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Facial Skin Care

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#31 Oakman

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 07:27 PM

I've been working on my own skin cream to (to do whatever is possible for old skin) for some time.  So, for ideas and components to try, I study what is in various formulations from a wide range of vendors. Honestly, upon reflection now, I'd have to say that just about any natural (ish)  plant extract or oil is likely to be added to these products, plus a whole lot of scary sounding chemicals that I imagine are staples of the cosmetics industry.

 

Not picking on you  sthira, but really??? "Tetrahydrodiferuloylmethane (and) Tetrahydrodemethoxydiferuloylmethane (and) Tetrahydrobisdemethoxydiferuloylmethane" Is that something you really want on your skin???

 

So, IMHO, trying to get a short list going (for my own use) based on what vendors use in their formulations divided by what people think of them... Is a difficult, if not an impossible task, as products are virtually all one-off formulations!

 

Off hand, I'd say the more recognizable, natural (ish)  ingredients the better, and the less unpronounceable chemical (ish) sounding ones the better. At least then, there is a ghost of a chance that any benefit can be attributed to some actual ingredient in the mix that can be sourced, rather than needing to ascribe any benefit to some magical combinations of assembled chemicals. Just saying... 

 

 


Edited by Oakman, 29 August 2017 - 07:28 PM.


#32 Oakman

  • Location:CO

Posted 29 August 2017 - 07:43 PM

Here is one place I found that seems to have extensive information about cosmetic ingredients and their potential effects.

 

It's called "Bulk Active Ingredients for Skin Care"   Cool site to read through with your latest cream ingredients in hand.



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#33 aconita

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 08:38 PM

I just may have to make an appointment if it's only $100. I'm thinking the doctors visits add significantly to the price though. Are follow up bottles just $100, or can I just go to LabCorp or Quest Diagnostics and have a blood draw sent to them and mailed back to me?

 

I have been misinterpreted, I referred to do PRP yourself, I don't know how much that Canadian company charges for the take home PRP, what I know is that here where I live a PRP shot goes for around 350-450 euro and that usually US is more expensive.

 

A PRP kit goes foe around 40-50$, if one uses it on himself only it can be sterilized by boiling and reused indefinitely.

 

I don't know how much an anticoagulant cost but I guess it is very cheap.

 

A centrifuge can be found new for as little as 50-60$ or second hand for much less.

 

That's all you need to prepare your own PRP, likely less than 100$ for kit and centrifuge.

 

Since topical PRP is a reality and works one can draw some blood once a month and make its own for all life long with an investment which is really affordable.

 

Applied to the scalp will regrow hair and maybe reverse grey, heals fast cuts and skin lesions, etc...

 

Downsides are that entering a vein to draw blood needs a bit of care and expertise plus handling vials, needles and syringes calls for some knowledge about good practice. 


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#34 Nate-2004

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 09:56 PM

Not picking on you  sthira, but really??? "Tetrahydrodiferuloylmethane (and) Tetrahydrodemethoxydiferuloylmethane (and) Tetrahydrobisdemethoxydiferuloylmethane" Is that something you really want on your skin???

 

I don't get what is wrong with these ingredients. Turmeric derivatives may have potential. These are rated non-toxic non-hazardous too. So yeah I'd try those things.


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#35 Nate-2004

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 09:58 PM

 

I just may have to make an appointment if it's only $100. I'm thinking the doctors visits add significantly to the price though. Are follow up bottles just $100, or can I just go to LabCorp or Quest Diagnostics and have a blood draw sent to them and mailed back to me?

 

I have been misinterpreted, I referred to do PRP yourself, I don't know how much that Canadian company charges for the take home PRP, what I know is that here where I live a PRP shot goes for around 350-450 euro and that usually US is more expensive.

 

A PRP kit goes foe around 40-50$, if one uses it on himself only it can be sterilized by boiling and reused indefinitely.

 

I don't know how much an anticoagulant cost but I guess it is very cheap.

 

A centrifuge can be found new for as little as 50-60$ or second hand for much less.

 

That's all you need to prepare your own PRP, likely less than 100$ for kit and centrifuge.

 

Since topical PRP is a reality and works one can draw some blood once a month and make its own for all life long with an investment which is really affordable.

 

Applied to the scalp will regrow hair and maybe reverse grey, heals fast cuts and skin lesions, etc...

 

Downsides are that entering a vein to draw blood needs a bit of care and expertise plus handling vials, needles and syringes calls for some knowledge about good practice. 

 

 

Is there strong evidence for all these claims somewhere? I see the site you linked. Interesting idea. Just curious.



#36 Nate-2004

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 10:05 PM

 

 

 

quesion I have a Tablet of Aspirin which has 75 MG Aspirin and 75 MG Glycine I eat that every third day half tablet does this work for slow skin aging ? I am 24 Btw


Gaa, wouldn't that be nice. But no, not much for skin damage prevention there. Do use sunscreen, though, and eat up bright fruits and vegetables, they do keep your largest organ healthy, and remember: boring ole water is deliciously skintacular.

Be excited, though, because regenerative medicine is headed your way! If you believe that, then save your money and stay off of Caracas side streets at night (https://www.google.c...he-world-2017-4)

 

 

Don't even bother doing anything till you're 29, and even then I couldn't tell you what to do because that's 5 years from now. I agree with sthira, just stay out of the sun unless you've applied UVA/UVB sunscreen and take vitamin D3 to counter the loss. That's the number one recommendation. I would use Lifeextension's sunscreen. It's a good one.

 

Worst advice I've ever heard, your skin ages alot in that time. Skincare starts early and never ends. Colorful fruits is a good idea as is polypodium leucotomos and beta ecdysone/20 hydroxyecdysone and is also an oral sunscreen (the Heliocare active). That will prevent alot of aging.

 

 

How is staying out of the sun and wearing UVA/B sunscreen as well as getting vitamin D3 the "worst advice you've ever heard"? Any dermatologist would agree with me here. In fact this is the most evidence based suggestion in this entire thread. Anything else, carnosine, RA, beta ecdysone/20 hydroxyecdysone, polypodium leucotomos, whatever, etc, are just other more expensive, hopeful guesses with little supporting evidence.


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#37 aconita

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 10:25 PM

PRP has been well researched both in dentistry and orthopedic applications, it is part of protocols in many hospital settings, likely plenty of researches on pubmed.

 

The cosmetic use is relatively new but well established for skin rejuvenation and hair regrowth but usually by mean of tiny multiple subq injections, the topical route is a novelty.

 

A quick search shows many results and it seems quite a few are offering such treatment, if the topical route is effective and to which extent I don't know yet, I haven't got the time to do a proper research into it, for example the PRP molecular weight (a bottleneck for the reach of deeper layers) seems not so straightforward to find in the net...

 

It will definitely work topically on wounds and such...but that can be done with BPC too.

 

I will do some research on the subject and maybe start a dedicated thread about it, for sure is feasible at a home setting level quite cheaply which is unusual for such a complex mechanism of action.

 

Very intriguing.....


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#38 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 30 August 2017 - 02:39 AM

 

I just may have to make an appointment if it's only $100. I'm thinking the doctors visits add significantly to the price though. Are follow up bottles just $100, or can I just go to LabCorp or Quest Diagnostics and have a blood draw sent to them and mailed back to me?

 

I have been misinterpreted, I referred to do PRP yourself, I don't know how much that Canadian company charges for the take home PRP, what I know is that here where I live a PRP shot goes for around 350-450 euro and that usually US is more expensive.

 

A PRP kit goes foe around 40-50$, if one uses it on himself only it can be sterilized by boiling and reused indefinitely.

 

I don't know how much an anticoagulant cost but I guess it is very cheap.

 

A centrifuge can be found new for as little as 50-60$ or second hand for much less.

 

That's all you need to prepare your own PRP, likely less than 100$ for kit and centrifuge.

 

Since topical PRP is a reality and works one can draw some blood once a month and make its own for all life long with an investment which is really affordable.

 

Applied to the scalp will regrow hair and maybe reverse grey, heals fast cuts and skin lesions, etc...

 

Downsides are that entering a vein to draw blood needs a bit of care and expertise plus handling vials, needles and syringes calls for some knowledge about good practice. 

 

Sorry about that. I guess I'll stay in the US for now then. Anticoagulant? Will aspirin work? It doesn't get much cheaper than that, though is the antiinflammatory effect desireable in this case? Inflammation attracts stem cells for tissue repair... but it's being applied topically, so it doesn't have to go anywhere, so I guess the anti inflammatory effects will aid in survival of the cells.



#39 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 30 August 2017 - 02:42 AM

 

Not picking on you  sthira, but really??? "Tetrahydrodiferuloylmethane (and) Tetrahydrodemethoxydiferuloylmethane (and) Tetrahydrobisdemethoxydiferuloylmethane" Is that something you really want on your skin???

 

I don't get what is wrong with these ingredients. Turmeric derivatives may have potential. These are rated non-toxic non-hazardous too. So yeah I'd try those things.

 

lol, I wouldn't have recognized these as curcuminoids or turmeric constituents or whatever they happen to be. 

 

As someone with allergies though, I do prefer synthetic stuff, even in food so long as it doesn't cause cancer or isn't an azo dye.



#40 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 30 August 2017 - 02:56 AM

 

 

Don't even bother doing anything till you're 29, and even then I couldn't tell you what to do because that's 5 years from now. I agree with sthira, just stay out of the sun unless you've applied UVA/UVB sunscreen and take vitamin D3 to counter the loss. That's the number one recommendation. I would use Lifeextension's sunscreen. It's a good one.

 

Worst advice I've ever heard, your skin ages alot in that time. Skincare starts early and never ends. Colorful fruits is a good idea as is polypodium leucotomos and beta ecdysone/20 hydroxyecdysone and is also an oral sunscreen (the Heliocare active). That will prevent alot of aging.

 

 

How is staying out of the sun and wearing UVA/B sunscreen as well as getting vitamin D3 the "worst advice you've ever heard"? Any dermatologist would agree with me here. In fact this is the most evidence based suggestion in this entire thread. Anything else, carnosine, RA, beta ecdysone/20 hydroxyecdysone, polypodium leucotomos, whatever, etc, are just other more expensive, hopeful guesses with little supporting evidence.

 

I should have highlighted the "don't do anything until you're 29" part. That's the bad advice that stuck out to me. There really is alot that can be done in this window of time to prevent aging and retain youth. It's much harder to age backwards than it is to not age at all pr age more slowly, you can prevent glycation with benfotiamine, P5P, and a handful of other things which have come down significantly in price. Riboflavin, b12, TMG, and folate slow telomere loss and none of them are expensive. The trick is not to start out buying things in bottles, but to buy pure bulk powders so you're cutting out all of the unknowns. It'll help you learn what's good and bad for you-in-particular faster and avoid wasting money on things with ingredients that you were allergic to, had food sensitivities, etc. By doing this you also learn alot about your health and dietary needs.

 

You need to try more stuff. I've ignored sentiments that it's all just overpriced and has little efficacy to my benefit for as long as I've been taking supplements. You also don't need the most expensive supplements when you're young. You can get away with unstandardized extracts and lower doses of things. It costs money, but not much, and it'll make you feel better than wasting money on alcohol as many people in their twenties do trying to have fun.


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#41 aconita

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 02:51 PM

Anticoagulant? Will aspirin work?

 

The anticoagulant isn't for you but for the blood.

 

Outside the body blood coagulate very fast into a solid, you need to add anticoagulant to it in order to prevent that to happen and be able to separate PRP with the centrifuge.

 

"Laboratory instruments, blood transfusion bags, and medical and surgical equipment will get clogged up and become non-operational if blood is allowed to clot. In addition, test tubes used for laboratory blood tests will have chemicals added to stop blood clotting. Apart from heparin, most of these chemicals work by binding calcium ions, preventing the coagulation proteins from using them.

  • Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA) strongly and irreversibly chelates (binds) calcium ions, preventing blood from clotting.
  • Citrate is in liquid form in the tube and is used for coagulation tests, as well as in blood transfusion bags. It binds the calcium, but not as strongly as EDTA. Correct proportion of this anticoagulant to blood is crucial because of the dilution, and it can be reversed with the addition of calcium. It can be in the form of sodium citrate or acid-citrate-dextrose.
  • Oxalate has a mechanism similar to that of citrate. It is the anticoagulant used in fluoride oxalate tubes used to determine glucose and lactate levels"
  •  
  • https://en.wikipedia...i/Anticoagulant


#42 bosharpe

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:01 PM

 

Skin is skin (basically),so why are people seemingly so fixated on facial skin and the protocols that might be beneficial to facial skin, and oblivious, perhaps, to the other 16,000 cm^2 (rough approximation) skin area? Shouldn't the suggestions and protocols suggested here be applied to all skin?

I think focusing on the face get's people to spend more money on smaller bottles of specialized formulations that focus on specific areas people might need to treat. You're only as young and beautiful as your worst aging symptom I suppose. So people take it one step at a time.

 

 

Hi Yolf, 

 

Really intrigued by your insight and knowledge you've offered on this topic. Would it be too cheeky to ask you to elaborate on your skincare supplement routine and what you would recommend for a 31 year old male?

 

In regards to lotions/potions I use to make my own Vitamin C+E serum but it was too much hassle in the end. Now you can buy 4 or 5 different, highly potent Vitamin C formulas from The Ordinary - which I seriously recommend if you are info skincare and looking for proven and effective ingredients at next to nothing prices. 

 

I use their next level product line-up, Niod which is really good and cutting edge. They use a lot of peptides in their range along with a lot complex ingredients, some of which sound a bit wacky, but people love them and I'm addicted to using their stuff too. 



#43 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:31 PM

 

 

Skin is skin (basically),so why are people seemingly so fixated on facial skin and the protocols that might be beneficial to facial skin, and oblivious, perhaps, to the other 16,000 cm^2 (rough approximation) skin area? Shouldn't the suggestions and protocols suggested here be applied to all skin?

I think focusing on the face get's people to spend more money on smaller bottles of specialized formulations that focus on specific areas people might need to treat. You're only as young and beautiful as your worst aging symptom I suppose. So people take it one step at a time.

 

 

Hi Yolf, 

 

Really intrigued by your insight and knowledge you've offered on this topic. Would it be too cheeky to ask you to elaborate on your skincare supplement routine and what you would recommend for a 31 year old male?

 

In regards to lotions/potions I use to make my own Vitamin C+E serum but it was too much hassle in the end. Now you can buy 4 or 5 different, highly potent Vitamin C formulas from The Ordinary - which I seriously recommend if you are info skincare and looking for proven and effective ingredients at next to nothing prices. 

 

I use their next level product line-up, Niod which is really good and cutting edge. They use a lot of peptides in their range along with a lot complex ingredients, some of which sound a bit wacky, but people love them and I'm addicted to using their stuff too. 

 

Well, I gave away alot of good information somewhere in "Are there any antii-aging substances available yet?" Hope you'll consider signing up for a membership :) 

 

It's a little bit more complicated than just swallowing everything on the list though if you want the best results.



#44 Advocatus Diaboli

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:27 PM

@YOLF re: post #20. I agree. Although, smaller bottles may sometimes mean that the bottle size reflects an expedient in that there might be an ingredient(s) that will start degrading before a larger bottle could be used up.

@aconita--in post #21 you wrote "Not really, not in a strict sense of meaning at least.", in response to my "Skin is skin (basically)" assertion in post #18.

I'm not sure why you didn't apprehend my parenthetical aside, "basically", as being an implicit allusion to the fact that I am aware of the differences in skin at various bodily locations--why else would I have written "basically"?.

If I had written: "An automobile is an automobile.", one comment about that claim might be: "Hah, hah, he doesn't know that there's a difference between a Ferrari and an Isetta. e.g.". But, if I had written: "An automobile is an automobile (basically)", a reasonable interpretation of that might be: "Oh, yeah, I guess he might actually recognize that all automobile aren't alike and that a Ferrari actually does differ from an Isetta in many respects, even though they are both automobiles.".

Here is a nice example to add to your female-bodybuilder facial-aging example (equal billing for us men,  ;),  lol).

You wrote: "some parasites can go everywhere but above the neck (scabies,for example)". That's incorrect. Scabies can, in fact, go above the neck in infants and young children. Quote from here: "In addition, when treating infants and young children, scabicide lotion or cream also should be applied to their entire head and neck because scabies can affect their face, scalp, and neck, as well as the rest of their body."

You also wrote: "Facial skin behaves differently from other body skin, you don't get black heads on your body". That's incorrect. Quote from here: "Blackheads are a mild type of acne that usually form on the face, but they can also appear on the following body parts: back, chest, neck, arms, shoulders". (I modified formatting a bit). And by personal observation, legs too.

Ferris. Oops, I mean Matthew. Oops, I mean @nate-2004! In post #25 you wrote "I apply it to as much as my body as possible, it's not affordable or time efficient to simply lather yourself in cream every time you get out of the shower, so you just cover the mostly visible areas.".

The home-brew skin serum I use costs me about $3.00 a month. It generally takes me less than 4 minutes to do a full-body application of that home-brew concoction I made from suggestions in another thread. I do my scalp too (I cut my head-hair to about 1/2 inch)! But, my back needs a little extra time given that I need an implement to assist application which slows me down (acnestis problem and all that  :) ).

However, I do agree with you in that these bits of time here and there do add up in the course of a day (we're not talking Planck time, we're talking big chunks!).


Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 31 August 2017 - 12:19 AM.


#45 aconita

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 02:10 AM

Well...your nick name says it all.:)



#46 Gayle63

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 12:53 AM

You can't beat Retin-A. I've been using it for about 15 years, prescription strength. Also, MitoQ and Medik8 Firewall are good. But prevention is probably the most important thing. Sunscreen every day. 


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#47 Nate-2004

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:05 PM

Well...your nick name says it all. :)

 

Aconita, after continuous use of hydrolyzed collagen, Collagen II, oral and topical hyaluronic acid, topical and oral ceramides as well as regular vitamin D and K, most of which I've taken for well over a year, I'm at a loss. I even tried the boob growing formula around my eyes every day for 60 days, no new subcutaneous fat whatsoever. While my skin looks great for my age there has been no real progress in the deep wrinkle department (only when I smile) which leads me to think that the problem isn't skin, but bone.

 

Specifically bone loss in the orbital process of the zygomatic and maxilla bones. There's plenty of published articles out there about this, mostly dating back to 2010 if you Google. The bone loss begins and the orbitals widen and sink inward as volume is lost.

 

Since I was 35, for about 7 years, the skin under my eyes have begun to sink and become baggier when I smile, my eyes suddenly show deep crow's feet at that point. In young people you can see these bags to varying degrees but they are narrow and do not extend too far below the eye. They haven't lost that bone yet.

 

Is there any known way to increase and recover bone density in such a way that targets those specific bones? Besides boxing I mean lol, I don't wanna get punched and I don't think that works very well, plus, you know, brain damage.

 

Maybe we can brainstorm something. I wonder if there is anything new on the market that can somehow be injected right there to promote bone regrowth and remineralization, in such a way as not to look deformed of course.



#48 bosharpe

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:10 PM

 

Well...your nick name says it all. :)

 

Aconita, after continuous use of hydrolyzed collagen, Collagen II, oral and topical hyaluronic acid, topical and oral ceramides as well as regular vitamin D and K, most of which I've taken for well over a year, I'm at a loss. I even tried the boob growing formula around my eyes every day for 60 days, no new subcutaneous fat whatsoever. While my skin looks great for my age there has been no real progress in the deep wrinkle department (only when I smile) which leads me to think that the problem isn't skin, but bone.

 

Specifically bone loss in the orbital process of the zygomatic and maxilla bones. There's plenty of published articles out there about this, mostly dating back to 2010 if you Google. The bone loss begins and the orbitals widen and sink inward as volume is lost.

 

Since I was 35, for about 7 years, the skin under my eyes have begun to sink and become baggier when I smile, my eyes suddenly show deep crow's feet at that point. In young people you can see these bags to varying degrees but they are narrow and do not extend too far below the eye. They haven't lost that bone yet.

 

Is there any known way to increase and recover bone density in such a way that targets those specific bones? Besides boxing I mean lol, I don't wanna get punched and I don't think that works very well, plus, you know, brain damage.

 

Maybe we can brainstorm something. I wonder if there is anything new on the market that can somehow be injected right there to promote bone regrowth and remineralization, in such a way as not to look deformed of course.

 

Are you sure it's not just the fat pads under your eyes not depleting? Have you ever considered fillers now until a better solution comes up?



#49 Nate-2004

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:26 PM

 

 

Well...your nick name says it all. :)

 

Aconita, after continuous use of hydrolyzed collagen, Collagen II, oral and topical hyaluronic acid, topical and oral ceramides as well as regular vitamin D and K, most of which I've taken for well over a year, I'm at a loss. I even tried the boob growing formula around my eyes every day for 60 days, no new subcutaneous fat whatsoever. While my skin looks great for my age there has been no real progress in the deep wrinkle department (only when I smile) which leads me to think that the problem isn't skin, but bone.

 

Specifically bone loss in the orbital process of the zygomatic and maxilla bones. There's plenty of published articles out there about this, mostly dating back to 2010 if you Google. The bone loss begins and the orbitals widen and sink inward as volume is lost.

 

Since I was 35, for about 7 years, the skin under my eyes have begun to sink and become baggier when I smile, my eyes suddenly show deep crow's feet at that point. In young people you can see these bags to varying degrees but they are narrow and do not extend too far below the eye. They haven't lost that bone yet.

 

Is there any known way to increase and recover bone density in such a way that targets those specific bones? Besides boxing I mean lol, I don't wanna get punched and I don't think that works very well, plus, you know, brain damage.

 

Maybe we can brainstorm something. I wonder if there is anything new on the market that can somehow be injected right there to promote bone regrowth and remineralization, in such a way as not to look deformed of course.

 

Are you sure it's not just the fat pads under your eyes not depleting? Have you ever considered fillers now until a better solution comes up?

 

 

 

I suspect bone loss more so given my diet in my mid to late thirties. It was not too sufficient in D and K and no where near as nutritious as it has been over the last 4 years. I really don't think it's a loss of fat but it could be some fat pad loss. While I have no fine lines nor wrinkles when not smiling (only dark circles under the eyes), there are deep wrinkles there and around my eyes when I do. 



#50 aconita

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:39 PM

Bone loss might be certainly a contributing factor but I am afraid there isn't much that can be done in that department.

 

There are 3 factors at play: bone loss, subcutaneous fat loss, malar pad laxity.

 

I understand that in despite bone loss is a factor it would not be a major one, at least until really advanced age.

 

Subcutaneous fat loss and malar pad laxity are likely the main actors.

 

Malar pads don't get a loss, they become lax and drop, result is nasolabial folds and hollow under-eyes (sometimes black circles and/or wrinkles too).

 

A skillful plastic surgeon can lift them back up but you'll need a really good one and quite a bit of money.

 

What kind of boobs growing did you use?

 

I am experimenting about this issue and about to start a couple of new protocols...

 

Fillers and fat grafts are damn expensive and don't last more than 1 year or so...and some procedures do carry some risks too.

 

Don't be discouraged, this isn't an easy goal to achieve otherwise everybody would look fantastic and plastic surgeons would all be unemployed.


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#51 Nate-2004

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:57 PM

Do they know what causes malar pad laxity and subcutaneous fat loss?

 

I was using the "Genetix Organic Enhancement Oil" from here: https://www.genetixo...enhancement-oil



#52 Oakman

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:06 AM

What I've often pondered studying the passing multitudes of eye bags people have, is:

 

- Why is there such a huge variation in the size and depth of people's eye bags, seemingly irrespective of age (to some extent)

- Some people look like there is something detached and fallen down, while others seem to have dark skin there too, almost like makeup

 

There just doesn't seem to be any 'normal', people's eye bags are literally all over the place. Could lifestyle and health play a major role or is it strictly genetic? 



#53 aconita

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:12 AM

That Genetix oil doesn't look right to me because sarsapogenin content might be likely too low (too many other compounds in it and of phytoextrogenic nature, which isn't the way to go in my view), besides being outrageously expensive!

 

The compounds that should offer the best chances of results are volufiline and voluplus, those two work on different pathways, in combination MIGHT give better results, if I have to choose only one I would go for voluplus (see researches).

 

Argassential is another one worth attention and specifically conceived for facial fat loss, good research supporting it.

 

Lifestyle and genetics do play a role, of course, but even if some aspects of the issue can and should be addressed by optimizing at least the lifestyle/nutrition part of the equation that alone doesn't necessarily leads to a fully satisfying result.

 

Do they know what causes malar pad laxity and subcutaneous fat loss?

 

 

Aging, my friend.

 

Well, one can speed up or slow down the process of course, like in general aging.

 

  - Some people look like there is something detached and fallen down, while others seem to have dark skin there too, almost like makeup

 

"Bags under eyes — mild swelling or puffiness under the eyes — are common as you age. With aging, the tissues around your eyes, including some of the muscles supporting your eyelids, weaken. Normal fat that helps support the eyes can then move into the lower eyelids, causing the lids to appear puffy. Fluid also may accumulate in the space below your eyes, adding to the swelling."

 

http://www.mayoclini...on/CON-20034185

 

I don't agree with muscles weakening part, that should eventually lead to an eyelid drop, not to an under eye bag.

 

If swelling changes from day to day or by applying cold compresses it likely indicates fluid accumulation, otherwise is more likely fat dropping.

 

"Fatigue is the most common cause of dark circles under your eyes. Sometimes, what appear to be dark circles under your eyes may merely be shadows cast by puffy eyelids or hollows under your eyes that develop as a normal part of aging."

 

http://www.mayoclini...es/sym-20050624

 

Lifestyle and/or fat loss likely the main actors here.



#54 Nate-2004

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:54 AM

 

 

Do they know what causes malar pad laxity and subcutaneous fat loss?

 

 

Aging, my friend.

 

Well, one can speed up or slow down the process of course, like in general aging.

 

 

I was asking more specifically in terms of what aspect of aging and how. Like, if it is AGEs then what are they doing specifically to cause the laxity. Because knowing that I think you could at least try to counter it until AGE breakers are a thing.


Edited by Nate-2004, 03 October 2017 - 01:58 AM.


#55 sthira

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:51 PM

-- PolarityTE today announced that the Company’s lead product, SkinTE™, has been registered with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) pursuant to applicable regulations governing human cells, tissues, and cellular and tissue-based products (HCT/Ps). SkinTE™ is an autologous, minimally manipulated construct intended for homologous uses of skin tissues. As an FDA-registered HCT/P, SkinTE™ may now be made available for appropriate human use in the United States. PolarityTE™ has initiated a controlled, limited-market release of the product to select medical institutions, and expects to accelerate commercialization in 2018 as the company scales up manufacturing efforts.

“The FDA registration of SkinTE™ is an important regulatory step that sets the stage for commercialization and a staged market entry of this revolutionary technology into clinical application,” said Denver M. Lough, M.D., Ph.D., Chief Executive Officer of PolarityTE™. “This achievement enables us to deliver an entirely new and pragmatic solution for skin regeneration as well as the ability to change the face and practice of regenerative medicine toward patient-tailored tissue constructs.”

In pre-clinical studies, SkinTE™ demonstrated full-thickness regenerative healing, nascent hair follicle formation, cutaneous appendage development, immediate and complete wound coverage, and the progressive regeneration of all skin layers including epidermis, dermis and hypodermal layers. (www.PolarityTE.com/products/SkinTE).

“This progressively-staged market release of SkinTE™ to select institutions will give the Polarity team time to scale manufacturing processes and facilities to meet future demands of SkinTE™ as well as other tissue substrate technologies we have in our translational development pipeline,” said Edward W. Swanson, M.D., Chief Operating Officer of PolarityTE™.

About SkinTE™ and FDA Tissue Establishment Registration
SkinTE™ is regulated by the FDA as an HCT/P solely under Section 361 of the Public Health Service Act and 21 CFR 1271. The FDA has specific regulations governing HCT/Ps. HCT/Ps that meet the criteria for regulation solely under Section 361 of the Public Health Service Act and 21 CFR 1271 (361 HCT/Ps) are not subject to pre-market clearance or approval requirements, but are subject to post-market regulatory requirements.

SkinTE™ is processed and marketed in accordance with the FDA’s requirements for human tissue and current good tissue practices (21 CFR 1271) and is manufactured by American Association of Tissue Banks (AATB)- and Foundation for the Accreditation of Cellular Therapy (FACT)-accredited facilities.

Important Safety Information
Poor general medical condition or any pathology that would limit the blood supply and compromise healing, as well as nonvascular surgical sites, should be considered when selecting patients for SkinTE™, as such conditions may compromise successful outcomes or lead to sub-optimal results.

Whenever clinical circumstances require implantation in a site that is contaminated or infected, appropriate local and/or systemic anti-infective measures must be taken. Unused or expired tissue product should be discarded according to local, state, federal and institutional requirements. Utilization of the SkinTE™ construct, process and/or technology is limited to healthcare professionals and facilities that are capable of handling such tissue products.

Proper aseptic procedural and/or surgical handling is mandatory when using SkinTE™. Failure to ensure proper aseptic technique may result in contamination of the tissue product and wound bed. Contamination of the tissue product and/or wound bed due to failure to ensure aseptic technique could result in local, regional, or systemic infection, partial or complete failure of graft take, healing, and/or regeneration, serious injury, and/or death. Failure to follow instructions may lead to sub-optimal outcomes and/or product failure.

Potential adverse effects may include but are not limited to the following: local tissue, wound bed, regional tissue, or systemic infection, hypersensitive, allergic, or other immune response to the product or trace amounts of antibiotic retained from primary harvest, deleterious effects on potential surrounding or adjacent autologous, allogeneic, or xenogenic grafts, skin substitutes, or other reconstructions including infection and/or failure of adjacent grafted material to take and heal, requirement for further surgical operation(s) and/or debridement, or death
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#56 Nate-2004

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:32 PM

Appears they're probably only approved for burn victims not cosmetic, voluntary patients. This is what irritates me most about the FDA. The regulation of purpose and intent.


Edited by Nate-2004, 03 October 2017 - 01:32 PM.

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#57 AppliedBio

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:41 PM

I've recently come to the conclusion that a perfect skincare regime will not do much to make your face appear younger overall. It is the manipulation of  the deeper connective / structural tissues via plastic surgery that allow for truly dramatic results. Have you ever seen any of the absurd before and after shots of people who underwent plastic surgery in South Korea? This thread on purseblog is quite illuminating. Here is a Before and After of a 51 year old woman: 

 

 

Before

 

 

 

After

 

 

Eyelid Fat Grafting Before and After:

 

She had three main operations done.

 

1. Full face fat grafting. This was done at MVP clinic in South Korea. The results from the eyelid grafting in particular were incredible. It does come with a couple of caveats, however. In the extreme case, it can result in permanent blindness because the requires an incision into the supratrochlear artery. This is a risk with fillers as well. Additionally, several follow ups will likely be necessary since ~40% disappeared after the first year alone. The after photo was taken after two touch-up visits.  

 

2. Chin shaving - this is traditionally done via osteotomy, however she had it done via ultrasonic knife or "sonopet." This was performed by Lucian Ion in the UK and apparently results in less trauma and pain, and much quicker recovery time. Don't know much about the process beyond that. 

 

3. Rhinoplasty + lip lift. Both were done in the UK. Lip lift was performed earlier this year, but the rhino took place 15 - 20 years ago. Not sure if she had anything done more recently.

 

She also had a hair transplant done using the follicular unit transplant (FUT) method whereby hair follicles from the back of scalp were transplanted to the front to improve her hairline.

 

Re: Skeletal changes that take place in the face / skull

Age-related bone loss is not uniform and occurs in specific regions of the skull. This article provides a good overview of some specific skeletal changes that take place with age: https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22580543.

Do note, however, that Certain parts of the skull continue to grow and thicken with age. From the paper:

 

More than 40 years ago, Enlow [16] followed the growth of the facial skeleton longitudinally from infancy to young adulthood by means of serial cephalometrograms and noted that the entire face becomes longer vertically, deeper in the anterior posterior plane, and wider in the transverse dimension. The following specific changes occur with growth: increasing protrusion of the glabella; expansion of the supraorbital ridges; lateral translation of the orbits; increase in the depth and lateral expansion of the cheeks; increase in length, width, and vertical dimensions of the nose; and increase in vertical height in the occlusal region associated with increased chin prominence. 

 

 

 

As far as subcutaneous fat loss, I purchased this Gluteboost product last week. It is marketed as a butt enhancement cream, which supposedly contains 5% Volufiline and 5% Voluplus. I have started applying it twice a day along my infraorbital rim, laterally to my malar eminence, and then superiorly to my temples. No idea if it will work, but I will continue use for ~6 months and see if it helps at all.

 

Of course, all this is not reason to abandon an aggressive skincare regimen. There are limits to plastic surgery and an impeccably grafted face can only do so much if skin has been neglected its entire life. I don't think these results would have been possible had the quality of her skin been in the gutter. In this woman's case before pic, you can see that her skin prior to the operation may have not been flawless, but it didn't appear to be in particularly poor condition. So the takeaway seems to be that good / decent skin is a prerequisite for the stunning rejuvenating transformations that can only be achieved via talented plastic surgeons.


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#58 Nate-2004

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:41 PM

If fat grafting is that high risk on top of a 40% loss in the first year of what you were trying to accomplish, it doesn't sound worth it.

 

As far as skull bone changes with age, that sucks. That means to get back where we were at 20 there would have to be some real bone surgery on the skull and I can't imagine how one would pull that off. I doubt any rejuvenation medicine will ever take care of the changes to the skull no matter how much you reverse age.



#59 sthira

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:27 PM

AIVITA Biomedical Announces New Discovery with Applications to Regenerative Medicine, Skin Aging and Hair Growth

Company discovers new methods of capturing and using short-range intercellular signals to stimulate a healthy cell environment

IRVINE, Calif. September 19, 2017 – AIVITA Biomedical today announced the discovery of a new method for capturing and using intercellular signaling molecules to induce the reactivation of stem cell niches. The implication of this discovery is the ability to preserve or restore the microenvironment in which stem cells can self-renew and promote the healthy growth and maintenance of human tissue. AIVITA is already applying the technology in skin care, where it can be used to effectively recreate the microenvironment in which young, healthy skin thrives. The discovery is the result of its ongoing research into cell biology and aging, and is the subject of an international patent application the Company has submitted to the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO).

“The applications of this discovery in anti-aging skin care are very exciting, but the technology’s potential extends well beyond the skin,” said Dr. Gabriel Nistor, Chief Science Officer of AIVITA. “Such a technology can also be applied to hair loss and thinning associated with a diminished stem cell niche.”

Dr. Nistor added that the ability to understand and interact with short range inter-cell communications exceeds the potential of current hormone and growth factor technologies.

The Company is applying this technology in a new cosmetic line that is currently undergoing clinical testing. A version of the technology using different cell-to-cell signals is also being developed for hair regeneration.

“Our research team continues to make advancements which harness the natural functions of stem cells for remarkable therapeutic benefit,” said Dr. Hans Keirstead, CEO of AIVITA. “The potential this technology has for skin care, hair care, and regenerative medicine should get people excited. We certainly are.”
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#60 AppliedBio

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 11:09 PM

Haha don't be so pessimistic Nate. If we can design and engineer rockets, intricate skyscrapers, Large Hadron Colliders, and other massive complex structures, I am confident that our engineers of the face will be able to offer comprehensive hard tissue rejuvenation. Several facial contouring procedures are widely available in South Korea. V-line surgery is extremely there and that involves cutting the mandible. A similar operation can be done on the zygoma. Additionally, several places now offer full skull bone contouring which basically allows them to sculpt the side / back of the head. Those regions of the skull tend to be extremely overlooked and play a critical role in someone's perceived age, IMO. Because often it is pretty easy to estimate (or at the very least put boundaries on) someone's age just looking at back of the head alone, especially in men. Here is an overview of the process from Item Clinic. I think It's only a matter of time before they start to offer even more precise bone augmentation / reduction procedures in more sensitive areas like the periorbital area. I'm currently 26 and considering getting a complete head CT (+MRI??) so that in 25 years I can just bring the images to plastic surgeons and be like, "Make me look like this again."

 


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