52 replies to this topic

[YOLF]

seivtcho, you've been working with too many amalgam fillings and it's taking it's toll. You're becoming mad as a hatter!

[Danail Bulgaria]

 

3. The machines will replace all the people in their jobs (or at least the most important jobs). This is when the scenario of that topic is starting.

SO WHAT IF THEY DO.

That means that machines will replace all the farmers and food will be both abundant and free. No more cleaning toilets. No more scraping dog crap off the pavement.

If the machines perform the work of humans -- that means at a fundamental level they have no reason not to, nor any reason to not continue to do so.

I want my cooking, cleaning, farming, driving, nappy changing robot. Where can I sign up?

 

 

Food to be abundant and free can't happen in a capitalistic society.

 

If you mean, that when the machines take the jobs of the people everything fundamental will become free for everyone, such as the food, another exmaple can be the medical care, then where you can sign up? Well - in the comunist party.

[Danail Bulgaria]

 

 

 

Eliminated for what reason?

 

The planet can support 20 Billion + humans -- we currently produce 2700 kcal for each human alive -- politics and dictators are the problem.

 

In a post-scarcity (tech singularity world) -- there is no need to be 'productive' in the capitalistic sense.

 

I suggest you read some of "The Culture" series by Iain Banks.

 

...

 

You will be eliminated, and I think, that I posted clearly enough the reason. There will be a robot, that des your job better than you. As the first step you may eventually be simply fired, and left to starve to death together with your familly. So, what do you work, @sensei ? What will you do, when you get fired? And all other jobs are taken from machines?

 

The big players will use the machine,that is better from you, and will sell your kind of work for cents, thus making you impossible to compete and earn enough to feed your familly. This step if exists will be fine, but it may not exist. In this first step in the eyes of the rulers you turn into a dispossable fired useless mumbling junk.

 

At some point the dispossable mumbling loosers in Japan will be come too much, and suddenly the rulers of the world may decide to let after all, the North Korea to send you some missles.

 

During these two steps paralelly will be led a mafiotic war for taking control over the production. That great mafiotic warfare we may name simply the first stage.

 

After that warfare 99,9% of the big world rulers will have killed out each-other, and the remainig 0,1% of them will destroy all the rest of the people and will start living happily surrounded by controllable machines, doing whatever they want, and will have the entire planed solely for them and their familly, without any human idiot available, that to take the power from them. This we may call the second stage.

 

These steps and stages may not exist at all. The rulers may predict that development of the events very easilly, and plan a sudden totally unexpected global kill out, that to launch right after the most important proffessions are being automated. And things may move directly to the second stage.

 

 

Will AIs pay taxes? If I can't work, won't I get disability? I agree, read some culture novels.

 

 

Do you really believe yourself, that after becomming obsolete, the rulers of the world will care for you?

seivtcho, you've been working with too many amalgam fillings and it's taking it's toll. You're becoming mad as a hatter!

 

I have worked with amalgam fillings, but not much if something is taking its toll, its not the amalgam

[sensei]

 

 

 

 

Food to be abundant and free can't happen in a capitalistic society.

 

 

 

Prove it mathematically.

 

Hint: you can't.

 

With 90% of the wealth controlled by 1% of the population, a fraction of them could decide to FEED EVERYBODY for FREE!

 

Once again your ignorance shows through.

 

Serious question:

 

DO you actually understand what post-scarcity means? 

Edited by sensei, 09 December 2017 - 07:52 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

These 1% who holds 90% of the wealth still haven't let everybdy free food at my knowledge.

 

Don't believe any plans, that they will feed you simply just like that for free. It is very naive to believe, that they ever will.

 

I know about the post-scarcity only what I red on wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia...carcity_economy

 

For the free foods you can be fooled very efficiently. The difference between the total enslavement and the wonderfull world, in which you receive everything of first need for free can be very tiny.

[sensei]

These 1% who holds 90% of the wealth still haven't let everybdy free food at my knowledge.

 

Don't believe any plans, that they will feed you simply just like that for free. It is very naive to believe, that they ever will.

 

I know about the post-scarcity only what I red on wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia...carcity_economy

 

For the free foods you can be fooled very efficiently. The difference between the total enslavement and the wonderfull world, in which you receive everything of first need for free can be very tiny.

 

You said a capitalistic society cannot provide free and abundant food.

 

PROVE IT!

 

Else -- retract your statement.

 

The onus is upon YOU to prove your statement.  Otherwise your opinion is just like assholes -- everyone has one

[Danail Bulgaria]

The proof is the fact itself - the present reality - a small percent of the people already have the most of the wealth already and your food is not being given for free.

 

Is there a bigest proof than the exeriment in the real world? The present reality now is like the experiment already finished.

 

What bigger proof do you want?

 

Or maybe you don't believe the present reality. Do you receive your food for free, @sensei  ? If you do, then you are a very excetional execption from the majority lol

Or perhaps you write from some paralel universe in which the capitalists provide the food for free lol.

[sensei]

The proof is the fact itself - the present reality - a small percent of the people already have the most of the wealth already and your food is not being given for free.

Actually, many people are given free food by capitalistic societies:

The fact that current capitalistic governments don't give free food to everyone (the US gives free food to about 50 Million people -- it's called food stamps and TANF), is not germane to your statement.

Furthermore, charities and food banks give even more FREE FOOD.

Also, community farms give free food to those that help with the cultivation.

ALL THIS HAPPENS IN THE US -- NOW.


Just because all capitalistic societies currently don't give free food to everyone does not mean that capitalistic societies CAN'T.

Prove they CAN'T.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Yes, the practice is the ultimate proof  When you see a capitalist country, that provides for free the food of all of its citizens, come back and I will admit, that I am wrong. Until then, the practice shows, that this does not happen in capitalist society.

[sensei]

Yes, the practice is the ultimate proof  When you see a capitalist country, that provides for free the food of all of its citizens, come back and I will admit, that I am wrong. Until then, the practice shows, that this does not happen in capitalist society.

 

 

NO! 

 

YOU -- said capitalistic society couldn't provide free food.

 

It is incumbent (look it up) upon you to prove your assertion (make your argument or point).

 

 

If I stated "all red-headed women are nymphomaniacs" -- I would have to prove that statement.

 

You have to prove yours.

 

 

That is how things work.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Tthe practice is the ultimate proof When you see a capitalist country, that provides for free the food of all of its citizens, come back and I will admit, that I am wrong. Until then, the practice shows, that this does not happen in capitalist society.

 

Since it hasn't happened so far it can't happen This is what I meaned.

 

 

[sensei]

Tthe practice is the ultimate proof When you see a capitalist country, that provides for free the food of all of its citizens, come back and I will admit, that I am wrong. Until then, the practice shows, that this does not happen in capitalist society.
 
Since it hasn't happened so far it can't happen This is what I meaned.

Has not is not equivalent to cannot.

Your logic is faulty -- and I cannot have any more meaningful discourse with someone who does not understand the difference between.

1. The boy has not jumped over the hole. 2.The boy cannot jump over the hole.

If 1 then 2 does not follow logically.

[YOLF]

Not entirely off topic, but Sweden outlawed amalgam filling for the toxicity it causes... this Swedish popstar made a song about the nightmares of getting amalgams I think (just a guess that it's related to the decision):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Watch it Sveitcho!

[Danail Bulgaria]

 

Has not is not equivalent to cannot.

Your logic is faulty -- and I cannot have any more meaningful discourse with someone who does not understand the difference between.

1. The boy has not jumped over the hole. 2.The boy cannot jump over the hole.

If 1 then 2 does not follow logically.

 

 

Prove the reason for that. Poove that it is not because such thing can't happen in a capitalistic society

 

There is enough foord for everyone, but is not reaching for free to everyone in your country.

 

Prove the reason are not the money combined with the behavior, which prefers to leave the food to rot rather than spreading it for free.

 

Your turn now. Disprove the problem are not the money and find the glitch in the capitalistic system, that prevents the food to be for free

[sensei]

 

 

 Disprove the problem are not the money and find the glitch in the capitalistic system, that prevents the food to be for free

 

 

Well, it's not actually proof, but...

 

Most capitalistic countries provide some sort of free health care to everyone -- it comes with the service -- and is paid for by taxes.

 

There is no actual difference between free food and free health care when you look at it from a resource perspective.

 

If you want to use current state as an example then (which isn't a true logical proof, only weak supporting evidence);

 

Because most capitalistic countries provide free health-care to everyone, they can also provide free food.  Robots and AI will make both agriculture and medicine less expensive and more efficient for governments to provide to their citizens. (they already have -- there are completely automated harvesters, oh and the roomba -- dumb AI vacuum cleaner).

 

There you go.

[Danail Bulgaria]

I don't know if you believe yourself for all of the nonsences, that you are writting, or you are playing some game of yours while writting, but whatever it is, I started to go tired, ad your foolishment started to rise my blood preasure. It is obvious, that either your eyes can't be opened, or independently of everything you prefer to be killed after the robots take your money first. And maybe this is what has to happen. Since you don't mind being killed, let them kill you at a will, on the way they decide the best. I am on a small vacation, few days have left from it, and I plan to take the rest of it having a pleasent time, and without getting high preassure. Best wishes!

 

[sensei]

I don't know if you believe yourself for all of the nonsences, that you are writting, or you are playing some game of yours while writting, but whatever it is, I started to go tired, ad your foolishment started to rise my blood preasure. It is obvious, that either your eyes can't be opened, or independently of everything you prefer to be killed after the robots take your money first. And maybe this is what has to happen. Since you don't mind being killed, let them kill you at a will, on the way they decide the best. I am on a small vacation, few days have left from it, and I plan to take the rest of it having a pleasent time, and without getting high preassure. Best wishes!

 

 

In the US that's what we call "taking your ball and going home".

 

It means when you can't get your way, instead of continuing to play -- you take your ball and go home, so nobody gets to play.

Edited by sensei, 14 December 2017 - 02:45 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

 

In the US that's what we call "taking your ball and going home".

 

It means when you can't get your way, instead of continuing to play -- you take your ball and go home, so nobody gets to play.

 

 

I didn't want to return to that topic, but since you keep pushing me in, alright.

 

your last argument for the free medical care in capitalistic countries is not true. The qualitive health care in the capitalistic countries is not free, and is becomming less and less acessible in the time.

[sensei]

In the US that's what we call "taking your ball and going home".
 
It means when you can't get your way, instead of continuing to play -- you take your ball and go home, so nobody gets to play.

 
I didn't want to return to that topic, but since you keep pushing me in, alright.
 
your last argument for the free medical care in capitalistic countries is not true. The qualitive health care in the capitalistic countries is not free, and is becomming less and less acessible in the time.

Completely untrue:

In the US many States provide completely free health care for all children that are not otherwise covered by Medicaid or a Parent.

In Europe (still capitalist) there is free health care for everyone that isn't otherwise covered under an employer or private plan

[Danail Bulgaria]

As far as I know, in the US the health care is so free, that ne visit to the emergency department is at arround 400 dollars, and the americans are so happy for having the free medical care, that they wonder where to run away for medical tourism. 

 

Don't be fooled that you will get an on-time and qualitive medical care absolutely for free in Europe.

[sensei]

As far as I know, in the US the health care is so free, that ne visit to the emergency department is at arround 400 dollars, and the americans are so happy for having the free medical care, that they wonder where to run away for medical tourism. 

 

Don't be fooled that you will get an on-time and qualitive medical care absolutely for free in Europe.

 

Well -- what you know is wrong

[Danail Bulgaria]

Interesting how fast time flies. As it was yesterday when I posted this topic. I decided to make some recapitulations from then to now. What happened.

I was the first, maybe in the entire word, who detected, that the progress of AI which everyone glorified, and the fact, that AI will some day take all of the human jobs, which everybody awaited with an impatience, may actually kill you, after taking your job and you become useless. And that the society and the mankind if you whish has to do something about it.

I decided to post that topic to warn the world if you which. First recapitulation - did at least one man or woman told me thanks - no, and it is not that I didn't receive some kicks in the ass for thankfullness.
I was acused in overexagoration, in unawareness of the benefits which the AI will bring, in becomming mad as the Hatter, etc., both online and offline.
Here comes the first moral. If you manage to somehow detect some danger by no means share it with the dumb crowd. The maximum you will get will be kicks in the ass.
So, my question to you - the next time if I happen to detect something dangerous, shall I share it with a huge lump od dumb asses, or shall I simply keep silent about it, and if some or more from the chunk of dumb asses happens to suffer somehow, shall I simply put my hand on the mouth and say 'my my my... how baaad. my condolescences'.

The most times I was accused by being overexaggorated in the claim that AI will take all of the jobs. And in the view, that this will be a danger. Interesting how time flows. What happened in these years about these two?

It came some time, and hop- appeared ChatGPT and Bing chat.

Came some more time, and hop- the AI started taking our jobs, and the very first were fired because the AI. Something like post 617 from the topic 'Employment crisis: Robots, AI, & automation will take most human jobs'.
https://www.longecit...-21#entry923564

Later on the 'Replacements' continued, some time more, and on the west strted to become 'awared' for the 'eventual' dangers from the AI. Some time later what - started to make conferences, audiencies, and gatherings in USA and the EU about the problems, concernig the AI, and one of which is job replacements, which by no means must be overlooked.

Suddenly, the oppinion of the crowd somewhat shifted on 180 degrees. Mockings and arguments for my overexaggoration, followed by dreams for the world in which we will not work, and AI will do everything specially for your ass, completely for free, were somehow replaced with whips like 'uaaa we didn't have time', for example such as in posts 585 and 586 from the topic 'Employment crisis: Robots, AI, & automation will take most human jobs' in this forum.
https://www.longecit...-20#entry923155
It was not enough the time of SEVEN YEARS, yes YEARS, not days, not hours, but YEARS for the crowd to realize, that this may kill you. And that is not a lack of time. It is a lack of brain. Even if you had 20 years you would still be doing nothing. Why? Because you are dumb, and you don't see the danger even if you are directly pointed with a finger in it. But I don't have how to tell you that without being 'Unfriendly'.

From there moral 2 - AI soon can take all of the human jobs is no longer an overexaggoration.
In connection with that, I decided firstly to ask you all, am I overexagorated, that the AI may take your job? What is your job, which is so untakable from the AI, that you surely will be the solo survivor to survive the crisis? Am I overexaggorated, that AI soon can take ALL of the human jobs?

There were also some developments on things, which other people were responding to me. In this matter, may I invite you kindly, @sensei, to answer me some questions in accordance to your previous posts:
-Do Robots make art - like DALL-E... for example
-How many hardware did you add so far to your 'wetware' in order to prevent you from 'melding with a machine intelligence'
-How is the post singularity economy currently florishing in your country

I wanted also to ask you how many times did you and your familly receive your food for free in your country, and how many times you and your familly had a qualitive, wayward and enough in volume medical diagnostics and treatment for free, but I will hold back.

And by the way, I happened to install an app on my tablet, which claims to estimate 'my brain age'. I established my brain age today. And from the first time I started the topic, until now ha- my amalgama fried brain has moved from the age of 45 to the age of 40. Interesting development for these years of amalgama brain damaging.

 

[HBRU]

I wanted also to ask you how many times did you and your familly receive your food for free in your country, and how many times you and your familly had a qualitive, wayward and enough in volume medical diagnostics and treatment for free, but I will hold back.

And by the way, I happened to install an app on my tablet, which claims to estimate 'my brain age'. I established my brain age today. And from the first time I started the topic, until now ha- my amalgama fried brain has moved from the age of 45 to the age of 40. Interesting development for these years of amalgama brain damaging.

 

 

All the time in evolution some life forms are replaced by others... more advanced.

Nothing strange. Humans have really a lot of limitations and new form of life more advanced are wellcome.

This machines have anyway a LOT to learn from us, so will not destroy all humans... much more probable humans theyrselfes destroy alone.