364 replies to this topic

[Izan]

baten, are you still seeing positive results with testoluten?

[Baten]

baten, are you still seeing positive results with testoluten?

 

to be honest effects have diminished somewhat since the first week. Then again the standard package is 20 capsules, and I'm currently on the last strip of my 60 capsule pack. I'm thinking it would have been better if I cycled it. Still, overall I think it was a pretty darn decent supplement for sure.

[normalizing]

kisspeptin http://www.medicalne...cles/315435.php its all natural peptide that you have naturally in you, discard herbs for testosterone boost, they are unnatural meaning they are not created inside your body but come from outside

[iseethelight]

Pomegranate, do a google search..

[Izan]

kisspeptin http://www.medicalne...cles/315435.php its all natural peptide that you have naturally in you, discard herbs for testosterone boost, they are unnatural meaning they are not created inside your body but come from outside

highly interested in this. it 'cures' libido problems as well. wish someone would start a groupbuy to get this amazing peptide.

[gamesguru]

If something is creating inside your body it is endogenous (more than natural), however how do you propose boosting kisspeptin?  If it's not through exercise or meditation (but rather dietary supplements) we get back to the old problem of using exogeneous substances.  Doesn't matter if your body produces estrogen or DMT, to administer it from the outside is still what you would call "unnatural".  Therefore you're administering kisspeptin (or some herb to indirectly modulate kisspeptin) from the outside, and it is no more natural than tongkat or boron which must surely cause instant death.  Anyways, good luck on this route guys.  I'm afraid it will prove to be too indirect of a pathway.

 

Also, pomegranate juice.  It is a PDE5 inhibitor, but for one reason or another, it lacks the clinical effectiveness of viagra both in the short-term (3hrs) and long-term (28+ days).  One might even say it lacks any clinical effectiveness.  Ginkgo and ginger would be far more effective, even in terms of antixoidant status i'm sure

[Izan]

the study showed that it restores/reactivates libido

[normalizing]

 

kisspeptin http://www.medicalne...cles/315435.php its all natural peptide that you have naturally in you, discard herbs for testosterone boost, they are unnatural meaning they are not created inside your body but come from outside

highly interested in this. it 'cures' libido problems as well. wish someone would start a groupbuy to get this amazing peptide.

 

 

i wanna buy it too but i dont see anyone else interested besides you. its still new i guess and undiscovered by many
 

[gamesguru]

Kisspeptin?

Of course, it directly stimulates[1] the gonadal axis.  You might as well take hCG injections... after all hCG is endogenous/naturally occurring in the body, and by your logic it is also perfectly safe.

 

 

Pomegranate?

Which study?  And it needs saying, libido is not erectile function.  High libido + no function downstairs = poor life situation.

 

Pomegranate is only a weak, reversible PDE5.  It won't cause uncontrollable erections in anyone (which is more than you can say for viagra, an irreversible PDE5 inhibitor).  However, combining it with sildefinil may put you over the edge.  This may simply be a result of antioxidant capacity, especially cardiac ED^[2] (antioxidants play a role in everything, dun u kno?)  Note: if youre eating lunch, best avoid the last two sentences.

A 46-year-old man presented to the emergency room with a persistent and painful penile erection that had lasted for 5 hours after sexual intercourse with his wife. He was diagnosed to have psychogenic type erectile dysfunction and the urologist prescribed sildenafil. He took 50 mg sildenafil on alternative days for past 30 days which produced hard erections that detumesced immediately after intercourse. He was advised by an alternative medicine practitioner to drink 200 ml of pomegranate juice daily to improve the vigor and vitality. After taking pomegranate juice first time along with a dose of 50 mg of sildenafil for the first time, he had an erection within 15 minutes that was sustained even after ejaculation. He was not on any concurrent medications or herbal agents. He denied previous events of priapism, genital trauma, substance abuse, and other chronic illness. Examination showed an engorged, edematous, erect penis with tense and tender corpus cavernosa sparing the corpus spongiosum and glans. The testis and the prostate were normal.

 

 

According to one study with ED and pomegranate juice, "overall statistical significance was not achieved".

 

A second study (where the academic authors' diction nevertheless borders on colloquialism) concludes with another nail in the pomegranate coffin:

... final outcome measurement was then performed. The bottom line is that daily pomegranate juice for at least 28 days did not improve one’s erection regardless of whether one was in the first or second treatment group. This study highlights the fact that not all bench findings prove clinically efficacious and demonstrates the necessity of randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies. The authors are to be congratulated for publishing these negative but important findings.

Edited by gamesguru, 31 January 2017 - 02:41 AM.

[normalizing]

kisspeptin and hCG work the same way?  if so, wow i dont need kisspeptin since its all new and stuff and probably costs a lot but im sure insurance will cover hCG good information

[gamesguru]

insurance is likely not gonna cover hcg, because test is the norm.  hcg is seen as risky and more often than not it requires doctor pre-authorization.  i wouldn't go around injecting hCG anyways.. strong research chemical vibes.  test is more tried and tested (no pun intended).  but i would argue ginger is still safer.

 

and yeah, GnRH, LH, hCG and test are all closely related.  the way kisspeptin works is upstream secretion of GnRH, you can read about it in the discussion here

[normalizing]

yeah ok thanks but ill try it with my doctor. if ginger worked, ill be superman the amounts i consumed back in the day, thanks tho

[gamesguru]

again, faulty assumption.  ginger would boost T on the order of 15 to 20%.  not enough to perceive, except with lab tests, and certainly not enough to become "superman".  might have to throw some tongkat, ginkgo, DIM, aspartic acid, Mg, Zn, Bo into the mix for that, I reckon.  if you need synergy,you need a stack.  go build one, and test it.  this generally works better on older men, and some things have changed for you since "back in the day", so it may be worth another go regardless

[Izan]

 

Kisspeptin?

Of course, it directly stimulates[1] the gonadal axis.  You might as well take hCG injections... after all hCG is endogenous/naturally occurring in the body, and by your logic it is also perfectly safe.

 

 

Pomegranate?

Which study?  And it needs saying, libido is not erectile function.  High libido + no function downstairs = poor life situation.

 

Pomegranate is only a weak, reversible PDE5.  It won't cause uncontrollable erections in anyone (which is more than you can say for viagra, an irreversible PDE5 inhibitor).  However, combining it with sildefinil may put you over the edge.  This may simply be a result of antioxidant capacity, especially cardiac ED^[2] (antioxidants play a role in everything, dun u kno?)  Note: if youre eating lunch, best avoid the last two sentences.

A 46-year-old man presented to the emergency room with a persistent and painful penile erection that had lasted for 5 hours after sexual intercourse with his wife. He was diagnosed to have psychogenic type erectile dysfunction and the urologist prescribed sildenafil. He took 50 mg sildenafil on alternative days for past 30 days which produced hard erections that detumesced immediately after intercourse. He was advised by an alternative medicine practitioner to drink 200 ml of pomegranate juice daily to improve the vigor and vitality. After taking pomegranate juice first time along with a dose of 50 mg of sildenafil for the first time, he had an erection within 15 minutes that was sustained even after ejaculation. He was not on any concurrent medications or herbal agents. He denied previous events of priapism, genital trauma, substance abuse, and other chronic illness. Examination showed an engorged, edematous, erect penis with tense and tender corpus cavernosa sparing the corpus spongiosum and glans. The testis and the prostate were normal.

 

 

According to one study with ED and pomegranate juice, "overall statistical significance was not achieved".

 

A second study (where the academic authors' diction nevertheless borders on colloquialism) concludes with another nail in the pomegranate coffin:

... final outcome measurement was then performed. The bottom line is that daily pomegranate juice for at least 28 days did not improve one’s erection regardless of whether one was in the first or second treatment group. This study highlights the fact that not all bench findings prove clinically efficacious and demonstrates the necessity of randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies. The authors are to be congratulated for publishing these negative but important findings.

 

you clearly haven't read the last study re kisspeptin and human libido. you should study it.

[normalizing]

so, throw some tongkat, ginkgo, DIM, aspartic acid, Mg, Zn, Bo into the mix etc. each one you have to buy separetely and take it for what, like 3 months regularly to achieve some minor percent raise in testosterone if any, versus inject just one time kisspeptin and lifty your testosterone to youthful levels.... dunno, tough task

[gamesguru]

if you were a billionaire and money were no object, you would go for the tried and tested method of herbs, rather than some novel injectable peptide even if it were more effective.  i would at least.  the herbs are anyways likely as cheap and effective

 

and where is the study saying it returns to youthful levels.  i found barely a 20% increase according to one study.  we're talking about 350 --> 420.  not a youthful level.  see 3.2.1

ginger on its own produces a 17.7% increase, and that's not factoring in the multipliers of the other 5 supplements i recommended to throw in the mix

 

and this isn't a libido thread.  it's a testosterone thread.  the books may say TRT reliably restores libido, but the anecdotes on the internet say otherwise.  this is more for cognitive (and general) health, muscle gain.  everything else is a separate issue.  you really have to research it separately.

Edited by gamesguru, 01 February 2017 - 12:49 PM.

[Ark]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16648789

[gamesguru]

^^ exhaustion exercise.  hmm.. that's probably why squat gets the testosterone secreting more than teh bench prass (the latter not being very exhausting)

 

i also just want to personally add the importance of stress reduction.  you can do everything recommended in this thread, but if you're in a bad state of mind none of it will help.  you'll not see any gains, any benefits on the mind or body (being stressed out is almost certainly far more harmful than anything in this thread could possibly be helpful).  got to meditate, take adaptogens, stuff your face with evermore colorful plants, make life changes.. do what ever it takes to get your stress levels under control, only from there can you proceed.  ironically for how early on i dismissed tribulus as ineffective for younger guys, it's actually one of the most effective natural options against stress-induced anhedonia (along with shilajit, ginseng and resveratrol).  anhedonia is thankfully rare but it's hard to treat.  it's often "just" a sign of stress

Edited by gamesguru, 01 February 2017 - 09:23 PM.

[birthdaysuit]

so, throw some tongkat, ginkgo, DIM, aspartic acid, Mg, Zn, Bo into the mix etc. each one you have to buy separetely and take it for what, like 3 months regularly to achieve some minor percent raise in testosterone if any, versus inject just one time kisspeptin and lifty your testosterone to youthful levels.... dunno, tough task

 

I took aspartic acid, Mg, Zn, Oysters, Whey, Creatine, Vitamin D and my low testosterone increased to normal slightly elevated levels.

[gamesguru]

I took aspartic acid, Mg, Zn, Oysters, Whey, Creatine, Vitamin D and my low testosterone increased to normal slightly elevated levels.

 

incredible.  especially once you consider that zinc and oysters are the same thing and whey does nothing.  i guess your task is somewhat easier.. lots of things that help elderly men restore their levels are things which aren't necessarily gonna help those already in the 500-800 range, i.e. tribulus

 

perhaps the only thing more incredible would be to acquire kisspeptin ampoules for a reasonable price and thereby obtain superior results?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I took aspartic acid, Mg, Zn, Oysters, Whey, Creatine, Vitamin D and my low testosterone increased to normal slightly elevated levels.

Zinc works for barely a week and then it doesn't work anymore or it works insignificantly. Aspartic acid only works for some and for those it works some of them experience effects only for a week or month while others experience effects for years so long as they take it. Magnesium is useless, doesn't do a thing to testosterone. Creatine, as said, doesn't touch testosterone but dht. Vitamin D is likewise useless, it's based upon a misconception that sunlight increases testosterone, which is true, but it's not the increased vitamin D but actually the increased cholesterol sulfate synthesis. Yes there are studies that show vitamin D increase testosterone but there are also studies that show that caffeine does it, and it doesn't. You may just go and buy the cholesterol in bulk powder and consume it - no, it doesn't give you heart disease because it can't, that's not how people get heart disease. Myths, myths, myths.

If you actually experienced an increase in testosterone, how much of an increase and for how long assuming continuous supplementation did you experience it? If you were above 500ng/dl and experienced an increase then I'd be very surprised, and if you experienced it continuously then I'd be even more surprised.

[gamesguru]

i think going from 500 up to 600 or 700 isn't too far outside the realm of possibility.  and that's a quite significant jump.  

 

at the very least, you're going to modulate levels in accordance to daily stressors.  i barely go to the gym like 3x in a week, barely break a sweat, and i'm still around 170lbs 12%, squatting 225, etc etc.  without some of these supps, stress really affects you more.  i had dipped down to almost 155 lbs at one point

[normalizing]

 

so, throw some tongkat, ginkgo, DIM, aspartic acid, Mg, Zn, Bo into the mix etc. each one you have to buy separetely and take it for what, like 3 months regularly to achieve some minor percent raise in testosterone if any, versus inject just one time kisspeptin and lifty your testosterone to youthful levels.... dunno, tough task

 

I took aspartic acid, Mg, Zn, Oysters, Whey, Creatine, Vitamin D and my low testosterone increased to normal slightly elevated levels.

 

 

yeh i used to take all these either separate or in combos not sure they had much effect. i remember oysters (big doses) back when i was younger would make me super horny through the roof, but as i aged i tried to eat dozens of them again and no effect.

 

only thing so far ive noticed boosting my testosterone is red wine. i actually drank a lot of red wine when i was at the doctor and i had proof my testosterone was boosted, in fact quite high. but, i cant rely on that as the quantity needed is too much and i have too many headaches as well :(

[Baten]

i think going from 500 up to 600 or 700 isn't too far outside the realm of possibility.  and that's a quite significant jump.  

 

at the very least, you're going to modulate levels in accordance to daily stressors.  i barely go to the gym like 3x in a week, barely break a sweat, and i'm still around 170lbs 12%, squatting 225, etc etc.  without some of these supps, stress really affects you more.  i had dipped down to almost 155 lbs at one point

 

I went up from 494 to 785 following mostly general recommendations in this thread, avoiding fast food living healthy, exercising. +purchasing questionable testosteron boosting products which may or may not have done a thing.

 

I had my blood taken today, so I'm quite curious if my levels have gone down, up or stayed the same. Currently taking black seed, 2x1g a day.

http://www.ergo-log....stosterone.html I wonder if it had any significant effect.

[gamesguru]

this thread sort of drew its inspiration from when i was working at GNC.  you saw first-hand the bullshit that really goes on in the supp industry.  just had to deal with so many guys coming in and asking for that section (and sometimes the guy was too ashamed he would send his wife), you felt bad not telling them they could do the same thing with a simple recipe, but you were making $10 per sale so you just told them it was a really complex recipe and called it good.  I personally would never take the stuff even if it was free.  It's so poorly proportioned, like 3g of trib and 5mg of reishi, like why bother with the reishi?  There's quality concerns, with so many ingredients, it's like a OEM computer, their component suppliers change from day to day to keep costs low.. the stuff could be three years old, and forget about heavy metal testing.  Plus, none of them have the best ingredients (like ginger).  Enjoy your watered-down reishi and bleeding wallet

 

It's black cumin* and interesting find, we'll see about future studies/testimonies.  But you see folks, he achieved a near 60% increase in levels.  That just demonstrates the Multiplier Effect.  You take two supplements that each boost test 20% (and maybe since the law of diminishing returns, the second only multiplies the first by 15% instead of 20%... but that's still a 38% gain, 1.2 * 1.15 = 1.38).  So, on paper at least, it's not impossible to double your low T

[Baten]

I went up from 494 to 785 following mostly general recommendations in this thread, avoiding fast food living healthy, exercising. +purchasing questionable testosteron boosting products which may or may not have done a thing.

 

I had my blood taken today, so I'm quite curious if my levels have gone down, up or stayed the same. Currently taking black seed, 2x1g a day.

http://www.ergo-log....stosterone.html I wonder if it had any significant effect.

 

785 ng/dl seems to stay as my 'record', with free T at 13.3 ng/dl. At that time (6 months ago) I was taking 'Animal Stak' by Universal Nutrition along with Tongkat ali from Malaysia (Sumatra brand). Would make sense that upon cessation levels went back down a bit.

 

Currently on a regimen of black cumin seed (plain) + AndroSense by Natural Factors. On this current regimen, my blood work has returned a level of 682 ng/dl. Free testosterone yields a current 10.3 ng/dl. If these are to be my new 'baseline' levels (as in not taking anything besides cumin seed and broccoli extract...), I'd say they're not to shabby. Still aiming to get them even higher, though.

[Junk Master]

Switching sexual partners, though definitely not PC, works...lol...one of Charles Poliquin's favorite rants.

[gamesguru]

PC is prostate cancer?

Switching partners will definitely do the trick. Only problem is that this technique is far less accesible to those stuck in the lonely male syndrome than, say, a cup of gingerale. If guys could just go to the bar alone and suck up the rejection for the learning curve, if they could just look after their cardiovascular health a bit better.. then we might not have such an epidemic of spineless ED on our hands.

And without the coolidge effect there would be no internet porn. No switching partners. No divorces either, I'm sure you will agree?

[John2009]

I thought I remembered reading somthing about Rhodila Crenulata (not rosea) increasing testosterone by 76% at 2 grams per day for a month...

 

https://www.google.c...sterone&f=false

 

Would 2 grams of rhodiola per day likely be safe ?

 

I also read that Tribulus Alatus (not Terrestris) increases testosterone.

 

http://www.brazjurol...ing_554_559.htm

 

http://www.ergo-log....ulusalatus.html

 

The Testoluten sounds interesting, but I wonder if it is safe. If the peptides are instructing DNA, what if something goes wrong and it produces a mutation or cacner ? I don't know how likely that might be or if it could even happen at all ?

 

Baten, did the Testoluten produce results you could feel ? Did the Testoluten increase energy, libido, iimprove mood or anthing like that ? I know swanson and anti-aging systems sells Testoluten, I might try it at some point. I quickly looked at the Russian Professors website, is there any evidence for effectiveness and safety ?

 

Is it important that the peptides are extracted from young animals ? It's probably not a problem with Testoluten, but if the peptides were extracted from brain or nervous system tissue, I might be a little concerned about Prions and Mad Cow, but if the animals are grass fed then perhaps that would not be such an issue.

 

 

 

[normalizing]

interesting, different rhodiolas with different effects. even more confusion about supplements and their actual ingredients arises....