623 replies to this topic

[TRUGAN]

Can this magnesium concoction be poured through some kind of special filter to remove any bad metals or contaminants that some are worried about?

[aconita]

According to the results of the analysis performed there are no contaminants to be worried about.

 

The concern is just about the magnesium content that poses a limit to the amount of hydrogen water one can ingest since magnesium at high dosage may cause intestinal discomfort.

[TRUGAN]

According to the results of the analysis performed there are no contaminants to be worried about.

 

The concern is just about the magnesium content that poses a limit to the amount of hydrogen water one can ingest since magnesium at high dosage may cause intestinal discomfort.

 

 

Im just saying for those that might be worried about it and Im not sure we can assume every mag rod will be free of contaminants just because a single test was ok. Im not that worried about it my self or at least not worried enough to let it stop me. I cant wait for the rods to get here but I think its gonna be 3 weeks before I get them.

 

I found it interesting that at least one of the studies actually used the rods from the Dr. Hayashi stick. I think it said they had the subjects use two of his rods and nothing else.

 

Also, about the link posted by niner on the disposable hydrogen tank...If you click some more you'll see they have a refillable hydrogen tank and once you buy the tank it said it was only like 197.00 or something like that to get it refilled.

Does anyone have a clue how long a tank like that would last before needing to be refilled if it was being used to bubble into water at say 2 liters a day? It might be worth it if the cost per liter of water wasnt too high or maybe use both the mag sticks and this to cut down on the magnesium intake. Maybe 1 liter from the mag sticks and 1 liter from the bubble water.

[TRUGAN]

I have been taking Magtein for a while as its supposed to be a better form of magnesium. I assume that I need to probably stop taking it if Im doing the mag rods? 

 

https://www.amazon.c...words=magnesium

 

[adamh]

mrwhitee, there is no point in talking about hydrogen gas, no one in here wants to hear about it or talk about it. They only want to talk about the mg rods and drinking the slop. I'm not so sure there were no contaminants, lead is dangerous in parts per billion which is extremely hard to measure. There are also other metals which may be present such as aluminum, nickel, cadmium and who knows what else? These rods are from china, the most contaminated country on the planet.

 

>Also, about the link posted by niner on the disposable hydrogen tank...If you click some more you'll see they have a refillable hydrogen tank and once you buy the tank it said it was only like 197.00 or something like that to get it refilled.

 

I've posted a method to make your own h2 at practically no cost. Niner posted a method of doing it even easier and perhaps cheaper, another member posted it too. No one seems at all interested, they want to drink it if they can't take it in a pill and breathing a gas is simply not something they are going to do. Why, I don't know.

 

>Can this magnesium concoction be poured through some kind of special filter to remove any bad metals or contaminants that some are worried about?

 

An activated carbon filter would help, but would it remove all contams? I doubt it. Your suggestion of buying a tank of h and bubbling it through water is a better idea than the sticks, imo. Better yet is to breath the gas. Its extremely permeable in our tissues. I've even suggested people trap the h2 that bubbles up from the mg reacting with the acid and breath that. But as one member said, its too much like huffing glue and they don't want to send the wrong message to their kids. Really they did, and the others are thinking it if not saying it. Popping pills and drinking nasty water sends the right message I guess? 

 

I'm doing fine with my hydrogen generator. Works every time and I get more h than drinking several liters of slop a day. 

[TRUGAN]

mrwhitee, there is no point in talking about hydrogen gas, no one in here wants to hear about it or talk about it. They only want to talk about the mg rods and drinking the slop. I'm not so sure there were no contaminants, lead is dangerous in parts per billion which is extremely hard to measure. There are also other metals which may be present such as aluminum, nickel, cadmium and who knows what else? These rods are from china, the most contaminated country on the planet.

 

>Also, about the link posted by niner on the disposable hydrogen tank...If you click some more you'll see they have a refillable hydrogen tank and once you buy the tank it said it was only like 197.00 or something like that to get it refilled.

 

I've posted a method to make your own h2 at practically no cost. Niner posted a method of doing it even easier and perhaps cheaper, another member posted it too. No one seems at all interested, they want to drink it if they can't take it in a pill and breathing a gas is simply not something they are going to do. Why, I don't know.

 

>Can this magnesium concoction be poured through some kind of special filter to remove any bad metals or contaminants that some are worried about?

 

An activated carbon filter would help, but would it remove all contams? I doubt it. Your suggestion of buying a tank of h and bubbling it through water is a better idea than the sticks, imo. Better yet is to breath the gas. Its extremely permeable in our tissues. I've even suggested people trap the h2 that bubbles up from the mg reacting with the acid and breath that. But as one member said, its too much like huffing glue and they don't want to send the wrong message to their kids. Really they did, and the others are thinking it if not saying it. Popping pills and drinking nasty water sends the right message I guess? 

 

I'm doing fine with my hydrogen generator. Works every time and I get more h than drinking several liters of slop a day. 

 

Could you post pics and details of your generator?

[aconita]

Maybe we are focusing on hydrogen water because the tread is about hydrogen water.

 

Nobody denies the possibility to breath hydrogen gas, it is just not the main object of this discussion.

 

Magnesium rods are used because is a very simple method to make hydrogen water, in order to make just hydrogen gas lime and aluminum would be cheaper and maybe more productive.

 

Industrially hydrogen is made by chemical reaction as well as in all the clinical research settings, electrolysis is almost never used, maybe there is a good reason for that or maybe everybody is stupid.

 

"Just" 197$ to get refilled a tank (plus the price of the tank itself that doesn't come cheap) is a matter of point of view, to me is a lot of money, I don't know about others.

 

Once you have got the hydrogen tank how do you saturate the water?

 

Easier said than done.

 

Hydrogen is tricky to handle, just bubbling it in a glass of water will probably only achieve to have it bubbling out of it.

 

You'll likely need a water soda machine and adapt it to the hydrogen tank, which might be not too difficult with the appropriate machinery, all the metal parts needs to be replaced with aluminum or plastic since hydrogen brittle metals, now you have to hope the whole thing is really well done since hydrogen leaking at high pressure is quite able to self ignite and explode which would likely effectively counteract the health benefit of drinking hydrogen water.

 

Maybe if there is not such a machine on the market there is a good reason, or maybe I am the only one who came up with the idea...

 

In the meantime I stick with the mag rods method which cost near to nothing, is safe and doesn't need any weird paraphernalia.

 

 

 

 

[TRUGAN]

Im interested in all the different ways of producing Hydrogen. Only then can I decide which way is best for myself.

[Hebbeh]

To my knowledge, all the available research on the health benefits of hydrogen has been done with hydrogen water not with breathing hydrogen.  I assume there is a reason for this.  The research indicates hydrogen water provides sustained delivery of hydrogen unlike breathing which is transient... most of the hydrogen you breath will be exhaled and even the hydrogen that might make into the blood from breathing probably clears rather quickly unless constantly replaced with constant re-breathing of hydrogen over a period of time.  I recall one study that did compare breathing hydrogen to drinking hydrogen water and that was the conclusion they came to if I remember correctly.  And breathing hydrogen will never get it into the gut like drinking it.... and perhaps that is the key since historically, our exposure to hydrogen results from certain bacteria in our gut microbiome.

[TRUGAN]

To my knowledge, all the available research on the health benefits of hydrogen has been done with hydrogen water not with breathing hydrogen.  I assume there is a reason for this.  The research indicates hydrogen water provides sustained delivery of hydrogen unlike breathing which is transient... most of the hydrogen you breath will be exhaled and even the hydrogen that might make into the blood from breathing probably clears rather quickly unless constantly replaced with constant re-breathing of hydrogen over a period of time.  I recall one study that did compare breathing hydrogen to drinking hydrogen water and that was the conclusion they came to if I remember correctly.  And breathing hydrogen will never get it into the gut like drinking it.... and perhaps that is the key since historically, our exposure to hydrogen results from certain bacteria in our gut microbiome.

 

 

I think you may be correct that oral is better. However, if someone is happy breathing it then thats fine as well. Everyone should pick whats best for them. I think someone suffering from disease would benefit more from the oral but a combination of both certainly wouldnt hurt.

[adamh]

mrwhitee, I have not taken photos of my setup, merely described it. No one has been interested so far. All I hear is arguments that seem to say that is the way to do it and no other way. Because in an experiment they used water. I saw a link a while back to a study that used gas. I will look around to see if I can find it.

 

aconita

>Maybe we are focusing on hydrogen water because the tread is about hydrogen water.

>Nobody denies the possibility to breath hydrogen gas, it is just not the main object of this discussion.

 

So if the thread was about taking mk677 swallowing it no one should talk about injecting it or taking it sublingually? Its just a different method of ingestion. 

 

>Once you have got the hydrogen tank how do you saturate the water? Easier said than done.

 

A triffle, just bubble it through the water and keep it sealed in a glass with h in it. It will dissolve to the extent its able. Letting it escape is wasteful and thats how the mg water people do it.

 

Hebeh

>The research indicates hydrogen water provides sustained delivery of hydrogen unlike breathing which is transient... most of the hydrogen you breath will be exhaled and even the hydrogen that might make into the blood from breathing probably clears rather quickly unless constantly replaced with constant re-breathing of hydrogen over a period of time.

 

What research?  So you are saying the h from the water stays in the body? How do you figure that?

It will dissipate as quickly coming from water as from gas. Once its in the bloodstream, which is where you want it, it goes into every tissue and organ including the gut. Hydrogen perfuses our tissues rapidly I would like to see some evidence that taking it via water keeps it in you longer than by breathing. If you breath it out rapidly then yes you will lose much of the h2 and much of the benefit. Hold it in a while and it goes right into the bloodstream and into your tissues. I can feel it in my mouth and tongue. A liter of h water has only about 3.5 fluid oz of h2 according to niner. A 24 oz cup has more than 6 times as much. Do you drink a whole liter of that nasty water every day? Then you get 1/6 of the h that I get.

 

I can feel and see the benefits by breathing. I don't have to wonder if its being absorbed, I feel it within seconds of taking a little puff and then a breath of air with it and holding. I can feel my arthritis is not as bad, also other benefits.

 

It may be that drinking the slop is better but all I see is people saying over and over its better. Here we use studies to give evidence of what we say. Just giving opinions is ok but its better to base them on something.

 

Here is a link to a portable hydrogen absorption machine for home use 

http://maoan.en.alib...r_home_use.html

[adamh]

Since we already get hydrogen naturally through the gut, wouldn't supplementing it at the other end, so to speak, make more sense? 

 

Here is a link to an endorsement by a doctor for breathing hydrogen

 

http://hydrogenmachine.com/

 

My name is Dr. Steve Doughty. I was first introduced to using hydrogen in medicine at an A4M longevity conference in Las Vegas. The Japanese researcher showed some amazing statistics. Patients had heart-attacks and their heart cells didn't die. They had strokes and brain cells didn't die. They had liver attacks and their liver cells didn't die. The research was so compelling that I was anxious for all my patients to get the benefits of hydrogen as an antioxidant. I have been working with inventors to offer a simple ionization machine to deliver hydrogen gas through a nasal canula. The device is still a bit awkwardly, but the results have very strong. I'm convinced that hydrogen is the best antioxidant.

 

Here is another endorsement of using h2 gas rather than water

 

https://www.quora.co...yanan-4?share=1

 

 

A scientific article about h2 gas. Its behind a paywall unfortunately. Perhaps someone has access and can post it?

 

Inhaled hydrogen gas therapy for prevention of testicular ischemia/reperfusion injury in rats

http://www.sciencedi...022346811007743

 

Here is another article, and not behind a paywall

 

http://www.life-enha...rable-to-that-o

 

The potential benefits of hydrogen therapy are beginning to appear in major journals.

 

Here is another. Let me know if you want more, anyone?

 

http://teslatech.inf.../2016ETCpg6.pdf

[aconita]

So if the thread was about taking mk677 swallowing it no one should talk about injecting it or taking it sublingually? Its just a different method of ingestion.

 

In facts nobody here is against you talking about breathing hydrogen, it is the other way around: it is you getting mad because others are talking about drinking hydrogen water instead of embracing your view.

 

By the way breathing is not ingesting and the ghrelin release triggered by drinking hydrogen water is not necessarily happening with breathing it, at least I am not aware of any research in that direction (that would be welcome if someone knows about it).

 

The ghrelin release is what justify the title of this tread since it is linked to a rise in HGH, as MK677 does (rising HGH levels).

 

A triffle, just bubble it through the water and keep it sealed in a glass with h in it. It will dissolve to the extent its able.

 

 

Since I am really ignorant do you mind to explain in details how you would do that bubbling in a sealed glass?

 

Soda water machines do that with CO2 instead of hydrogen but it doesn't seem to be as easy to homemade that sort of machine as you put it, but maybe you are very smart and able to illuminate us.

 

Letting it escape is wasteful and thats how the mg water people do it

 

Yeah, those magnesium people tribe....kill them all those bastards!

 

The hydrogen breathing Imam has spoken.

 

Did you actually measured appropriately the hydrogen concentration in your jar?

 

Steamlover did and we do know what we are getting, you don't, you just assume.

 

Hydrogen doesn't stay in open bottom containers just because it is lighter then air, in facts it easily escapes from the bottom.

 

I am not sure to understand how do you place the straw in the glass container in order to sip from it but if the bottom is not sealed I doubt you are getting what you assume to get. 

 

Probably a better method would be to generate hydrogen by the chemical reaction of aluminum, lime and water in a plastic container with a inflatable balloon tightly fitted on the opening, than a small hole in the neck of the container can be fitted with a pipe and a valve leading to a mask or nose canula, hydrogen can't escape (in the short term) and develops some PRESSURE inflating the balloon.

 

At that point a visual confirm that there are both hydrogen and pressure is evident (the inflated ballon), the valve can be partially opened in order to let out just the right amount of hydrogen to be breath by way of a mask or canula, just like is done in clinical settings with oxygen.

 

At least with this or similar method the assumption of a certain amount of inhaled hydrogen would be more realistic.

 

 

[adamh]

aconita

>By the way breathing is not ingesting 

 

I can't believe you said that.

 

>the ghrelin release triggered by drinking hydrogen water is not necessarily happening with breathing it

 

Is it the h2 that does it or the water? If its the hydrogen then there is no reason to think dissolving it in water changes its nature. Are you saying it forms some new compound in water? I always thought we were talking about hydrogen?

 

>Did you actually measured appropriately the hydrogen concentration in your jar?

 

I can see the level as it pushes out the water

 

>Steamlover did and we do know what we are getting, you don't, you just assume.

 

Oh, are you saying you don't think electrolysis of water produces h at the negative electrode? Do tell?

 

>Hydrogen doesn't stay in open bottom containers just because it is lighter then air, in facts it easily escapes from the bottom.

 

And you determined that how? The only way I see for it to escape is if there is a breeze blowing that would cause turbulence.

 

>I am not sure to understand how do you place the straw in the glass container in order to sip from it but if the bottom is not sealed I doubt you are getting what you assume to get.

 

The glass is upside down. I put a disc of plastic over the bottom, it has a 1/4" hole in it. I put the straw through the hole and sip h from the part of the glass that is uppermost.

 

>Probably a better method would be to generate hydrogen by the chemical reaction of aluminum, lime and water in a plastic container with a inflatable balloon tightly fitted on the opening, than a small hole in the neck of the container can be fitted with a pipe and a valve leading to a mask or nose canula, hydrogen can't escape (in the short term) and develops some PRESSURE inflating the balloon.

 

That may be better indeed. It would at least be faster. If I did it that way I would have the glass upside down as before with solution in it, put it over the aluminum in the tub of lye + water and let the h rise up in it. As the gas rises it displaces the water and you can see how much h you are getting. Your variation is good too, maybe better depending. But it takes some air tight fittings. I may go over to that method but I have not tested the aluminum tec just yet. 

 

>At that point a visual confirm that there are both hydrogen and pressure is evident (the inflated ballon), the valve can be partially opened in order to let out just the right amount of hydrogen to be breath by way of a mask or canula, just like is done in clinical settings with oxygen.

 

Nothing wrong with that, just takes more equipment. I once again caution people about breathing pure h since it does not have oxygen. But just a balloon full should be ok, the hydrogen tank could be deadly if the person used it straight. I take small tokes of h, mix it with air by breathing in so that the concentration might be no more than perhaps 5%. I feel it, its a bit like breathing nitrous. Its kind of pleasant, not bad at all.

 

>At least with this or similar method the assumption of a certain amount of inhaled hydrogen would be more realistic.

 

Lol, you like your own ideas but not mine it seems. You believe the aluminum tec produces h but not electrolysis? Or you think a strong wind gets into my kitchen and whisks away all the h before I can breath it? I never noticed any wind or breeze, no fans going. I carefully lift up the glass, wipe it a bit and put the disc under it holding it upside down the whole time. Then the straw.

 

At least we are discussing things, that is an improvement. Did you read the links I gave showing h2 gas is very beneficial? I would take a photo of my setup but an upside down glass in a plastic tub is not very edifying. A series of photos showing each step would be better but I don't feel up to it. I will gladly answer questions. I may test the aluminum tec tomorrow and see how it works. I do the electrolysis most of the day, maybe 8 hours. Aluminum might do the job in a few minutes.  

[aconita]

I don't like your method because you are too simplistic in a field that is not as simple as you think.

 

http://www.dangerous...2homesystem.pdf

 

From the dictionary:

 

Breathing - (Physiology) the passage of air into and out of the lungs to supply the body with oxygen

 

Ingesting - to take (food or liquid) into the body

 

Since ghrelin release depends by the stomach and intestine drinking hydrogen water is likely more effective than breathing hydrogen, but if you find studies proving otherwise you are welcome to share.

 

Ghrelin (pronounced /ˈɡrɛlɪn/), the "hunger hormone", also known as lenomorelin (INN), is a peptide hormone produced by ghrelinergic cells in the gastrointestinal tract^[1][2] which functions as a neuropeptide in the central nervous system.^[3]

 

When the stomach is empty, ghrelin is secreted. When the stomach is stretched, secretion stops

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghrelin

 

The jar lifting doesn't seem a very accurate measure of the hydrogen concentration in it, leave alone the leaking afterward.

 

You are likely getting some hydrogen but to state that you are getting precise numbers needs precise mensuration, Steamlover did, you didn't, therefore I would be careful to state your method allows for greater amounts to be "supplied to the blood stream" (which only a blood sample analysis can tell and I suspect even that wouldn't be very simple and accurate) when you don't even know the hydrogen concentration you are achieving in the glass.

 

The way you place the straw allows for leaking and there is no pressure whatsoever inside the glass, as you sip hydrogen out of it air has to replace it therefore with every sip your hydrogen content gets diluted more and more, in a very short time you are breathing air, not hydrogen or at least a very poor mixture of it getting poorer at each sip (and you don't actually know when there is no more hydrogen left, probably wasting time sipping just air).

 

Remember that hydrogen is totally odorless, if you still rely on taste to judge be aware you are not breathing just hydrogen and air (and i would not recommend to keep doing it). 

 

A better setting would be to drill a hole in the glass and to get the hydrogen from that, leaving the glass in the water, the water making for a water seal at the bottom and the weight of the glass providing some pressure, as you sip the glass sinks, no air will get inside, no major leaks, when the glass doesn't float anymore you know the hydrogen is gone (as is done on bigger scale in some biogas generators). 

 

But as now you know filtering is mandatory and your whole set up has to be rethink.

 

Hydrogen doesn't stay in open bottom container guarantee, I am not about to spend time to search for references, sorry.

[adamh]

aconita

>Ingesting - to take (food or liquid) into the body

 

The hydrogen is taken into the body, hence ingested. Did you read any of the links I gave? Your questions and doubts would be answered. 

 

>The jar lifting doesn't seem a very accurate measure of the hydrogen concentration in it, leave alone the leaking afterward.

 

You harp on accuracy and precision of measurement. Why is that important? Do you measure the dissolved h in your slop water? No? Then you are guilty of the sin of not measuring. The jar is full of water at the start, as I have said over and over. H displaces the water pushing it out of the jar so I can visually see the h gas and can calculate the volume using simple math.

 

>You are likely getting some hydrogen but to state that you are getting precise numbers needs precise mensuration,

 

Like I just said

 

>I would be careful to state your method allows for greater amounts to be "supplied to the blood stream" (which only a blood sample analysis can tell

 

Obviously you have read none of the literature I supplied or you would not need to say that.

 

>Remember that hydrogen is totally odorless, if you still rely on taste to judge be aware you are not breathing just hydrogen and air (and i would not recommend to keep doing it). 

 

As I've said several times, I rely on the "buzz" I get and the beneficial effects I am feeling which last well over 24 hours.

 

>But as now you know filtering is mandatory and your whole set up has to be rethink

 

Filtering of what? the h2? That makes no sense. Filtering the water you drink would make more sense.

 

>Hydrogen doesn't stay in open bottom container guarantee,

 

We should take your "guarantee"?

 

>I am not about to spend time to search for references, sorry.

 

That has become quite evident. You have not read any of the links, scientific studies and literature I have provided neither do you offer anything to back your claims.

 

aconita, I do not want to get into a big argument with you since it seems to come down to your opinions vs my links and experimental evidence. We are contributing little to the thread by keeping this going so I will stop replying to your posts unless and until you come up with some evidence to support your statements. No hard feelings, I just do not want to dilute the thread.

 

I shall do the aluminum experiment in the near future and report my results to the group.

[aconita]

I agree, lets stop this, you are not willing to objectively evaluate things and that's perfectly fine with me, who read this tread has enough evidence provided to make its own judgment.

 

Lets move forward.

[malbecman]

 Who said it can't be inhaled as a gas?  Several Pubmed studies mention it; here's a very recent one:

 

Curr Neuropharmacol. 2016 Jun 7. [Epub ahead of print]

Molecular Hydrogen as a Neuroprotective Agent.

Iketani M, Ohsawa I1.

 

Abstract

Oxidative stress and neuroinflammation cause many neurological disorders. Recently, it was reported that molecular hydrogen (H2) functions as an antioxidant and anti-inflammatory agent. The routes of H2 administration in animal model and human clinical studies are roughly classified into three types, inhalation of H2 gas, drinking H2-dissolved water, and injection of H2-dissolved saline. This review discusses some of the remarkable progress that has been made in the research of H2 use for neurological disorders, such as cerebrovascular diseases, neurodegenerative disorders, and neonatal brain disorders. Although most neurological disorders are currently incurable, these studies suggest the clinical potential of H2 administration for their prevention, treatment, and mitigation. Several of the potential effectors of H2 will also be discussed, including cell signaling molecules and hormones that are responsible for preventing oxidative stress and inflammation. Nevertheless, further investigation will be required to determine the direct target molecule of H2.

KEYWORDS: 

Brain injury; cerebrovascular disease; inflammation; molecular hydrogen; neonatal brain disorder; neurodegenerative disorder; oxidative stress.

PMID: 27281176

 This one is a comparison of the 3 routes of administration

 

Med Gas Res. 2015 Oct 26;5:13. doi: 10.1186/s13618-015-0034-2. eCollection 2015.

Convenient methods for ingestion of molecular hydrogen: drinking, injection, and inhalation.

Kurokawa R1, Seo T1, Sato B1, Hirano S1, Sato F1.

 

 

Abstract

Molecular hydrogen (H2) is clinically administered; however, in some hospitals, H2 is given to patients without consideration of its safe use. In the present study, we prepared convenient and safe devices for the drinking of super-saturated H2 water, for intravenous drip infusion of H2-rich saline, and for the inhalation of H2 gas. In order to provide useful information for researchers using these devices, the changes in H2 concentration were studied. Our experimental results should contribute to the advance of non-clinical and clinical research in H2 medicine. 

KEYWORDS: 

Hydrogen gas; Hydrogen water; Hydrogen-rich saline

PMID: 26504515

[aconita]

Who said it can't be inhaled as a gas?

 

Indeed, who ever said that?

 

Routes of administration are 5: drinking of super-saturated H2 water, for intravenous drip infusion of H2-rich saline, for the inhalation of H2 gas, for eye drops of H2-rich saline and for topical (both by H2 water or H2 gas filled bag).

 

Of which drinking H2 water seems to have the most effectiveness evidence in clinical trials but since it a relatively new thing none can be dismissed as a definitely inferior method yet.

 

Possibly different goals would be better achieved by different methods.

 

For practical reasons handling gasses is trickier than handling liquids and producing H2 medical grade gas by electrolysis not as straightforward as wished.

 

Since there are easier, safer and likely cheaper methods for both H2 gas and H2 water production might be smarter for most to focus on those.

 

Whom desires to experiment with electrolysis at least be aware of the possible pitfalls and makes sure to acquire the required knowledge in order to avoid unpleasant outcomes.

 

That's all, no wars, no hard feelings, no sterile criticisms, just an opportunity for everyone to learn from others experience.    

 

 

[TRUGAN]

I received my over priced stick yesterday from  http://gonegreenstor...CFQkwaQodZ-ECmQ

 

I didnt figure there would be much to it but wanted to see for myself while I wait for the real mag sticks to arrive.

 

Anyway, I let it sit in the bottle of water for 6 hours yesterday and it didnt seem to release much pressure when opened.

 

Today I decided to add malic acid and see if that would help any and it did. I could definitely tell it had more pressure. The screw type lid was harder to open and it popped up a little but didnt fly off as the threads were still holding it.

I used this bottle.....  https://www.amazon.c...ss water bottle

 

I still do not notice any benefit after drinking it.

 

I will keep playing with it till the magnesium rods arrive from China,

[adamh]

Malbecman, that is an excellent post. Many people could learn from it not only from the material presented but the way you supported your statements. You didn't just spout opinions you backed them with links and scientific evidence. That is how to debate, not opinion vs opinion but facts vs facts. Or at least evidence vs evidence.

 

Do not be concerned if you get doubted by negative opinions not backed by any evidence. You, and I as well, have put the information out there. There is a saying you can lead a horse to drink but...

 

I went ahead and did the aluminum foil and lye experiment. At first it was very slow since I had a low concentration of koh which seemed to be not enough. I added more and brought up the concentration some. It then began to produce gas faster than the electrolysis and I should have plenty for tonight.

 

Hydrogen will mix with air but its nature being lighter than nitrogen or any other gas makes it tend to rise. Keeping it in an upside down glass will keep it in at least for a reasonable time after lifting it from the solution until it all diffuses from the bottom. The hydrogen wants to go up so going down is opposite to what it wants. Since I put a cover over the bottom soon after taking if from the solution, it should remain highly concentrated and should give the results which it does indeed give.

 

With pure lye solution like they sell in the stores to clean drains, it would no doubt have reacted much more quickly and produced more heat. I didn't want that, slow is fine just not too slow.

[Hebbeh]

Good find Malbecman ..... table 4 tells the story .... note the Cmax ppb/g on the Y axis is scaled differently in each graph ...in table A the Cmax are in 100 ppb/g divisions to a max of 600 for oral hydrogen water and in table D the divisions are 20 ppb/g divisions to a max of 160 for inhaled hydrogen gas.

 

Figure 4

 

Cmax analysis of the hydrogen concentrations in different tissues.

Cmax (peak) of the hydrogen concentrations in the arterial blood and tissues of the liver, kidneys, heart, spleen, pancreas, intestines, muscles and brain after (A) the oral administration of 5 ppm of HSRW, (B) intraperitoneal administration of 5 ppm of HSRS, © intravenous administration of 5 ppm of HSRS and (D) inhalation of 4% hydrogen gas. In all experiments, the data were analyzed for more than three rats per group and expressed as the mean ± SEM. The actual number of rats is summarized in Supplemental Table 2.

 

[adamh]

mrwhitee, good luck with the rods and acid. Since you noticed some gas produced, you could experiment with the hydrogen itself. You might try carefully opening it after it has some pressure and breathing in the h, holding as long as it comfortable. I mentioned in one of my recent posts a way to capture the gas in an upside down glass or plastic container. Basically you have the glass full of solution and put it over the mg rods keeping the solution from all running out while you are doing it. I found that a little tricky, I wrote up my tec for overcoming that.

[TRUGAN]

Thanks, I will give that a try and see.

[hotbit]

 

[...] ..... table 4 tells the story .... note the Cmax ppb/g on the Y axis is scaled differently in each graph ...in table A the Cmax are in 100 ppb/g divisions to a max of 600 for oral hydrogen water and in table D the divisions are 20 ppb/g divisions to a max of 160 for inhaled hydrogen gas. [...]

 

 

This is very interesting. What I can't find in the article is 

- amount of the water rats drunk

- how long they were inhaling H₂

Without knowing these parameters it is not clear which method of delivery is better. 

Also - what is ppb/g ? Quite a strange unit.... I can't make sense of it.

 

This is good some people experiment with H₂ water and some with H₂ gas. From the article linked above - both methods deliver H₂ to several if not all tissues. Now what is left is to find methods of production that give cheap and high quality product.

-----
Some quick calculations:

Human body (70kg) consists of 7*10²⁷ atoms, 1 liter of H₂  ~ 0.044 * 6*10²³ particles.

Inhaling AND absorbing completely 1 liter of hydrogen gas would give
- mass fraction of ~ 0.0000006

- 9 atoms of hydrogen per million atoms in the body

(Calculations need a double check).

 

Edited by hotbit, 15 June 2016 - 12:37 PM.

[Hebbeh]

 

 

[...] ..... table 4 tells the story .... note the Cmax ppb/g on the Y axis is scaled differently in each graph ...in table A the Cmax are in 100 ppb/g divisions to a max of 600 for oral hydrogen water and in table D the divisions are 20 ppb/g divisions to a max of 160 for inhaled hydrogen gas. [...]

 

 

This is very interesting. What I can't find in the article is 

- amount of the water rats drunk

- how long they were inhaling H₂

Without knowing these parameters it is not clear which method of delivery is better. 

 

This is good some people experiment with H₂ water and some with H₂ gas. From the article linked above - both methods deliver H₂ to several if not all tissues. Now what is left is to find methods of production that give cheap and high quality product.

-----
Some quick calculations:

Human body (70kg) consists of 7*10²⁷ atoms, 1 liter of H₂  ~ 0.044 * 6*10²³ particles.

Inhaling AND absorbing completely 1 liter of hydrogen gas would give
- mass fraction of ~ 0.00006%

- 9 atoms of hydrogen per million atoms in the body

(Calculations need a double check).

 

 

True, I looked for the same parameters but it appears to be a very professionally conducted study and I have to believe they compared apples to apples.  And regardless, oral water achieved ~6 times greater concentration over gas inhalation in all tissues and organs except muscle and in respect to anti-aging, organs trump muscle but everybody can draw their own conclusions of course.

[amw]

What do you guys think of the Turapur Pitcher? For some reason I can't cut and paste, so you'll have to Google it, but it looks like it works along the same principles that some of you are describing. It's $40 and you have to subscribe to a cartridge refill program, which can be discontinued at any time, so they say.

[streamlover]

amw, there are many products like this out there with lot's of BS hype and very little substance. I bought this and these early on because their pitch sorta made sense and they price them so you don't need too much incentive to just say what the heck...I'll give it a try. And, since the placebo factor is working for all of us, they even get some good reviews for benefits. The "ionizer bottle" had no measurable H2 and the sticks produced a little (.1-.2ppms) for a while before they wore out. For that $40, you could get 6 rods, some vinegar or even a few lemons or malic acid and make some 2-3ppm water to give the protocol a real test.

 

I wish there were an independent agency testing all the crap products out there but it won't happen until H2 ingestion becomes more mainstream or at least more well-known by the alternative health crowd.

[TRUGAN]

What do you guys think of the Turapur Pitcher? For some reason I can't cut and paste, so you'll have to Google it, but it looks like it works along the same principles that some of you are describing. It's $40 and you have to subscribe to a cartridge refill program, which can be discontinued at any time, so they say.

 

 

I have a feeling it wont be any better than that stupid stick I bought. I think there is very little magnesium in these products so not enough surface area to produce much gas. I would buy the real mag sticks.

[streamlover]

mrwhitee, You are right about that and also Mg is actually hardly reactive at all with H2O at room temperature so all the water machine makers who claim H2 concentrations by putting some Mg in their filters are mostly just blowing smoke also. Mg will react with steam to produce H2 pretty vigorously and it reacts with boiling water to produce some H2 (about .3ppms I found when left for a few hours) but if you drop the rods in room temperature water, you will see practically no bubbles forming. I've considered doing the Mg rods alone to produce my regular drinking water because it doesn't produce any dissolved Mg salts...the reaction forms Mg(OH)2 which mostly ends up depositing on the rods...but I figured that concentration was so small as to not be worth the bother. Thinking about it now, I may give that a try for a week or so to see what I notice.