13 replies to this topic

[Never_Ending]

I've tried st johns wort herb (not extract) is this supposed to give a noticeable difference in mood? I didn't seem to notice much from it. Was just wondering about other people's experience with this too.

 

Also is there any long term positive effects that would remain after stopping usage if used for a prolonged period?

[gamesguru]

between tree fiddy n eleventy six.

long term it can improve bdnf and neurogenesis. what's the dose on your capsules? consider taking two. i took it for 30 days, mgm brand?, also with little effect. no withdrawal. not all herbals are potent. others like vinpocetine and rhodiola are too effective where they border on harsh. and last word, st john's significantly increases risk of developing cataracts and that scares a lot of people away.

[Ricah]

I made here a little longer post about st. john's wort, so I just give a link here

 

http://www.longecity...ia/#entry784802

 

Plant won't affect CNS and prolonged effects depends on type of standarized (in a nutshell hypericin's leads to 5-HT1 and 5-HT2 upregulation, hyperforin's to elevated neurotransmiter's levels).

Edited by Ricah, 07 August 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[William Sterog]

There are some concern with SWJ and it's hability to promote catarats.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19895314

The association between self-reported cataracts and St. John's Wort.

Booth JN 3rd, McGwin G.

Source

Department of Epidemiology, School of Public Health, University of Alabama at Birmingham, Alabama35294-0009, USA.

Abstract


BACKGROUND/AIMS:

Recent interest in Hypericum perforatum, or St. John's Wort (SJW), is related to its observed utility in treating depression. However, mounting evidence suggests one component, hypericin, may be associated with cataractogenesis. To date, this association has not been evaluated in humans. Therefore, the current study assesses the relationship between self-reported SJW use and cataracts utilizing data from a large, population-based sample.
METHODS:

Self-reported data on SJW use in the past 12 months and cataract were obtained from the 2002 National Health Interview Survey, a nationally representative population-based sample. Crude and adjusted odds ratios (OR) and 95% confidence intervals (CI) between SJW use and cataracts were estimated using logistic regression.
RESULTS:

After adjusting for potential confounding characteristics, participants that reported having cataracts were 59% more likely to report SJW use (OR 1.59; 95% CI 1.02-2.46).
CONCLUSIONS:

The results of the current study provide support for an association between SJW use and cataracts. Based on the methodological limitations of this study, further investigation is required.

[Dolph]

For me it (in pharmaceutical quality) was a better AD than SSRIs but not as good as tricyclics.

[gamesguru]

Dolph, maybe yours had less hypericin and more hyperforin? Because mine was like straight placebo, no way it could hold a candle to citalopram or sertraline

[Dolph]

Most certainly that was the case. I used "Neuroplant" made by Schwabe and this particular product is standardised for hyperforin.

 

It has to be said that in Germany this is an OTC drug that is produced and controlled(!) at a pharmaceutical level. I have seen analysis of US-"supplements" that contained almost nothing of the herb at all. Quality is an issue and as I understand it the German industry is using a significant share of the international production of the herb for drug production.

[Never_Ending]

st john's significantly increases risk of developing cataracts and that scares a lot of people away.

 

Wow I didn't know that, I wonder what the reason is but either way I can't seem to get a sufficient effect from it. I might try some other related ones, been wanting to try vinpocetine, it seems to cover many key things.

[gamesguru]

Try not to have a negative expectation, but after a period of weeks to months, the vinpocetine can induce a very paradoxical and undesirable "fatigue" feeling due to a certain monoaminergic desensitization.  That, and it's antidepressive effect is relatively non-selective and weak.  Lastly I would suggest you reread Dolph's post just above yours, we seem to have come to the agreement that a hyperforin-specific extract is called for. Actually there's more...

omega-3s, flax- or hempseed is fine

fiber, polyphenols (aka mindful eating)

chromium, lithium (naturally obtainable), zinc, magnesium

taurine, tyrosine, tryptophan

theanine, inositol, creatine

ALCAR & PS

saffron, turmeric, ginger

bacopa, ginkgo, gotu kola

ginseng, ashwagandha, rhodiola

socialization, exercise, intellectual or aesthetic activities

[Never_Ending]

I will definitely look into the hyperforin extract ... will this have the same side effect of promoting cataracts? Also I wonder if the cataracts are due to the herb itself or the processing/contamination or maybe they used excessive doses for the study.

 

That is a great and thorough list that you mentioned.    What do you (gamesguru and Dolph) think about a supp called PQQ ? Its slightly different in type but was just wondering.

[Dolph]

This cataract data is about as weak as it gets. I wouldn't think a second about it... It's not completely implausible that it may increase risk slightly. But I never encountered anyone who sufferd a cataract in that context. And this is the most used AD in Germany, OTC and Rx.

[gamesguru]

The hypericin seems to selectively cause the photodamage (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23453985), and it is less effective antidepressant. Seems to be a case of the gods laughing at us... the hyperforin is safer and more effective, but more obscure.

[Brock]

I have personally found it to be quite strong. I take it in combination with a stack of aminos and can feel a difference the first day (taking it in cycles) . There is some caution to take, since it uses sodium ions to manipulate reuptake of neurotransmitters like dopamine seratonin and cortisol it can work against you at times. More on that here if you interested. > http://yoururbanalch...ood-disorders/ 

 

FYI: St. John's wort is actually what modeled the creation of Prozac, similar to white willow bark being responsible for advil acetaminophen.  

[Never_Ending]

Thanks Brock , very interesting website