16 replies to this topic

[jerebaldo1]

So I'm a 22 year old college student with attentional and mood regulatory issues. I have a burning curiousity to responsibly experiment with all the classes of safe psychoactive meds to see if they are beneficial. And nicotine is the last chemical I'd expect to experiment with since I thought it was much more toxic than it really is. I did exhaustive internet research on nicotine toxicity before plunking down $25 for a 7-day supply of 14mg nicotine patches. I found only one study that warned of increased red blood cell production and arterial constriction. It wasn't clear what blood levels of nicotine researchers used in the subjects (human or otherwise). My impression is that low blood levels of nicotine itself pretty much match the low toxicology of caffeine or amphetamines. All are a bit safer than my Depakote. So I quickly got home and slapped on the patch.

An hour later I started noticing the effects. They were and are quite pleasant. I can feel that "ahh"-inducing dopaminergic release in the same way as when taking 20mg of Adderal xr. I've felt this calm, mood-stabilizing effect that in no way resembles the more dulling side effects that I felt when just beginning Depakote. Seems so far, 8 hours into it, that it also increases my reading comprehension. My heart rate goes up similar to a no-doz. My muscles are a bit more relaxed. So far I haven't noticed the effects winding down, meaning that if steady-dose nicotine causes tolerance it must do so later. I take plenty of EPA/DHA, and my triglycerides levels are quite healthy, so I should be okay as far as that's concerned.

Cost-wise, I've discovered something interesting. From drugstore.com I can get a month's supply of nicotine patches of any 3 strengths for $60-no shipping, no tax. I'm currently paying a $49 a month copay for Adderall XR. The problem with long acting stimulants is that its manufacturers think that waking life is only 8 hours long. If I'm having a booked day that requires careful planning and memory to get things done then I need to take it twice a day. Of course paying $98 a month for one Rx isn't feasible. That's why 16 and 24hr patches make sense to me as stimulants used off-label. I stick em on and forget about them while my blood level of nicotine remains far more constant than my blood level of adderall ever has been.

Of course I'll need to wait and see how not taking the patch for a day effects me compared to doing the same for adderall xr. If I get mild heebee jeebees the patches are out. I know that my body reacts with a very predictable, mild rebound from adderall. I just feel more sleepy and aimless the next day without effects on my mood. I will soon be receiving Galantamine, which I will compare nicotine to (seperately of course).

What have other non-smoker's experience been with the patch? How has sudden cessation of use effected you? I want to cut through all of the haze to see if stead-state nicotine use differs from peak/trough use.

[notshorty]

And nicotine is the last chemical I'd expect to experiment with since I thought it was much more toxic than it really is.

Whoops, I deleted the specific part I wanted to comment on. Anyway, this is an interest of mine also (see the tobacco/vasopressin thread).

I believe the proliferation of RBCs is more of a response to cigarettes, since you're inhaling CO which competes with O2. It's the body's coping mechanism.

My only other thought is that nicotinic receptors up-regulate pretty quickly, so perhaps nicotine patches would be good for cycling every other week with your Adderall XR in order to ensure they both stay effective for the long run.

NS

[mnosal]

Thanks for posting up this trial. Very interesting read, I'd really appreciate continued updates.

[jerebaldo1]

Okay, so the nicotine in the patch came and went. The rebound was not as I had expected based on reports from smokers! When the nicotine left my body I just got tired and a bit more spacey. The onset was a very distinct moment where I was just standing behind the register waiting for customers. Then suddenly felt this strange wave of tiredness. I didn't feel irritable or cranky or depressed. After 30 minutes my body was able to adjust to the feeling. I was still more tired and less focused than while the nicotine was still in my system, but less so than when the rebound began.

Man, if this one experience truly represents my steady-state nicotine response then I-tell-ya, I'm cutting my monthly checks to Rite Aid instead of Abbot Pharmaceuticals . The onset and offset of the nicotine has thus far been smoother than adderall. I should try the patch at both 7mg and 21mg and see which dose I can go for long term.

In other news, I did get my galantamine from Smart Nutrition. It's just the pure stuff, nothing added, so I'll get a pretty darn good idea of what it does to me. And hey, if it works, I can pressure my pdoc to Rx Razadyne ER to me. He was unwilling to prescribe me galantamine during our last visit because he says that there aren't enough studies proving its benefit and safety in ADHD. But if I get the Rx version of Galantamine I can take it just once in the morning for less a month than the nicotine patches or adderall (I think).

[jackinbox]

Keep us up to date with your experiment. I have ADHD too and I'm very interested by this.

[notshorty]

When the nicotine left my body I just got tired and a bit more spacey.

I've heard of people drinking a Mountain Dew (or other caffeinated soda) about 20-30 minutes before that distinct "come down." They've said that if you time it right, it pretty much eliminates the stimulant crash.

If you try it w/ nicotine, please let us know what you think.

NS

[jerebaldo1]

notshorty: yep, that works for me so long as my mood is good or else I get anxious and paranoid due to my cyclothymic tendencies.

Caffeine in the form of 200mg of nodoz every morning and afternoon was the thing I used for a couple months going into my school year. Unfortunately the caffeine aggravated the dysphoria I felt about needing to do well in school again. I was a ball of suicidal stress and paranoia. Sam-e, St. John's Wort, and Vinpocetine failed to stabilize me. Passiflora in huge doses was my only tentative hope during a particularly bad day at work. I love Passiflora (Passion Flower) for that reason. It's an emotional paramedic .

So yeah that initial experience with the nicotine patch has been all-around positive. Since I got my Galantamine I'm going to fiddle with that until my piddling 30 capsules run out. I'll start a new threat on my Galantamine experiences and then come back to this one when I decide to finish off my remaining 6 of my 14mg patches.

[hthb]

Hi.

I have also experimented with nicotine patches as a substitute for ritalin. You can read about it at my blog at adhd.blogzone.net

[johnmk]

Could you at least tell us if your experience was positive or negative?

Looking at your blog, there is no "cut to the chase" conclusion on your experience with nicotine patches.

[hthb]

Well, I found that nicotine patches could replace my ritalin, at least to some extent.

[beej]

I was a smoker for ten years, I quit about 3 years ago with massive difficulty (I am 28 now). I started back on the patchs about 3 weeks ago and I have to say the results have been fantastic. I get the strongest ones and cut them into quarters and use a quarter a day which I find to be plenty.
Tolerence does build but a day or 2 off them brings it back to zero as far as I can tell. It hasn't made me think of cigs again either.
I am on 50mg day of ritalin for adhd also and find it is probably equally as effective

[johnmk]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am interested in trying nicotine patches as well. I hear that if you cut them in halves or quarters, you have to be really particular about how you store the unused portion lest it dry out and lose its potency within a day or two. Does anyone have any tips or thoughts to share on this issue?

[guyledouche]

Ive been wanting to use nicotine patches real bad myself. The first time I ever smoked a cigarette I got an awesome stimulation(better than ritalin or adderall). Im not a smoker anymore so they should work really good for me.

[jerebaldo1]

yeah, and they seem to work just the same throughout the 2 week 21mg patch packs. I tell ya, back in December during my christmas break I was feeling just sublime kicking back and relaxing for once on my off time. So it seems to me like there's good reason to be enthused about chronic patch use barring the cost (drugstore.com Habitrol or Rite-Aid is cheapest). Helps with studying as well as with work stress. Doesn't help so much if you're asked to run around multitasking like a madman. It also doesn't help for when you want to be spontaneous and articulate in a flash, like when talking to women or giving a presentation in class. However, if you embarrass yourself at least you'll be over it pretty quickly! That's why I gave Galantamine a shot, to see if it was Nicotine-and-then-some. Well, I found out it was completely different from Nicotine. But it's like the opposite side of the same coin effects-wise. So if you want a simple stack that smacks I'd try the patch and galantamine together because both are very powerful FDA recognized drugs. You're guarenteed to at the very least feel a boost in mood from it. Only thing is that it'll set you back $102 a month [wis].

I found nothing to indicate that galantamine and nicotine are harmful if taken together since they work on nicotinic receptors in different ways. There's a government run study in session assessing galantamine's efficacy in treating schizophrenics who smoke. So no problem there.

To recap on my subjective galantamine-nicotine experiences:


+ increase
= no change
- decrease

Nicotine 21mg patch:
arousal: =
focus: +
multi-tasking: += (small increase)
relaxation: ++
spontenaeity: -
verbal acumen: -
Empathy: +
processing speed: =
overall mood: +

galantamine 8mg 2x daily:
arousal: +
focus: --
multi-tasking: ++
relaxation: +
sponteneity: ++
verbal acumen: +
empathy:=
processing speed: +
overall mood: =+

I'm gonna try both concurrently in the next 2 weeks.

[beej]

Doesn't nicotine act buy increasing acytlcholine in the brain? What about huperzine A as an alternitive?

[guyledouche]

Were you able to eat while on the patch? I like stimulants but I hate it when I cant at least have a meal while on them. Maybe theres a trick to get around that.

[beej]

I have had no problem eating

I just found this study that initially looks abit disapointing though I have yet to reserch further

The effects of adulthood nicotine treatment on D2-mediated behavior and neurotrophins of rats neonatally treated with quinpirole.

Brown RW, Perna MK, Schaefer TL, Williams MT.

Department of Psychology, East Tennessee State University, Johnson City, Tennessee 37614-6049.

This study was designed to analyze the effects of nicotine on yawning behavior and neurotrophin content in the hippocampus and frontal cortex of D2-receptor primed female adult Sprague-Dawley rats. Animals were neonatally treated with quinpirole, a dopamine (DA) D2/D3 agonist, from postnatal day 1-21 (P1-21) and raised to P60 and administered nicotine tartarate (0.3 mg/kg free base) or saline twice daily for 14 days. One day after nicotine treatment had ceased, the number of yawns was recorded for 1 h in response to an acute injection of quinpirole (i.p., 100 mug/kg). Yawning is a D2-receptor mediated event. D2-primed rats demonstrated a significant increase in yawning in response to acute quinpirole compared with that of controls, but nicotine did not alleviate this effect. Neonatal quinpirole treatment produced a significant decrease of nerve growth factor (NGF) and brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) in the hippocampus that was alleviated by adulthood nicotine treatment. Interestingly, nicotine treatment to controls produced a significant increase of NGF in the frontal cortex, but a significant decrease of both NGF and BDNF in the hippocampus and BDNF in the frontal cortex. The decreases shown in NGF and BDNF is contrary to past findings that have shown nicotine to produce significant increases of hippocampal NGF and BDNF, but these past studies utilized male rats or mice or were performed in vitro. This study shows that nicotine has complex interactions with NGF and BDNF in D2-primed and control animals, and emphasizes the importance of gender differences when analyzing nicotine's effects on neurotrophins. Synapse 59:253-259, 2006. © 2006 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum