9 replies to this topic

[sushi1992]

Hi all,

 

I posted something earlier but I think it might have been on the wrong part of Longecity so didn't get much feedback.

 

My 57 year old father had a cardiac arrest 80 days ago. He is currently in a minimally conscious state where he is tracking quite a lot with his eyes, moves his arms and head alot, moves his legs and toes very slightly, and takes a very long time if at all to respond to commands (I think the EEG had showed most of the brain activity to be theta waves ~6-7hz).

 

Now, I have been researching supplements for my dad for a long while, and currently, he is only on 6.5g of EPA+DHA fish oil.

 

In terms of choline, he gets choline in his diet/feed (550mg of it per day).

 

Now in terms of supplements to give him, I've been researching on a few. I've ordered some UMP from mindnutritions but I've been looking at a few others. Namely:

-   Phosphatidylserine 

-   Phenylpiracetam 

-   Acetyl L-Carnitine

-   Piracetam (probably can't get that as it has to be prescribed in the UK)

-  Aniracetam

-  Alpha GPC

-  NSI-189

-  Semax Intranasal

-  Noopept Intranasal

-  Creatine

 

Now I should add something very important. My dad had a total gastrectomy 15 years ago, so he does have a sensitivity to certain things and can have reflux (I gave him a probiotic tablet with 50 billion bacteri and he brought up some green bile :( ).

 

Does anyone have any suggestion for a nootropic which could help and maybe not be such a hard hit on someone who doesn't have a stomach? Also, if someone could give more information about the above mentioned that I might not know about, I'd appreciate it.

 

Thanks

[sushi1992]

Anyone have any ideas?

[Junk Master]

I'd try NSI-189 and  Myo-Inositol TrisPyroPhosphate (ITPP).  I might also try compounding the ITPP with Beta-Cyclodextrin.  ITTP is an allosteric effector of hemoglobin and can increase oxygen delivery.  

 

I don't know if it would help your father's condition given your description, and I am NOT a doctor.  

 

In any event, best of luck to you and your father!

[Finn]

I think lack of stomach makes it pretty hard to say what one can handle. Enteric capsules pass stomach in people who do have stomach. But since people without stomach have their intestines already doing overtime processing the under-processed food, person without stomach might not be able to handle some enteric coatined substances that other people can. 

 

Zolpidem, sedative primarily used for the treatment of insomnia, actually wakes up some barely functional people with anoxic brain injury, but no one here uses it as nootropic, because it is a sedative. Some things that put a healthy person to sleep, might awake a person with anoxic brain injury.

 

So brain issues aren't always linear. For example for bipolar disorder, when you have gone only through few manic cycles, certain drugs tend to work better. When you have gone through enough cycles, other drugs that didn't work at all before when you had gone through lower number of cycles start to work. So bipolar that has gotten bad enough isn't treated with higher dose of early stage drugs, but with totally different drugs that don't usually work in early stages.

 

So generic nootropic experience might not apply well to person with hypoxic/anoxic brain injury.

 

I would look Google Scholar for case reports and try to get doctors try some of those things that have worked for some people. 

 

anoxic OR hypoxic brain injury

 

https://scholar.goog...dt=1,5&as_sdtp=

[gamesguru]

Ginkgo biloba extract 761 prevents hypoxia-triggered cardiomyocyte apoptosis through inhibiting mitochondrial and ER stress-induced apoptotic signaling

A Special Extract of Bacopa monnieri (CDRI-08)-Restored Memory in CoCl2-Hypoxia Mimetic Mice Is Associated with Upregulation of Fmr-1 Gene Expression in Hippocampus

Flavonoid Compound Icariin Activates Hypoxia Inducible Factor-1α in Chondrocytes and Promotes Articular Cartilage Repair

[sushi1992]

I'd try NSI-189 and  Myo-Inositol TrisPyroPhosphate (ITPP).  I might also try compounding the ITPP with Beta-Cyclodextrin.  ITTP is an allosteric effector of hemoglobin and can increase oxygen delivery.  

 

I don't know if it would help your father's condition given your description, and I am NOT a doctor.  

 

In any event, best of luck to you and your father!

 

Thanks for this junk master. I can't get hold of NSI-189 in the UK, and for the ITPP, I've heard that some of the side effects are difficulty breathing and anxiety.. so that's a bit off putting for me...

 

Thanks for the wishes . He takes around 30 seconds to start responding to command.. but hopefully he'll get there... it's been 82 days...

[sushi1992]

I think lack of stomach makes it pretty hard to say what one can handle. Enteric capsules pass stomach in people who do have stomach. But since people without stomach have their intestines already doing overtime processing the under-processed food, person without stomach might not be able to handle some enteric coatined substances that other people can. 

 

Zolpidem, sedative primarily used for the treatment of insomnia, actually wakes up some barely functional people with anoxic brain injury, but no one here uses it as nootropic, because it is a sedative. Some things that put a healthy person to sleep, might awake a person with anoxic brain injury.

 

So brain issues aren't always linear. For example for bipolar disorder, when you have gone only through few manic cycles, certain drugs tend to work better. When you have gone through enough cycles, other drugs that didn't work at all before when you had gone through lower number of cycles start to work. So bipolar that has gotten bad enough isn't treated with higher dose of early stage drugs, but with totally different drugs that don't usually work in early stages.

 

So generic nootropic experience might not apply well to person with hypoxic/anoxic brain injury.

 

I would look Google Scholar for case reports and try to get doctors try some of those things that have worked for some people. 

 

anoxic OR hypoxic brain injury

 

https://scholar.goog...dt=1,5&as_sdtp=

Thanks Finn.

 

I've been researching Zolpidem for many weeks. It's not proven to help with everyone but it can help some people with anoxic/hypoxic brain injuries. I'm holding off atm to see how far he progresses in the next couple of weeks. I'm also getting his medical records tomorrow like CT scans and most importantly, the EEG, so I can take a look at it myself. By doing this, I can make comparisons to EEGs where Zolpidem has been effective. There is evidence of this in an article I read, where 3 people with very similar EEGs, used Zolpidem and it helped. These EEGs showed an overall theta activity in the brain (6-7hz) especially in the frontal cortex.

[Adaptogen]

cerebrolysin is probably also worth considering, if it would be possible for you to administer it intramuscularly.  there seems to be a good bit of evidence indicating that it can protect against hypoxic injury and help with recovery from TBI.  http://journals.lww....lysin_on.3.aspx
 

[Junk Master]

IMO seems like Zolpidem is your best bet to have him start responding to command more rapidly.  

 

Having used Zolpidem myself in an attempt to treat idiopathic narcolepsy, I can tell you that in my case I had little trouble with withdrawal symptoms, even after taking it nightly for several months.   I quit cold turkey because I began having odd eating binges late at night and did not remember in the morning (semi rare side effect), and I also did not like the lapses in memory I would get if I fought off the first wave of sleepiness for some reason, and stayed up.  I DID feel like such control over my sleep onset issues, as well as the ease of compliance with my CPAP machine (I also have sleep apnea-- undiagnosed for many years, probably a factor in my narcolepsy), helped me feel a new level of alertness during the day, and as such was very nootropic!  My guess would be it's probably the cessation of Zolpidem that caused my heightened alertness, and lack of brain fog.

 

However, I was just reading on Wikipedia (for what that's worth) that recent studies have shown Zolpidem has a greater anticonvulsant effect than previously thought, it could be these anticonvulsant effects are responsible for some of the improvements?

 

I know that Neurosurgeons frequently prescribe anticonvulsants for post traumatic seizures and inter-cranial hemorrhages prophylactically for up to 6-12 months.   I have no idea if your father was prescribed an anticonvulsant, but that might be worth exploring as well.

Oh, I'm fairly certain you could find a source for NSI-189 in the UK by posting your father's story at the end of the NSI-189 thread here.

[sushi1992]

IMO seems like Zolpidem is your best bet to have him start responding to command more rapidly.  

 

Having used Zolpidem myself in an attempt to treat idiopathic narcolepsy, I can tell you that in my case I had little trouble with withdrawal symptoms, even after taking it nightly for several months.   I quit cold turkey because I began having odd eating binges late at night and did not remember in the morning (semi rare side effect), and I also did not like the lapses in memory I would get if I fought off the first wave of sleepiness for some reason, and stayed up.  I DID feel like such control over my sleep onset issues, as well as the ease of compliance with my CPAP machine (I also have sleep apnea-- undiagnosed for many years, probably a factor in my narcolepsy), helped me feel a new level of alertness during the day, and as such was very nootropic!  My guess would be it's probably the cessation of Zolpidem that caused my heightened alertness, and lack of brain fog.

 

However, I was just reading on Wikipedia (for what that's worth) that recent studies have shown Zolpidem has a greater anticonvulsant effect than previously thought, it could be these anticonvulsant effects are responsible for some of the improvements?

 

I know that Neurosurgeons frequently prescribe anticonvulsants for post traumatic seizures and inter-cranial hemorrhages prophylactically for up to 6-12 months.   I have no idea if your father was prescribed an anticonvulsant, but that might be worth exploring as well.

Oh, I'm fairly certain you could find a source for NSI-189 in the UK by posting your father's story at the end of the NSI-189 thread here.

Hi Junk Master,

 

My father had no anticonvulsants ever given to him. He never suffered with seizures or anything like that. I have acquired some Zolpidem, but the only reason I haven't pushed for it is because the doctors obviously scare me with the side effects. There are rare side effects like breathing failures and palputations, so that's why I've been very put off to pursue it, even though I think it could help....