence for the H2 cloud as there is for high saturation.

Lastly someone mentioned the water went brown, that has nothing to do with source water but a result of the titration itself:
 

Why does the sample water sometimes turn "brown" when doing a test?

When using H2Blue to measure water containing high levels of dissolved H2 (approx 4ppm or more), some "browning" of the 6mL sample may occur as drops are added. This is normal and is a result of the accumulation of the platinum catalyst, which does not get consumed during the reaction between H2Blue and the dissolved H2 gas. Under these conditions, watch for the sample to remain slightly blue in order to determine the titration endpoint.

​

[cristi1234]

The fenomen with hydrogen rich water is not simple.

they are many people that using only alcaline water with ph 9.5 , with consideration alcaline water is very good for health.

Chinesse generators on alliexpress producing 0.1 or 0.2 ppm , and buyers are very happy with negative ORP -200.

I believe that 3 factors can generate an good water , ph, orp and h2 disolvated.

 

But we not have enough study and experiments for 1000 or 2000 persons , and for long time testing day after day 2 liters hydrogen rich water.

 

For exemple niacin or vitamin b3 , can producing imediatly flushing efect , and many other visible simptoms , dosage 500 mg, DZR recomandet is only 20 mg per day.

 

[Grimbly]

Thanks Hip for confirming I wasn't totally off base so far and thank you H2enthusiast for your very detailed elaboration on how these tablets work. I haven't yet had time to dig through all the links you added too, but I plan to later today. I did read the H2Blue page you linked and Hip was right I really did seem to hit it spot on with these tablets and how they release the H2 over time Additionally after reading that entire page I can't help but wonder if the Amazon reviewer was even using their Ethanol based version or the new Eco version which they claim isn't as good for testing these types of tablets. Mostly I say this because they seem to not be able to ship the ethanol version as easily in the US, but I suppose the reviewer may not have been in the US too. Also thanks for pointing out the brown water thing. I hadn't even considered that it could be the H2Blue causing that.

 

If we wanted to see if these tablets help more than smaller more stable doses of 1.6-3.0ppm with no cloud activity it might be possible that streamlover or another long time user of such water could perceive the difference if they were to try the tablets for a change. I'm guessing to really tell properly we would need someone to try a regular brew like his for a while then get blood or plasma analysis done maybe and then repeat that with these tablets. Though I'm really not sure how it can be tested in the body offhand to determine saturation levels. Maybe urine?

 

All this got me thinking about hydrogen earlier and it occurred to me that we are, typically, around 70% water which means 2/3 of that is Hydrogen. Which got me thinking about the Mitochondria and a video from YouTube "The Biophysics of Fluoride by Neurosurgeon Dr. Jack Kruse" posted by Brenda Staudenmaier. In it, Jack goes into some detail about how the Mitochondria creates its own Deuterium Depleted water, how deuterium is bad for us, and how fluoride makes it. Deuterium(2H) is an isotope of Hydrogen which I didn't realize. Referencing this page "Oxidation-Reduction Potential (ORP) : A More Complete Explanation" from Molecular Hydrogen Institute shows a chart that clearly points this out as well with fluorine(F2) having +2.87 EV and Magnesium almost at the bottom with -2.37 EV. It seems to indicate this is why magnesium H2 water has a -ORP value too. In another video of Jack's I believe he mentioned that non-native EMF is harmful because it dehydrates the body on a cellular level, which I'm guessing means it depletes the deuterium depleted water from you. He also likes to fixate on the importance of redox potentials in the body, which is how I came to be here in the first place since that led me to hydrogen through -ORP research efforts. Lol, which reminds me that maybe Negative Ion generators for bedrooms and such are good for a similar reason (-Redox Potential for the body, -ORP for the water, why not -Ions for the air to complete the cycle?). I have a nice one I found and would recommend if anyone cares to know about it later. 

 

So, with all that in mind I have some random questions

 

Are we sure any or all of these methods are creating the correct Isotopes? Is that even a concern with H2? I'm not familiar enough with chemistry currently to know for sure if any of these methods could be making deuterium at all let alone whether that could then be binding to form H2 and still be deuterium.

 

Is it possible that the H2 being consumed, among its many other activities, could be helping to resolve cellular dehydration by providing more H for the body to make water with? Is it possible with these tablets that the quasi-dissolved portion, if consumed in that state, could be putting off any monoatomic H and not strictly H2?

 

Is it possible that many of these benefits could be from countering the loss of hydrogen to various processes like nerfing free radicals or fighting against cellular dehydration while never getting enough H back into the system? Most Americans have Candida overgrowth messing with the bacteria in the gut now which is where most of our H should be coming from. So maybe this is helping resolve that deficit. Also, since we are composed of so much water and thus Hydrogen it seems likely that we could use extra whenever we could get it rather than simply relying on the gut in such a toxin environment as modern society has become. 

 

Has anyone tried checking their redox potentials before and after extended use of H2 water? 

 

Is there any chance the DIY crowd would be able to make tablets anywhere near as good as these? I ask cause I was thinking it would be nice to have a mobile/casual method to generate hydrogen like the tablets while hiking and camping for months on end. I don't think most of these DIY methods would work for that environment/scenario but the tablets likely would. Breaking out beakers and test tubes for a hike doesn't seem as likely to happen often enough though

 

Ok, that's enough speculation for now.

 

Also, cristi1234 I too have seen various references and videos about "revitalizing" fruits and veggies with -ORP water. It can be lower than you stated I've seen -900. If you desire and can achieve that it's even more effective I would think. You don't have to use hydrogen to get -ORP if that's strictly what you're after. You can also use Vitamin C in the form of ascorbic acid which is cheap if you don't plan to drink the water and probably more safely in the form of something food based like Terrasoul Acerola Powder (Freeze-Dried) if you do plan to drink the water after. The reason being that Vitamin C as Ascorbic Acid that doesn't come from food is grown in a lab from corn syrup and usually involves nail polish remover at some stage in the process to make it, but moreover it doesn't get processed the same as the natural stuff and thus gets mostly flushed out of your system thereby giving very little value while overworking the body for no reason. The natural stuff gets much higher absorption and retention over longer periods while overworking little or nothing. Just put the VitaminC in the water and stir till it dissolves then test the ORP. This page "ORP Meters, Principles And Misconceptions" from Molecular Hydrogen Institute has a more detailed explanation of how it works. Another thing to note on that point is that most fruits and veggies freshly picked and immediately tested should already have a -ORP in the range that the "revitalized" ones achieve. That to me just indicates its healthier to eat fruits and veggies straight off the plant

 

There's a nice article on healthesolutions titled "The Truth About Vitamins in Nutritional Supplements" if you care to read more on Vitamin C and any others it covers. Although according to that article you need food-based Vitamin C to get a -ORP, and claims that lab-made Ascorbic Acid will only have a +ORP value, whereas Molecular Hydrogen Institute makes no distinction between food-based or lab-made and basically just treats the whole subject as though there's only the one version. I suppose some testing will be needed to find out what would work then. 

 

Lol also, earlier today while watching some random Top 10 video on YouTube they mentioned something called The Wow! Signal which was apparently a signal emitted from space that was basically the same tone as Hydrogen emits. It's on Wikipedia if you care to check it out. Just thought that was a random synchronicity to run across while diving into Hydrogen as much as I have been

Edited by Grimbly, 03 October 2018 - 10:59 PM.

[H2enthusiast]

Hello, for a few points,

-the tablets don't create either deuterium enriched or depleted, it will be within standard ranges

-H2 will not contribute to cellular hydration. Cellular hydration is controlled by osmotic gradient across the aquaporin.

 

-While H2 has shown to selectively reduce hydroxyl radicals in vitro, H2 does not directly scavenge free radicals in vivo where the competition is much higher. H2 works via modulating gene expression. It activtes the Nrf2 pathway promoting homeostatic redox, up regulating glutathione, catalase and superoxide dismutase in damaged cells(and showing no alteration in healthy cells)

We would definitely need more than 1 DIY'r to experiment. Many researchers(and also myself) believe that dosage protocols, both amount and time, may need to be adjusted with H2 over the long term. I.e. higher dose for a few months, then lower, morning administration then evening... to continue affecting a result.

As for DIY tablets, easier said than done. To make the cloud relies on tightly controlled particle shapes and sizes of all ingredients, as well as compression force for time release. The reaction and dissolution kinetics need to be dialed in to create that cloud. It isn't something that can be achieved on household equipment.

[Phoebus]

 

You can see in the HydroTab H2 PPM Demo video that the water being tested with the H2Blue drops is still a cloudy white color, which means that the reagents are still in the water, and likely still producing more H2 gas. This is why you get a falsely high reading of 15.5 ppm when using the H2Blue drops. The laws of physics dictate that you cannot get more than 1.57 ppm of H2 at standard atmospheric pressure and normal room temperature. This figure is based on Henry's law.

 

 

 

 

So does 1.5 ppm still have some therapeutic value for consumption? 

[Grimbly]

Thanks H2enthusiast for another quick and informative response. I had a feeling the tablets wouldn't be a DIY option but it never hurts to ask I suppose. I'm still looking around for a practical solution that could be used while camping/hiking. Basically, it would need to be cheap, quick, small, mobile, and very easy to handle variable conditions and water temps. I was planning to have a method for distilling water while I was out there so the water would at least be clean. It's essentially the same set of requirements for everyone else trying it at home but with a couple of extras, namely mobility, and space efficiency. The Mg rod and acid method are space efficient and fairly mobile I suppose but I don't like the idea of it being random values all the time for the reaction and I really don't like the idea of consuming copious unknown amounts of reaction byproducts (Mg, Malate, Etc.). Going a step further to have a more measured approach and separate the reaction makes sense but then it becomes less mobile and less quick/easy. The other consideration in this is durability. If I have a bunch of glass and specific plastic containers and such outdoors for long enough there's plenty that could go wrong to damage things and then I no longer have a way to do the reaction and likely no real way to remedy the situation either. I would just buy the tablets but the whole point of what I was going to be doing was about minimalism so having a mountain of supplies defeats that and those tablets do add up to quite a lot annually so I would still like to avoid that like the others are trying for. Buying them occasionally as needed is one thing but buying a stockpile is a good chunk of cash for 1 item in the backpack.

 

So, you're thinking with the dosage is that after the initial benefits some sort of homeostasis would be reached and they could taper off of it and eventually quit altogether? I can see how that would make sense. It seems like H being so tiny and mobile would make it easy to flush out of the body if it wasn't needed so how would one really know if it was doing something or just taking off somewhere else without doing anything? Additionally, reading through the list of studies on MHI and the wealth of topics they cover makes it seem very hard to know when one could declare it has finished its work. Perhaps so for whatever was being monitored but it seems to perform such a large array of tasks in the body that it would be very hard to say for sure that it's not doing anything anywhere anymore. I'm guessing certain repairs must be completed in the body before others can begin and since many problems people seek to fix are further down the chain and not the root cause how would one know if the cause is fixed or just the later symptoms we typically fixate on?  Reading through Wikipedia on H makes it seem even harder to pin down what and when it's doing anything since they claim it "has played a key role in the development of quantum mechanics". Which to me, at a glance, implies it can do some quantum level trickery in the body and that's a whole new level of difficulty to narrow in on and claim specifics about. At any rate, if you are correct and later they would be able to quit entirely I would feel bad for those that bought things such as the Trusii Elite X for almost $10k and then later no longer needed it. My thinking on the matter is that it could probably be used indefinitely since outside sources for contamination and destruction of the body get worse by the year this will only ever serve to help mitigate that and keep it at bay till perhaps one-day people stop destroying everything. Cleansing the body can only ever take you so far before you have to start cleansing the environment that caused the body to need cleansing. That's negative though so enough of that.

 

 

On a more constructive note has anyone considered or looked into using empty desiccant packs? They have a bunch easily found on places like AliExpress and probably eBay too. They come in all kinds of styles, little Tyvek looking bags, mini plastic cylinder containers with tiny perforations in the lid, etc? I'm wondering if that might make for an easy way to create single-use or reloadable reaction chambers that could keep the leftovers from contaminating the water possibly. Maybe with some minor modifications? For my hiking purposes, it seems the bags would be most useful from a space-saving standpoint but either would be handy if they could be used. I could mix up a bunch before heading out and use them along the way if so   

 

Obviously, I would need powders only for that and some accurate measurements for each "load" I package but that shouldn't be too hard. 

 

Oh ya and for all those wanting good Mg Rods I found these, which I can't link, so here are references to google I guess.

Magnesium Metal Rods - pack of 5 from UnitedNuclear - They're claiming 99.995% on those 5x for $15

H2 Magnesium Rod - 1x from Eck-Tech - He just claims it to be .9999 for 1x at $9

 

I haven't purchased or tested the composition of either but they are likely better than China rods and possibly random Amazon rods which could just be China rods too. Lol, these could be as well I suppose

 

Anyway, maybe Hip or aconita have explored the desiccant idea or have some input of whether it should be explored further.

 

Phoebus I would think that since H2 gets "used" up during many of its tasks and we as a society have created more new ways every year to add to the task list any amount will have some kind of therapeutic value unless you naturally create a huge abundance through bacteria, but I have still seen no evidence that there can be too much or that it would linger in the body if there were so even then you may not benefit but likely aren't harming anything either. This is all speculation on my part so it could be entirely mistaken. I guess if it is then someone will scold me and we both learn something new

[Phoebus]

there is a reviewer on amazon who claims to have professional equipment to measure H2 levels. 

 

He said the tablets create water with 1.2 ppm H2, no higher. However his water ionizer creates 1.5 ppm H2 

 

I mean heck there a a $3,000 H2 water machine on amazon that makes 1.5 ppm, no different than the ionizer (if that amazon reveiwer can be trusted) 

 

 

That leads to the obvious question that maybe the health benefits claimed by people consuming "alkaline water" produced by these ionizing machines are actually a result of the H2 that is present in the water? 

Edited by Phoebus, 04 October 2018 - 02:24 AM.

[H2enthusiast]

there is a reviewer on amazon who claims to have professional equipment to measure H2 levels. 

 

He said the tablets create water with 1.2 ppm H2, no higher. However his water ionizer creates 1.5 ppm H2 

 

I mean heck there a a $3,000 H2 water machine on amazon that makes 1.5 ppm, no different than the ionizer (if that amazon reveiwer can be trusted) 

 

 

That leads to the obvious question that maybe the health benefits claimed by people consuming "alkaline water" produced by these ionizing machines are actually a result of the H2 that is present in the water? 

 

 

First off, yes the research in Asia abandoned 'alkaline', and 'pH' and '-ORP' a decade ago with the realization of H2 having therapeutic benefits. Of course ionizers make H2, they are typically just very poor at dissolving it for a number of reasons. Some ionizers CAN get over 1ppm with ideal source water and frequent cleaning, however lower TDS in the source water leads to much lower H2(often closer to 0.1-0.3ppm) and infrequent cleaning leads to calcification of the plates resulting in irreversible damage. Basically they will still make H2, but the bubble diameters will be much too large to dissolve in the water.

As for the 'professional equipment', H2 meters cost over $10,000, the probes are incredibly fragile, and they are still often less utilitarian than the reagent. Many researchers are developing methods such as using gas chromatography along with other methods to determine peaks in dissolved and retained gas, or gas evolved tests etc. The meter the amazon user is likely referring to is a trustlex meter or something similar(Chinese knock off), in the $500-1000 range. These meters are incredibly inaccurate and rely on measuring pH, temperature and -ORP to try to extrapolate H2. This is very flawed. They also cap at 2ppm in measurement to account for cold water, and are incapable of measuring the quasi dissolved H2 gas.

There is a write up on this at H2 Sciences:

https://www.h2sciencesinc.com/orp.html
 

 

While the reagent CAN be tricked, for instance there are powders and capsules in Europe that reduce the drops using strong reducing powders but make little to no H2, or Flanagan and his bullshit sodium borohydride(that is what is in Mega Hydride, not 'Silica Hydride' or whatever impossible load of crap he claims), magnesium and the H2 it would create are stoichiometrically equivalent for reducing the H2 blue.. meaning even IF any Magnesium reduced H2 Blue(the Mg particle would need to be in the nano range, meaning it would literally be pico seconds from being H2), it would reduce at the same rate the H2 it was about to liberate would reduce.. and that isn't even considering the reaction with the acid and water is far more favourable.

[H2enthusiast]

 

Thanks H2enthusiast for another quick and informative response. I had a feeling the tablets wouldn't be a DIY option but it never hurts to ask I suppose. I'm still looking around for a practical solution that could be used while camping/hiking. Basically, it would need to be cheap, quick, small, mobile, and very easy to handle variable conditions and water temps. I was planning to have a method for distilling water while I was out there so the water would at least be clean. It's essentially the same set of requirements for everyone else trying it at home but with a couple of extras, namely mobility, and space efficiency. The Mg rod and acid method are space efficient and fairly mobile I suppose but I don't like the idea of it being random values all the time for the reaction and I really don't like the idea of consuming copious unknown amounts of reaction byproducts (Mg, Malate, Etc.). Going a step further to have a more measured approach and separate the reaction makes sense but then it becomes less mobile and less quick/easy. The other consideration in this is durability. If I have a bunch of glass and specific plastic containers and such outdoors for long enough there's plenty that could go wrong to damage things and then I no longer have a way to do the reaction and likely no real way to remedy the situation either. I would just buy the tablets but the whole point of what I was going to be doing was about minimalism so having a mountain of supplies defeats that and those tablets do add up to quite a lot annually so I would still like to avoid that like the others are trying for. Buying them occasionally as needed is one thing but buying a stockpile is a good chunk of cash for 1 item in the backpack.

 

So, you're thinking with the dosage is that after the initial benefits some sort of homeostasis would be reached and they could taper off of it and eventually quit altogether? I can see how that would make sense. It seems like H being so tiny and mobile would make it easy to flush out of the body if it wasn't needed so how would one really know if it was doing something or just taking off somewhere else without doing anything? Additionally, reading through the list of studies on MHI and the wealth of topics they cover makes it seem very hard to know when one could declare it has finished its work. Perhaps so for whatever was being monitored but it seems to perform such a large array of tasks in the body that it would be very hard to say for sure that it's not doing anything anywhere anymore. I'm guessing certain repairs must be completed in the body before others can begin and since many problems people seek to fix are further down the chain and not the root cause how would one know if the cause is fixed or just the later symptoms we typically fixate on?  Reading through Wikipedia on H makes it seem even harder to pin down what and when it's doing anything since they claim it "has played a key role in the development of quantum mechanics". Which to me, at a glance, implies it can do some quantum level trickery in the body and that's a whole new level of difficulty to narrow in on and claim specifics about. At any rate, if you are correct and later they would be able to quit entirely I would feel bad for those that bought things such as the Trusii Elite X for almost $10k and then later no longer needed it. My thinking on the matter is that it could probably be used indefinitely since outside sources for contamination and destruction of the body get worse by the year this will only ever serve to help mitigate that and keep it at bay till perhaps one-day people stop destroying everything. Cleansing the body can only ever take you so far before you have to start cleansing the environment that caused the body to need cleansing. That's negative though so enough of that.

 

 

On a more constructive note has anyone considered or looked into using empty desiccant packs? They have a bunch easily found on places like AliExpress and probably eBay too. They come in all kinds of styles, little Tyvek looking bags, mini plastic cylinder containers with tiny perforations in the lid, etc? I'm wondering if that might make for an easy way to create single-use or reloadable reaction chambers that could keep the leftovers from contaminating the water possibly. Maybe with some minor modifications? For my hiking purposes, it seems the bags would be most useful from a space-saving standpoint but either would be handy if they could be used. I could mix up a bunch before heading out and use them along the way if so   

 

Obviously, I would need powders only for that and some accurate measurements for each "load" I package but that shouldn't be too hard. 

 

Oh ya and for all those wanting good Mg Rods I found these, which I can't link, so here are references to google I guess.

Magnesium Metal Rods - pack of 5 from UnitedNuclear - They're claiming 99.995% on those 5x for $15

H2 Magnesium Rod - 1x from Eck-Tech - He just claims it to be .9999 for 1x at $9

 

I haven't purchased or tested the composition of either but they are likely better than China rods and possibly random Amazon rods which could just be China rods too. Lol, these could be as well I suppose

 

Anyway, maybe Hip or aconita have explored the desiccant idea or have some input of whether it should be explored further.

 

Phoebus I would think that since H2 gets "used" up during many of its tasks and we as a society have created more new ways every year to add to the task list any amount will have some kind of therapeutic value unless you naturally create a huge abundance through bacteria, but I have still seen no evidence that there can be too much or that it would linger in the body if there were so even then you may not benefit but likely aren't harming anything either. This is all speculation on my part so it could be entirely mistaken. I guess if it is then someone will scold me and we both learn something new

 

 

 

There will always be new damage, so H2 will be useful.. however there is no denying we create liters of H2 per day, so why is such a small shot of it in water so profound for gene signalling?

There is hypothesis that taking an identical daily dosage at the same time for an extended period would equate to no benefit. Numerous early pioneering companies have internally studied on their staff that have found the benefits 'wore off' in washing out, then starting again or adjusting dosage and protocol. I.e. a different dosage at a different time, switching from evening to morning, etc. Anecdotally the reports seem to indicate this works.

There is also evidence emerging regarding 'responders' vs 'non responders' and the recent clinical trial on mild cognitive impairment showed that participants with a certain gene actually improved function over a year, whereas those without that gene did not:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5872374/

[Phoebus]

First off, yes the research in Asia abandoned 'alkaline', and 'pH' and '-ORP' a decade ago with the realization of H2 having therapeutic benefits. Of course ionizers make H2, they are typically just very poor at dissolving it for a number of reasons. Some ionizers CAN get over 1ppm with ideal source water and frequent cleaning, however lower TDS in the source water leads to much lower H2(often closer to 0.1-0.3ppm) and infrequent cleaning leads to calcification of the plates resulting in irreversible damage. Basically they will still make H2, but the bubble diameters will be much too large to dissolve in the water.
 

 

 

thanks for the feedback. 

 

What are you thoughts on units like this? Claims to create 1.5 ppm H2 water. There are many just like this on amazon. 

 

https://www.amazon.c...lv_ov_lig_dp_it

[H2enthusiast]

I'm sorry I haven't tested it. I know some have issues with chlorine and contaminants

I've heard that the actual patented device from Paino(Korean company) is fairly reliable. The Hibon made ones I've heard have gotten better but still have issues. I'm not ure who the manufacturer of this unit is(The distributor and manufacturer cannot be confused as one in the same)

I know they can hit 1.5ppm absolutely, so it is just about water quality after that. Some claim they can get high H2(3ppm+) with multiple charges, but from what I've heard the seals break(that's 30+ psi) and hitting the charge button more than twice voids the warranty. This is all second hand info
 

thanks for the feedback. 

 

What are you thoughts on units like this? Claims to create 1.5 ppm H2 water. There are many just like this on amazon. 

 

https://www.amazon.c...lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

[cristi1234]

Phoebus

hydrogen water portable generator can producing 1,5 ppm.

but more atention and investigation.

i buy an portable generator hydrogen age2 go from aquacentrum brand germany.

first i read all review on english site aquacentrum and german version.

On german version site more review 5 stars .

On site , seller say ,

 

• After 7 minutes use the liquid dissolved and indicated the dissolved hydrogen.
• After 15 minutes use the Age2 Go reached with 0,5 de-ionized water 1,3 ppm.
• At 40 minutes has the maximum limit of its pressure resistance been reached.
• In the water we measure then 4,0 ppm hydrogen in de-ionized water.

contacting seller and asking about 4 ppm?

 

The seller was honest , the response was 

you can  obtein 1.5 or 2 ppm , depending many factors .

 

i buy the product , the water appear very good , but i obtein only 1 ppm , maybe 1,2 ppm .

another product aquacentrum brand

 

What is a hydrogen-booster – an HRW generator?

 

• Hydrogen rich water was until now only produced by stationary electric water ionizers. But one does also want to drink fresh activated water when on the go.
• Initially just small electrolysis devices were converted to battery power. These, however, were not able to store enough because they did not remove the oxygen, instead increased it.
• Hydrogen dissolves very reluctantly in water, unless, it is pressed in with high pressure. That is exactly what a Hydrogen Booster does. It is a high pressure-diaphragm-water-ionizer with a PEM cell, that only produces a few drops of waste water as a condensate, and removes the oxidising water components. Result:
• Hydrogen rich water. Sadly it is not also alkaline, like from a water ionizer.
• Whilst the hydrogen water bag can be filled with 2,8 ppm hydrogen content, can the AquaVolta® Hydrogen Booster reach up to 6,1 ppm.

not asking seller about 6 ppm , but is relevant the 5 stars review 

 

I purchased the hydrogen booster from Yasin some weeks ago, along with the h2 blue reagent kit. Is it worth it? Definately! Using the h2 reagent, I found my water ionizer was producing 0.5 ppm hydrogen at ph of 9.5. I think it should be a little more than this so I will give it a descale soon. Anyway, using the alkaline water from the ionizer (550ml.) and then treating for the recomended 21 minutes the h2 kit gave a reading of 2.5 ppm hydrogen. I also have two of Dr. Hayashis hydrogen sticks in a 550 ml. bottle filled with North London tap water. This after 30 minutes gave a reading of 0.6 ppm hydrogen. Using this water in the booster for 21 minutes gave the same reading as the ionized water at 2.5 ppm. 
In a few days after I have descaled the ionizer I shall do another test, which I am hoping will be even higher. In the meantime I definately recommend the booster. I was getting more energy from the ionizer and hydrogen sticks, but this feeling has increased at least twofold since using the booster. Buy one, you wont be dissapointed!

 

[cristi1234]

Grimbly

I replicate method Glen with malic acid and magnesium road.

an short video in youtube 4 min 35 sec , with method and test with h2blue

Type in youtube

healty hydrogen water 1.9 ppm

i not using this water for the simple reason , producing diarrhea.

[Phoebus]

 

i not using this water for the simple reason , producing diarrhea.

 

 

yes magnesium give you loose stools, thats not a suprise

 

 

Edited by Phoebus, 04 October 2018 - 03:19 PM.

[Phoebus]

 

 

I purchased the hydrogen booster from Yasin some weeks ago, along with the h2 blue reagent kit. 

 

 

what product are you speaking of here? Can you link it?

 

thank you for you response it was informative 

 

EDIT: okay looks like this produce is what you are using. Not sure available in the US 

 

 

https://www.aquacent...-water-ionizer/

Edited by Phoebus, 04 October 2018 - 03:25 PM.

[Grimbly]

cristi1234 I was not promoting the Mg rod method specifically, simply offering possibly better rods as an option for those that wanted to pursue that method. 

Also, I found a nice article you may wish to read up on that claims there are more antioxidant effects gained from nano-H2 water than regular H2 water and that it had a higher -ORP value. "Antioxidant activities of nano-bubble hydrogen-dissolved water assessed by ESR and 2,2'-bipyridyl methods" at NCBI PubMed

 

Another interesting read I came across "Beneficial biological effects and the underlying mechanisms of molecular hydrogen - comprehensive review of 321 original articles" at NCBI PMC. I think everyone should have a read through this one as it points out what I was saying about how useful H2 can be for so many other things. 

 

H2enthusiast The point I was trying to make yesterday was that if H2 is having any positive effect in the body it's likely cause it was lacking like anything else we might supplement. If at some point it seems to no longer affect anything that doesn't specifically mean it isn't still helping with some deficit it just means it's more subtle or we're looking in the wrong place for its activity. If at some point it really is doing nothing that's fine and maybe that means all is well and balanced as best it can be from H2 alone. It would stand to reason that if our bodies deal with EMF poorly our microbes and bacterias probably will too even if it's only because we can't deal with it they would still suffer from it. That will likely lead to a deficit of H2 eventually and thus supplementation is needed as we can see from the many benefits of doing so already.

 

Not that I'm disputing your statement about us producing liters a day of H2, but is there some study you could point me to that shows this more clearly? I can only seem to locate a few that basically suggest it happens but don't seem very definitive on it or quantify how much is produced.

 

I wanted to see what you thought of using these nano-cloud tablets in a closed container. Is there any reason we couldn't just seal the tablet and let the pressure build to force all the hydrogen it creates into solution?

 

It seems like that would make it easier to test more accurately and if forcing it into solution is better then it would help in that regard as well. Also, if doing this would help it to remain in the water longer it would help for those wishing to drink it more slowly or those wishing to use it's -ORP value to "revitalize" fruits and such

 

Does colder water allow more H2 to stay for longer? If we freeze water it expands so wouldn't that be less pressure and therefore less possible H2, or does the cold negate that? Would freezing the water take too long and release too much H2 to make any difference? I'm mostly just curious to see if ice could contain higher H2 solution levels vs. water cause that seems like it could be useful somehow, and I like eating ice

 

Is there any need to worry about Mg, Malate, etc. intake from these tablets or is it minimal enough that I shouldn't worry over it? I ask cause I don't wish to recommend these to my Dad and then cause him to have negative side effects from it.  

 

I was thinking of having him see if he could participate in the Trusii case study to get their machine for free possibly. Does anyone have input on what they think of this machine and how it works? 

They claim the H2EliteX model puts out 4-9ppm water. Any idea how a machine is doing that? I get how a nano-cloud could be doing that now but not how the machine could be without creating a similar nano-cloud effect. I don't get how a machine could be making such an effect though. At least, not without consumables and I see no indication for such.

I noticed it comes with these "Stainless Steel Double-Walled, Copper lined, Vacuum Insulated H2 Retaining Water Bottles". I thought copper wasn't good and could be harmful when leached into the water. Any thoughts on this?