50 replies to this topic

[Castiel]

a bit off topic but isnt the best idea if to experiment on animals to try apes or monkeys because of the closest relation to humans?

 

I think gene expression tests on human cells are also a good idea.  We already have an idea of the gene expression patterns of CR, and know of several genes involved in the aging process.

 

if you like to know what I think is that it is unlikely that it will extent human life significantly or by now we should already noticed it.

 

Depends even if it drastically slowed the aging process, it likely won't stop tooth decay and might not stop lens decay.   Also we'd need to know what the adequate dose range is, and consistency in dosing.   Taking it from time to time when you're in pain will do nothing.   Under dosing or overdosing will likely either do nothing or be harmful.

 

Even at appropriate dosing, some aspects of aging like tooth decay are unlikely to be affected and could limit lifespan in ancient populations without adequate technology or medical support.   Also even if it did affect the aging process substantially a side effect could also limit potential lifespan increases.

 

It is not inconceivable that it hasn't ever been taken consistently at an adequate dose indefinitely.

[Robert Horley]

I think you have a good point Castiel with your comment: "It is not inconceivable that it hasn't ever been taken consistently at an adequate dose indefinitely."
In the capsulated form the recommended dose is much lower and to chew that much unpleasant bark every day would be a real struggle.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Thats not a problem Imagine that you are a goat, and chew your bark at a will

[Danail Bulgaria]

 

Unfortunately, testing a drug in people is not as easy as you want it to be.

It has to be proven not only for safety, but also for effectiveness (e.g. that really works for the thing you are taking it), side effects, how it combines with other drugs, etc. 

 

But noone stops you actually. 

 

If you believe, that it may help you, and you know its safe for you, then use it. 

 

 

Exactly, and now you are beginning to understand this website.

 

 

Stop being dumb and see the facts. You are ableto glu to any supplemet, that will pretend, that it will make your life longer, even though it is not tested properly in people.

 

This is dangerous

 

Here you are an autopsy of a simmilar idiot:

 

 

https://www.youtube....osCAB63YcZ4N1IG

 

 

Be happy!

[Robert Horley]

Except the actual suppliers of DHEA have a recommended dose of 25 mg, and recommend that women only take 5mg. If she was taking 7 times the male dose, it means she was taking 35 times the dose a woman should take. Since it is a potent pre-hormone which is converted into testosterone, no wonder she died. I actually new a woman who was taking testosterone to lose weight and she died from a massive stroke. DHEA is good for older people if given at the correct dosage... in fact my doctor has me on it legally.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Hormones as general are dangerous for taking them by yourself. They have cumulative effects, small difference between the dose, that help and the dose that kill, definately taking hormones is not like taking vitamins. Taking hormones has to be controlled from an endocrynologist.

 

I overreacted in my two previous posts by the way. I set angry on the PC, and laid it on you both Sorry.  

 

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

 

I think there was issue with the CR group, it seems to have lived for less than non CR if I'm not mistaken.
 

 

 

No, the CR group lived much longer than the piggy control group. And the white willow piggy group lived much longer than either control, and much longer than the white willow CR group.

 

 

Here is a link to the relevant bar chart where the black bar is control and PE21 is with white willow extract.

 

 

Turnbuckle,

 

Do you know if its would be because 2% glucose is the actual dose the yeast need ? For CR you need to feed at least the minimal intake of nutritional value. Otherwize i dont understand why it would decrease the lifespan that much ?

 

Also, what do you think about the ROS production increase ? This part is strange, because most of the time we try to actually fight it isnt ?

 

[9lives]

Hi Robert, it's very interesting that you're trying this supplement, and kudos to you for experimenting! I'm curious about it myself. While the results of the yeast study are encouraging, many of us would like to see more research. In lieu of a lifespan study, the next best approach that many researchers appear to be taking is testing for certain risk factors (cardiovascular, immune function, etc.). Do you have a benchmark for blood labs, and would you be willing to retest to check for any improvements in your health status?

[normalizing]

i tried to replace aspirin with willow bark, but its just not the same. there is a reason aspirin has taken over and completely annihilated the whole willow bark thing

[Skyguy2005]

 

I think there was issue with the CR group, it seems to have lived for less than non CR if I'm not mistaken.
 

 

 

No, the CR group lived much longer than the piggy control group. And the white willow piggy group lived much longer than either control, and much longer than the white willow CR group.

 

 

Here is a link to the relevant bar chart where the black bar is control and PE21 is with white willow extract.

 

 

I'm coming to believe that CR could be too much in combination with Ginkgo Biloba. This is PE8. One of the supplements (Ginkgo Biloba and Apium Graveleolens, whatever that is) that did great on pig, real life extension, but suffered badly on the 0.5% compared to controls. 

 

I was struggling even to make 20 BMI, with long term 1g EGB761 and 3 months eating frugally. I genuinely believe that if you take a lot of Ginkgo Biloba, you should pig a bit just to maintain weight. It really slims you to lean IMO. Now I eat pepperoni pizza 2x per week, curries etc (I still try and eat maybe half meals vegan) and I feel lean *and* have some (limited) muscle mass. 

 

Anyway obviously, the 475% for PE21 is mental. But the 0.5% bad in combination with some regimes makes sense, with my experience. I feel this particular notion tallies exactly with what I started to believe recently: I love my tea, Ginkgo, Reishi, yadda yadda, eat normally, and I can't really see that I would ever practice CR. Ever. I'd probably try eating more fatty fish... but that's it. 

Edited by Skyguy2005, 31 May 2016 - 08:57 PM.

[Harkijn]

 

 

Apium Graveleolens  whatever that is

 

 

Skyguy: Apium is good old celery. When using fresh celery in my cooking its tangy touch gives the meal a 'healthy' flavour. And shrub celery stalks are great to take with you on a hike. Btw, some people are allergic to salsalates.

 

I like a heated discussion but so far I only see confirmed that eating a sober plantbased diet has many advantages.

[Harkijn]

If you search Pubmed for celery you will find a lot of interesting info but you might overlook this one:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4281445/

 

Quote:

 

3.1. Apium graveolens Linn

Apium graveolens Linn. (family: Apiaceae) locally known as “Karfas” is a biennial or perennial glabrous herb with a heavy aromatic smell found in Najd region of Saudi Arabia [6]. Seeds of A. graveolens have been widely used in traditional medicine for the treatment of liver and spleen disorders, jaundice [7], rheumatism, gout, and other inflammatory diseases [8, 9].

The hepatoprotective activity of the methanolic extract of A. graveolens seed has been studied against CCl4 [10, 11] and paracetamol [11, 12] induced liver damage. A. graveolens extract dose dependently attenuated the toxin induced biochemical (serum AST, ALT, APT, TP, and albumin) and histopathological changes in liver tissues. The protective activity of A. graveolens was comparable with silymarin a well-established hepatoprotective herbal drug [10, 12]. Acute toxicity studies on A. graveolens extract in rats showed no adverse symptoms. Lethal dose in 50% of rats (LD50) was found to be of 7.5 g/kg body weight (b.w.) clearly suggesting its large margin of safety [12]. Chronic toxicity studies on the extract also revealed no delirious effect or mortality over a period of 14 days [13].

The hepatoprotective effect of A. graveolens Linn. may be attributed to its anti-inflammatory [14] and antioxidant activities [15]. Phytochemical screening showed the presence of flavonoids, tannins, volatile oils, alkaloids, sterols, and triterpenes. Detailed chemical studies also showed the presence of limonene, p-dimethyl styrene, N-pertyl benzene, caryophyllene, α-selinene, N-butyl phthalide, and sedanenolide [13].

[Skyguy2005]

I'm gonna try Willow bark. 

 

But someone explain something if possible: Willow Bark activates AMPK. Ginkgo Biloba, Valyrian Root, Apium Graveolens, Passiflora Incarnata and Hoojamaflip Blabbadyblip activate AMPK. Out of the 31 Camellia Sinensis, Fo Ti, Ginseng etc. activate AMPK. So surely "AMPK" does not explain the discrepancy... I understand that life is complicated. 

[Skyguy2005]

Actually, the study made me think about Gotu Kola. This is a famous Chinese medicinal related to celery. It wasn't tested, however it does have something of a traditional reputation. I experienced some nice dreams using it IIRC. FYI: Roughly the order of efficacy was (Willow Bark, Celery Seed, Ginkgo Biloba, Black Cohosh, Valyrian Root, Purple Passionflower). 

Edited by Skyguy2005, 01 June 2016 - 04:24 PM.

[normalizing]

black cohosh felt like a mild benzo in slightly higher dose than normal but nobody ever mentions this effect

[Castiel]

 

The words in bold reinforce the finding for yeast, and suggest that CR is a mistake. As long as the effects of obesity are avoided, food and aspirin (or salicin) could be a winner.

 

It depends, what level of CR are we talking about?  High levels are probably not a good idea, as I've heard they might affect long term bone structure in humans.  But more moderate CR say 10-25% shouldn't be an issue and might not interfere with these substances.

 

CR combines with rhodiola in some species to give even more life extension.

 

 

The point is, salacin is not toxic to humans or to yeast or to crickets, and they all have mitochondria where salacin appears to operate, thus its effect on these other animals is relevant, and that is why animals studies are done to begin with. You are arguing just to argue, it seems, as you aren't disagreeing, just saying it's a vague indication. But it's far more than that--two very different species that had the same longevity effect in the same way that contradicts what has been believed in the LE community. This is hardly vague.

 

 

Well it might depend on the dose,  High dose chronic aspirin can supposedly lead to kidney injury and can also require vitamin k supplementation to avoid adversely affecting clotting ability.  So if it requires a high dose we'd need to find what the highest safe dose is, and if it requires pairing with another protective compound to be used at effective doses.

 

As you say aspirin is used by millions of people all over the world since quite a while and willow bark since at least 2400 years ago, if you like to know what I think is that it is unlikely that it will extent human life significantly or by now we should already noticed it.

 

As said previously dose is important, over or under dosing will not result in positive results.   Some say high dose requires vitamin k supplementation, and chronic high dose of aspirin could supposedly affect kidney function, iirc.   Without standardized extracts or doses(assuming aspirin were equally effective without the other chemicals in willow), it can't be known what your daily dosing is, and this is the reality of the history of this compound.

 

But the aging process is very fundamental, if something affects the aging process in multiple species it is highly promising, and should be tested on human cells, and higher animals.
 

[normalizing]

 was taking willow bark for a while and didnt feel anything, then i took a tiny dose of aspirin and made a whole lot of difference. ah, the modern medicine invention, who could live without

[sthira]

was taking willow bark for a while and didnt feel anything, then i took a tiny dose of aspirin and made a whole lot of difference. ah, the modern medicine invention, who could live without

This parallels my experience, too. I took white willow bark for a few months (several bottles) and "felt nothing..." meaning it didn't decrease inflammation nearly as well as OTC ibuprofen. Modern pharma seems to offer us pretty good anti-inflammatories, but of course they also come with often scary side effects (like bleeding...) So while anti-inflammatories like white willow bark, curcumin, bromelian, ginger, et al, may be more "natural" they're also not generally standardized, don't seem to work as well, but also don't come with as serious side effects. But anything we put into our bodies will have side effects, whether we're sensitive enough to notice those is another issue.

[fntms]

I tried a low dose of the non alcoholic liquid extract and had to stop because it upset my stomach. Didn't see any benefits either. I was surprised that the extract did not have the typical pungent smell of methyl salicylate though.
But in any case you can't use this stuff long term, even applying the methyl salicylate creams is not safe for more than a few days (unfortunately because they can be quite effective. I had a bad reaction recently, tinnitus, confusion, had been applying the cream for quite a while...)

[mrak1979]

Anybody know if willow bark needs to be cycled? And what is the optimal daily dosage? thx

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

I tried a low dose of the non alcoholic liquid extract and had to stop because it upset my stomach. Didn't see any benefits either. I was surprised that the extract did not have the typical pungent smell of methyl salicylate though.
But in any case you can't use this stuff long term, even applying the methyl salicylate creams is not safe for more than a few days (unfortunately because they can be quite effective. I had a bad reaction recently, tinnitus, confusion, had been applying the cream for quite a while...)

 

It can be due to numerous things... I use my dynveo willow bark extract and do not have any problem, but we do careful to many things including the fillers / blenders free formula for instance..

 

I dont think there is any problem with willow bark extract at a daily dose of 500mg per day actually.