16 replies to this topic

[EyeKicker]

I have a ton of Magnesium Citrate and I was wondering what would be the optimum dose? Do you guys think it would be preferable to get the DV of Mg or to be conscious of how much Calcium of may be ingesting so that I can keep the balance. Because I'm not so sure I'm getting the DV of Calcium and I don't want to throw off my body's mineral balance.

[Dorian Grey]

Magnesium being the most common mineral deficiency makes it a wise choice to supplement modestly.  I have a pill cutter and cut mine down to 100mg doses.  

 

Calcium on the other hand is one of those supps some feel may be unwise; calcifications in the body becoming a common problem as we age.  

 

Personally, I don't feel low dose mag would throw your cal/mag ratios out of whack, but if I were going to supplement calcium, I'd cut it down to a minimal dose.  

 

Minerals are also notorious gut-busters (stomach irritation), and this is yet another reason I stick to low doses of mag & zinc and look to diet to take care of the other macro's and trace minerals.  My low dose mag has an interesting side effect of calming me down and helping me to sleep if I take it in the evening.  See if you notice this.  

Edited by synesthesia, 21 May 2016 - 12:45 AM.

[SearchHorizon]

I have read that the ideal ratio of calcium to magnesium is approximately 1:1.  

 

Personally, I take about 750 mg calcium every third day. I take magnesium 650 grams of magnesium over 2 days when I am not taking calcium.

 

Magnesium and calcium compete for absorption - hence the rotation.

 

 

[pamojja]

I have read that the ideal ratio of calcium to magnesium is approximately 1:1.

 

Usually 'one reads' the ideal ratio of Calcium to Magnesium should be 2:1. I think an ideal ratio for supplementation might be closer to 1:2. But then there are very different chemical bio-individualites, which along with variant diets from differently Mg depleted soil make such ratios a mere shoot at a guess.

 

The only way to know if you're not Mg deficient, would be a RBC Mg test. Second best, since this isn't available to me where I live, is whole blood Mg. Serum Mg tests are almost useless. An other option are hair tissue mineral analyses (HTMA), which give you the hair status of up to 30 elements, including toxic ones. But needs someone experienced in interpreting them.
 

Personally developed a severe Mg deficiency from which I get severe muscle-cramps (additional to low lab levels). Over the last years an average dose of 1.4 g elemental Mg helped me to stay free from the cramps. Calculated (with all its maybe erroneous assumptions) my Mg intake from diet is at about 0.6 g/d. Calcium showed deficient in lab tests too. Get that at about 1.1 g from diet and 0.6 from supplements.

 

Therefore, if we want ideal ratios, I think we should also be clear: does it includes minerals from diet?

 

And then test, to see whether it holds true for oneself too.

[tunt01]

 

The only way to know if you're not Mg deficient, would be a RBC Mg test. Second best, since this isn't available to me where I live, is whole blood Mg. Serum Mg tests are almost useless. An other option are hair tissue mineral analyses (HTMA), which give you the hair status of up to 30 elements, including toxic ones. But needs someone experienced in interpreting them.
 

 

What did you target for an optimal level of RBC Magnesium levels? 

 

Thx

[pamojja]

 

The only way to know if you're not Mg deficient, would be a RBC Mg test. Second best, since this isn't available to me where I live, is whole blood Mg. Serum Mg tests are almost useless.

 

What did you target for an optimal level of RBC Magnesium levels? 

 

Thx

 

As stated, I'm unable to get that one. ≥ 6 mg/dl would be optimal (4.2 - 6.8 normal range).
 

[gamesguru]

The magnesium is more important. It in turn actually helps regulate calcium excretion, which, calcium, the body already conseves much better than magnesium, which must be replenished daily in significant amounts, it can come from rice or beans, fruit or mineral water, and interestingly, a portion of red onion increases Mg absorption or bioavailability by 130%.

Edited by gamesguru, 21 May 2016 - 10:24 PM.

[EyeKicker]

The magnesium is more important. It in turn actually helps regulate calcium excretion, which, calcium, the body already conseves much better than magnesium, which must be replenished daily in significant amounts, it can come from rice or beans, fruit or mineral water, and interestingly, a portion of red onion increases Mg absorption or bioavailability by 130%.

Cool thanks, Yeah makes sense! And thanks to everyone else for posting!

[Kinesis]

You want to take into account your diet to determine the right supplementation, but I prefer to balance overall magnesium and calcium in a 1:1 molar ratio, which by weight comes out to about 3:5.  Same number of atoms of each.  So about 300 mg Mg for each 500 mg Ca.  Keep in mind that that's elemental, so you need to account for the weight of the rest of the substance you're actually using.  If it's not stated (e.g. if you're using powders), just look up the molecular weight on Wikipedia to see how much magnesium is in the form you're using,

 

If this seems like more calcium than you expected, consider that the US government recommendation is something like 350 mg magnesium to 1000 mg calcium daily (depending on age and gender), so 1:1 molar already comes out considerably higher in Mg than that.  Plus I've been following nutrient recos long enough to see things go in and out of fashion.  You may be hearing a lot about Mg today and then five-ten years from now something else will be sexier.  Besides, the issue of soft tissue calcium deposition is more about signaling than excess intake.  This is especially clear when people are getting too little Ca in the bones even while getting too much in soft tissues.  According to Life Extension, it's usually due an insufficiency of vitamin K relative to vitamin D.  I would worry more about it for people who are megadosing vitamin D and not commensurately supplementing vitamin K.

 

I think the issue of form has been overemphasized due to marketing.  They're commodity minerals and companies can charge more if they can convince you they've got something special.  Personally I use magnesium carbonate and calcium carbonate.  The unit absorption might be less than with fancier forms, but the stuff is so cheap you can just take more and still come out ahead.  But that would me "more" only in elemental terms, because carbonate is a much smaller molecule than citrate, so you may even wind up taking less overall stuff.  Plus since these are both good antacids, you can take care of your heartburn and get these needed minerals in one fell swoop.  With plenty of acid, they actually absorb pretty well.  I'd prefer citrates really only if I knew my stomach acid to be low, especially if I were taking them with meals, when you don't want your acid to be low.

 

The 1:1 molar ratio, btw, also works nicely for sodium and potassium.

[gamesguru]

I have really bad bruxism but zero fillings, and I also stepped on an erect belt buckle two nights ago... my entire foot is now discoloured and swollen, but no brittle bones, so nothing was broken! I get exactly 500mg calcium and 300mg magnesium, every day for years now. Even with postmenopausal women, I think an approach, besides supplemental calcium, is needed.

Edited by gamesguru, 26 May 2016 - 12:37 AM.

[sativa]

Ensure boron and silica for healthy bone integrity! They serve other important bodily functions also.

I use a drop (or 2)/litre of water of homemade 20% sodium tetraborate solution and add food grade diatomaceous earth to my water which reacts with water slowly over time producing orthosilicic acid.

[gamesguru]

Boron also has the interesting property of reducing SBGH while increasing DHT and free T.

[sativa]

Its a great antifungal too, so I've read.

[gamesguru]

you can get a lot of boron from common fruits, veggies, and nuts

Edited by gamesguru, 27 May 2016 - 01:47 PM.

[sativa]

True. I guess I like to have a constant intake of boron via my 20% solution (with breaks every now and then) in light of soils lacking adequate levels of nutrients and also to counter the somewhat high load of unnatural toxic substances encountered in day to day life.

And of course, for proper calcium assimilation and distribution, adequate vitamin A, D3 and K2

Edited by sativa, 27 May 2016 - 02:09 PM.

[gamesguru]

I don't think so that organic fruits are accompanied by a high load of toxic substances. Vitamin A and K2 are also easily obtainable, as is D2. D3 I just get from Sun exposure really.

Unless the boron solution is made with glass-bottles spring water, it is unlikely to exceed the purity of plant-filtered water.

[sativa]

...and also to counter the somewhat high load of unnatural toxic substances encountered in day to day life.

Oops, my bad wording and lack of contextualisation.

I meant that in the sense of boron aiding detoxification of commonly encountered toxic substances (fluoride, etc)

Yes, I eat organic wherever possible.

For A, D3 and K2 I rely on fermented cod liver oil, sun, and supps.

I don't eat animal sources of those vitamins and the rate of conversion of beta carotene -> "active" vitamin A can vary in efficiency from what I gather.

Edited by sativa, 27 May 2016 - 05:41 PM.