11 replies to this topic

[mrkosh1]

Hello Everyone,

 

After spending several days researching Nicatinamide Riboside, I came across a few papers about Alpha Lipoic Acid (the racemic form that contains the unnatural s-isomer) that blew me away. Many years ago I took a low dose of unstabalized R-ALA with fairly little effect that I could tell. Now, I am reading that in studies on mice ALA can do some amazing things. I've posted the links on other threads, but a simple search on PUBMED can find them.

 

1 - First, ALA can increase the amount of the SIRT1 protein six fold in mice cells. Even NR doesn't do this. NR only generates more NAD+ that allows for the SIRT proteins to be active.

 

2 - Secondly, ALA increases the NAD+ / NADH ratio by the activation of certain genes in addition to the total concentration of NAD+.

 

3 - Third, ALA can DOUBLE the amount of telomerase produced in cells which allows for the lengthening of telomeres.

 

All of this really shocked me. I didn't expect ALA was of the same caliber of an anti-aging supplement as NR. However, it seems to be very potent and have broad anti aging effects. I fully realize that ALA reduced lifespan in one study on mice. However, in the same study many health benefits were seen. Additionally, the racemic form was used so we don't know if the lifespan would have been increased with the R isomer.

 

Now, after a few years of taking only a few supplements (mostly curcumin to ease anxiety and stop me from having crazy dreams), I want to try to take something that has the potential to slow or reverse my aging process. My budget is limited, however. I don't know if I can afford to take an effective dose of NR over the long term. However, Na-R-ALA seems to be somewhat less expensive, and I'm interested in trying it out.

 

So here are my questions:

 

1) What are your thoughts on NR and ALA synergizing to both produce MORE SIRT proteins AND produce more NAD+ to activate them?

 

2) Are there any individuals on this forum who have taken high doses of Na-R-ALA (or any other form for that matter) and achieved good results?

 

3) Other than biotin deficiency, the need for supplemental methyl donors, possible stomach irritation, and blood sugar drop, are there any side effects that I should be concerned about?

 

4) What do you think would be an effective dose of Na-R-ALA that could lead to high enough physiological concentrations to promote similar benefits as in mice? Na-R-ALA is supposed to be about sixteen times as absorbable as racemic.

 

5) One fact about Na-R-ALA is that it gets into the blood stream very quickly, but then it goes away very quickly. Is this because it is eliminated from the body, or is it being absorbed by tissues and cells?

 

Thank you for any thoughts or advice you can provide.

 

[thedevinroy]

I can answer #5. It's both. You can smell it in your urine. It's also used in several reactions as a cofactor to increase NADH+H+ as well as being absorbed by insulin receptors. There could be other binding sites, too.

I am increasing my intake from 600mg up to 1200 mg per day, split into 3 doses. However, I have taken it 1200mg in four doses but the last 300mg before bed was not ideal. Gave me crazy dreams. The rest of the side effects were spot on as far as answering #3. Although if you're go on a ketogenic diet, that blood sugar drop won't do much especially if combined with some green tea extract or another supplement high in polyphenols.

Edited by devinthayer, 05 June 2016 - 11:49 AM.

[normalizing]

severe fatigue after alcohol use next day not sure how it is related, also, i somehow felt like i was skin and bones only the morning after and had a minor nightmare of disorientation and depersonalization

[gamesguru]

regular ALA is good too, even for chelation if you constantly dose.

kaempferol inhibits telomerase.

Potent SIRT1 enzyme-stimulating and anti-glycation activities of polymethoxyflavonoids from Kaempferia parviflora.

Two major polymethoxyflavonoids, 3,5,7,3',4'-pentamethoxyflavone (4) and 5,7,4'-trimethoxyflavone (5), were isolated from this extract and are four- and fivefold more potent than resveratrol, hitherto the strongest known natural SIRT1 activator. In addition, the anti-glycation activity of K. parviflora extract was observed to be seven times more effective than aminoguanidine, a clinical anti-diabetes drug. 3,5,7,3',4'-Pentamethoxyflavone (4) and 5,7,4'-trimethoxyflavone (5) showed the strongest anti-glycation activity among the tested polymethoxyflavonoids.

 

apigenin increases NAD+, also has this effect on the brain

[normalizing]

gamesguru what you posted is not related to a discussion of lipoic acid

 

but since you mentioned this, here is toxicity report; https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17547083 not advisable for humans

Edited by normalizing, 09 June 2016 - 09:33 PM.

[thedevinroy]

gamesguru what you posted is not related to a discussion of lipoic acid

but since you mentioned this, here is toxicity report; https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17547083 not advisable for humans

The liver is a small price to pay for SIRT1 activation. :P kidding...

[normalizing]

i just did more research on this herb, wow what a generic crap. it has good indications seemingly so with some good compounds with interesting activity but then you check the lists and see dozen of other more popular and safe herbs out there with more popular use and safety and you think, only an idiot would go chase that obscure crap. that would have been me, years ago btw :(

[gamesguru]

some of the best gems are hard to find.

first thing is its an extract, it includes much more than pure kaempferol. it says "All dosages had no effect on kidney and liver function", and only indicates a morphological change at 240mg/kg. that sets an upper limit of 40mg/kg in people, 10mg/kg is probably safer. is it a good change, or just the standard fatty liver?  even so it might be reversible. something bad to say about apigenin too? btw these are in response to the OPs 1, 2, 3 points

[normalizing]

gamesguru go for it, buy it and use and report

[recon]

Bump to promote discussion on the rest of the questions, hopefully.

I think the best hope is not just to increase NAD+, but also to utilise it well, such as through the activation of sirtuins.

[zeropoint]

R-ALA + acetyl-L-carnitine = much better than ALA alone IMHO

[normalizing]

how so, explain