623 replies to this topic

[aconita]

You are making things more complicated than they are, I have yet to ear somebody getting a fire in the attempt of making a bottle of hydrogen water regardless of powder, ribbon or rods.

 

High hydrogen concentration isn't necessary for some health benefits but it is dose dependent for others, nobody knows exactly how hydrogen works inside the body and certainly it does so at different levels.

 

For whom is seeking the dose dependent benefits it would be impractical to drink several liters of hydrogen water a day therefore concentration in this case does matter.

 

I agree in most cases it isn't worth to go crazy in the attempt to achieve the maximum concentration possible, the methods described in this tread are likely more than enough.

 

My problem with that method, though, is that it's unclear to me how to remove the test tube in order to recharge the acid level without causing sanitation problems or evicting too much hydrogen from the water in the process. (Maybe one only needs to recharge once per full soda bottle consumed?)

 

 

This tread is long but all the answers to your questions and doubts are already in it.

 

Usually it is better practice to use small bottles in order to drink them all once opened since an half empty bottle isn't likely to be able to reach enough pressure to ensure adequate hydrogen concentration in the water plus the mag/acid reaction may stop if one of the two runs out.

 

I can't see the point of using a large bottle and attempting to scoop out the test tube in order to refill it...isn't it just much easier to get a smaller bottle?

 

Lemon juice works, as vinegar does, but since are weaker acids the reaction is poor.

 

Magnesium is the eighth most abundant element in the Earth's crust^[6] and the fourth most common element in the Earth (after iron, oxygen and silicon), making up 13% of the planet's mass and a large fraction of the planet's mantle. It is the third most abundant element dissolved in seawater, after sodium and chlorine.^[7]

 

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Magnesium

 

It is quite cheap and doesn't need to be faked since it would likely be more expensive to fake it than the real thing.

 

Magnesium rods from China are fine in regard to purity and no, there is no concern of aluminum in those, hydrogen water has been professionally tested and resulted free of any contaminants.

 

Mag powder is usually for fireworks and is reasonably pure and clean since fireworks' colors depend on it.

 

Anyway with the test tube method there is no contact with the drinking water therefore purity and cleanliness are even less of a concern.

 

Your tap water is likely to have been in contact with far more concerning potentially contaminating sources than some mag regardless its form.

[adamh]

If you want an elevated level of h2 and don't want to drink all that water, there are several methods. You can create pure hydrogen out of ordinary tap water and electricity. Use a battery charger and electrodes. Stainless steel will work but platinum or high caret gold is better if you want to spend the bucks.

 

I'm still using the tank of hydrogen I bought last year. I put it into a foil balloon and take some when I want it. Its much more expensive to start with that than mg + acid but quicker and more convenient. Over the long haul it may be cheaper and certainly less work. Not everyone has time to play with that stuff. They would like to have it there so they can use it anytime. If you are using the jar with mg, with or without the test tube, I would suggest taking a big breath of whats inside the jar when you first open it. No point in wasting all that h. Most does not dissolve in the water.

 

I've tried making h water and drinking it and it seems to have an effect. But its so much easier to just open the valve and take a breath that I never seem to find the time to make more water

[resveratrol_guy]

You are making things more complicated than they are, I have yet to ear somebody getting a fire in the attempt of making a bottle of hydrogen water regardless of powder, ribbon or rods.

 

High hydrogen concentration isn't necessary for some health benefits but it is dose dependent for others, nobody knows exactly how hydrogen works inside the body and certainly it does so at different levels.

 

For whom is seeking the dose dependent benefits it would be impractical to drink several liters of hydrogen water a day therefore concentration in this case does matter.

 

I agree in most cases it isn't worth to go crazy in the attempt to achieve the maximum concentration possible, the methods described in this tread are likely more than enough.

My problem with that method, though, is that it's unclear to me how to remove the test tube in order to recharge the acid level without causing sanitation problems or evicting too much hydrogen from the water in the process. (Maybe one only needs to recharge once per full soda bottle consumed?)

 

 

This tread is long but all the answers to your questions and doubts are already in it.

 

Usually it is better practice to use small bottles in order to drink them all once opened since an half empty bottle isn't likely to be able to reach enough pressure to ensure adequate hydrogen concentration in the water plus the mag/acid reaction may stop if one of the two runs out.

 

I can't see the point of using a large bottle and attempting to scoop out the test tube in order to refill it...isn't it just much easier to get a smaller bottle?

 

Lemon juice works, as vinegar does, but since are weaker acids the reaction is poor.

 

Magnesium is the eighth most abundant element in the Earth's crust^[6] and the fourth most common element in the Earth (after iron, oxygen and silicon), making up 13% of the planet's mass and a large fraction of the planet's mantle. It is the third most abundant element dissolved in seawater, after sodium and chlorine.^[7]

 

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Magnesium

 

It is quite cheap and doesn't need to be faked since it would likely be more expensive to fake it than the real thing.

 

Magnesium rods from China are fine in regard to purity and no, there is no concern of aluminum in those, hydrogen water has been professionally tested and resulted free of any contaminants.

 

Mag powder is usually for fireworks and is reasonably pure and clean since fireworks' colors depend on it.

 

Anyway with the test tube method there is no contact with the drinking water therefore purity and cleanliness are even less of a concern.

 

Your tap water is likely to have been in contact with far more concerning potentially contaminating sources than some mag regardless its form.

 

In that case, I suppose what I want is mini soda bottles, like the 500 mL ones, assuming that I can still manage to squeeze a test tube through the opening. I would never have thought of doing it that way, with a rotating set of bottles to fill and drink, but it makes perfect sense, so thanks.

 

I have no idea about the flammability in practical use. All I know is that some forms of magnesium are required to have hazmat labelling during shipping due to this theoretical hazard.

 

You make a strong case for why Chinese manufacturers wouldn't find it attractive to cheat. You're probably right, but I know they would if they could, so I still recommend that people measure the density of the rods they receive. (It's just the mass divided by the volume of a cylinder.)

 

I'm particularly interested by your comment that H2 is sometimes dose-dependent and sometimes not. I've never heard of a drug that can't make up its mind about this. Then again, H2 is as simple as it gets, so it's actually unsurprising that it has this dual personality. Can you make any reasonable generalizations as to when it does and does not have dose-dependence as opposed to a dose threshold? (To be more precise, there is no such thing as a dose threshold. We just imagine that such a thing exists because the maximum effective dose is so small. But there is still surely dose-dependence below that already small level. The question is, why is the saturation level so tiny in such cases?)

[resveratrol_guy]

If you want an elevated level of h2 and don't want to drink all that water, there are several methods. You can create pure hydrogen out of ordinary tap water and electricity. Use a battery charger and electrodes. Stainless steel will work but platinum or high caret gold is better if you want to spend the bucks.

 

I'm still using the tank of hydrogen I bought last year. I put it into a foil balloon and take some when I want it. Its much more expensive to start with that than mg + acid but quicker and more convenient. Over the long haul it may be cheaper and certainly less work. Not everyone has time to play with that stuff. They would like to have it there so they can use it anytime. If you are using the jar with mg, with or without the test tube, I would suggest taking a big breath of whats inside the jar when you first open it. No point in wasting all that h. Most does not dissolve in the water.

 

I've tried making h water and drinking it and it seems to have an effect. But its so much easier to just open the valve and take a breath that I never seem to find the time to make more water

 

I actually thought of this. It certainly seems much more straightforward. One could either use electrolysis of water, or just get a cylinder of the stuff delivered every so often. But then, I'm not sure I want to risk turning my house into the Hindenburg!

 

But flammability aside, do you mean to say that you're just huffing H2? How do you do that? Do you just suck off the ballon, then tie it back up until you need more? How do you avoid passing out due to oxygen displacement in the lungs? Do you get dizzy from doing this? Really it sounds like a cool idea, but I have to wonder about all these practical issues. Care to share any photos of your tank setup? How did you acquire it?
 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 11 May 2017 - 04:23 PM.

[aconita]

Chinese manufacturer of mag cylindrical rods is likely just one since they all come in the same size (actually two sizes are available) and same packaging.

 

As with most if not all Chinese items manufacturer is one in despite of sellers being many.

 

Mag is flammable but requires a relatively high temperature to ignite, it is not something that will just happen out of nowhere, the gas in your car tank is by far more dangerous in that respect.

 

Eventually some concern might be about the hydrogen which can ignite by a tiny spark or even by itself under some conditions, in practice it seems that with hydrogen water made by mag/acid at home levels the risk is very low due to the tiny amounts, it might be different with electrolysis set ups or tanks.

 

The benefits due to hydrogen are of different nature and to a certain extent determined also by the route of administration (drinking hydrogen water, breathing gas, transdermal gas), some effects aren't dose dependent while others are, we don't know why and how, the whole thing about hydrogen and health is relatively new as research is concerned and exact mechanisms are still far from be fully understood.

 

What we do know for sure is that it is good for health, that usually (but not necessarily always) drinking hydrogen water yields the most desirable results, too tiny concentration/amounts aren't very effective for most but huge amounts aren't necessary neither, some health benefits are dose dependent being more marked as amounts do increase,

 

If you take your time to read this tread you'll find Steamlover (the guy in the video whom brought to the public the mag/acid in the bottle method) reports markedly dose dependent effects on age related pains and aches but especially on increased energy levels (if I do remind correctly) which might be related to mitochondrial redox making sense for the dose dependent factor, at least to a certain extent.

 

At the time being the best one can do is to self experiment in order to find what works best, the beauty of it is that there isn't such a thing like overdosing (the only limit so far is eventually the intestine intolerance to too much mag in the water) and that even just 500ml/day of hydrogen water at a decent concentration is likely enough to provide at least some positive outcomes.

 

Experiment and report here the outcomes, anecdotal experience is as valuable as scientific research from a practical point of view.    

[adamh]

 

If you want an elevated level of h2 and don't want to drink all that water, there are several methods. You can create pure hydrogen out of ordinary tap water and electricity. Use a battery charger and electrodes. Stainless steel will work but platinum or high caret gold is better if you want to spend the bucks.

 

I'm still using the tank of hydrogen I bought last year. I put it into a foil balloon and take some when I want it. Its much more expensive to start with that than mg + acid but quicker and more convenient. Over the long haul it may be cheaper and certainly less work. Not everyone has time to play with that stuff. They would like to have it there so they can use it anytime. If you are using the jar with mg, with or without the test tube, I would suggest taking a big breath of whats inside the jar when you first open it. No point in wasting all that h. Most does not dissolve in the water.

 

I've tried making h water and drinking it and it seems to have an effect. But its so much easier to just open the valve and take a breath that I never seem to find the time to make more water

 

I actually thought of this. It certainly seems much more straightforward. One could either use electrolysis of water, or just get a cylinder of the stuff delivered every so often. But then, I'm not sure I want to risk turning my house into the Hindenburg!

 

But flammability aside, do you mean to say that you're just huffing H2? How do you do that? Do you just suck off the ballon, then tie it back up until you need more? How do you avoid passing out due to oxygen displacement in the lungs? Do you get dizzy from doing this? Really it sounds like a cool idea, but I have to wonder about all these practical issues. Care to share any photos of your tank setup? How did you acquire it?
 

 

 

I bought a tank of h from a welding supply store, cost right around $100, might have been as high as 120. I bought a regulator for like 35 on fleabay, used. I had to jury rig a bit from the regulator to the balloon, there are no fittings I could find which screwed on the threads of the regulator output. I know they exist but could not find them. If you buy a tank be sure to ask about that.

 

So I used a wrong size fitting that does not screw on tight but kinda tight, attached to a plastic tube, that part was easy. A cheap plastic valve in the balloon. Attach temporarily the plastic tube from the tank, fill balloon, close valves. When I want some, I open the valve on the balloon and take a little breath. It does not need to be a full breath, just a quarter breath. I hold about a minute and let it out.

 

I feel immediately a slight dizzy feeling. I felt the same when I used electrolysis and filled a jar with h and sniffed it. Hydrogen narcosis is a known phenomenon, but its not that euphoric more like hyperventilating, sorry guys The breath will have some oxygen with it since its not pure h. I do run out of air after about a minute. I try not to breath deeply, just take another partial breath to keep in the h. I notice immediate effects, arthritic discomfort generally goes right away or diminishes. Ultra sound is actually better at doing that, I use the h mostly for the health benefits.

 

the "hindenberg" lol. If you watch the film of the hindenberg burning, you see it simply burns and does not explode. We have there probably several tons and many many cubic meters of h and no explosion, just a normal though fast burning fire. A tiny tank of h like I bought has about the same fire potential as a small cylinder of propane or a box of  cig lighters it holds only 20 cu ft. Not to worry and they are made under strict standards. 

 

My tank was bought almost a year ago, I'll have to check the date but I think it was next month or july it will be a year. I still have well over half the tank left and my balloon is leaking too fast, I need to keep it in a better place where it doesn't get messed with so much. Seal the opening with hot glue and put an extension on the part of the valve that goes into the balloon so it draws better. I put a piece of airline tubing like for aquariums. I got 2 balloons off fleabay for a buck

 

Lets say I have $150 in the rig, should get another year at least. So in 2 years I'm out $75 a year if I toss it out after the tank is empty. Or I could sell it for about what I paid or close to it making the investment actually and investment I'll get back. Or refill the tank which at latest prices will cost me $20 and be good for another couple years or so. So my real cost is really about $10 a year, or 80 cents a month to avoid buying magnesium, which is not free, plus the other materials and doing all that work. I also avoid mg overload and taking in metal of dubious purity. I'm sure the chinese are wonderful people but their track record of safety leaves a lot to be desired. They poison their own people by mistake let alone strangers.

 

So, the main advantages of using a tank are:

 

1. saves tons of time and messy preparation

2. available anytime you want it, even if you forget to put your stuff to brew

3. no additional cost beyond the balloon and some tubing, no further costs.

4. no funny tasting water to drink or risk of the runs from too much mg

5. no worries about impurities.

 

Over the long haul its cheaper than the mg system which is a good system, not knocking it I just think a tank is better. If you are not sure you are going to keep using h then go with mg rods or electrolysis. If you have tried it and are sure you won't ditch it in a month or two, consider picking up a tank. 

 

There are also setups that purport to create h water by plugging it into your computer or other voltage source. There are rigs meant for autos that run on 12v and make h gas.

[resveratrol_guy]

Chinese manufacturer of mag cylindrical rods is likely just one since they all come in the same size (actually two sizes are available) and same packaging.

 

As with most if not all Chinese items manufacturer is one in despite of sellers being many.

 

Mag is flammable but requires a relatively high temperature to ignite, it is not something that will just happen out of nowhere, the gas in your car tank is by far more dangerous in that respect.

 

Eventually some concern might be about the hydrogen which can ignite by a tiny spark or even by itself under some conditions, in practice it seems that with hydrogen water made by mag/acid at home levels the risk is very low due to the tiny amounts, it might be different with electrolysis set ups or tanks.

 

The benefits due to hydrogen are of different nature and to a certain extent determined also by the route of administration (drinking hydrogen water, breathing gas, transdermal gas), some effects aren't dose dependent while others are, we don't know why and how, the whole thing about hydrogen and health is relatively new as research is concerned and exact mechanisms are still far from be fully understood.

 

What we do know for sure is that it is good for health, that usually (but not necessarily always) drinking hydrogen water yields the most desirable results, too tiny concentration/amounts aren't very effective for most but huge amounts aren't necessary neither, some health benefits are dose dependent being more marked as amounts do increase,

 

If you take your time to read this tread you'll find Steamlover (the guy in the video whom brought to the public the mag/acid in the bottle method) reports markedly dose dependent effects on age related pains and aches but especially on increased energy levels (if I do remind correctly) which might be related to mitochondrial redox making sense for the dose dependent factor, at least to a certain extent.

 

At the time being the best one can do is to self experiment in order to find what works best, the beauty of it is that there isn't such a thing like overdosing (the only limit so far is eventually the intestine intolerance to too much mag in the water) and that even just 500ml/day of hydrogen water at a decent concentration is likely enough to provide at least some positive outcomes.

 

Experiment and report here the outcomes, anecdotal experience is as valuable as scientific research from a practical point of view.    

 

Thanks for the safety info. I have no reason to doubt your assertions in this regard, although I have no knowledge in that area.

 

Thanks also for the additional details about the minimum and maximum doses which would likely be effective. As you say, the only way forward is through empirical analysis. At least, that gives me some idea of the experimental region. I'm going to try the testtube method so I can push my H2 dose higher without worrying about Mg.

 

I tested some expensive off-the-shelf H2 pills for a few weeks, and the only clear effect I noticed (which has disappeared in the couple weeks that I've been off it) is sleep improvement. I was getting amazingly good sleep, and I couldn't figure out why, mainly because H2 initially had no effect. I mean, I felt nicely hydrated, but for all I know that could have been the Mg. It took probably 2 weeks for the sleep effect to materialize, and about a week for it to disappear afterward. Looking back, I don't see any more probable explanation than H2. I'm gonna restart dosing in a few days...

[resveratrol_guy]

Thanks for all that. It's great to have the details here for those of us who want to try the "pro" version. For now, I'm just gonna experiment with rods and see if it actually continues to be helpful enough to justify the hassle.

 

The only thing I would add is that regulators can be your worst enemy if they're not properly manufactured or installed, especially when dealing with a tiny gas like H2 which also happens to be flammable. It sounds like you have a safe setup, but FYI for anyone looking to copy you.

[adamh]

You use the regulator made for hydrogen of course. The h tank will not accept a regulator made for another gas like co2 or acetylene or something. It has a special thread. You shut off the tank after each use. Like I say, no one worries too much about a cylinder of propane or cooking gas. No more danger with h than that. If you have a cig lighter in your pocket that is actually more dangerous but nothing to worry about.

 

They have electrical pots that produce h water by electrolysis

 

An alternate method is to put your mg rods in the water, put a glass upside down over them with no air in the glass. The h will bubble up and fill the glass. You then take the glass and sniff the h in it. I used to do that with my 12v batter charger doing electrolysis. 

[resveratrol_guy]

You use the regulator made for hydrogen of course. The h tank will not accept a regulator made for another gas like co2 or acetylene or something. It has a special thread. You shut off the tank after each use. Like I say, no one worries too much about a cylinder of propane or cooking gas. No more danger with h than that. If you have a cig lighter in your pocket that is actually more dangerous but nothing to worry about.

 

They have electrical pots that produce h water by electrolysis

 

An alternate method is to put your mg rods in the water, put a glass upside down over them with no air in the glass. The h will bubble up and fill the glass. You then take the glass and sniff the h in it. I used to do that with my 12v batter charger doing electrolysis. 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I think people need to understand that this isn't just any old gas tank, but rather it's rated for H2 containment. Maybe I'll get to where you are eventually, but for now I'm messing around with rods just in an effort to see if the effect is real, particularly on my sleep, or whether it was just luck.
 

[resveratrol_guy]

This is weird...

 

After checking the density of the rods I bought, which looked about right, I went about setting up my first test tube experiment. The first thing I discovered is that there was a lot of weird oxide on the rod. Fortunately, a practice run with lemon juice in the test tube burned most of it off.

 

But unfortunately, despite my efforts, I could never get a hole in the rubber stopper which was large enough for H2 but small enough for anything else. I was just unable to contain the fizz from the lemon juice. (Not to worry, as Lreader kindly pointed out in this blog, I should probably be using course-grained cork.)

 

I ended up running 4 tests and breaking 2 test tubes! Oops.

 

Now, this morning, I awakened after a night of excellent sleep, which I had not experienced since shortly after my last H2 water consumption quite a while ago. It immediately occurred to me that it had to be something else I'm doing, because I definitely had no H2 water last night. But then, when I thought about it, I realized that I must have inhaled quite a bit of the stuff because I was standing over the test tube while it was fizzing out white foam into the sink on 4 separate occasions.

 

Is this possible? Could better sleep result from hormetic levels of H2 exposure? My bullshit meter is screaming, but I can't think of what else it could be.

 

[aconita]

Don't worry about the oxide on the rod, we initially were concerned and provided to clean it every time in vinegar but found later on that actually it doesn't affects the reaction and you can leave it where it is no problem.

 

In a rubber stopper it is not easy to drill a hole since it tends to seal back, you may try with a red hot pin.

 

Japanese did experiment with spending time in hydrogen "filled" rooms, concentration has to be very low for obvious reasons but nevertheless they experience positive outcomes.

 

Therefore you can't rule out that just the little exposure you got played some effects.

 

Possibly is very subjective too, if hydrogen really pushes your button maybe just very little exposure is enough to trigger a response, for someone else it might be different and different levels of exposure are necessary to get something out of it.

 

That's why self experimentation and reporting the outcomes is so important at this stage.

[adamh]

This is why I tell people to sniff the gas in the jar when they make their h water. If you let it escape you are losing the best part. 

 

Has anyone used those coffee pot looking rigs that make h water after being plugged in? The price is reasonable on them.

 

Edited by adamh, 15 May 2017 - 09:43 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

My concern with the oxide was not about the reaction. It was about whether it might consist of different metals than magnesium, which might then get released upon reaction. That's why I'll always do a test run on a new rod before actually consuming the water. Granted, this is less of an issue with a cork stopper firmly in place.

 

So was that Japanese experiment controlled? I imagine most people would report some effects if they were told that they were breathing low levels of H2, even if it was untrue.

 

Coffee pot rigs? Any links?

[aconita]

Mag when exposed to atmosphere reacts and develops a tiny layer of oxide, therefore it isn't a different metal but mag oxide which actually isn't too bad.

 

Usually mag rods come in sealed pouches in order to prevent oxide forming and to keep nice shining look.

 

If I do remember correctly it isn't an experiment but a reality offered to customers to spend time in hydrogen rooms in Japan, something like a SPA treatment kind of thing.

 

Positive effects of breathing hydrogen are a well documented reality, not just a placebo.

 

It isn't a first choice in my view because a few factors: effects are different from hydrogen water and somehow less attractive, breathing hydrogen is a bit tricky since too much will lead to fainting or even death, a mixture as low as 10% hydrogen is highly explosive and can ignite with the smallest spark, purity of the gas is an issue....and many other reasons already discussed in this tread.

[adamh]

 

Coffee pot rigs? Any links?

 

Here is one at random from fleabay, you may be able to find better deals. This one is $45 and produces h water without mg. If the link doesn't work just put hydrogen water into the search area and a bunch will come up. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/...505&rk=1&rkt=1

 

Hydrogen is flammable and flammables can be explosive. However they have to be mixed with the proper amount of oxygen and confined. H is actually less flammable than gasoline. take a look at the film of the hindenberg burning, there were tons of h in it but not the correct mixture with air nor was it confined so it just burned. That much gasoline would have burned even faster. Common substances like propane, paint thinner etc can do the same thing.

 

As for being in a room full of (some) h2, that would be a great thing. It will get into your stomach too since it penetrates so well. Years ago people used to go into hyperbaric oxygen chambers under pressure. Mikey jackson used to do it. There are drawbacks to that and its only really useful if the person has an area of the body not getting enough oxygen. H does not need to be under pressure and 2% is plenty. A dollar a minute would be a bargain or make your own for cheap.

[resveratrol_guy]

Mag when exposed to atmosphere reacts and develops a tiny layer of oxide, therefore it isn't a different metal but mag oxide which actually isn't too bad.

 

Usually mag rods come in sealed pouches in order to prevent oxide forming and to keep nice shining look.

 

If I do remember correctly it isn't an experiment but a reality offered to customers to spend time in hydrogen rooms in Japan, something like a SPA treatment kind of thing.

 

Positive effects of breathing hydrogen are a well documented reality, not just a placebo.

 

It isn't a first choice in my view because a few factors: effects are different from hydrogen water and somehow less attractive, breathing hydrogen is a bit tricky since too much will lead to fainting or even death, a mixture as low as 10% hydrogen is highly explosive and can ignite with the smallest spark, purity of the gas is an issue....and many other reasons already discussed in this tread.

 

The problem with the oxide is that we can't confirm its chemical composition easily. That's why I recommend burning it off with a test run before making drinking water.

 

Yeah, I think I'll stick to rods. No explosive hydrogen spa for me!
 

[resveratrol_guy]

 

 

Coffee pot rigs? Any links?

 

Here is one at random from fleabay, you may be able to find better deals. This one is $45 and produces h water without mg. If the link doesn't work just put hydrogen water into the search area and a bunch will come up. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/...505&rk=1&rkt=1

 

Hydrogen is flammable and flammables can be explosive. However they have to be mixed with the proper amount of oxygen and confined. H is actually less flammable than gasoline. take a look at the film of the hindenberg burning, there were tons of h in it but not the correct mixture with air nor was it confined so it just burned. That much gasoline would have burned even faster. Common substances like propane, paint thinner etc can do the same thing.

 

As for being in a room full of (some) h2, that would be a great thing. It will get into your stomach too since it penetrates so well. Years ago people used to go into hyperbaric oxygen chambers under pressure. Mikey jackson used to do it. There are drawbacks to that and its only really useful if the person has an area of the body not getting enough oxygen. H does not need to be under pressure and 2% is plenty. A dollar a minute would be a bargain or make your own for cheap.

 

 

Well, I see some of the generators from Souyi Japan, which seems to be a primary supplier. It says it can make about 7500 glasses of H2 water before the battery permanently dies. How is that not economical at $89? Now that I think about it, why would I bother with rods at all? Even if you don't make much money, the time saved alone would be worth it, unless I'm missing something. Am I? (Well one product mentioned that it only makes 607 ppb H2 water, which sucks, but I'm not sure if this applies to all of them.)

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 18 May 2017 - 06:36 AM.

[Lreader]

600 - 700 ppb is the same as 0.6 to 0.7 ppm hydrogen concentration, which doesn't compare to 5.0+ ppm using the test tube in a plastic bottle. Besides, it now takes me only 45 minutes, from start producing to finish drinking. (30 min. in freezer + 15 min. agitation/ drinking). The ppb data on generators from Souyi Japan: http://global.rakute...an/item/sy-065/

Edited by Lreader, 18 May 2017 - 12:25 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

600 - 700 ppb is the same as 0.6 to 0.7 ppm hydrogen concentration, which doesn't compare to 5.0+ ppm using the test tube in a plastic bottle. Besides, it now takes me only 45 minutes, from start producing to finish drinking. (30 min. in freezer + 15 min. agitation/ drinking). The ppb data on generators from Souyi Japan: http://global.rakute...an/item/sy-065/

 

I see your point, but 45 minutes is a long time to wait for a glass of water, even if most of that time you can spend doing other things. Not that I see a way around it, short of going to a hydrogen tank. Or maybe if we added sufficient electrolytes, we could just drink and pee all day long.

[aconita]

Maybe it's just me but it takes less than 1 minute to prepare my hydrogen water bottle, maybe because naively I don't count as "time" that spent in the fridge....

[adamh]

I would not take as absolute fact any of the ppm or ppb figures tossed about. For one thing, h will rapidly leave water when pressure is released. If you sniff the h before its lost you will get that but the idea seems to be to make h water not to sniff it. .6ppm is not too bad and probably about what you will get with any method. The advantage to the pot method is you don't have to screw with it all the time. Make up a pot, leave it overnight and next day drink it. End of day you refil your pot.

 

Or a tank or one of those rigs they use for cars that generate h. They run off 12v so any car battery charger will work fine on them. The argument that h water is better because it gets to the stomach and upper intestine is a little weak since h will get there anyway if you breath it. Drinking all that water with mg dissolved of dubious purity seems like the worst way. The test tube is a step up from that.

[Hip]

I would not take as absolute fact any of the ppm or ppb figures tossed about. 

 

I would, because I measured the ppm levels in the hydrogen rich water created by the "test tube in a bottle method" using a very reliable approach: collecting the H2 gas actually leaving the water, and then measuring its volume. With this data, you can calculate the ppm. See earlier posts in this thread for my method of ppm measurement.

 

 

 

 

For one thing, h will rapidly leave water when pressure is released. 

 

It's not that rapid. The half life of hydrogen rich water is around 2 hours. So if you have 5 ppm water, it will 2.5 ppm two hours after you first open the bottle. Then after 4 hours later, it will be 1.25 ppm, and so forth.

 

As far as ghrelin release is concerned, even low ppm concentrations of 0.08 ppm have been shown to be just as effective as higher concentrations (read the old posts in this thread for why), which means from the ghrelin perspective, even 12 hours after opening the bottle of 5 ppm hydrogen rich water, it will still be viable for stimulating ghrelin release. So one bottle can last you for most of the day.

 

Ghrelin stimulation is being researched as a new way to treat depression, because ghrelin has mood boosting, antidepressant effects. Ghrelin is also neuroprotective. And every time you drink hydrogen rich water, it acts to stimulate the release of ghrelin in the stomach (ghrelin is a hormone that is produced and released mainly by the stomach).

Edited by Hip, 19 May 2017 - 09:27 PM.

[adamh]

(Hip)As far as ghrelin release is concerned, even low ppm concentrations of 0.08 ppm have been shown to be just as effective as higher concentrations

 

Hip, if thats the case then low ppm water is just as good and the coffee pot h maker is the best solution. Of course some posters have reported dose dependent responses so we may never know. With a tank or an h producer you can ingest a bunch of h at once.

 

(Hip)And every time you drink hydrogen rich water, it acts to stimulate the release of ghrelin in the stomach (ghrelin is a hormone that is produced and released mainly by the stomach).

 

Then breathing it does the same because it gets to your stomach via bloodstream and also saliva and things you eat/drink carry it there as well

 

[aconita]

Yes, yes...but we know the mag purity concern is more theoretical  than anything else since testing showed in practice no contaminants whatsoever.

 

In the other hand be aware that electrolysis generated hydrogen isn't as simple as it sounds, in facts purity here is of much greater concern, electrodes gets eroded quite fast releasing undesirable compounds in the water therefore generating impure hydrogen, especially a cheap set up is very dodgy since reasonably safe electrodes have to be expensive by definition: platinum. 

 

Please avoid cheap electrolysis like those for cars or others for hydrogen production if intended for inhaling or drinking since those aren't suited for the scope, really the risk is to do far more harm than good. 

[Hip]

Then breathing it does the same because it gets to your stomach via bloodstream and also saliva and things you eat/drink carry it there as well

 

If you can find me published paper that states breathing hydrogen gas causes ghrelin release, then I will accept it.

 

Or if you can perform a calculation showing that when you breathe H2 gas the way you do, the H2 concentration in the blood reaches at least 0.08 ppm (the minimum concentration in the stomach known to release ghrelin), then I will accept it may cause ghrelin release.

 

Otherwise, the idea that breathing H2 gas releases ghrelin it is just your speculation, but it is not scientific fact.

 

Whereas it is a fact that drinking hydrogen rich water will cause ghrelin release.

 

 

 

Hip, if thats the case then low ppm water is just as good and the coffee pot h maker is the best solution. Of course some posters have reported dose dependent responses so we may never know. With a tank or an h producer you can ingest a bunch of h at once.

 

From the ghrelin perspective, yes, low 0.08 ppm hydrogen rich water is just as good as high ppm, although the advantage of high ppm is that a bottle of water prepared in the morning will last you most of the day, so you can easily drink multiple doses every few hours.

 

If there are any benefits to be had from the other properties of H2 unrelated to ghrelin, such as its antioxidant effect, then presumably high ppm hydrogen rich water is going to be better. 

 

Edited by Hip, 20 May 2017 - 12:16 AM.

[Hip]

adamh, I have just performed a rough calculation which suggests that you will not be able to get the H2 blood concentration up to the 0.08 ppm required for ghrelin secretion by breathing H2 gas, unless you take quite a few large lungfuls of the gas.

 

Here is why:

 

First of all, note that if we take as an example an 80 kg (176 pounds) weight person, given that the average human adult male contains around 65% water (including the blood and water in the tissues), that person will contain around 52 liters of water.

 

And let's asumme when you breath in a large lungful of H2 gas, that throughout the area of your lungs, that H2 gas is put into contact with around 1 liter of blood that is surrounding and flowing through your lung airways. (This is based on a typical blood flow rate of 5 liters per minute through the lungs, and say holding your breath in for 12 seconds).

 

Now we know from the MHF website that the maximum concentration of H2 you can get in water at atmospheric pressure is 1.57 ppm. So a concentration of 1.57 ppm is the maximum you can achieve in that 1 liter of blood we are assuming surrounds your lungs.

 

In fact, it may be less than 1.57 ppm that you get, because the concentration only reaches 1.57 ppm at equilibrium conditions, after the H2 gas is in contact with the water for some time. But when you are breathing, the H2 gas will not be in your lungs for that long. So you might only get half that concentration, or even less.

 

But anyway, we can say that when you breath in a whole lungful of H2, the very best you can hope for is a 1.57 ppm H2 concentration in the assumed 1 liter of blood surrounding your lungs (but the reality might be a concentration quite a bit lower than that). 

 

 

However, even that 1.57 ppm H2 in the 1 liter of blood will very quickly be diluted down in the 52 liters of water you have in your body. So then the H2 concentration you get in your body gets diluted down to 1.57 / 52 = 0.03 ppm. So that falls a little short of the 0.08 ppm that the study showed stimulates the release of ghrelin (it is possible that 0.03 ppm might be enough to release ghrelin, but we do not know that for sure, because the lowest concentration tested by the study to produce ghrelin release was 0.08 ppm).

 

So all in all, it does not look very likely that you will reach the 0.08 ppm H2 concentration in your blood with just one lungful of H2 gas, although this is only a rough calculation. You may need to take 5 or 10 lungfuls of H2 (slowly over a period of say 5 or 10 minutes), each held in as long as possible, in order to stand a reasonable chance hitting the 0.08 ppm concentration and stimulating ghrelin release.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 20 May 2017 - 04:15 AM.

[sub7]

Gentlemen,

 

Anyone want to take a look at this product and opine?

http://www.ebay.com/...ewAAOSwjDZYfsdO

 

it claims: "[Dissolved hydrogen concentration]: 1200 ppb or more"

 

not cheap but not crazy expensive either.

if this is no good, please do share any other EBay-featured products that may be worth the money.

 

 

Another question is about combining the "commercially available Hydrogen Tanks" and water. Can you buy a tank and then use the pressurized Hydrogen in the tank to more easily and conveniently make hydrogen water? It'd be a simple process, no? Much akin to making carbonated beverages at home by using pressurized CO2..... ?

 

Really looking to get on this bandwagon but it is an absolute priority to keep it simple.

[aconita]

Another question is about combining the "commercially available Hydrogen Tanks" and water. Can you buy a tank and then use the pressurized Hydrogen in the tank to more easily and conveniently make hydrogen water? It'd be a simple process, no? Much akin to making carbonated beverages at home by using pressurized CO2..... ?

 

Sure it is possible but not as simple as it looks, there is nothing ready to go on the market, you'll have to make your own apparatus, there are technical issues and mistakes not free of danger.

 

If you are confident to possess the knowledge and skill go for it, an interesting project indeed, but if simplicity is your goal there are easier ways.

 

it claims: "[Dissolved hydrogen concentration]: 1200 ppb or more"

 

Water holds only that much hydrogen, I doubt those numbers are possible but anyway that is just an electrolysis apparatus which, judging by the price, hopefully has appropriate electrodes for the scope, even the most appropriate electrode doesn't last forever and needs to be replaced, which is costly...

 

Simpler than dropping a mag rod in a bottle, add some malic acid and fill it up with water....

 

Really I can't see where all this difficulties come from...

 

Even with the test tube method the biggest difficulty is just to drill a tiny hole in the cap....

[adamh]

@aconita " electrodes gets eroded quite fast releasing undesirable compounds in the water"

 

Where is your evidence they get corroded fast? So the electrodes are suspect even though in a food preparation device that would need fda approval but the mg rods not meant for consumption are assumed to be as pure as possible? The electrodes are designed to be used that way and if they released anything harmful, it would be a scandal and have to be recalled from the market at great cost to the manufacturer. The rods are just rods and not expected to be any certain purity.

 

@Hip "And let's asumme when you breath in a large lungful of H2 gas, that throughout the area of your lungs, that H2 gas is put into contact with around 1 liter of blood that is surrounding and flowing through your lung airways. (This is based on a typical blood flow rate of 5 liters per minute through the lungs, and say holding your breath in for 12 seconds)."

 

12 seconds? Why not one second if you don't care about maximizing h2 intake? You want max intake not min so you hold it as long as you can. I can hold my breath a couple minutes though 1 minute  is more comfortable. This would be 5 times your estimate. So instead of the .03ppm you came up with it might be .15. Another factor is when you exhale you do not exhale every bit of h in your lungs. Some remains and is absorbed later. 

 

As for it getting into your stomach, you will not likely find papers on the subject because it costs money to do these studies and they have little incentive. We are pioneers here. However, it gets there via the bloodstream which may not have .08 concentration but the blood keeps recirculating constantly bathing the stomach in h enriched blood. 

 

@sub7 "it claims: "[Dissolved hydrogen concentration]: 1200 ppb or more""

 

Thats only 1.2 ppm, I see no problem with that. I'm not familiar with the device but the one I linked to creates a pot full of h water to drink during the day with no mg compounds in it let alone other metals.

 

" Can you buy a tank and then use the pressurized Hydrogen in the tank to more easily and conveniently make hydrogen water?"

 

I've done it myself. It does require a bit of tinkering but not all that expensive when you consider a full tank, 20 cu ft costs only $20 to refill. Fill your glass container with pure water, bubble h through it, put the cap on to keep it in, put in fridge to absorb and you have it. It takes no great skill and the danger is minimal. Otoh you might drop the bottle with the mg rod doing it that way, and cut yourself on the glass and die. But that too is unlikely. There is some danger in everything.

 

If you are in the h must come through the stomach crowd, use the electric pot to make your water. If you want higher concentrations and instant availability, try the gas.