178 replies to this topic

[Shai Hulud]

She should try Parnate. Not only is it less toxic and more effective than SSRIs and SNRIs, but it also has the potential to help with her different symptoms all in one medication.
After stabilizing, look into her folate/biopterin and methionine pathways. If there are problems there, this can result in a shortage and/or imbalance of Neurotransmitters : serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline need Tetrahydrobiopterin for synthesis and Dopamine and Noradrenaline, also Histamine need Methylation to work to be degraded.

Gesendet von meinem ONE A2003 mit Tapatalk

Oh, sorry, I'm using my mobile and didn't see there were more pages.
Anyway, hope this can help her

[Mind_Paralysis]

She should try Parnate. Not only is it less toxic and more effective than SSRIs and SNRIs, but it also has the potential to help with her different symptoms all in one medication.
After stabilizing, look into her folate/biopterin and methionine pathways. If there are problems there, this can result in a shortage and/or imbalance of Neurotransmitters : serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline need Tetrahydrobiopterin for synthesis and Dopamine and Noradrenaline, also Histamine need Methylation to work to be degraded.

Gesendet von meinem ONE A2003 mit Tapatalk

Methylation-problems are usually of a genetic nature and the symptoms are usually visible from birth - the sudden onset of symptoms here makes your suggestion fairly unlikely.

 

And considering her strange dilated pupils, I am not so certain it's a good idea to put her on a drug which increases the activity of all cathecolamines simultaneously...

 

You made me think of something else though - perhaps she has a tumour on her ADRENAL GLANDS? This could explain the sudden onset as well, if no abnormalities in her brain can be found - hyper-production of cathecolamines could result in psychotic behaviour, certainly.

 

Strangely enough, I see that tumours on the adrenal glands which cause adrenal insufficiency ALSO cause psychosis! 0_o Apparently ACETYLCHOLINE can cause psychosis, just as well as Serotonin or Dopamine. Curious though, because ach-sideeffects were long since written off as non-therapeutic in both Schizophrenic and other psychosis.

 

 

References:

--------------------

Severe Psychotic Disorder as the Main Manifestation of Adrenal Insufficiency

https://www.hindawi....ps/2015/512430/

 

Mysterious Psychosis

http://www.nytimes.c...iagnosis-t.html

 

If the drug could sometimes cause psychosis and mania, could this adrenaline-producing tumor do the same thing? Cosgrove found several papers describing patients who, like this woman, had pheochromocytomas as well as mania and psychosis. The symptoms resolved once the tumor was removed.

 

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I am curious. For those who've been diagnosed with borderline is this what you feel - every seemingly insignificant pain is amplified many-fold and you feel that people who've done small things against you have done major things?

[gamesguru]

and it's without rhyme or reason.  one day your date flakes out last minute and it's no biggie my heart will go on, but then the next day your neighbor politely asks for a a bed bath beyond coupon, a coupon which you were going to throw out (ahem, recycle) anyways and it's suddenly like damn nigguh, i just lent you my lawn mower last week and you returned it with a scuffed wheel.  now how the hell you got the balls to come ask for a coupon

[jack black]

I'm currently trying to help a family and so far this thread comes the closest to anything I've read so far.

The family raised until 7 weeks ago what was a normal loving 12 year old daughter, until rather suddenly developing a "severe" case of oppositional defiance disorder.

There are 2 or 3 historic aggravating factors such as parents divorce (7 years ago), a recent (12 weeks ago) fight at school, poor school performance,

She has low IQ (70's) and ADHD( recent diagnosis).

Out of what seems like the blue she attempted a homicide with a lot of scary detail and planning.

Escaped police custody and struggled with police officers.

Vandalised property, jumped out of a moving car, threatened a parent with murder (in graphic detail)

Was put in a facility and has smashed windows, attempted escape.

It goes on and on and on and has done for 7 weeks now.

She has made weak but regular attempts at suicide.

She has an absolute hatred of rules.

She shows no empathy or remorse.

I haven't been able to get DNA tests and I doubt I can now as she's now under state care and seems unresponsive to ADHD drugs, Quetiapine Fumarate etc.

 

Being such a massive change in the space of days I am inclined to believe something has "switched" and Im wondering after reading this forum if the onset of puberty, ( has developed body but not had a period) a "possible" acetylcholine issue and the aggravating factors haven't forced her amygdala into a constant on state.

 

The day before she committed the homocide attempt she swallowed 12 Nurofen (Ibuprofen) so I'd expect that whacked her microbiome to hell and back. 

Her eyes are constantly dilated

She craves coffee, sugar and found comfort in the one cigarette we know about ( alpha 7 nicotine receptor?)

The psych unit that has looked at her has stated this is a behavioural problem and not a psychiatric issue. I'm not so sure.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I am looking for feedback in terms of should we attempt to modulate her acetylcholine.

she has had some balance and dizzyness issues, in fact of late she could tick everyone of these boxes https://vagusnervesu...-acetylcholine/

I know BPD isn't the same as Oppositional Defiance Disorder but I need some clues  

 

I just remembered about anti-NMDA receptor encephalitis. It's very rare and thus, unlikely, but I'm mentioning it here because it can closely mimic psychosis and there is a clustering in young females.

 

 

During the initial stage of the disease, symptoms vary slightly between children and adults. However, behavior changes are a common first symptom within both groups. These changes often include agitation, paranoia, psychosis, and violent behaviors. Other common first manifestations include seizures and bizarre movements, mostly of the lips and mouth, but also including pedaling motions with the legs or hand movements resembling playing a piano. Some other symptoms typical during the disease onset include impaired cognition, memory deficits, and speech problems (including aphasia, perseveration or mutism).^[4][5]

The symptoms usually appear psychiatric in nature, which may confound the differential diagnosis. In many cases, this leads to the illness going undiagnosed.^[6] As the disease progresses, the symptoms become medically urgent and often include autonomic dysfunction, hypoventilation, cerebellar ataxia, hemiparesis, loss of consciousness, or catatonia. During this acute phase, most patients require treatment in an intensive care unit to stabilize breathing, heart rate, and blood pressure.^{[citation needed]} Loss of feeling in one side of the body can be a symptom.^[7] One distinguishing characteristic of anti-NMDA receptor encephalitis is the concurrent presence of many of the above listed symptoms. The majority of patients experience at least four symptoms, with many experiencing six or seven over the course of the disease.^[4][5]

https://en.wikipedia...or_encephalitis

[Mind_Paralysis]

I just got to thinking about something...

My entire line of reasoning behind my research into the mechanism of Borderline and how to treat it, is based on one single idea:

 

Removing emotionality.

 

But maybe I'm wrong there... Enhanced emotional tone, enhanced attention to emotional cues, does not necessarily have to be a problem... IF you can control those emotions, if you can control what you feel from others, then this could be a tremendous gift.

 

Borderline COULD become something really wonderful actually...! : O

 

I'm going to refocus a bit on my research going forward - instead of focusing on the abnormalities in the amygdala, I'm going to focus on the abnormalities in the pre-frontal cortex - if we can enhance function here, the way I imagine Predrag Petrovich is probably figuring with his stimulant research, then that may actually be preferable to silencing emotion. Emotion in itself is not the problem - it is the lack of control of those emotions.

 

I am not convinced that stimulants are the answer though... I'm thinking more towards something like Intuniv.

[gamesguru]

 

Not within the budget.  But anything to do with alpha7 is interesting.  Also have my eyes on PRE084, a sigma-1 agonist, antidepressive and nootropic promoter of GDNF.

 

One day, we shall MAKE it within budget!

 

Tis yet within the budget.  I'm doing well without a degree.  But problems remain, social problems as I predicted.  But I'm not willing to experiment with some unknown.  I just got thru a TV ad detailing the side effects for lunestra.  I mean come on guys, at the end of the ad the narrator sounds like a friggin jimmy johns boy who now reads the disclaimer to radio  advertisments for iPhone trade ins.  Tardive dyskinesia, anhedonia, diabetes, even spontaneous death.  That's more than can be said of magnesium and theanine.

 

And then you talk to your doctor about having thin blood and concerns over reports of spontaneous bleeding with medicine X, and how perhaps magnesium and a lesser med would make a healthier stack.  But he's not having any of it, because he knows youre gullible as drunk donkey, theres money to be had on the table and the establishment has his back.

 

Well doc youre certainly entitled to your opinion, but i've decided I'm laying the burden of proof on you and I won't be spending a penny til you dismiss every last bit of it.  I mean, surely youre not even in the same IQ bracket as me, right doc, it shouldn't be a problem..?

 

Posted from my Ubuntu Phone

Edited by gamesguru, 28 November 2017 - 11:16 PM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

 

Not within the budget.  But anything to do with alpha7 is interesting.  Also have my eyes on PRE084, a sigma-1 agonist, antidepressive and nootropic promoter of GDNF.

 

One day, we shall MAKE it within budget!

 

Tis yet within the budget.  I'm doing well without a degree.  But problems remain, social problems as I predicted.  But I'm not willing to experiment with some unknown.  I just got thru a TV ad detailing the side effects for lunestra.  I mean come on guys, at the end of the ad the narrator sounds like a friggin jimmy johns boy who now reads the disclaimer to radio  advertisments for iPhone trade ins.  Tardive dyskinesia, anhedonia, diabetes, even spontaneous death.  That's more than can be said of magnesium and theanine.

 

And then you talk to your doctor about having thin blood and concerns over reports of spontaneous bleeding with medicine X, and how perhaps magnesium and a lesser med would make a healthier stack.  But he's not having any of it, because he knows youre gullible as drunk donkey, theres money to be had on the table and the establishment has his back.

 

Well doc youre certainly entitled to your opinion, but i've decided I'm laying the burden of proof on you and I won't be spending a penny til you dismiss every last bit of it.  I mean, surely youre not even in the same IQ bracket as me, right doc, it shouldn't be a problem..?

 

Posted from my Ubuntu Phone

 

 

Have you tried that DBT-stuff though? The cognitive therapy, specifically designed for Borderliners? I'm sceptical myself, but there is quite a bit of evidence for it.

Even if it only works as long as you keep doing it (two or so sessions every week) it could in theory be worth it - at least until you hit 40, and the symptoms might be dying down.
 

[gamesguru]

yeah but i haven't made it a big priority, shall i?  searching for a clever therapist in detroit is like looking for life on mars.  had one lady advertise herself as dialetical and cognitive behavioral, when she was clearly just a toolbag.  kept invoking stories about her husband, a brawny man with no GED, just generally offered sympathy in place of good advice, and at one point fucking got on her phone for 20 seconds.  i know that shouldn't bother me technically but it fucking doooes.  to make matters worse, she sent these $25 payslips for a missed appointment over a period of months (i should mention this came at a time where i was living alone and making well below 15 an hour and she was well aware of this)

 

the other guy initially seemed cool, more of a existential-individualist background but also still quite retarded apparently because we came tocompletely disagree with his eyes firmly set on adhd/depression and making no suggestion of anything worse, except that i should make an appointment with his psychiatrist friend

 

nay, over the years i've improved my ways of managing anxiety and negative feelings, it doesn't work all the time but if i feel good 23 hours a day i consider that a passing grade

[John250]

My Dr said with true BPD no medication works as it’s not a chemical imbalance. Only fix is DBT and CBT therapy.

[jack black]

it's good to see my old thread got resurrected.

 

My Dr said with true BPD no medication works as it’s not a chemical imbalance. Only fix is DBT and CBT therapy.

 

I would disagree. A number of medication help in BPD while not necessarily curing it. SSRI and mood stabilizers are mostly used: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3811092/

 

there is research showing SSRI regulates amygdala responses: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2802527/
 

[John250]

it's good to see my old thread got resurrected.


I would disagree. A number of medication help in BPD while not necessarily curing it. SSRI and mood stabilizers are mostly used: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3811092/

there is research showing SSRI regulates amygdala responses: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2802527/

I would have to agree as I just started back on 5 mg Lexapro for two weeks and already feel a huge positive difference.

[jack black]

I would have to agree as I just started back on 5 mg Lexapro for two weeks and already feel a huge positive difference.

 

my advice: try low dose to avoid side effects. i just got started on paxil and while a single 5mg dose (1/4 tab) gave me zombie-like effect and crash on day 3 after, 2.5mg daily (1/8 tab) keeps me mildly pacified. I'm slow CYP2D6 metabolizer, so it could be part of that.

[John250]

my advice: try low dose to avoid side effects. i just got started on paxil and while a single 5mg dose (1/4 tab) gave me zombie-like effect and crash on day 3 after, 2.5mg daily (1/8 tab) keeps me mildly pacified. I'm slow CYP2D6 metabolizer, so it could be part of that.

Yes my Dr. told me to take 5 mg and after two weeks increase it to 10. It’s been two weeks so far and I’ve been using 5 mg as well as 400mg Sam-E and don’t really feel like I need to increase to 10. I increased to 10 one day and the next day I felt like a zombie so I went back to 5mg. I’m hoping I can stick with 5mg and the Sam-E as 5 mg is so small that has virtually no side effects. If anything I’ll increase the Sam-E first to 800mg if I feel like I need more.

Edited by John250, 05 June 2018 - 11:11 PM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Yes my Dr. told me to take 5 mg and after two weeks increase it to 10. It’s been two weeks so far and I’ve been using 5 mg as well as 400mg Sam-E and don’t really feel like I need to increase to 10. I increased to 10 one day and the next day I felt like a zombie so I went back to 5mg. I’m hoping I can stick with 5mg and the Sam-E as 5 mg is so small that has virtually no side effects. If anything I’ll increase the Sam-E first to 800mg if I feel like I need more.

 

Hey man, just figured I'd mention this, since it's a hypothesis of my own - there's some evidence pointing towards Borderline being a fairly unique disease in that it's not related just to Serotonin (as some research has shown) - but also to... ACETYLCHOLINE!

The abnormalities in the amygdala which you guys have, might be controlled by the Nicotinic Acetylcholine type 7 receptor - you also have abnormally high production of Choline, which then turns into acetylcholine.

 

SO...! An nAch-7 antagonist might help - and NOW THERE IS ONE! :D

 

And! And! It's being tested for the treatment of anxiety and PTSD-like symptoms! Complex-PTSD seems to be fairly common in Borderline, or at least, the symptoms are SCARILY similar!

 

Have a look man - this could be the next big thing to get your emotions in check:

 

https://www.longecit...ctio-potential/

 

BNC-210 is the name of the compound.

[John250]

Hey man, just figured I'd mention this, since it's a hypothesis of my own - there's some evidence pointing towards Borderline being a fairly unique disease in that it's not related just to Serotonin (as some research has shown) - but also to... ACETYLCHOLINE!

The abnormalities in the amygdala which you guys have, might be controlled by the Nicotinic Acetylcholine type 7 receptor - you also have abnormally high production of Choline, which then turns into acetylcholine.

SO...! An nAch-7 antagonist might help - and NOW THERE IS ONE! :D

And! And! It's being tested for the treatment of anxiety and PTSD-like symptoms! Complex-PTSD seems to be fairly common in Borderline, or at least, the symptoms are SCARILY similar!

Have a look man - this could be the next big thing to get your emotions in check:

https://www.longecit...ctio-potential/

BNC-210 is the name of the compound.

Very cool. When I supplement with choline I don’t really notice much nor with most nootropics so I’m not sure if my levels are naturally high. Part of me thinks I might not even have borderline. In the DSM my therapist went through a series of questions and you have to meet I believe 6 or more and I was at 5. I’ve also never had a suicidal thought.

[jack black]

Yes my Dr. told me to take 5 mg and after two weeks increase it to 10. It’s been two weeks so far and I’ve been using 5 mg as well as 400mg Sam-E and don’t really feel like I need to increase to 10. I increased to 10 one day and the next day I felt like a zombie so I went back to 5mg. I’m hoping I can stick with 5mg and the Sam-E as 5 mg is so small that has virtually no side effects. If anything I’ll increase the Sam-E first to 800mg if I feel like I need more.

 

John,

are you still micro-dosing SSRI?

I stopped after several days because while sedated, I became more lazy and unmotivated.

This is not the first time on antidepressants. It's my understanding that increased 5HT down-regulates dopamine levels and vice versa. Stims make me anxious and asshole. catch 22 indeed.

[John250]

John,
are you still micro-dosing SSRI?
I stopped after several days because while sedated, I became more lazy and unmotivated.
This is not the first time on antidepressants. It's my understanding that increased 5HT down-regulates dopamine levels and vice versa. Stims make me anxious and asshole. catch 22 indeed.

Stayed on 5mg Lexapro for 2weeks. Increased it to 10mg and was too tired the next day. Backed it to 5mg for a few more days and increased it to 7.5mg The past 4 days which has seemed to work fine for me.

[John250]

John,
are you still micro-dosing SSRI?
I stopped after several days because while sedated, I became more lazy and unmotivated.
This is not the first time on antidepressants. It's my understanding that increased 5HT down-regulates dopamine levels and vice versa. Stims make me anxious and asshole. catch 22 indeed.

Have you ever looked into or tried Agomelatine? Seems that studies show it’s equally as good at combating depression with far less side effects.

[jack black]

Have you ever looked into or tried Agomelatine? Seems that studies show it’s equally as good at combating depression with far less side effects.

 

heard about it, and it's on my do it list, but haven't' purchased or tried it yet. did you try it yourself?

man, i have ordered so many compounds so far, that's it's hard to try them all. it's hard work.

[John250]

heard about it, and it's on my do it list, but haven't' purchased or tried it yet. did you try it yourself?
man, i have ordered so many compounds so far, that's it's hard to try them all. it's hard work.

No but I just tried my first dose of tianeptine sulfate (25mg) but I’m ordering the pharmacy grade sodium version as well pharmacy Agomelatine from Buypharma1

[John250]

So Lexapro was helping for a little bit but I feel like I’m starting to get a lot of obsessive compulsive disorders lately. I’m thinking about having my doctor prescribe me Abilify. Is the general consensus for the best treatment medication wise of borderline Abilify? Anyone thoroughly research it and know the “major” negative side effects? Long-term side effects like brain damage, etc.? Trying to weigh the pros vs cons but I have to do something pretty soon as I find myself spiraling down a rabbit hole. Starting to smoke cigarettes, starting to use more recreational drugs, cannot get any work done have zero motivation, etc. At least I can feel when I need to take action I just want to do the best approach.

[Mind_Paralysis]

I haven't looked extensively into Aripiprazole (abilify), but as far as I know, these are the side-effects that are fairly unique to Aripiprazole:

 

1. Akathisia

(theoretically very rare, because of drug-design, but there are many reports of this - an inner restlessness that you can't define - fidgety, squirmy, very difficult to relax)

 

2. Hyposexuality/Hypersexuality

(because of its high affinity for the D3-receptor, this drug has a huge impact on sexual behaviour - it's very hard to predict the results however - it seems to be almost even

when it comes to less, more, or unchanged sexual behaviour - the drug-design was specifically to lessen impact on sexuality, but the result is mixed)

 

3. Impulsivity

(see #2 - D3-affinity causes this - but in theory, it could also HELP with such issues, then. This side-effect can be catastrophically strong btw, like gambling away all your money, undergoing a SEX-CHANGE(!) and so forth.)

 

 

Those are probably minor though, compared to the big ones which all Antipsychotics can potentially induce:

 

Like every antipsychotic it also holds the potential for causing Tardive Dyskinesia, but it has reportedly far less such issues, because of its design of being a Partial Agonist - i.e, depending on the dosage or circumstance, Aripiprazole can both block and activate various receptors of both dopamine and serotonin. TD is usually, like most side-effects, temporary, and will go away with stopping the drug and then trying it again - the problem is of course that it actually CAN be permanent...

 

 

Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome - is of course the ULTIMATE serious side-effect of antipsychotics - it can be likened to Serotonin Syndrome in severity. This is rare though, very, very rare - theoretically, Aripiprazole should have less likelihood to cause this, because of it's partial agonism, but there have been reports.

 

https://en.wikipedia...ignant_syndrome

 

If you want to be completely safe, then familiarize yourself with the early symptoms, and keep an eye out for them, in a Medication-diary. Checking your blood-pressure throughout the day appears to be a simple way to see if there's any risk.

 

 

My personal opinion while reading up on the drug, is that it IS safer than previous Antipsychotics, but it does hold some potentially problematic side-effects. It should be noted that the research on third-gen AP's, which Aripiprazole is the first of its kind, is very, very low... even though it's been around for quite some time, it doesn't appear to be featured in as many reviews and deep independent trials as even other atypical AP's.

 

Two GOOD things about Aripiprazole is that it seems to cause less weight-gain and no gyno - it actually often causes LOWERING of prolactin! Seems to happen even in the people whom report hyposexuality from the drug.

 

 

The other two drugs in this class, are, as far as I know:

 

BREXpiprazole (causes weight-gain - likely alters metabolism, which Ari does not. Appears to have the greatest effect on depressive symptoms of any ap ever created)

 

Cariprazine (the highest affinity for the D3-receptor - theoretically even more capable of curbing or enhancing impulsive behaviour)

 

 

Since the movement-problems seems to come from affinity for Dopamine-receptors than D3, and are more common in older AP's that ONLY antagonise 5ht and DA -receptors, then Cariprazine could hypothetically be the safest, most benign AP ever created - with the highest efficacy on Impulsive Behaviour - which is what you seem to be experiencing difficulties with.

 

It's also the newest and least researched of any AP... There's no telling if it will REALLY have any effect whatsoever on Borderline Personality Disorder. No evidence whatsoever...

 

Buuut... My guess, that it's the D3-affinity which makes Aripiprazole such a good drug for BPD... it suggests that a drug with even higher such affinity may be good. Of course, I also believe Serotonin is actually more implicated in Borderline PD (can't recall the specific receptors though...) so perhaps the third-gen AP with the most affinity for the receptors associated with BPD, and with D3-affinity, will in reality be the most effective.

 

Read up on which serotonin-receptors have been the most implicated in BPD, and check the affinity-charts for Brexpiprazole, Aripiprazole and Cariprazine, to see which drug appears to have the highest affinity for those specific receptors - that might be your best bet.

 

 

In closing:

all third-gen AP's are slightly more safer than previous AP-generations - they can all cause the same side-effects though, just in varying degrees, which we can't quite tell how big of a difference each gen' has.

 

But they're a bit safer, in pretty much every way.

 

 

Read more:

Dose-dependent rapid-onset akathisia with aripiprazole in patients with schizoaffective disorder

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2671776/

 

Antipsychotic-Induced Movement Disorders

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3004713/

 

 

Second-Generation Antipsychotics and Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome: Systematic Review and Case Report Analysis

https://link.springe...0268-014-0078-0

 

 

[John250]

Great thank you.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Glad to hear that my work is appreciated. = )

 

 

Just had a quick check, and the two receptors that there seems to be some evidence for, being involved in the symptoms of BPD, are the 5ht1a and 5ht2a receptors.

 

There appears to be gender-based differences though... so have a deeper look at this, when you assess which one of the three Third-gen AP's you're going to chose.

 

Effects of serotonin-2A receptor binding and gender on personality traits and suicidal behavior in borderline personality disorder

https://www.psyn-jou...0063-8/abstract

 

 

 

I know that in OTHER patients, 5ht1a-abnormalities are connected to depressive symptoms - 5ht1a-agonism seems to help with such problems. Soo... perhaps that property isn't what you seek, but rather the 5ht2a-action?

 

A quick glance reveals that Brexpiprazole is the 3rd gen AP with the most balanced affinity-ratio between 5ht2a and D3 -receptors. It's also the 3rd Gen AP with the highest affinity for the 5ht2a-receptor.

 

[John250]

I’m starting to rethink if I even have BPD. I’m not 100% on the accuracy of DSM’s 9 questions. I don’t feel a simple nine questions can determine somebody’s disorder. In fact my psychiatrist has written down in his form that I have “traits of borderline personality disorder“ “ traits of a mood disorder“ “ traits of narcissism” traits of obsessive compulsive disorder” i’ve been to three psychiatrists and they all say I have symptoms of mood disorders but cannot 100% diagnosed me with a specific one. I have my appointment at noon with my psychiatrist today to go over new medicines. What I’m thinking and let me know what your thoughts are is possibly switching my Lexapro to Agomelatine. I think I have a circadian rhythm imbalance which could lead to a lot of my problems and Agomelatine should fix that. I think Abilify would be useful as it’s a partial agonist at D2 and 5ht1a receptors and antagonist at 5ht2a receptors according to ncbi which would help with impulsiveness and aggression in BPD.
Agomelatine is neutral antagonist at 5-HT2C receptors. What I’m wondering is what changes would occur both positive and negative from switching to Agomelatine that is just a neutral antagonist at 5-HT2C receptors from Lexapro which I’m not sure on what 5ht receptors it acts as an agonist or antagonist? Perhaps both Lexapro and Agomelatine With the addition of Abilify would be beneficial for me or is there no need for Lexapro?

Agomelatine isn’t prescribed in the US so I know he won’t prescribe that to me even though I already have it I’m wondering what his option on this will be about agreeing with me using it or if he would rather have me use another melatonin agonist like Circadian, Ramelteon, or Tasimelteon since those are the only 3 prescribed in the US. Seems those 3 have no impact on 5ht receptors where Agomelatine has a minimal impact on 5ht2c.

Another issue is I’m prescribed amphetamines which I rely on to basically function and I’m not sure if they negatively or positively impact any of the above issues. It seems like a double edged sword since it’s very hard to balance serotonin and dopamine correctly.

I’m curious what your input would be on this and what regimen you would try if you were in my shoes?

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Edited by John250, 27 June 2018 - 05:13 PM.

[whiteelephant]

I just wanted to revamp this thread to raise a few things.  Great comments by many here.  

 

Re: ACH elevations.  Over on several reddit pages, people have claimed coularacetam has been a lifesaver for their symptoms.  How would this play into the ACH hypothesis?

Re: Intuniv.  If intuniv is believed to modulate rejection sensitivity/impulsivity, by what means?  According to the distillation here, BPD mostly results from low dopamine and low serotonin?  In studies of atypical depression, MAOIs have been found to be most helpful.  Relatedly, in mood contingent self esteem SNRIS are seen to be helpful.  So would a norepinephrine related mechanism be relevant to BPD emotionality?

[GreyMonkey]

Hi any further words or insights to explore here?

 

I haven't been 'officially' diagnosed with BPD, yet I definitely meet the criteria. 

 

The emotional regulation, especially when in romantic relationships, is a nightmare to deal with... that and a pervasive, chronic subtle fear that seems to live at the heart of my life experience. This fear, when amplified, becomes anxiety. Yet even when not amplified it's always there like a consistent insecurity that has it extremely difficult to move forward in life. 

 

The information about the amagdyala is interesting, and I wonder what might help with dampening or reducing this subtle fear... and what life might be like without that inhibition. 

 

I'm willing to be a guinea pig and try out some stuff... GP's here don't take me seriously and keep prescribing anti-depressants, yet my gut feeling is that they are only going to make things worse so I haven't taken any.

 

I've just started using 50mg of Bromantane daily, and I notice a very slight reduction in anxiety but that's about it.

 

I tried NSI-189 a single time, and it sent me into a really strange and wondrous space where everything became a little more fascinating... yet when it wore off later that afternoon the crash of emotions that came in was intensely overwhelming and I've been fearful to try it again. 

Edited by GreyMonkey, 22 November 2019 - 09:57 PM.

[bobitza]

My dudes, a very long time ago i posted here about Abilify. In the meantime i have reached another potential conclusion. Aspergers. Abilify just enabled me to communicate and prevented me from crashing. It was quite manic. Nothing extravagant compared to what coffee did to me back then.

Take it with a grain of salt, but hear me out. I was stupid enough to get chlamydia. I got doxicicline (antibiotics) for it. Turned suicidal like never before. Continued taking the damn thing and pumping probiotics. The feeling subsided. Have not felt suicidal ever since. I have reduced the number of beneficial candidates to 1: kefir. Fermented milk with both bacteria and fungi. Consumed maybe 50 liters in a month. I can now drink cofee. I am no longer anxious at wake up. I am no longer depressed. I stay away from caffeine as it does trigger me after some time, but it doesn't take 20 hours anymore to clear from my system.

Now, Aspergers. Read about the overlap between BPD and Autism on NCBI. Take a deep breath and have a rethink.

After praising Abilify so much, i believe that i have shown my strong belief in pharma. I was the last person to recommend fermented food. But here we are. I'm in an infinitely better place now than i was then with no pharma at all. It's not only that i'm not doing badly anymore, but i've managed to rebuild my life to a certain extent.