7 replies to this topic

[Danail Bulgaria]

In the last two months I am thinking about what will happen with the people in a long term perspective.

 

Whatever I think out, and where ever the directions of my thoughts go, I reach only two end points - communism or death.

 

For example what will happen after the machines take our jobs - two options - either the people will not work, and the goods made from the machines willbe spread relatively equaly among all of the people (communism) or a two stages mass death with massive mafiotic warfare for the production as a first phase and genocite for all of the rest people, who suddenly will become obsolete in the second phase. 

 

I usually avoid political topics, but this is about the survival of the human kind, so decided to ask you for your oppinion or suggestions.

 

Can you provide another alternative for when a single person (or a really small group of individuals) come to the end of posessing the world? On one way or another?

[pamojja]

Can you provide another alternative for when a single person (or a really small group of individuals) come to the end of posessing the world? On one way or another?

 

The only way, with the present extent of human integrity, to prevent a small group of individuals from possessing the world is what nature already has implemented: Aging and death.

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 23 August 2016 - 11:27 AM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

That is not a solution. It is again comunism or death.

[RGCheek]

That is not a solution. It is again comunism or death.

 

Some friends of mine and I used to toss this around a bit, and my thinking has changed/evolved on it over the years.

 

Some things I feel fairly sure about:

 

1. The government will have to impose new forms of taxation to replace its revenue streams as people have and hold fewer and fewer jobs in the net aggregate. A special robotics tax on each job that robots have taken up is one way of doing this, as well as a VAT tax.

 

2. Government policies will increasingly shift toward job mongering as time goes on, especially in Western democracies. The people will grow frightened and start making this a single issue for their vote increasingly as jobs evaporate. The only thing that can be controlled is the rate at which the net sum of jobs disappear.

 

3. The adaptation of Nordic Model Socialism (more of a capitalism with a thick veneer of light socialism) and the imposition of a Universal Basic Income will be needed to make people feel safer and secure. Or else they will go into mob frenzy and just eat the wealthy, (who are well marbled and best served well done with rye crackers, and a port wine. At least I hear.)

 

4. People are going to be more autonomous using new forms of manufacturing to become self sufficient and engaging in barter to meet their needs for specialized crafts.

 

5. The development of virtual worlds to give people a purpose, unlimited entertainment and set of goals in life that are harmless, mostly, to humanity will be needed. Some are already quite impressive like EVE online, but it will have to get more complex, multilayered and permanent.

 

Some good articles on this subject line:

What to do after Robots Take our jobs

(http)://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2016/05/04/bill-gross-what-to-do-after-the-robots-take-our-jobs/

 

A Universal Basic Income (from the Wall Street Journal, lol)

(http)://www.wsj.com/articles/a-guaranteed-income-for-every-american-1464969586

 

AI will create a useless class of human

(https)://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/20/silicon-assassins-condemn-humans-life-useless-artificial-intelligence

 

Half of All Americans will own a Robot within 5 years

(http)://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/04/10/zoltan-istvan-interview-part-2/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

 

Scientists ponder how to create Strong AI that wont kill us

(http)://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-18/scientists-ponder-how-to-create-artificial-intelligence-that-won-t-destroy-us

 

Strong AI advances of recent times

(https)://techcrunch.com/2016/05/16/ai-learns-and-recreates-nobel-winning-physics-experiment/

 

(https)://uk.news.yahoo.com/robot-passed-self-awareness-test-113733911.html

 

 

Some examples of good tech responses that will enhance people and make them autonomous from macro economies

 

(http)://www.nydailynews.com/autos/world-3d-printed-drivable-car-takes-44-hours-article-1.1940011

 

(http)://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/11627386/Humans-will-become-God-like-cyborgs-within-200-years.html

 

(http)://www.livescience.com/55540-americas-fear-superhuman-tech.html

Edited by RGCheek, 23 August 2016 - 03:19 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

I hope that I am wrong on that, but what you are posting as solutions may be valid also as steps for ensuring the control over the masses before they to be destroyed.

 

 

Some comments on your ways of solving the situation:

 

These two:

 

"1. The government will have to impose new forms of taxation ... as people ... hold fewer and fewer jobs"

"4. People are going to be more autonomous using new forms of manufacturing to become self sufficient and engaging in barter to meet their needs for specialized crafts."

 

are comunism - making so, that everyone to have relatively equally as the other. If by 4 you mean, that we will be able to do-it-ourselfs everything, for example with 3d printers. If this is what you mean.

 

"3. The adaptation of Nordic Model Socialism (more of a capitalism with a thick veneer of light socialism) and the imposition of a Universal Basic Income will be needed to make people feel safer and secure. Or else they will go into mob frenzy and just eat the wealthy, (who are well marbled and best served well done with rye crackers, and a port wine. At least I hear.)"

 

Depending on how exactly this basic income will be established it either will lead to everyone having everything - communism - or will be an efficient form of temporary slavery before the final solution "It has been anounced that the chocolate ration is to be increased to 100 gramms per week"

 

 

"5. The development of virtual worlds to give people a purpose, unlimited entertainment and set of goals in life that are harmless, mostly, to humanity will be needed. Some are already quite impressive like EVE online, but it will have to get more complex, multilayered and permanent."

 

The last one is extremely frightening and has more than one threats for the humanity in it.

[RGCheek]

I hope that I am wrong on that, but what you are posting as solutions may be valid also as steps for ensuring the control over the masses before they to be destroyed.

 

 

Some comments on your ways of solving the situation:

 

These two:

 

"1. The government will have to impose new forms of taxation ... as people ... hold fewer and fewer jobs"

"4. People are going to be more autonomous using new forms of manufacturing to become self sufficient and engaging in barter to meet their needs for specialized crafts."

 

are comunism - making so, that everyone to have relatively equally as the other. If by 4 you mean, that we will be able to do-it-ourselfs everything, for example with 3d printers. If this is what you mean.

 

"3. The adaptation of Nordic Model Socialism (more of a capitalism with a thick veneer of light socialism) and the imposition of a Universal Basic Income will be needed to make people feel safer and secure. Or else they will go into mob frenzy and just eat the wealthy, (who are well marbled and best served well done with rye crackers, and a port wine. At least I hear.)"

 

Depending on how exactly this basic income will be established it either will lead to everyone having everything - communism - or will be an efficient form of temporary slavery before the final solution "It has been anounced that the chocolate ration is to be increased to 100 gramms per week"

 

 

"5. The development of virtual worlds to give people a purpose, unlimited entertainment and set of goals in life that are harmless, mostly, to humanity will be needed. Some are already quite impressive like EVE online, but it will have to get more complex, multilayered and permanent."

 

The last one is extremely frightening and has more than one threats for the humanity in it.

Communism is not all bad, and I am not referring to Marxism of any kind.  The original communists were simply small communitiues that were built on various frontiers, particularly in America where they tried to re-establish the small communities that the First Century Church ahd going, an attempt to 'restore' it and its way of life.

 

These were generally successful but not widespread, and the secularists like Robert Owen tried to make secular copies of these efforts and that kind of got the ball rolling after Proudhon and others wanted to restore the 'ancient institutions' that they felt had allowed Western civilization to flourish at the end of the Dark Ages.

 

Todays Israeli kibitz are similar communities, and as I understand itthey are fairly successful though not to everyones liking.

 

As to 3D printers, yes, I think that technology and others will give us the ability to meet 95% of our needs and we can barter crafted goods for the rest.  I suspect that home made alcoholof various kinds will be popular.

 

The article on Universal Bsic Income essentially describes a base allowance to each person so that they may particpate in the broader cash economy.

 

A Universal Basic Income (from the Wall Street Journal, lol)

(http)://www.wsj.com/articles/a-guaranteed-income-for-every-american-1464969586

 

The Virtual world thing is frightening to a lot of people, but it is not frightening to millions more who play Warcraft Online, Lord of the Rings online, eVE, Second Life etc.  And it will be a serious undertaking, as, for example one lady is a millionare from buying property in the virtual world Second Life and then developing it and reselling it.

[Danail Bulgaria]

In Bulgaria during the communism we have been teached, that the first successfull creator of the communism is Lenin. The ideology (the main ideas) have been established first from Marx and Engels. Obviously you have had some communists in USA too. I didn't know that and disdn't expect that if I have to be honest.

 

The communism is not destroyed, by the way.

 

There are at least two countries in the world, which are officially comunistic - China and North Korea.

 

In the ex-communist eastern republics still there are many people who have realized themselves as communists and they are simply keeping silent about that.

 

Many people, who are rejecting the communism are unconscious communists

During the communism in Bulgaria many people were agains it. Now the verbal statement of the majority of the people, what they will say to medias for example, and what they believe in, is that they don't like the communism and don't want it back. Nevertheless the most of these people are supporting its ideas one by one simmilarly like the ex-communists fanatics that I remember from the 80's. These opponents of the communism are practically communists without understanding and realizing it at all.

 

Many times when I read different medias magazines and forums, including western ones, I have the feeling I am reading honest communism and reading people dreaming for the nice communist future from the start to the end of the topic, without even realizing what they are writting for.

 

Once we were teched that the communism is undestructible system and that even if by some chance it gets destructed, it will self-revive and self-recover after some time.

 

"They say our leadership is shaking. The ram's testicles are also shaking, but they never fall, do they?"

One of the famous citings of the last bulgarian communist leader - "The comrade Todor Jivkov"

http://profit.bg/new.../nid-95340.html

 

 

Edited by seivtcho, 25 August 2016 - 09:23 AM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

The virtual world makes dim the difference between the real world and the illusion at a subconscious level for the mass of people. This is with horrific long term consequences for the human kind. Imagine the most of the people addicted to stupid computer animated worlds and the real world in a total decay.