364 replies to this topic

[PeaceAndProsperity]

did you do any lab tests? it would be nice to see numbers besides the subjective feeling (not that I don't trust you).

 

You don't need a lab test to know, there are really only a few possibilities and if you can exclude the rest then there is only one left. 

[sativa]

Boron affects DHT levels. I consume it in my water daily.

Also of possible interest is GABA(b) receptor which releases HGH for a few hours after activation.

Edited by sativa, 22 July 2016 - 02:07 PM.

[gamesguru]

alcohol hits GABA_B!? but long-term I expect to see the opposite, HGH blunting. it's just a short-term band-aid.

 

HGH is also ineffective without IGF-1, but I was planning to save all this for another thread.

[sativa]

Indeed, but perhaps a GABA transaminase inhibitor would be more suited, or glutamine.

[gamesguru]

rosmarinic acid received a lot of attention in another thread for its first-rate inhibition of glycation (AGEs). it's also a potent GABA-T inhibitor... but the long-term tolerance concern is the same, as is witdrawal when you quit. it's also difficult to find a good source, maybe have to buy bulk rosemary and run an extract.

a GABA-B antagonist is actually more suited to this task long-term, such as ginseng or 5-aminovaleric acid (the body produces this from L-lysine)

but it's not good to get on too much of a tangent. something like ginger and onion juice is more direct, and enduring the awful spicy sensations might be enough to make you think it has to be working (placebo effect)

[normalizing]

sure, refer him to the onion juice thread where everyone was daring the other to drink onion juice for a week and report the results but everyone was scared to do so.

[sativa]

Re boron, it reduces sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) count and also enhances vitamin D absorption; Vitamin D has been shown to increase T.

I guess its natural in a sense that its naturally occurring in food, as long as said food wasn't grown in boron depleted soil...which seems to be prevalent in many places.

Boron in plasma increased significantly following hours and weekly consumption. Six hours supplementation showed a significant decrease on sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), high sensitive CRP (hsCRP) and TNF-α level.

After one week (in samples taken at 8.00 A.M, only), the mean plasma free testosterone increased and the mean plasma estradiol decreased significantly.

Dihydrotestosterone, cortisol and vitamin D was elevated.

Also, concentrations of all three inflammatory biomarkers decreased after supplementation.

Of note, despite decreased proinflammatory cytokines, based on recent clinical data, this must be the first human study report to show an increase level of free testosterone after boron consumption.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941

Another boron paper with more data:

http://www.bioimmers...e_monograph.pdf

rosmarinic acid received a lot of attention in another thread for its first-rate inhibition of glycation (AGEs). it's also a potent GABA-T inhibitor... but the long-term tolerance concern is the same, as is witdrawal when you quit.
...
a GABA-B antagonist is actually more suited to this task long-term, such as ginseng or 5-aminovaleric acid (the body produces this from L-lysine)

but it's not good to get on too much of a tangent. something like ginger and onion juice is more direct...

Indeed withdrawal/tolerance and down regulator is an issue longterm.

That's interesting, I did not know this about lysine.
As an aside, lysine can also be metabolised by bacteria into piperidine which can form bio active abducts with aldehydes. So supplementing with lysine and consuming alcohol (increases acetalaldehyde) or any aldehyde or aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibitors might cause unexpected psychoactive effects.

Yes, onion juice and ginger seem like apt time tested methods. I dont really eat ginger as it doesn't suit my bodies constitution (in a TCM sense) and in a western sense, it can inhibit digestion when eaten with food.

Regarding onion juice, I have other preferred "less pungent" methods for upping T but am very familiar with it's beneficial testosterone boosting effects.

Edited by sativa, 22 July 2016 - 06:05 PM.

[David Middlemiss]

I would try the aggressive stack then. Ginger, exercise, high fat, button shrooms, ginkgo. Maybe also ones mentioned in later posts like aspartic acid or DIM?

One reason these supplementa might not work in humans is the huge dose used in rodent studies. While I did post this topic prematurely and just wanted to get the information out there before I had a grasp of it all... I can assure you the ginger was studied in physiologically attainable concentrations. For us, like 10g wet root daily. It is also one of the more potent products mentioned, inducing a near 18% increase.

I had taken Tong Kat Ali an Asian herb root, as a testosterone booster as was feeling lethargic and managed to buy from a Thai company on eBay a few years ago, it was amazingly good at boosting energy and sexual desire plus aiding erection, had a side affect of clearing sinuses also, tasted horrendous although If encapsulated it's fine,

[gamesguru]

If you weren't prescribed it, why not just go for the real stuff? Same goes for hcg.

i'm not too cozy with the idea of weekly injections for life. even if it's into my stomach fat.

 

Even moderate injection dosages can often not be felt

Depends on the individual. Years back, my uncle had a severe skin reaction to the patches, and then from just 67.5mg weekly injection... a strange loss of appetite, headache, and alternating sweats and chills.

 

He's a carpenter, and in just 4 weeks he said it definitely made him stronger. But the side effects were too much. It's powerful stuff. Not sure if his body wasn't used to it after decades of low T and he just needed to taper up, or maybe something was up with his gear... but for him the reaction was so severe, he swore it off to this day. He's on my protocol (sort of, his wife had a say in it) and doing okay. 58yrs, maybe eventually has to go the TRT route.

[sativa]

Other natural non invasive methods to increase testosterone's effectiveness would be to reduce intake of estrogenic substance's (xenoestrogens), notably BPA and other plastic chemicals etc.

This could also be aided by improving your livers detoxification pathways to increase excretion of xenoestrogens.

[gamesguru]

As per xenoestrogens and pollutants... Lead is known to inhibit testosterone production, and generally you want to keep "yourself well-oiled and your pipes clean".

 

As per the high vs. low T general health debate, I would weigh in with these studies...

Testosterone supplementation reduces heart attack risk in men with heart disease
Testosterone Replacement Therapy Increases Longevity In Men
Low testosterone levels are related to poor prognosis factors in men with prostate cancer prior to treatment.

[jack black]

im sorry but i have to ask again this since people keep trying to avoid the topic. there are studies showing high testosterone and lower lifespan and eunuchs living as possibly long as females versus males, why would you guys want high testosterone into old age if your goal in life is to live as long as possible and you are visiting a forum for longevity? this has been confusing me for quite a while and it seems men here seem very uncomfortable discussing this

 

i'm sorry, but i have answered your question already and not sure why you didn't get it.

 

coming back to the topic, there are 2 other things (besides what was mentioned already) that can increase testosteron (most likely via decreased steress):

 

Aswaghandha: https://examine.com/...ts/ashwagandha/

Low dose naltrexone: http://www.longecity...ongevity/page-3

Edited by jack black, 23 July 2016 - 10:31 PM.

[pamojja]

its not making sense tho, women having low testosterone (naturally) and live longer than males (a lot of proof in female hormones and longevity) so it seems its mostly companies pushing testosterone claiming its good for the health aka LEF

 

Didn't even know LEF sells testosterone.

 

However, reading all available studies pro and contra, and how female longevity comes about, it does make perfectly sense.
 

[sativa]

A healthy level of Testosterone has it's health benefits and advantages, I think a temporary surge in testosterone levels can be beneficial.

I think people with low testosterone levels will be happy for ways of increasing testosterone too...

@normalizing
There will be many other reasons CRON and fasting are beneficial other than reduced testosterone. Apply more critical thinking normalizing, don't just make too rash conclusions...

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Let's observe what happens to trans men. When they have their testicles removed and are put on female hormones, do they become healthier in terms of reduced risks of various health problems? It would seem like it but what's all about the high incidence of stroke and cardiovascular disease in them (or maybe I read the wrong statistic)?

Perhaps the difference between the genetics of men and women is more than just coding for proteins to make the testicles. 

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Taurine and alcar have a clear libido boosting effect. Both are components of human sperm.

[sativa]

Ecdysterone (Suma root & quinoa) positive impact on IGF-1

Estrogen receptor beta is involved in skeletal muscle hypertrophy induced by the phytoecdysteroid ecdysterone.

...
Ecdy treatment increased muscle fiber size, serum IGF-1 increased, and corticosteron and 17β-estradiol (E2) decreased.
...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24974955

Edited by sativa, 26 July 2016 - 09:25 AM.

[gamesguru]

staurosporine (a bacterial alkaloid with other side effects) appears to act by promoting 3beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase^{[1], [2]}, which you can see from the diagram in my first post, is a very important enzyme. other common flavonoids, such as genistein, may inhibit the enzyme, but not irreversibly, and they may actually have a helpful "modulatory" effect". but perhaps overdoing the genistein will be anti-androgenic.

 

thanks for the IGF-1 lead, sativa. i'll pair it off with a few others i've found on hgh and insulin for a new thread soon. certainly, the results of this natural stack will be nowhere near as dramatic as doing the real thing. and thank god for that. but seeing as the target audience is pre-teens seeking a growth spurt and this is an adult forum, i thought it unlikely i should reach any listeners.

[David Middlemiss]

I would try the aggressive stack then. Ginger, exercise, high fat, button shrooms, ginkgo. Maybe also ones mentioned in later posts like aspartic acid or DIM?

One reason these supplementa might not work in humans is the huge dose used in rodent studies. While I did post this topic prematurely and just wanted to get the information out there before I had a grasp of it all... I can assure you the ginger was studied in physiologically attainable concentrations. For us, like 10g wet root daily. It is also one of the more potent products mentioned, inducing a near 18% increase.

I had taken Tong Kat Ali an Asian herb root, as a testosterone booster as was feeling lethargic and managed to buy from a Thai company on eBay a few years ago, it was amazingly good at boosting energy and sexual desire plus aiding erection, had a side affect of clearing sinuses also, tasted horrendous although If encapsulated it's fine,

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3669033/

[normalizing]

just found this new article to come out today; https://www.scienced...60725224035.htm Male hormone reverse cell aging

 

Instead of estrogen, the researchers treated the patients with androgen, he explained, because it has long been used as a drug in cases of congenital anemia and offers the advantage of stimulating an increase in the mass of hemoglobin (red blood cells), which estrogen cannot do.

Treatment with the steroid danazol, a synthetic male hormone, was tested for two years in 27 patients with aplastic anemia owing to telomerase gene mutations.

 

so go buy danazol, help with your maleness AND telomerase enhancement

[sativa]

...
Treatment with the steroid danazol, a synthetic male hormone, was tested for two years in 27 patients with aplastic anemia owing to telomerase gene mutations.

so go buy danazol, help with your maleness AND telomerase enhancement

Personally I'd choose suma root (containing ecdysterone & germanium) which "Enhance Erythropoiesis - the development of mature red blood cells" as well as increased blood oxygenation and enhanced muscle development over synthetic hormones!

With a side dish of natural telomerase enhancers... who needs synthetic molecules!! Natures has it all.

Find me a method/tek for mexamine

Edited by sativa, 28 July 2016 - 03:22 PM.

[normalizing]

i took suma, and what a crap it was. you are ill informed my friend if you think suma (none valuable in research obscure plant) will have same effect as advanced medicine has created in this new century. i understand people living in the stone age still being afraid of advanced medicine and throwing their stones and pounding with sticks yelling WITCH WITCH WITCH and screaming bloody DEVIL WORSHIPER at the scientists and their inventions, but i really hope for your best you change your mind soon

[sativa]

Perhaps your n=1 suma experiment was uneventful but my n=1 suma experiment continues, with great success. You can't imprint your poor results on others, this would be ignorant.

One can't ignore traditional use of suma neither. Suma's anthropological context is interesting - this is what got me interested in it.

Note I also make use of modern scientific innovations such as memantine, tianeptine, free form amino acids etc - I use and enjoy the best of both worlds (the traditional and 'modern') for there is value in both, if you can perceive it.

Edited by sativa, 29 July 2016 - 01:38 AM.

[normalizing]

oh yeh? suma has ZERO reliable results on NCBI, go check and see except some in vitro and various analyses of native use, i assure you, nothing of importance

[sativa]

I'm not bothered about external justification from modern day scientists on NCBI etc, my personal experience accords well with traditional use and knowledge.

Thanks for the kind suggestion though.

[normalizing]

well you also recommended me to try Synaptolepis kirkii and so far zero results from that either. it came from the same source you get it, its white powder sawdust, hard to dissolve really and very nasty to eat straight.

[sativa]

well you also recommended me to try Synaptolepis kirkii and so far zero results from that either. it came from the same source you get it, its white powder sawdust, hard to dissolve really and very nasty to eat straight.

Like I said, you can't imprint your poor results on others, this would be ignorant.

I understand you get vastly different results with herbs that for other people, seem to work. Perhaps there is a root reason for this, likely brain chemistry related?

Kirkii indeed tastes a bit odd but my ROA was to mix in with some hot water and drink. I don't mind the taste. (Syrian rue on the other hand, I prefer encapsulated)

[Baten]

jso go buy danazol, help with your maleness AND telomerase enhancement

 

danazol is highly suppressive and would quite quickly shutdown your HPTA axis, so no that sounds like some terrible advice. Taking steroids make you feel 'manly' but only while taking them...

[PeaceAndProsperity]

When it comes to studies on increasing test. levels they're often completely useless. Lots of studies say that various things increase test. by as much as 300%, less or more, but nobody experiences any increase when they try it. And then some studies claim something has absolutely no effect on test. values but when tried it's clearly false.

[Logic]

Holy basil, or Ocimum sanctum, is an herb that originally comes from India. In animal studies done at Sharma University of Health Sciences it sends testosterone levels so high that researchers can't measure them. And no, they weren't using high-tech extracts, but ordinary fresh leaves of the plant.

http://www.ergo-log.com/holybasil.html

 

Now that I think about it; anything with a 'Holy' association seems to be a powerful testosterone booster. (Typical of the male psyche..?    )

I wondered why the vatican had statues of pinecones and discovered that the pollen was changing the sex of fish to male in the watercourses it was landing in.

Edited by Logic, 31 July 2016 - 06:18 PM.