364 replies to this topic

[gamesguru]

Testosterone and cognitive function: current clinical evidence of a relationship.

CONCLUSIONS:

low endogenous levels of testosterone may be related to reduced cognitive ability

 

Testosterone and coronary artery disease.

low testosterone levels are also associated with other cardiovascular risk factors and increased expression of mediators of the atherosclerotic process. This in itself suggests that testosterone does not promote atheroma formation

 

Testosterone and depression: systematic review and meta-analysis.

CONCLUSIONS:

Testosterone replacement therapy may have an antidepressant effect in depressed patients, especially those with hypogonadism or HIV/AIDS and elderly subpopulations.

 

Testosterone in first-episode schizophrenia.

OBJECTIVE:

Low testosterone is associated with negative symptoms in chronic schizophrenia.

increases T above baseline

• ginger, 10g (+17.7%, unknown mechanism) [1]
• intense exercise, squat (+15.1%) [2]
• high saturated and monounsaturated fat (low fiber and polyunsaturated fat) [2b]
• DHEA, 200mg (found in wild yams, precursor)
• ginkgo [3]

only normalizes deficiencies

• tribulus [1]
• zinc (oysters) [2]
  • deficiencies in other minerals may affect T levels
• vitamin d2 (irradiated mushrooms)

 

======================

======================

5-α-reductase inhibitors

• populus nigra flavonoids [1]
• fenugreek, 500mg
• others

aromatase inhibitors

• button mushrooms [1]
• grape seed extract [1b]

17β-HSD inhibitors (avoid)

• green tea [1]
• coumarin [2]
• glycyrrhetinic acid [3]

17β-HSD promoters

• (or misc T boosters)

cortisol inhibitors [!]

• phosphatidylserine [1]
• rhodiola [2]
• schizandra [2b]
• bryonia alba [3]

======================

======================

im working on an estrogen thread to explain its cooperation with IGF-1 in breast development, natural boosters, and ideas on phytoestrogens and antiestrogens.

[Baten]

No love for aspartic acid?

[gamesguru]

haha nice find! any contributions are welcome.

from examine.com

 

D-ASPARTIC ACID

D-Aspartic Acid causes increases in testosterone synthesis via upregulation of the mRNA that produces a compound called StAR (Stimulating steroidogonic Acute Regulatory Protein) which regulates androgen synthesis in the Leydig cells.[51] The secretion of hypothalamic LH (from the neurally active excess of NMDA) also induces testosterone synthesis in the leydig cells and may be mechanism by which D-Aspartic Acid influences testosterone synthesis.[17][11]

D-aspartic acid may be able to directly increased testosterone synthesis, secondary to increasing the activity of the StAR enzyme, and indirectly via stimulating hypothalamic release of luteinizing hormone [sic]

 

 

BULBINE NATALENSIS

Other studies looking at testosterone levels note increases of up to 346% of control level in male rats at 50mg/kg bodyweight,[5] although 100mg/kg has been associated with a non-significant decline in testosterone levels below control.[5][3]

Testosterone is reliably enhanced in rats, and fairly potently as well. However, the higher dosages of 100mg/kg appear to be either as potent at 25mg/kg or worse than nothing at all, decreasing testosterone. Dose is very important here, and a toxicological bell curve exists

 

 

NICOTINE

Luteinizing Hormone and Follicle-Stimulating hormone appear to be reduced by 40% and 28%, respectively, when rats are given 0.6mg/100g bodyweight nicotine for 12 weeks.[197]

One human study measuring LH for 2 hours after 15.48mg nicotine (smoked in dependent smokers) noted that LH spiked within 14 minutes of smoking a cigarette and was highly correlated (r=0.642) with serum nicotine levels.

 

 

hCG is synthetic and im not recommending it even short-term, but it could also boost LH.  maybe something natural to boost hCG would be too insignificant, but things that boost GnRH are very helpful.

caffeine appears to lower LH but increase testosterone (remember to convert the dose from rabbits to humans).  i also found a few active flavonoids, and some amino acids.

Hormonal and histological effects of chronic caffeine administration on the pituitary-gonadal and pituitary-adrenocortical axes in male rabbits.

Daily administration of caffeine (30 or 60 mg/kg) to mature male rabbits for four consecutive weeks caused an increase in the plasma follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and a decrease in the luteinizing hormone (LH). Testosterone was increased with the higher dose only while adrenocorticotrophic hormone (ACTH) was not altered by either one

 

Regulation of gonadotropin-releasing hormone gene expression by the excitatory amino acids kainic acid and N-methyl-D,L-aspartate in the male rat.

 

Effect of leptin on hypothalamic release of GnRH and neurotransmitter amino acids during sexual maturation in female rats.

Edited by gamesguru, 17 April 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[normalizing]

does yohimbine work on testosterone at all? it seems to be a potent aphrodisiac i thought it might have effect on testosterone or its just mind stimulation...

[gamesguru]

from examine.com:

Yohimbine intervention at 5.4 or 10.8mg in otherwise healthy men with organic erectile dysfunction failed to influence testosterone.^[85]

The increase in sexual desire seen from Yohimbine does not appear to be related to testosterone,^[34] although at least one human study has noted that the response to pro-erectile properties of yohimbine is weakly associated with free testosterone.^[85]

 

 

btw guys im also working on threads/stacks for ED and low libido, premature ejac, and social anxiety. 

[sativa]

btw guys im also working on threads/stacks for ED and low libido, premature ejac, and social anxiety.

Abnormally high Prolactin levels could be involved with some of those? (it has an inverse relationship with dopamine)

Also regarding social anxiety, a dysfunctional gut flora could be a contributing factor due to production(or lack thereof) of aromatic amino acids and also HT1A receptor over activation.

Edited by sativa, 19 April 2016 - 07:54 PM.

[birthdaysuit]

Does creatine raise testosterone levels? And are you done drinking the Sencha tea?

 

Also, in my understanding I believe abstaining from masturbation markedly raises testosterone levels above baseline past the 7 day mark but slowly drops back to baseline again.

[gamesguru]

does sex also blunt test levels, perhaps the exaggerated oxytocin release reduces dopamine blunting? i'm trying to just do it every 3 weeks, but the hos aint always wit it. i wonder if it like fluctuates every 7-9 days, so by the 14th or 18th day you're peaking again. in any case, i don't think it matters much (like the tea, which i never stopped drinking). ive lost 10 lbs 175 -> 165 due to poverty, laziness. not enough workouts or food. the hos don't care, i don't care. i'm more interested now in the mental effects of high T (e.g. confidence vs anxiety), and here, i kind of think any negative effect of green tea is balanced out by its many positives. after making this post i came across a contradictory study^[1], so i really don't know what to tell you. i like tea tho. and i would focus on stuff like ejaculatory latency and social anxiety moreso, which i'm suuuupposed to be making threads on  

[PeaceAndProsperity]

A lot of things on paper increase test. levels but in reality they're completely useless and you might as well just get the injections if you're that wanting. Even moderate injection dosages can often not be felt. Then there are things that sort of work but only lead to hypersexuality (masturbation during sleep) but virtually nothing else. 

Just look at bodybuilders who inject more than 10 times their normal production (1g cypionate), and all they get is athletics related and sex related. They don't become any smarter or more cognitively functioning than they already are. I don't even think their spatial iq improves whatsoever. Heck, even their personality may not change for the better.

 

I started exercising for the very reason of fixing muscular imbalances and cognitive function, because I too believed that it would help. The exercise actually depletes testosterone, I found out about. Then I tried very mild prohormones and they were basically useless and a waste of money (including megadoses of dhea). Then I tried pharmaceuticals like clomiphene and they do work but they likewise are basically useless, they don't change much other than promote hypersexuality.

 

The thing that works the best, probably by sensitizing androgen receptors, is simply sexual abstinence. Some people claim it doesn't work but then that's because they were not frequent masturbators to begin with, but a majority of Western men are.

[multispeedo]

Great post, thanks gamesguru!!!

I've been using this one.

 

Complete garbage, I have tried that one before too.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 09 April 2024 - 08:53 PM.

[birthdaysuit]

A lot of things on paper increase test. levels but in reality they're completely useless and you might as well just get the injections if you're that wanting. Even moderate injection dosages can often not be felt. Then there are things that sort of work but only lead to hypersexuality (masturbation during sleep) but virtually nothing else. 

Just look at bodybuilders who inject more than 10 times their normal production (1g cypionate), and all they get is athletics related and sex related. They don't become any smarter or more cognitively functioning than they already are. I don't even think their spatial iq improves whatsoever. Heck, even their personality may not change for the better.

 

I started exercising for the very reason of fixing muscular imbalances and cognitive function, because I too believed that it would help. The exercise actually depletes testosterone, I found out about. Then I tried very mild prohormones and they were basically useless and a waste of money (including megadoses of dhea). Then I tried pharmaceuticals like clomiphene and they do work but they likewise are basically useless, they don't change much other than promote hypersexuality.

 

The thing that works the best, probably by sensitizing androgen receptors, is simply sexual abstinence. Some people claim it doesn't work but then that's because they were not frequent masturbators to begin with, but a majority of Western men are.

 

So abstaining from masturbation will re-sensitize androgen receptors, I've read a few other studies that abstinence can re-sensitize D2 receptors as well. I have abstained from masturbation for a full month during a game of nofap with my friends, jk. But I have abstained and in the last week of abstaining I felt absolutely amazing. Full of energy, witty and relatively happy, despite having Lyme disease. 
 

[birthdaysuit]

does sex also blunt test levels, perhaps the exaggerated oxytocin release reduces dopamine blunting? i'm trying to just do it every 3 weeks, but the hos aint always wit it. i wonder if it like fluctuates every 7-9 days, so by the 14th or 18th day you're peaking again. in any case, i don't think it matters much (like the tea, which i never stopped drinking). ive lost 10 lbs 175 -> 165 due to poverty, laziness. not enough workouts or food. the hos don't care, i don't care. i'm more interested now in the mental effects of high T (e.g. confidence vs anxiety), and here, i kind of think any negative effect of green tea is balanced out by its many positives. after making this post i came across a contradictory study^[1], so i really don't know what to tell you. i like tea tho. and i would focus on stuff like ejaculatory latency and social anxiety moreso, which i'm suuuupposed to be making threads on

 

Yeah, I agree the Polyphenols in green tea have many novel approaches to attenuate the symptoms of neurodegenerative disorders. The only reason I drink Sencha tea is because it inhibits Quinolinic acid and also reduces 3-nitrotyrosine production, lessen QUIN Ca2+ influx and prevent PARP-1 activation. Mechanisms that I need because of my Lyme. There's even a study that concludes that Green Tea increases duration of antibiotics and makes them more effective. There are too many benefits to throw it in the trash.

 

[gamesguru]

You could write a multi-shelf encyclopedia just on green tea.  I wonder how it affects that though.  My first thought was grapefruit and liver enzymes, but it's just medicines, doesn't affect supplement pharmacokinetics (too much).

 

Another interesting point is adding lemon juice before the brew, it increases the solubility of the alkaloids quite significantly.  Like three times^[1].

 

Back on topic, two other testosterone boosting supplements. Chrysin and DIM. The first quote is from examine.com, and it seems dismissive.  By acting as an antagonist, the DIM may function to increase androgen receptor levels over time.

Chrysin appears to be able to inhibit a protein known as DAX-1, which is a negative regulator of the StAR protein (rate limit in testosterone synthesis[14]) resulting in an upregulation of StAR and testosterone synthesis (also can be seen as a 'sensitization' of the testes to stimulated testosterone production);[15] the suppression of COX2 from chrysin may also play a role, as COX2 is known to be a negative regulator of StAR.[16] This effect was only seen at concentrations of 5µM or higher,[15] which is over 70-fold higher than the detectable serum concentrations from 400mg oral chrysin ingestion.[4]

Similar to D-Aspartic Acid, Chrysin's molecular target appears to be the StAR protein. However, rather than directly stimulating this protein's actions chrysin reduces the influence of negative regulators and causes an indirect increase in StAR activity

--------------

Plant-derived 3,3'-Diindolylmethane is a strong androgen antagonist in human prostate cancer cells.
Le HT1, Schaldach CM, Firestone GL, Bjeldanes LF. (2003)

3,3'-Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a major digestive product of indole-3-carbinol, a potential anticancer component of cruciferous vegetables. Our results indicate that DIM exhibits potent antiproliferative and antiandrogenic properties in androgen-dependent human prostate cancer cells. DIM suppresses cell proliferation of LNCaP cells and inhibits dihydrotestosterone (DHT) stimulation of DNA synthesis. These activities were not produced in androgen-independent PC-3 cells. Moreover, DIM inhibited endogenous PSA transcription and reduced intracellular and secreted PSA protein levels induced by DHT in LNCaP cells. Also, DIM inhibited, in a concentration-dependent manner, the DHT-induced expression of a prostate-specific antigen promoter-regulated reporter gene construct in transiently transfected LNCaP cells. Similar effects of DIM were observed in PC-3 cells only when these cells were co-transfected with a wild-type androgen receptor expression plasmid. Using fluorescence imaging with green fluorescent protein androgen receptor and Western blot analysis, we demonstrated that DIM inhibited androgen-induced androgen receptor (AR) translocation into the nucleus. Results of receptor binding assays indicated further that DIM is a strong competitive inhibitor of DHT binding to the AR. Results of structural modeling studies showed that DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist, although the atomic compositions of the two substances are quite different. Taken together with our published reports of the estrogen agonist activities of DIM, the present results establish DIM as a unique bifunctional hormone disrupter. To our knowledge, DIM is the first example of a pure androgen receptor antagonist from plants.

Edited by gamesguru, 18 July 2016 - 02:52 PM.

[normalizing]

if green tea was so amazing, i will be superman now. i drank more green tea than water in the past 10 years, and currently i never felt worst

[gamesguru]

correlation does not imply causation. also who's your supplier? i'd like to have a word with him   (plz don't say Lipton)

[normalizing]

gamesguru, when i was 15 maybe i was drinking the crappy types but cmon man, i have vast experience here. and let me just say that lipton redeemed themselves recently with their newly launched Pure Leaf Tea, Unsweetened tea bottle products which surprisingly as it is do have the experience of good tea so lets be kinder to them for a change

[birthdaysuit]

gamesguru, when i was 15 maybe i was drinking the crappy types but cmon man, i have vast experience here. and let me just say that lipton redeemed themselves recently with their newly launched Pure Leaf Tea, Unsweetened tea bottle products which surprisingly as it is do have the experience of good tea so lets be kinder to them for a change

but Lipton is made with those old fluoride leaves

[gamesguru]

so... are you saying you drink Pure Leaf Tea, or another? anything canned tends to have barely 50% the polyphenol and 10% the theanine content, basically it's way less medicinal (with more flouride to boot!) if youre on the Pure Leaf Tea, it's easy to explain your weak, malaised feeling. but just be willing to try a tea that costs a little more than pennies on the cup... e.g. $15/100g

Attached Files

•  theanine.jpg   39.82KB   14 downloads

[normalizing]

uh no im not on the lipton tea *face slap* i just said their new bottled tea that they introduced actually is pretty good if you try it but i tried it just few times thats all. i was drinking predominantly japanese tea sencha most of my time, some gyokuro (never felt that one) and maybe once a while various tea bags on and off usually pekoe. and for theanine, i was taking high doses pill form for a while to relax but it never really worked. it probably works for super sensitive people or something not sure just seems exaggerated compound. anyway its hard to discuss things with you, you misunderstand a lot

Edited by normalizing, 19 July 2016 - 06:00 PM.

[gamesguru]

To be great is to be misunderstood. So you all must be great.

And as i said earlier, correlation doesn't imply causation. just cause you're feeling lousy doesn't mean green tea isn't helping (somewhat)

[jack black]

Weird, I couldn't quote the first post.

 

 

DHEA, 200mg (found in wild yams, precursor)

zinc (oysters) [2]

vitamin d2 (irradiated mushrooms)

grape seed extract

phosphatidylserine

 

 

I tried DHEA for many months, but in a smaller dose, and there was no subjective or objective difference (same low T levels pre and post)

Zinc supplements make me nauseous.

I did vit D3 5,000IU for a year and there was no subjective or objective difference.

I tried grape seed extract for many months and there was no subjective or objective difference.

I could not tolerate phosphatidylserine, made me tired.

 

 

 

 

 

hCG is synthetic and im not recommending it even short-term, but it could also boost LH.  maybe something natural to boost hCG would be too insignificant, but things that boost GnRH are very helpful.

caffeine appears to lower LH but increase testosterone (remember to convert the dose from rabbits to humans).  i also found a few active flavonoids, and some amino acids.

Hormonal and histological effects of chronic caffeine administration on the pituitary-gonadal and pituitary-adrenocortical axes in male rabbits.

Daily administration of caffeine (30 or 60 mg/kg) to mature male rabbits for four consecutive weeks caused an increase in the plasma follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and a decrease in the luteinizing hormone (LH). Testosterone was increased with the higher dose only while adrenocorticotrophic hormone (ACTH) was not altered by either one

 

 

 

HCG is not synthetic, it's derived from urine of pregnant ladies. I did that at low doses 150IU/day and that helped with T and lost some weight too, but eventually got tired of daily injections. I recently started clomifen 25mg and it helps but i'm gaining weight :-(

 

As for caffeine, I self medicated with coffee all my life and that didn't prevent low T, so I'm doubtful.

 

So much for all that stuff one can find on internet.

 

However the results from NoFap (where did the name come from) seem legit (from my reading, hard to do myself while married).

Edited by jack black, 21 July 2016 - 03:27 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

HCG is not synthetic, it's derived from urine of pregnant ladies. I did that at low doses 150IU/day and that helped with T and lost some weight too, but eventually got tired of daily injections. I recently started clomifen 25mg and it helps but i'm gaining weight :-(

 

As for caffeine, I self medicated with coffee all my life and that didn't prevent low T, so I'm doubtful.

 

So much for all that stuff one can find on internet.

 

However the results from NoFap (where did the name come from) seem legit (from my reading, hard to do myself while married).

Sexual abstinence (in the widest sense of the word) increases dopamine and androgen receptor sensitivity. I believe that's almost all there's to it.

 

For those of you who buy things that are E-LEE-GAL to try to boost testosterone levels, just buy the real thing and don't bother with the other stuff. 

Were you prescribed clomiphene or did you buy it to experiment with it on your lab rat? If you weren't prescribed it, why not just go for the real stuff? Same goes for hcg.

[jack black]

For those of you who buy things that are E-LEE-GAL to try to boost testosterone levels, just buy the real thing and don't bother with the other stuff. 

Were you prescribed clomiphene or did you buy it to experiment with it on your lab rat? If you weren't prescribed it, why not just go for the real stuff? Same goes for hcg.

 

 

Are you talking about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? I was prescribed the super expensive dermal gel TRT and it did nothing for me. I decided against injecting T, as it shrinks the balls and I'm not a fan of IM injections. After a lot of reading I decided HCG is the best option. I still believe that, the subQ injections are painless, and I should have continued. I just learned that clomiphene increases LH and that increases cortisol. So, I'm going to lower the dose and add ashwagadha. If that doesn't work, I'm going back to HCG. Life with low T sucks.

Edited by jack black, 21 July 2016 - 04:49 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

 

For those of you who buy things that are E-LEE-GAL to try to boost testosterone levels, just buy the real thing and don't bother with the other stuff. 

Were you prescribed clomiphene or did you buy it to experiment with it on your lab rat? If you weren't prescribed it, why not just go for the real stuff? Same goes for hcg.

 

 

Are you talking about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? I was prescribed the super expensive dermal gel TRT and it did nothing for me. I decided against injecting T, as it shrinks the balls and I'm not a fan of IM injections. After a lot of reading I decided HCG is the best option. I still believe that, the subQ injections are painless, and I should have continued. I just learned that clomiphene increases LH and that increases cortisol. So, I'm going to lower the dose and add ashwagadha. If that doesn't work, I'm going back to HCG. Life with low T sucks.

 

Inject SubQ test. and do so with hcg. This way your testicles grow while you are injecting yourself with testosterone. I am not going to bother pulling out the studies

[normalizing]

jackblack, may i ask how old are you? if you are in a particular age, whats your concern for low T, unless of course you are still quite young and hope to impregnant few more women in your life that is.

anyway, read this; http://www.cnn.com/2...nuchs-lifespan/ and relax

[gamesguru]

I would try the aggressive stack then. Ginger, exercise, high fat, button shrooms, ginkgo. Maybe also ones mentioned in later posts like aspartic acid or DIM?

One reason these supplementa might not work in humans is the huge dose used in rodent studies. While I did post this topic prematurely and just wanted to get the information out there before I had a grasp of it all... I can assure you the ginger was studied in physiologically attainable concentrations. For us, like 10g wet root daily. It is also one of the more potent products mentioned, inducing a near 18% increase.

[NinefingerJoe]

What about Boron supplementation?

https://examine.com/supplements/boron/

I've been taking a boron citrate (100mg claimed to provide 15mg of active boron) supplement for a few weeks now and it has helped with my anorgasmia.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

What about Boron supplementation?

https://examine.com/supplements/boron/

I've been taking a boron citrate (100mg claimed to provide 15mg of active boron) supplement for a few weeks now and it has helped with my anorgasmia.

I take Swanson's triple boron complex and it does indeed increase androgens. But unlike zinc it does more than just cause hypersexuality, it also has some positive effects on the mood (my experience).

[jack black]

jackblack, may i ask how old are you? if you are in a particular age, whats your concern for low T, unless of course you are still quite young and hope to impregnant few more women in your life that is.

anyway, read this; http://www.cnn.com/2...nuchs-lifespan/ and relax

 

i'm in a 40-50 age range with T levels of 250-270. very low energy levels in the last 17 years. initially misdiagnosed as depression and treated for years with SSRI which made me much worse (loss of motivation, weight gain and zero libido). as for castrating myself, no thanks.

 

I would try the aggressive stack then. Ginger, exercise, high fat, button shrooms, ginkgo. Maybe also ones mentioned in later posts like aspartic acid or DIM?
 

 

I checked that aspartic acid and it only worked for infertile men? https://examine.com/...-Aspartic Acid/

 

What about Boron supplementation?

https://examine.com/supplements/boron/

I've been taking a boron citrate (100mg claimed to provide 15mg of active boron) supplement for a few weeks now and it has helped with my anorgasmia.

 

Interesting. Reading that link is not convincing though.

 

I take Swanson's triple boron complex and it does indeed increase androgens. But unlike zinc it does more than just cause hypersexuality, it also has some positive effects on the mood (my experience).

 

 

 

did you do any lab tests? it would be nice to see numbers besides the subjective feeling (not that I don't trust you).

Edited by jack black, 22 July 2016 - 03:42 AM.

[gamesguru]

Well... just stick to the core group then, and thanks for double checking. The ginkgo may also help with any persisting tingles from the SSRI. Boron is well-studied on free testosterone. Altogether, the core stack should get you up to around 330-350 within a month.

 

Other suggestions I am just reading about for the first time include brazil nuts (or selenium), eurycoma longifolia (+33%), and onion juice (+30%). You might be able to break 400.

I’m eating a handful of Brazil nuts daily, and Tim Ferriss who [reportedly] sports a testosterone level of 1200+ ng/dl mentions them in his quick “triple your testosterone guide“…