150 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

 

it seems to absorb through the skin quite readily and to accumulate in the lungs, spleen, heart, and liver. perhaps rosemary in your homemade oat and coconut oil body-butter (i also add cocoa+shea butter, olive oil, and a touch of beeswax). process the oats and rosemary in a vitamix/blendtec, simmer in the oils, strain into jars (tempered!)

Percutaneous absorption of rosmarinic acid in the rat.
Ritschel WA1, Starzacher A, Sabouni A (1989)

Rosmarinic acid (RA) is a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agent. The purpose of the study was to investigate the transdermal absorption of RA, its tissue distribution and absolute bioavailability. In ex vivo experiments, permeation of RA across excised rat skin was about 8 times higher from alcoholic solution than from water, indicating that ethanol may act as sorption promoter. The flux from water or alcoholic solution was 4.4 or 10 micrograms/cm2/h, and the tleg was 7.8 or 3.7 h, respectively. After I.V. administration, RA is best described by a 2-compartment open model; t1/2 = 1.8 h, t1/2 alpha = 0.07 h, V tau = 2.3 L/kg, V beta = 15.3 L/kg. Upon topical administration of RA in form of a W/O ointment (25 mg/kg, 50 cm2), the absolute bioavailability was 60%. 0.5 hours after I.V. administration, RA was detected and measured in brain, heart, liver, lung, muscle, spleen and bone tissue, showing the highest concentration in lung tissue (13 times the blood concentration), followed by spleen, heart and liver tissue. 4.5 hours (peak time) after topical administration of about 3 mg on the hind leg over 20 cm2, RA was measured in blood, skin, muscle and bone tissue. The percutaneous route of administration seems to be a promising one for the therapeutic use of RA as nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agent.

 

 

This study says ethanol is the key.  I'm no chemist or biochemist so I've got zero knowledge in terms of how to use ethanol to create a solution of topical RA with moisturizers like coconut oil, etc. I imagine it's not too difficult, but probably would not be as simple as taking 70% ethanol, dumping RA 20% powder linked earlier in this thread, mixing it with oils and just rubbing it on skin. There's probably more to it. I also have no idea how much purity is required or the effective percentage and what would be considered toxic or overkill.

 

I found this study using it for atopic dermatitis way back in 2008. Not sure why nothing has come of this or why cosmetic companies aren't suddenly including it in their products.

Edited by Nate-2004, 07 July 2016 - 05:54 PM.

[aconita]

Transdermal absorption feasibility is determined by molecular weight and shape, if RA gets past the dermal barrier it means it does.

 

There a few compounds able to further enhance transdermal delivery, alcohol is just one, oils, DMSO, glycerin, etc... are all more or less good enhancers.

 

I would consider emu oil for example since it is well known to be both antilammatory and a very good permeant.

 

Coconut oil would work too as castor oil or olive oil.

 

No rocket science here, actually it is just mixing RA with the chosen carrier, as simple as that.

 

In my view alcohol is not a smart choice since it is kind of irritating, the opposite of what you like to achieve, I guess.

[gamesguru]

I have a feeling the researchers guessed wrong. It's not that ethanol acts as an "absorption enhancer", it's more likely that RA is only slightly soluble in water whereas it is highly soluble in ethanol and most other organic solvents. You could simmer and reduce the tea, but this will promote crystallization or precipitation. The ethanol may have a slight parching effect on the skin, but the amount included does not have to be much. Still if it's allowed to evaporate, we have the crystallization concerns.

[Nate-2004]

Is there a better source than this one? 

 

https://teamtlr.com/...20-extract.html

 

I see this site here but not sure how much they're selling in terms of quantity: http://www.sigmaaldr...ng=en&region=US

[aconita]

it's more likely that RA is only slightly soluble in water whereas it is highly soluble in ethanol and most other organic solvents.

 

Absolutely correct and since as a rule of thumb what is highly soluble in alcohol is lipophilic oils or fats will work very well as carriers since are appropriate solvents.

[gamesguru]

Then you could evap the alcohol off your lotion without crystallizing. I would go with moonshine anyways, just a warm "water" extract.

[normalizing]

so orally it wont reach the skin in adequate enough amounts to have any effect? well, i guess this study is fraud then; http://www.nutraingr...n-potential-RCT

[gamesguru]

ellagic acid^[1] and proanthocyanidin^[2] (in berries) also improve skin tone "from within". it doesn't mean everything will, and it doesn't mean you can't cut the dose in half (or more) by just putting on the skin in the first place. like do you have any (safety) objection to it, besides that oral is easier and more convenient? i say it's a great thing to put in the lotion, to just bombard and flood your skin cells with.

 

as per the atopic dermatitis, i think the reason it hasn't caught on mainstream is because it's just one study and a ton of things are reported to help atopic dermatitis. they can't include them all. just a guess.

[Nate-2004]

so orally it wont reach the skin in adequate enough amounts to have any effect? well, i guess this study is fraud then; http://www.nutraingr...n-potential-RCT

 

I'm not sure that's about RA, it's definitely rosemary but not sure what's going on there in that situation.

 

ellagic acid^[1] and proanthocyanidin^[2] (in berries) also improve skin tone "from within". it doesn't mean everything will, and it doesn't mean you can't cut the dose in half (or more) by just putting on the skin in the first place. like do you have any (safety) objection to it, besides that oral is easier and more convenient? i say it's a great thing to put in the lotion, to just bombard and flood your skin cells with.

 

as per the atopic dermatitis, i think the reason it hasn't caught on mainstream is because it's just one study and a ton of things are reported to help atopic dermatitis. they can't include them all. just a guess.

 

I can understand that. So I wonder what would happen if I just mixed RA in with my regular CereVe face lotion. I'm not sure if it would mean squirting it all out into a bowl and mixing it in and then putting it back into a dispenser bottle or what. I'd love to test this out for the 30 - 60 days it takes to turn over skin cells and see what changes.

 

I actually tried placing an order of the 98% with Sigma Aldrich but I doubt they'd sell to me. Worth a try. If I can't use them I'll try True Life. I don't understand the need for control on these products, it's not like Rosemary is a controlled substance. Who cares what anybody does with their own body?

Edited by Nate-2004, 08 July 2016 - 05:50 PM.

[gamesguru]

pardon my French, but you put that on your face? some RA may be a prudent addition, indeed.

 

Active Ingredients:Homosalate 12% ..... SunscreenOctinoxate 7.5%..... SunscreenZinc Oxide 3.5%..... SunscreenOctocrylene 2%..... (Sunscreen)

Inactive Ingredients: Purified water, niacinamide, behentrimonium methosulfate and cetearyl alcohol, glycerin, aluminum starch, octenylsuccinate and boron nitride, dimethicone, ceramide 3, ceramide 6-11, ceramide 1, chloesterol, hyaluronic acid, phytosphingosine, hydroxyethylcellulose, disodium EDTA, sodium lauroyl lactylate, methylparaben, ...

 

[Nate-2004]

 

pardon my French, but you put that on your face? some RA may be a prudent addition, indeed.

 

Active Ingredients:Homosalate 12% ..... SunscreenOctinoxate 7.5%..... SunscreenZinc Oxide 3.5%..... SunscreenOctocrylene 2%..... (Sunscreen)

Inactive Ingredients: Purified water, niacinamide, behentrimonium methosulfate and cetearyl alcohol, glycerin, aluminum starch, octenylsuccinate and boron nitride, dimethicone, ceramide 3, ceramide 6-11, ceramide 1, chloesterol, hyaluronic acid, phytosphingosine, hydroxyethylcellulose, disodium EDTA, sodium lauroyl lactylate, methylparaben, ...

 

 

Ceramides and niacinamide as well as hyaluronic acid are showing promise for facial complexion. The sunscreen of course will help protect from sun damage. I'm not sure what's wrong with the ingredients you've bolded but you seem to be implying that these ingredients are not good. CeraVe has a very good reputation with dermatologists and it's probably one of the best brands in terms of good things to put on your skin.

 

I've been using this for 50 days now. I haven't taken any pictures to compare with the before picture yet, I'm waiting for 60 days to pass before I do. I do like what I see in the mirror though. I also added a vitamin c solution to the mix before I put the moisturizer on. Apparently Vit C helps boost collagen production among other good things for the complexion, same with Vitamin E. I did a lot of research before picking this one and it was recommended numerous times in the ageless looks forum.

[normalizing]

i think logically this actually makes more sense at the end; http://www.nutraingr...g-potential-RCT

[Nate-2004]

Whatever the case I can't order the stuff, I don't have a lab and apparently rosmarinic acid is some kind of "hazardous material" that can't be shipped to my address. This is just laughable, obnoxious absurdity on levels that would make for great satire if it weren't so infuriating just how much stifling, unreasonable, uneducated, nanny-state control the FDA/DEA has over our own bodies and what we're allowed access to. 

 

So I suppose any discussion for the use of RA is on hold till people can actually access it.

Edited by Nate-2004, 11 July 2016 - 03:08 PM.

[adamh]

You can always try rosemary or rosemary extract. 

[Nate-2004]

What about mixing the rosemary extract with 100% argan oil? Supposedly argan oil is great for skin.

Edited by Nate-2004, 12 July 2016 - 08:43 PM.

[normalizing]

nate seriously man, are you a gay guy or a girl, why do you care so much for your skin to look shiny? this is ridiculous. man up! at first i thought you are interested in this stuff for various other reasons but you have kept going for a while now about how you want your precious skin to look shiny and stuff. jeez

[Nate-2004]

This is not at all pointless or time wasting and is highly relevant to RA, the ongoing discussion as to whether this reaches skin taken orally, etc. If it in fact breaks AGE's then applying it to skin in a manner that allows high absorbency would hypothetically restore elasticity and youth in terms of appearance. I care about my skin because that's the most outward appearance of aging, as a single guy who's getting older, I give a fuck. I care just as much about my outward appearance as I do my inward health, mental and physical. I wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. Maybe I'm vain. Does it really matter why? This is my thread, I started it. It's all about RA.

Edited by Nate-2004, 14 July 2016 - 02:50 PM.

[maxwatt]

I have a trusted source for rosemary extract, standardized to rosemarinic acid anywhere up to 98% purity.  Minimum quantity is a kilogram, obviously more than most would want at one time.  If there is interest, I can price it.  Perhaps somene would be willing to divide it into smaller amounts and distribute?

 

I may also have some old samples, a few grams, in storage.  I can check what state they are in over the weekend.

[Nate-2004]

I have a trusted source for rosemary extract, standardized to rosemarinic acid anywhere up to 98% purity.  Minimum quantity is a kilogram, obviously more than most would want at one time.  If there is interest, I can price it.  Perhaps somene would be willing to divide it into smaller amounts and distribute?

 

I may also have some old samples, a few grams, in storage.  I can check what state they are in over the weekend.

 

Just out of curiosity what's the price of a KG?  I found 98% but it was $35 for just 10mg.

 

I plan to just try the 6% for now and see what happens, both topically and orally. I think I have a solution for topical application.

 

Would I be right in saying that if a 500mg dose of rosemary extract is 6% rosmarinic acid, would that mean 30mg of that is RA?

Edited by Nate-2004, 14 July 2016 - 03:14 PM.

[maxwatt]

 

I have a trusted source for rosemary extract, standardized to rosemarinic acid anywhere up to 98% purity.  Minimum quantity is a kilogram, obviously more than most would want at one time.  If there is interest, I can price it.  Perhaps somene would be willing to divide it into smaller amounts and distribute?

 

I may also have some old samples, a few grams, in storage.  I can check what state they are in over the weekend.

 

Just out of curiosity what's the price of a KG?  I found 98% but it was $35 for just 10mg.

 

I plan to just try the 6% for now and see what happens, both topically and orally. I think I have a solution for topical application.

 

Would I be right in saying that if a 500mg dose of rosemary extract is 6% rosmarinic acid, would that mean 50mg of that is RA?

 

Way overpriced.  I have to check on the current price, but $35 should buy several times that much.  

 

6% of 500 mg is 30 mg.

 

 

[maxwatt]

 

I have a trusted source for rosemary extract, standardized to rosemarinic acid anywhere up to 98% purity.  Minimum quantity is a kilogram, obviously more than most would want at one time.  If there is interest, I can price it.  Perhaps somene would be willing to divide it into smaller amounts and distribute?

 

I may also have some old samples, a few grams, in storage.  I can check what state they are in over the weekend.

 

Just out of curiosity what's the price of a KG?  I found 98% but it was $35 for just 10mg.

 

I plan to just try the 6% for now and see what happens, both topically and orally. I think I have a solution for topical application.

 

Would I be right in saying that if a 500mg dose of rosemary extract is 6% rosmarinic acid, would that mean 30mg of that is RA?

 

 

Checking prices for a kilo -

 

Actually $35 for 10 mg is not a bad price for 98%.  Works out to $3500 per kilogram.  As that is about the current FOB price in China for a kilo, I would  be a little suspicious.

 

But 20, and 50%  extracts work out to be a better deal if one is willing to accept the impurities from the herb, which are mostly other polyphenols such as carnosic acid, ursolic acid, and their glycones.

 

I can get 50% for about $1200 a kilo,  20% looks like a bargain at about $250 a kilo/

 

 

[Nate-2004]

I'll definitely consider this if we can get 10 people to go in on it. I think people are going to want to see more research though. I got the 6% yesterday. I wonder why it costs so much for 98%. 50% even sounds fine.

 

I wonder what the process is for purifying extracts down to the specific ingredient you want.

Edited by Nate-2004, 15 July 2016 - 04:10 PM.

[normalizing]

nate, dont be foolish. its just another herbal stuff that wont work. why dont you concentrate on advancement in technology, like stem cells?

[Nate-2004]

Is rosemary extract or rosmarinic acid (either) lipophilic or hydrophilic and how do you go about telling?

 

I keep Google searching and keep coming up with little hints here and there that it's both.

 

 

[gamesguru]

According to aconita, it's fat and alcohol soluble. The water solubility is much poorer.

[aconita]

Since the rosmarinic acid extraction is hydroalcoholic 70% its solubility in water is possible but poor meanwhile alcohol or other organic solvents do a much better job.

 

 

[Nate-2004]

Ah thanks I was looking for that post and kept scrolling right past it.

[Nate-2004]

Since the rosmarinic acid extraction is hydroalcoholic 70% its solubility in water is possible but poor meanwhile alcohol or other organic solvents do a much better job.

 

So what about something like glycerin or hyaluronic acid gel?

[sthira]

Just a thought, but rosemary is a very common herb and easy as cinch to grow into healthy fragrant sprigs. Could you pick a few handfuls, grind it up in your vitamix with some ethanol, then add it to hylauronic acid? It'd be a self experiment of course, wipe it on your left hand for a few months and see what happens...

[Nate-2004]

I'm actually using the extract (6% RA) in Argan oil on a patch of eczema (atopic dermatitis) to see what happens. So far it's looking better than it ever has after one week.  I want to try the 20% extract linked earlier in the thread if I can get access to it, but I also need to experiment with just Argan oil by itself. I'm not sure if it will go away permanently with this or not. I don't know what 98% would do.

Edited by Nate-2004, 27 July 2016 - 06:06 PM.