93 replies to this topic

[YOLF]

If fat grafting is that high risk on top of a 40% loss in the first year of what you were trying to accomplish, it doesn't sound worth it.

 

As far as skull bone changes with age, that sucks. That means to get back where we were at 20 there would have to be some real bone surgery on the skull and I can't imagine how one would pull that off. I doubt any rejuvenation medicine will ever take care of the changes to the skull no matter how much you reverse age.

Well, aside from transplanting a brain into a bioprinted body, which will probably become possible someday, it is possible that restoration of supporting tissues and organ systems will restore healthy growth and some of the bone structure will return. Our bones also shrink a little and have mechanisms for remodelling. I think it will be possible with enough study to get something approximating youth very closely. I wouldn't give up hope just yet.

 

I'll also say that pregnenolone and HMB will do wonders for the structure/shape of tissues in the face. So restoring the organ systems that manage your sex and growth hormones will go further than you might think. I'm not aware of any studies done on HMB for it's cosmetic benefits (I take about 1.5-5g/day, though I'm not sure how much is really necessary for optimal results, I originally started using it for muscle as an alternative to creatine as that stuff made my skin look older (texture) despite making the muscle underneath look younger). Pregnenolone might actually have had some oral cosmetic studies done.  

[YOLF]

Haha don't be so pessimistic Nate. If we can design and engineer rockets, intricate skyscrapers, Large Hadron Colliders, and other massive complex structures, I am confident that our engineers of the face will be able to offer comprehensive hard tissue rejuvenation. Several facial contouring procedures are widely available in South Korea. V-line surgery is extremely there and that involves cutting the mandible. A similar operation can be done on the zygoma. Additionally, several places now offer full skull bone contouring which basically allows them to sculpt the side / back of the head. Those regions of the skull tend to be extremely overlooked and play a critical role in someone's perceived age, IMO. Because often it is pretty easy to estimate (or at the very least put boundaries on) someone's age just looking at back of the head alone, especially in men. Here is an overview of the process from Item Clinic. I think It's only a matter of time before they start to offer even more precise bone augmentation / reduction procedures in more sensitive areas like the periorbital area. I'm currently 26 and considering getting a complete head CT (+MRI??) so that in 25 years I can just bring the images to plastic surgeons and be like, "Make me look like this again."

So what hormones and what not are responsible for driving these changes? Perhaps high DHT or diminishing sex hormones? It would be interesting to track bone structure changes in disease states and see how they effect bone growth. What of people who get comprehensive hormone replacement therapy? How do their bones grow? Perhaps we can send the new age meter to places like cenegenics(sp?) to do some of this? 

[Jiminy Glick]

Wash your face with black currant oil or hemp oil. 

[ironfistx]

 

any known way to increase and recover bone density in such a way that targets those specific bones? Besides boxing I mean lol, I don't wanna get punched and I don't think that works very well, plus, you know, brain damage.

 

Maybe we can brainstorm something. I wonder if there is anything new on the market that can somehow be injected right there to promote bone regrowth and remineralization, in such a way as not to look deformed of course.

 

 

http://www.longecity...cise-and-aging/
 

[Nate-2004]

 

 

any known way to increase and recover bone density in such a way that targets those specific bones? Besides boxing I mean lol, I don't wanna get punched and I don't think that works very well, plus, you know, brain damage.

 

Maybe we can brainstorm something. I wonder if there is anything new on the market that can somehow be injected right there to promote bone regrowth and remineralization, in such a way as not to look deformed of course.

 

 

http://www.longecity...cise-and-aging/
 

 

 

Yeah that is not the route I wanna take.

[YOLF]

 

 

any known way to increase and recover bone density in such a way that targets those specific bones? Besides boxing I mean lol, I don't wanna get punched and I don't think that works very well, plus, you know, brain damage.

 

Maybe we can brainstorm something. I wonder if there is anything new on the market that can somehow be injected right there to promote bone regrowth and remineralization, in such a way as not to look deformed of course.

 

 

http://www.longecity...cise-and-aging/
 

 

 Wrinkles on the face come from the build up of advanced glycation end products (AGEs)... it has nothing to do with working out. Athletes in general have poorer health later on in life. Martial arts will take it's toll as will most any other legitimate calorie burning sport. But yeah, sports are fun and we like to be high on life and life would be boring without some form of recreational sport. If you want to keep working out and doing what you enjoy, you should definitely work towards the removal of AGEs as doing so will allow your organ systems to support indefinite sport recovery as well as indefinite youth. You my friend, could have the opportunity to deliver indefinite ass kicking to your sparring partners(or visa versa)!

Edited by YOLF, 05 October 2017 - 03:33 AM.

[AppliedBio]

Maybe we can brainstorm something. I wonder if there is anything new on the market that can somehow be injected right there to promote bone regrowth and remineralization, in such a way as not to look deformed of course.

You mean like injecting Forteo right into your face? I hope you have a large stock of anesthetic on hand...

[ironfistx]

 

 

 

any known way to increase and recover bone density in such a way that targets those specific bones? Besides boxing I mean lol, I don't wanna get punched and I don't think that works very well, plus, you know, brain damage.

 

Maybe we can brainstorm something. I wonder if there is anything new on the market that can somehow be injected right there to promote bone regrowth and remineralization, in such a way as not to look deformed of course.

 

 

http://www.longecity...cise-and-aging/
 

 

 

Yeah that is not the route I wanna take.

 

 

What about light striking using just your fingers?  It may keep the bones dense, according to the concept.

[Nate-2004]

Highly unlikely. I think all the info Sthira, AppliedBio and Aconita posted have promise. Not sure when the therapies that Sthira posted about are going to be available in the U.S. but perhaps I can find it in SK or elsewhere.

[sthira]

Nate, I can't find the link for this quote, but when I read it I copied and pasted it. It may have come from fafner55 in one of the dasatinib threads.

I haven't tried this, but maybe you?

"Topical Dasatinib Treatment to Improve Skin"

Topical dasatinib treatment of UVB-exposed SKH1 hairless mice reduced the total tumor burden (ie, benign tumors, atypical benign tumors, squamous cell carcinomas) per mouse. It might be effective in improving skin in humans.
1. “Old Concept, New Drug: Topical Application of Systemic Antineoplastic Agent to Treat Skin Cancer” http://www.mdedge.co...ation-systemic 
2. “Targeting Fyn in Ras-transformed cells induces F-actin to promote adherens junction-mediated cell–cell adhesion” (2014) http://onlinelibrary....22190/abstract
 
Since 120 mg dasatinib taken orally resulted in minor sloughing of my skin ( the bulk of sun damaged skin remains) I can assume that 120 mg / body weight is a minimum starting dose for topical treatment.
 
Ratioing 120 mg / 70 kg body weight to the approximate weight of my skin (8.8 kg) gives 15.1 mg dasatinib for my entire skin. 
 
I found that 1 tbsp (15 gm) of body lotion is needed to cover my entire body. That amount, mixed with 15 mg Dasatinib is my starting point. 
 
Building on other experience, I ground and added 400 mg honokiol. Unlike many other polyphenols, honokiol is white and does not stain, making it a good candidate for increasing the effects of dasatinib.
 
For the base I used either Cerave lotion or DMSO 70%.
* Cerave lotion is well absorbed by the skin and does not feel greasy. 
* DMSO 70% penetrates better than lotion and can be applied to lips and hair.
 
After much experimentation I found this mixture to potently treat sun damaged skin. It is best to start slowly, such as
* Apply once then wait a few days. Skin will redden and will improve without peeling. One application will visibly improve sun damaged skin.
* After several rounds of single application treatments, increase the dose to two applications an hour or so apart, letting the first application be fully absorbed. Wait a few days or do this once/week. 
* Skin with severe sun damage, such as the back of hands, might need three applications in a day. Do this once and wait two weeks. Three applications to the face will cause minor peeling that can persist two weeks or longer.
* Do not apply 4 applications in a day. That dose has the effect of a medium depth chemical peel, such as with TCA. Going slower is safer and effective.
 
This mixture is potent and dangerous. Three applications / day for five successive days resulted in tingling and numbness on my face.  Fortunately, the nerves were stunned, not killed, and feeling returned to normal in about a week. Neuropathy is a possible side effect of dasatinib.
 
The improvement to my skin has been remarkable. Small keratoses have disappeared (some larger ones receded but remain), skin roughness improved, hyperpigmented spots receded or disappeared, loose skin on my neck tightened and fine wrinkles are much reduced. Overall, the appearance of skin on my face and neck improved by at least 15 years.
 
I plan to continue with one application/week for the next couple of months."

[sthira]

I guess one hurdle for this kinda self-experimentation is the lack of good assays. But moderately wiping small amounts of dasatinib -- stuff's dangerous -- in a skin carrier might be interesting and provide visual clues of improvements. If you tried, say, on the sad backs of them beaten and withered hands, you might actually see something.

Entirely guessing, of course, if you try, hey maybe snap photos before and after, and tell us about it: "Hey lookee here how this dasatinib mix actually made a visible difference in hands!"

The results in mice seem impressive, and I'd speculate we all have plenty of senescent cells awaiting death on the backs of our hands.

[Nate-2004]

Sounds great for sun damage or fine wrinkles but I don't think I have either of those problems yet, luckily. My only noticeable signs of age are around the eyes, I think bone loss and as aconita mentioned, malar fat pad laxity and subcutaneous fat loss. 

 

Our best bet is in a complete understanding about what specific aging process causes malar fat pad laxity and the baby fat loss that happens from 35 onward. I'm 43, here is what I look like two weeks ago. One of my better pictures actually, but those big deep lines around the sides and wrinkly bags didn't appear around and under my eyes till I was 35. There's also this not smiling pic from July. Contrast these with this one and this one, both from about 13 years ago. Wish I had some earlier ones that are better examples and I'm sure I do somewhere. 

 

I'll delete those in a few days so if you can't click them, you've time traveled several days into the future.

Edited by Nate-2004, 06 October 2017 - 12:34 AM.

[Nate-2004]

Oh and to get this look back... 24 years ago.

[bosharpe]

Our best bet is in a complete understanding about what specific aging process causes malar fat pad laxity and the baby fat loss that happens from 35 onward. I'm 43, here is what I look like two weeks ago. One of my better pictures actually, but those big deep lines around the sides and wrinkly bags didn't appear around and under my eyes till I was 35. There's also this not smiling pic from July. Contrast these with this one and this one, both from about 13 years ago. Wish I had some earlier ones that are better examples and I'm sure I do somewhere. 

 

I'm 31 now but have been fully aware that this will occur a little further down the line. I do what I can to slow (or at least not speed up) general aging, have a great skincare routine but due to knowledge gaps/lack of technology, at the moment I would approach the eye area problem with something like fillers. I know a least a couple of people on this forum already use this option and one is younger than me. 

 

I would be interested also in specifically what causes this and if anything that delay or reduce.  

[Nate-2004]

70+ days of trying voluplus on face, no change whatsoever that I can tell. That's a wash pretty much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[al3x]

Will be soon receiving and trying out a cream that contains, besides sarsasapogenin the active ingredient in Volufiline, something called macelignan, retrieved from nutmeg. There are some studies that show its help in fat cell proliferation and collagen genesis:

 

https://www.cellular...umping-complex/

 

I have also seen a couple of videos from someone who tried 100% concentration Volufiline and the before and after pictures really showed a difference:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=95LBJzo8hV8

https://www.youtube....h?v=jTwmDNKd78k

[bosharpe]

Will be soon receiving and trying out a cream that contains, besides sarsasapogenin the active ingredient in Volufiline, something called macelignan, retrieved from nutmeg. There are some studies that show its help in fat cell proliferation and collagen genesis:

 

https://www.cellular...umping-complex/

 

I have also seen a couple of videos from someone who tried 100% concentration Volufiline and the before and after pictures really showed a difference:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=95LBJzo8hV8

https://www.youtube....h?v=jTwmDNKd78k

 

Interesting. Please update us when you test it.

[al3x]

Now i am trying the hyaluronic acid evolve of lower molecular weight with shower before, mineral water sprayed after, and a face oil with rosehip in the end which has vitamin c. It's recommended to have a wet face to draw moisture from for the HA and then to close it up with something occluding like an oil or mosturizer.

 

The Face Plump one looks like you would have to paint it on your face exactly where you want it like the girl does in the videos.

 

later edit: oops, looks like rosehip oil doesn't have vitamin c. still, the pixi oils feel good

Edited by al3x, 18 January 2020 - 02:20 AM.

[al3x]

And a bit of massage with the ice roller afterwards, feels awesome.

[Adamzski]

Well, aside from transplanting a brain into a bioprinted body, which will probably become possible someday, it is possible that restoration of supporting tissues and organ systems will restore healthy growth and some of the bone structure will return. Our bones also shrink a little and have mechanisms for remodelling. I think it will be possible with enough study to get something approximating youth very closely. I wouldn't give up hope just yet.

 

I'll also say that pregnenolone and HMB will do wonders for the structure/shape of tissues in the face. So restoring the organ systems that manage your sex and growth hormones will go further than you might think. I'm not aware of any studies done on HMB for it's cosmetic benefits (I take about 1.5-5g/day, though I'm not sure how much is really necessary for optimal results, I originally started using it for muscle as an alternative to creatine as that stuff made my skin look older (texture) despite making the muscle underneath look younger). Pregnenolone might actually have had some oral cosmetic studies done.  

 

Hi how sure are you that HMB has this effect? And, how do you think it does it? Creatine is well known to cause bloating and yeah for some people that may work. 

I have a bunch of an expensive HMB called "Clear Muscle" Only ever took it  for a day or two, may try it out again.

[Nate-2004]

Will be soon receiving and trying out a cream that contains, besides sarsasapogenin the active ingredient in Volufiline, something called macelignan, retrieved from nutmeg. There are some studies that show its help in fat cell proliferation and collagen genesis:

 

https://www.cellular...umping-complex/

 

I have also seen a couple of videos from someone who tried 100% concentration Volufiline and the before and after pictures really showed a difference:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=95LBJzo8hV8

https://www.youtube....h?v=jTwmDNKd78k

 

Almost a month of doing this, nothing so far....

 

Nothing works except maybe Juviderm and that shit is expensive. I did it last year and honestly I don't know if even that was good enough to be all that noticeable. Literally nobody commented. It's kind of hard to fill the right places without looking weird.

[JR7]

Fat grafting sounds like the only realistic option at this point

[bosharpe]

Options are pretty abismal right now  I hope something exists before I reach the tail end of my 30s...

[al3x]

Almost a month of doing this, nothing so far....

 

Nothing works except maybe Juviderm and that shit is expensive. I did it last year and honestly I don't know if even that was good enough to be all that noticeable. Literally nobody commented. It's kind of hard to fill the right places without looking weird.

 

Guessing you're also doing the diet part, no refined carbs, no sugar, plenty of vegetables, some intermittent fasting. Without those no cream can do wonders.

[Nate-2004]

Guessing you're also doing the diet part, no refined carbs, no sugar, plenty of vegetables, some intermittent fasting. Without those no cream can do wonders.

 

lol no, that's absurd

 

Also I get plenty of veggies and I don't eat a lot of refined carbs and do intermittent fasting, so no, it's not that. It's that it doesn't work. Nothing that works should have to depend on diet, otherwise it's the diet that is helping, not the thing you're wiping on your face.  I don't need to eat a special diet for ibuprofen to fix a headache. It just works.

[motorcitykid]

lol no, that's absurd

 

Also I get plenty of veggies and I don't eat a lot of refined carbs and do intermittent fasting, so no, it's not that. It's that it doesn't work. Nothing that works should have to depend on diet, otherwise it's the diet that is helping, not the thing you're wiping on your face.  I don't need to eat a special diet for ibuprofen to fix a headache. It just works.

 

Here ya go!

https://www.mtfbiolo...s/detail/renuva

[al3x]

lol no, that's absurd

 

Also I get plenty of veggies and I don't eat a lot of refined carbs and do intermittent fasting, so no, it's not that. It's that it doesn't work. Nothing that works should have to depend on diet, otherwise it's the diet that is helping, not the thing you're wiping on your face.  I don't need to eat a special diet for ibuprofen to fix a headache. It just works.

 

Your analogies are out of place. Sugar and refined carbs break your skin's collagen, it's not absurd, your reaction is absurd when i was trying to help out. You can of course eat trans fats by the spoon and numb you out with a jar of ibuprofen, it won't fix the problem.

[YOLF]

Hi how sure are you that HMB has this effect? And, how do you think it does it? Creatine is well known to cause bloating and yeah for some people that may work. 

I have a bunch of an expensive HMB called "Clear Muscle" Only ever took it  for a day or two, may try it out again.

 

At this point I haven't used it in a while, but I would expect the cosmetic effects of keto would apply. My confidence level was high at the time that it was having this affect, though I eventually switched to a regimen that I liked better and haven't tried adding it back as my reserves are pretty low unless I decide to go on a capsule filling crusade. There are some new butyric acid supplements  (NaMB, CaMB, and MgMB iirc) which are composed of similar metabolites. I'm not remembering the name of it though... but it has something to do with Keto and a combination of mineral conjugates.

 

Maybe do some before and after pics?

 

Oh, I think another reason I may have stopped taking it has to do with stearates... I don't burn them well and I get a little foggy if I start forcing them into cells... most supplements are full of the stuff... so it actually limits the amount or variety of them that I can take without spending more on supps.
 

[YOLF]

lol no, that's absurd

 

Also I get plenty of veggies and I don't eat a lot of refined carbs and do intermittent fasting, so no, it's not that. It's that it doesn't work. Nothing that works should have to depend on diet, otherwise it's the diet that is helping, not the thing you're wiping on your face.  I don't need to eat a special diet for ibuprofen to fix a headache. It just works.

 

I'd have to disagree, I get headaches for a variety of reasons, be it food related or environmental... some of which won't benefit at all from any OTC pain killer, and I doubt the conventional Rx varieties would work either. But a good diet, a laxative in the case of food issues, or a stand alone stimulant (chemical/environmental) will work wonders in these cases. What I'm getting at is that you want as much in your favor as possible unless you're looking for improvement through autophagy.

[Nate-2004]

Your analogies are out of place. Sugar and refined carbs break your skin's collagen, it's not absurd, your reaction is absurd when i was trying to help out. You can of course eat trans fats by the spoon and numb you out with a jar of ibuprofen, it won't fix the problem.

 

I get that refined carbs break skin collagen, but this isn't why the substance isn't working to regrow subcutaneous fat. My analogy is just making the point that if there is a claim that a substance does _____ then it should do ____ regardless of anything else you do.  The fact that I'm *already* doing my best to avoid refined carbs and also intermittent fasting, means that this substance doesn't work and won't work regardless of what I do in addition. 

 

Here's a better analogy: Giving someone a pill to take to help them pass a history exam the next day, while telling them to study and memorize the material that will be on the test or the pill won't work. The claim that the pill causes passing the test is absurd here. The pill is a useless addition.