79 replies to this topic

[gamesguru]

that magnesium and curcumin r super venomousy

[sativa]

that magnesium and curcumin r super venomousy

:P

I was referring to lappaconitine and kaitocephalin!

Nothing compared to this baby? - Strychnine from Nux vomica seeds. I've got ~10 around here somewhere. The dose makes the poison...

Strychnine is a glycine receptor antagonist. Not the NMDA-glycine site, but just the glycine receptor. Glycine is an inhibitor neurotransmitter.

The only other glycine antagonist I know of is caffeine. It's much weaker than strychnine in that area.

Strychnine has nootropic potential. Its extremely potent and an overdose is not pleasant.

Edited by sativa, 21 May 2016 - 11:36 PM.

[gamesguru]

Yeah, they used to test athletes for strychnine, as if a small dose enhanced physical performance.

Ginkgo is also a glycine antagonist.

[sativa]

Yeah, they used to test athletes for strychnine, as if a small dose enhanced physical performance.

It enhances all senses IIRC

[gamesguru]

better test for psychedelics too then

[sativa]

Seeing as stychnine lowers the threshold for the activation of a nerve impulse I guess this is of use for athletes.

Why don't you try and make Phenylethylpiperidine in vivo using legal food based ALDH inhibitors, piperidine produced from gut bacteria/black pepper and endogenous Phenylethylamine. This won't be on any doping list

Once you've got that going, then run me a marathon!

Edited by sativa, 22 May 2016 - 01:10 AM.

[gamesguru]

I'll stick to my natural ways, but interesting. I think capsicum does this too thru glutamate, and feedback from the vagus boosts overall CNS activity and synchrony.

[sativa]

An orexogenic boost too - olive leaf and glutamine unregulate GLP-1, a gut hormone that can activate/excite orexin neurons in the hypothalamus (which increases orexin).

Im vivo phenylethylpiperidine formation is 100% natural perhaps such a psychedelic isn't suited for athletic activity though...

[normalizing]

i did the black pepper + PEA combo and i got so sick as if i overdosed on morning glories without any good effects not recommended

 

im wondering, are you getting the powdered tianeptine in UK wow thats interesting thing to get in there as i know how strict the laws are against such things. same with that full spectrum iboga what magic are you doing to get them in UK??

[sativa]

i did the black pepper + PEA combo and i got so sick as if i overdosed on morning glories without any good effects not recommended

im wondering, are you getting the powdered tianeptine in UK wow thats interesting thing to get in there as i know how strict the laws are against such things. same with that full spectrum iboga what magic are you doing to get them in UK??

Are you not UK based?
I got most things months ago, the Tianeptine a few days ago.

It's that simple, I bought things before any laws came into effect, which is the 26th IIRC

Re phenylethylpiperidine, from feedback it seems YMMV. You can't base your perspective on in vivo formation of novel compounds based on one "faulty" experience. Who knows what variables you didn't consider!

Lysine can be used instead of black pepper (as a piperidine source) but this relies on you having adequate healthy gut bacteria to create the piperidine.

Also, due to ALDH inhibition (which is a crucial step for cycling), any aldehydes you create will form abducts with piperidine/dimethylamine. So this means avoiding any alkaloids/drugs such as medication etc except the target alkaloid aka Phenylethylamine or Tryptamine.

This concept was termed "cycling" as you can effectively achieve continuous creation and recycling of an alkaloid(s) in vivo. Cycling probably has some prerequisites such as a clean body & mind etc (eg long term drug use might impair cyclings efficacy) - like I said its not for everyone.

This is quite a niche area of research and so trial and error is still involved.

You can use cycling to produce, in vivo, many interesting novel things like this active DMT metabolite:

piperidine + Tryptamine = 3-(2-Piperidinoethyl)indole)

(Tryptamine forms indole-ethyl-aldehyde due to MAO enzyme)

If the necessary precursors (including nutrients and ALDH inhibitors) are supplied to your body, you can theoretically cycle a substance indefinitely. Mental resilience, stamina and physical endurance would then be the main limiting factors.

Edited by sativa, 22 May 2016 - 06:32 PM.

[normalizing]

so piperidine + tryptamine might create DMT ? the source of tryptamine can be 5htp or melatonin unless something else is available that i dont know of?

[sativa]

so piperidine + tryptamine might create DMT ? the source of tryptamine can be 5htp or melatonin unless something else is available that i dont know of?

No, DMT is dimethyl-tryptamine.

Phenylethylpiperidine is the piperidine analog of phenethylamine.
3-(2-Piperidinoethyl)indole is the piperidine analog of DMT, which is impervious to metabolism by the MAO enzyme!

For DMT, you would want a surplus of dimethylamine instead of piperidine, and tryptamine from tryptophan ofc:

If you could force L-tryptophan to be converted to tryptamine, that's the way to go.

To do that you need to inhibit tryptophan 5-monooxygenase.

Inhibitors of tryptophan 5-monooxygenase:

3,4-dihydroxystyrene
3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (this is Ecstasy, MDMA!)
5-hydroxytryptophan (why does this inhibit it? That's strange.)
Dopamine (why am I not surprised)
L-DOPA (or L-DOPA)
L-phenylalanine
L-tryptophan (interesting)
L-tyrosine

It seems phenylalanine works well for this purpose, it will also create phenylethylamine, which will be "cycled" to create phenylethylpiperidine (a potent psychedelic)

If 5-HTP is used as the inhibitor of 5-monooxygenase, this would form the bufotenine-piperidine analog, which would contribute similar psychoactive effects to the piperidine DMT analogue.

This would be better than the phenethylamine-piperidine analog that would be formed with added phenylalanine, because phenylalanine would introduce D2 effects, changing the experience to be more like LSD (not exactly though).

Regarding piperidine analogues of 5-HTP and melatonin,

...could add 5-HTP to generate a bufotenine analog, 5-hydroxy-3-(2-Piperidinoethyl)indole (but that might also result in serotonin syndrome if you have excess ammonia in your liver, should be fine though as long as it is all converted to the piperidine analog). This molecule's XlogP3 is 2.03 so it should be psychoactive enough.

One could possibly add melatonin to create 5-methoxy-3-(2-Piperidinoethyl)indole (a 5-MeO-DMT analog),...

Here is the crux of this cycling technique/concept:

With aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibited pretty much anything could cross the BBB and become active when released in the body and bonded to piperidine.
...
This is similar to the effect MAOI's have on total neurotransmitter levels. They amplify everything that is metabolized by MAO. But this piperidine modification method would amplify everything metabolized by ALDH.

Edited by sativa, 22 May 2016 - 07:02 PM.

[normalizing]

actually i had some interesting psychoactive effects from tryptophol that felt like light dmt

 

Tryptophol has been used as precursor in the synthesis of tryptamines like DMT - from wiki

[sativa]

actually i had some interesting psychoactive effects from tryptophol that felt like light dmt

Tryptophol has been used as precursor in the synthesis of tryptamines like DMT - from wiki

Wow, tryptophol aka indole-3-ethanol looks interesting.

Have you been on Disulfiram recently then?

If you wanted to experiment, you could take lysine daily (for piperidine creation) and try a small dose of phenylethylamine/tryptophan/5-HTP (be careful!)/melatonin and see what happens...

Are you taking Disulfiram regularly?

Edited by sativa, 22 May 2016 - 07:36 PM.

[normalizing]

no this didnt happen from disulfiram. it happened from 80 dollar italian wine bottle i chugged. i was confused if i took something else to cause this but later i found some specific expensive wines have high content of this chemical so if you have good tolerance for alcohol and be able to chug 1-2 bottles of really pricey high quality stuff there is a good chance you will get some psychedelica.

https://en.wikipedia...s_found_in_wine thats just few, there are over 300 compounds depending on type of wine, where it is produced, how it is produced and ive had wines at range prices of $80 that were seriously trippy and some with about the same prices that were worse than $20 so you never know its a huge gamble

[sativa]

Ah I see.

Do you take anything to mitigate ethanol's undesirable after effects? - assuming you get them in the first place.

I mixed vodka with organic cranberry pure pressed juice yesterday. That was "nice". I also had a hastily put together phenylethylpiperidine mix and was using alcohol as another ALDH inhibitor...

Along with lots of water, high dose milk thistle extract and beetroot extract to mitigate hangover effects.

I'd had extracts of Rhodiola, Jiiaogulan, Astralagus and Cistanches deserticola in the morning too.

I think I also encountered a pocket of nitrous oxide gas and thus might have inhaled some.

Edited by sativa, 23 May 2016 - 12:31 PM.

[normalizing]

i had to take too much shit to deal with toxic by products of ethanol so i cannot even bother chugging expensive bottle of wines anymore. just to get that amazing feeling that lasts maybe 1-2 hours not worth 1-2 days of exhaustion. i just shared this ifnormation because i find it an interesting finding about tryptophol just recently as i was confused what caused me to feel so high as if on psychedelics when i experimenting with high quality wines. tho i did overdo it trying to achieve it again and again and its expensive habbit and not good long term BUT i still believe trying it once or twice is worth it.

[sativa]

... i was confused what caused me to feel so high as if on psychedelics when i experimenting with high quality wines. tho i did overdo it trying to achieve it again and again and its expensive habbit and not good long term BUT i still believe trying it once or twice is worth it.

Why don't you try a combination of substances that mimics the pharmacology of expensive bottles of Italian wine?

[normalizing]

not sure how to start there. did you check the extensive list of compounds present in wine? it even has ferulic acid

Edited by normalizing, 23 May 2016 - 12:36 PM.

[gamesguru]

if its a huge gamble and expensive, go with something more sure like green tea and blueberries?

[sativa]

if its a huge gamble and expensive, go with something more sure like green tea and blueberries

Th2 immune system dominance results in noticeable increased allergic responses and sensitivity for me (recently experienced this from taking a th2 increasing plant), so green tea isn't ideal:

According to research, a number of natural compounds have a tendency to push either side of the Th1/Th2 balance. Green tea is one such substance. The active components of green tea have a tendency to push the Th2 system to be more dominant by inhibiting the Th1 side of the immune system.

Blueberries though for sure!

I'll use vitamin e succinate, olive oil, blueberries and other polyphenol sources notably capers and dried oregano. Also:

The top 100 richest foods in polyphenols has been studied and a list was published, but the top 10 are:

Cloves
Star anise
Cocoa powder
Mexican oregano, dried
Celery seed
Black chokeberry
Dark chocolate
Black elderberry
Chestnut

Honorable mention goes to sage, rosemary, spearmint, thyme, capers, basil, curry, strawberries and coffee.

Edited by sativa, 23 May 2016 - 02:13 PM.

[normalizing]

if its a huge gamble and expensive, go with something more sure like green tea and blueberries?

 

what do they do? ive had em for years, nothing special. in fact green tea, after 10 years of consumption, lost its potency. i think i become perm tolerant to its positive effects its like drinking water with caffeine for me

[normalizing]

 

actually i had some interesting psychoactive effects from tryptophol that felt like light dmt

Tryptophol has been used as precursor in the synthesis of tryptamines like DMT - from wiki

Wow, tryptophol aka indole-3-ethanol looks interesting.

Have you been on Disulfiram recently then?

If you wanted to experiment, you could take lysine daily (for piperidine creation) and try a small dose of phenylethylamine/tryptophan/5-HTP (be careful!)/melatonin and see what happens...

Are you taking Disulfiram regularly?

 

 

how do you come up with this formula? how much of lysine, PEA, 5htp and melatonin and how regularly before "anything" happens? i might ask this on bluelight forums if some experienced chemist understand the idea behind it
 

[gamesguru]

Honestly a polyphenol and theanine rich tea will only have cumulative benefits, and the caffeine is never gonna hurt.

Many of its effects take years to fully develop, e.g. its effect on dendrite growth, mitochondrial and endoplasmic status, and glutamatergic and cholinergic potentiation

[normalizing]

i posted here; http://www.bluelight...can-produce-DMT but nobody seems to care about this idea of yours

[sativa]

i posted here; http://www.bluelight...can-produce-DMT but nobody seems to care about this idea of yours

I'm not surprised tbh, its a very niche area of research and so not many people will take notice and "step out of their box" so to speak. This is the issue with following the conclusions of someone else's thinking (ie those bluelight users who didn't care much for it), you might just miss out on gems!!

Here is where this cycling concept took root and was developed on and experimented with:

http://herbs.mxf.yuk...-Tryptophan-Ind

Plenty of research and info on the underlying concepts and mechanisms of what's going on.

Here is a bluelight thread on someone doing a similar thing except not by using the aldehyde dehydrogenase route, but just straight methylation. He seemed to get significant psychedelic effects.

http://www.bluelight...ot-Good-Results

I've just read the blue light thread you made, hahaha so you are this asecin character!! I was sure I recognised something in you manor of writing Lol.

Well, honestly, in vivo DMT creation as well as analogues of DMT (and of ANY alkaloid metabolised into an aldehyde) is quite simple and easy to do.

You provide your body with the necessary precursors (tryptophan, phenylethylamine, piperidine, dimethylamine etc etc) you alter the necessary enzymes (aldehyde dehydrogenase, xanthine oxidase, retinol dehydrogenase etc) and that's pretty much it.

It would seem that any alkaloid metabolised by ALDH can be cycled, indefinitely.

I dont think you described it to those bluelight users in a way that they would understand, using the correct language and terms. Maybe if they actually read the source material (natures herb forum thread) and tried it themselves, they might realise their prior position of self-limitation and dogma (but mainly as a result of the cycling concept not having been explained properly)

I dont think most b.light users really care much for such a niche technique as cycling (nor do they understand the ramifications!!) - why would they when its easier and simpler to take preexisting widely used drugs.

Edited by sativa, 24 May 2016 - 10:29 PM.

[normalizing]

well yeh, this guy does sum it up "Wouldn't it be easier to just get some DMT and take it with a MAOI?" thats a very simple, more affordable no hassle road. anyway, how do you know me from there anyway?

[sativa]

well yeh, this guy does sum it up "Wouldn't it be easier to just get some DMT and take it with a MAOI?" thats a very simple, more affordable no hassle road. anyway, how do you know me from there anyway?

Here in the UK, for the average person, it is quite hard to get hold of DMT unless you know the right people.

DMT aside, show me somewhere where you can buy phenylethylpiperidine, for a feasible price.

phenylethylpiperidine -
IUPAC: 1-(2-Phenylethyl)piperidine https://isomerdesign...main=pk&id=6007

Also, a unique point of "cycling" is that you can create and experience totally novel substances, such as the piperidine analogue of DMT, phenylethylamine or ibogaine.

For the more adventurous of us, this is a major advantage. Imagine being the first human to ever experience a new psychoactive substance.

Remember that with some people, no matter how much you explain a new concept or show some evidence they won't believe you (for whatever reason...) So it becomes a waste of energy trying to communicate it. I'm not saying this with you mind, more so with the BL'ers. /I wonder when sekio will appear and misunderstand or make assumptions on your suggestion and close it!)\

I don't "know you", I just came across a few of your posts on BL in the past week during research and noticed your unique character. And when I linked it to you here I lol'd :p

BTW having reread your BL post, i noticed a significant misconception - I'm not suggesting the encouragement of natural production of DMT. You supply all the necessary precursors so for Tryptamine you take tryptophan etc.

Perhaps you should clarify this to the BL's!

Edited by sativa, 25 May 2016 - 12:19 AM.

[sativa]

Tryptophan -> DMT info from THIKAL.
This could be relevant to persons with mental imbalances due to the involvement of serotonin receptors/methylation/tryptophan:

Tryptophan, a natural and nutritionally essential amino-acid, is a centrally active intoxicant and sleep-provider in man. It is converted metabolically to tryptamine which is a little bit psychedelic.

When administered with methionine (another amino-acid known to methylate things) it produces methylated tryptamines, the two best studied being N-methyltryptamine (NMT) and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT).
...
In short, tryptophan, alone or in combination with MAO inhibitors or methyl donors, is a fabulous tool for exploring brain function.

https://www.erowid.o.../tihkal53.shtml

Edited by sativa, 25 May 2016 - 01:12 AM.

[normalizing]

so even ayhuasca plants by themselves which are not psychoactive are still illegal in UK? from what i understand, at least here in US, all those plants are impotent by themselves and allowed but the actual DMT is banned. i guess UK bans just about anything and yet you did manage to order quite the few stuff there as you shared previously. thats nice!

 

about trypthophan, there is a lot of talk about it combining it with various things but so far i have seen 5htp being the same thing in replacement of it, at least here in US it was replaced because tryptophan was associated with health problems. im wondering now, cant just one use 5htp to do the same things tryptophan can or it just works different somehow? i did see some combo involving 5htp PLUS tryptophan which i do not understand!

 

about bluelight, fuck em, im not clarifying anything anymore there ill just randomly pop in for various small things i quit that place several times during the years because they bored or annoyed me but just recently i had nothing else to do on the internet so im like ill give it few reads and as usual some interesting stuff does pop up!