82 replies to this topic

[Polyamine]

 

 

 

Elevated ammonia levels in the body are one example of Lyme disease infection, other bacterial infections can causes these elevated levels as well. My stools also smelt of ammonia. The Lyme bacteria release ammonia as an exotoxin within the body, which has the potential to damage neurotransmitter receptors and induce psychological disturbances of the brain, i.e. depersonalization.

Lyme bacteria do not release ammonia as an exotoxin.  Ammonia accumulation in Lyme Disease can occur because of several conditions including increased portal vein absorption and deficiencies in the ornithine pathway.

Edited by Polyamine, 19 September 2016 - 07:32 AM.

[Polyamine]

It is possible you have chronic fatigue syndrome (myalgic encephalomyelitis), which is usually triggered by infection. You might like to look at the CDC definition of ME/CFS, or the stricter CCC definition (see page 2), and check if your symptoms match those ME/CFS diagnostic criteria.

 

The usual infectious pathogens linked to triggering ME/CFS are Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, coxsackievirus B, echovirus, parvovirus B19, Chlamydia pneumoniae, Borrelia, and in Australia, Ross River virus can also cause ME/CFS.

 

Coxsackievirus B and echovirus are hard to test for, but ARUP Lab in Utah USA can test for them.

 

Some more info here: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome — A Roadmap For Testing And Treatment

 

While the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - A Roadmap for Testing and Treatment contains a lot of valuable information, I must point out that the information listed concerning Lyme Disease is inaccurate.  It states that the ELISA and Western Blot tests are used for the accurate diagnosing of Lyme Disease and that is incorrect.  Those tests are the standard by which many physicians base their diagnosis but they are not intended to be used in that manner.  According to the CDC, they were to be used as a statistical analysis only and not as a diagnostic aid.  Lyme Disease was intended to be a clinical diagnosis.  In 2006 when politics got into Lyme Disease, the practicing guidelines were rewritten to include the above tests even though they have over a 50% false negative rate.  The current CDC criteria is too restrictive and some of it is blatantly wrong.  I have a pdf that is 15 MB of various papers pertaining to the inaccuracies of the current testing protocol.  If you would like a copy, just email me.
 

[Hip]

While the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - A Roadmap for Testing and Treatment contains a lot of valuable information, I must point out that the information listed concerning Lyme Disease is inaccurate.  It states that the ELISA and Western Blot tests are used for the accurate diagnosing of Lyme Disease and that is incorrect.  Those tests are the standard by which many physicians base their diagnosis but they are not intended to be used in that manner.  According to the CDC, they were to be used as a statistical analysis only and not as a diagnostic aid.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback about the roadmap. Yes, I am aware of the scientific and political controversies behind Borrelia testing, and aware of the criticisms of the CDC testing protocol. But unfortunately I cannot find any other reliable source to refer to. Some Lyme literate doctors use the IGeneX Lab for Borrelia testing, and in Europe people use ArminLabs, but there are concerns over false positives, as far more people get a positive test result from these labs, compared to standard CDC testing. A false positive can be as problematic as a false negative, in that those with false positives may then stop searching for other infectious causes of their ME/CFS symptoms.

 

So for the moment, because I could not find any other reliable source to refer to, I have just pointed to the CDC testing protocol. Hopefully in a few years, new research and testing methodologies will appear, because the situation at the moment is very unsatisfactory. 

[Hip]

 

I basically just went through several years of severe, significant stress, depression, anxiety where looking back it seems like I was in a chronic 'high cortisol' state.

 

 

Given those symptoms you experienced, you might want to have a look at the list of symptoms my suspected enterovirus caused when I first caught it. Within a a month or two, my virus triggered in me a whole array of neuropsychological symptoms, including: 

 

severe mental tension and anxiety (generalized anxiety disorder)

anhedonia (lack of feelings of pleasure or reward from life’s normal activities)

loss of motivation

depression

frail and feeble emotionally

memory and concentration difficulties

 

My website here lists all the symptoms my virus triggered. As this virus spread to more than 30 friends and family, it triggered similar symptoms in several other people too, so my symptoms were not just an idiosyncratic response to the virus; the virus I caught definitely has a propensity to trigger these sort of neuropsychological symptoms, presumably by its affect on the brain.

 

It was only after two years with my virus that my fatigue and brain fog levels slowly got worse, so that I realized that I had also developed chronic fatigue syndrome / myalgic encephalomyelitis.

 

 

It is possible that you may have caught the same virus, given your severe stress, depression and anxiety symptoms.

 

By the way, if you are still suffering from anxiety, I found some very effective non-drug anti-anxiety treatments, detailed here. My theory is that all the mental symptoms triggered by this virus are underpinned by chronic brain inflammation, which results from the viral infection. I believe the anti-anxiety treatments I found work by reducing brain inflammation, thereby reducing anxiety. 

Edited by Hip, 19 September 2016 - 05:39 PM.

[Hip]

Is it possible I could have CFS without an enterovirus? Also, do you know what chronically high monocytes would indicate in the context of CFS? Are they usually linked to viral or bacterial infections?

 

Certainly. The triggering of ME/CFS is associated with several infectious pathogens: enterovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, parvovirus B19, Ross River virus (in Australia), cytomegalovirus, HHV-6, Chlamydia pneumoniae, Coxiella burnetii and Giardia lamblia. And of course Borrelia can cause symptoms near identical to ME/CFS.

 

Brucella is also known to cause ME/CFS-like symptoms.  

 

Ideally you would be tested for all the above, as they all are connected to ME/CFS.

 

For more info, see the "Microbial Causes and Associations of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" section of this webpage on my website. 

 

 

High monocytes are found in mononucleosis (glandular fever), which is caused by Epstein-Barr virus (and more rarely can be caused by cytomegalovirus), and high monocytes are considered as evidence for having mononucleosis. But high monocytes can also be caused by other infections. 

Edited by Hip, 19 September 2016 - 06:05 PM.

[odspot]

I look at your site. It's difficult to get any sense of a proper trajectory because I have had quite severe OCD since I was 18, as well as major depression since 23 (unrelated to CFS, I believe). Still, I don't really feel like there was a period where I noticed ongoing flu-like symptoms such as a sore throat or sinus blockage, and that has also been the case over the past year when I've developed 'genuine' CFS. But you also mention many don't get the sore throat. So I guess it's possible I was infected with something and just didn't notice because it was superimposed over my regular depression/anxiety. Or it's also possible something else is causing my symptoms.

I'm quite interested in the Equilibrant, but my money is also quite limited at the moment, so I might wait until I have more test results and discuss everything with my doctor once I see her again.

[birthdaysuit]

 

It is possible you have chronic fatigue syndrome (myalgic encephalomyelitis), which is usually triggered by infection. You might like to look at the CDC definition of ME/CFS, or the stricter CCC definition (see page 2), and check if your symptoms match those ME/CFS diagnostic criteria.

 

The usual infectious pathogens linked to triggering ME/CFS are Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, coxsackievirus B, echovirus, parvovirus B19, Chlamydia pneumoniae, Borrelia, and in Australia, Ross River virus can also cause ME/CFS.

 

Coxsackievirus B and echovirus are hard to test for, but ARUP Lab in Utah USA can test for them.

 

Some more info here: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome — A Roadmap For Testing And Treatment

 

While the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - A Roadmap for Testing and Treatment contains a lot of valuable information, I must point out that the information listed concerning Lyme Disease is inaccurate.  It states that the ELISA and Western Blot tests are used for the accurate diagnosing of Lyme Disease and that is incorrect.  Those tests are the standard by which many physicians base their diagnosis but they are not intended to be used in that manner.  According to the CDC, they were to be used as a statistical analysis only and not as a diagnostic aid.  Lyme Disease was intended to be a clinical diagnosis.  In 2006 when politics got into Lyme Disease, the practicing guidelines were rewritten to include the above tests even though they have over a 50% false negative rate.  The current CDC criteria is too restrictive and some of it is blatantly wrong.  I have a pdf that is 15 MB of various papers pertaining to the inaccuracies of the current testing protocol.  If you would like a copy, just email me.
 

 

Yes, Borrelia Burgdorferi is largely a clinical diagnosis, diagnostics are preliminary. Although, in regards to the Western Blot, it is inaccurate because of the change in dead-borne case definition back in the 1990's. So, it is harder to test positive because the change in how many bands light up, which determines the negative, positive, equivocal result. The CDC knew that a double starred band 41 is all that was needed to diagnose Lyme, if the patient had symptoms. Ruling out cross-reactions was easy in the case of 41.

[Hip]

 

I'm quite interested in the Equilibrant, but my money is also quite limited at the moment, so I might wait until I have more test results and discuss everything with my doctor once I see her again.

 

You might want to consider the Alternative Medicine Solutions oxymatrine capsules rather than Dr Chia's Equilibrant, as the former is cheaper. 

[Polyamine]

Does everyone see the common theme to these threads?  Disease is caused by a decrease in biological pathway functioning and this decrease is directly affected by pathogens.  Each pathogen affects the body in its own way and the cumulative effect of all our pathogens causes our sequelae.  One could argue our genetics play a role but the pathogens directly affect our genes though epigenetic shifts.  On could argue nutritional deficiency plays a role but pathogens directly cause nutritional deficiency.   One could argue environmental factors play a role but if no pathogens were present, our immune response would be able to handle an increased environmental toxic load.   Pathogens are the cause of our troubles.

[odspot]

Can anyone recommend a place to get a decent earthing sheet? I'm interested in its purported ability to improve immunity and normalize cortisol levels. There's one on Amazon for $130 but it has mixed reviews and supposedly stops working after a year. I spoke to another local company in Australia that are selling a half-sheet for $320 -- they supposedly use a lot more silver, but it's a little out of my budget. 

[odspot]

Here are my stool results. These don't really seem bad enough to account for my symptoms? 

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[Polyamine]

Here are my stool results. These don't really seem bad enough to account for my symptoms? 

 

Actually, those results are not very good.  The levels of your "good" flora are low and the levels of your "bad" flora are high.  Eating more fiber or inulin containing products can help increase your gram positive bacilli which would be a very good thing.  Supplementing multiple strains of Bifidobacterium and Lactobacillus would help, but what we eat is the key.   Prevotella and Bilophila (not tested) are both gram negative anaerobes and have been shown to be pathogenic.  High levels of these can be problematic and if you are high with Prevotella, I guarantee you have high levels of Bilophila, especially if you eat a lot of protein.  Increased levels of Strep are considered by many to be problematic as they have been shown to be opportunistic pathogens.  This is supported in the literature.  IMO, the combination of your GI flora and unidentified pathogens is causing your issues.  Our modern diet is rich in nitrogen intake and from my research, I've determined that nitrogen intake should be reduced to once or twice a week for an optimal GI bacterial assortment.  This is not popular with many who eat animal protein with every meal but reducing animal protein to only several times a week will reduce your gram negative anaerobe levels which would be beneficial.  People who exert themselves may require more protein to maintain an optimal GI tract.  The pH of what we eat plays a role in overall health IMO because of its effects on our GI flora.  The higher the pH of our diet the better. 

 

http://www.afrh.fr/w...ia HS Baron.pdf

 

http://jcm.asm.org/c...40/4/1129.short

 

http://onlinelibrary...0693.x/abstract

 

The good news is that your candida levels are low. 

[odspot]

 

Here are my stool results. These don't really seem bad enough to account for my symptoms? 

 

Actually, those results are not very good.  The levels of your "good" flora are low and the levels of your "bad" flora are high.  Eating more fiber or inulin containing products can help increase your gram positive bacilli which would be a very good thing.  Supplementing multiple strains of Bifidobacterium and Lactobacillus would help, but what we eat is the key.   Prevotella and Bilophila (not tested) are both gram negative anaerobes and have been shown to be pathogenic.  High levels of these can be problematic and if you are high with Prevotella, I guarantee you have high levels of Bilophila, especially if you eat a lot of protein.  Increased levels of Strep are considered by many to be problematic as they have been shown to be opportunistic pathogens.  This is supported in the literature.  IMO, the combination of your GI flora and unidentified pathogens is causing your issues.  Our modern diet is rich in nitrogen intake and from my research, I've determined that nitrogen intake should be reduced to once or twice a week for an optimal GI bacterial assortment.  This is not popular with many who eat animal protein with every meal but reducing animal protein to only several times a week will reduce your gram negative anaerobe levels which would be beneficial.  People who exert themselves may require more protein to maintain an optimal GI tract.  The pH of what we eat plays a role in overall health IMO because of its effects on our GI flora.  The higher the pH of our diet the better. 

 

http://www.afrh.fr/w...ia HS Baron.pdf

 

http://jcm.asm.org/c...40/4/1129.short

 

http://onlinelibrary...0693.x/abstract

 

The good news is that your candida levels are low. 

 

 

Thanks -- well, at least something finally showed up on a test. I am on a Keto diet due to adrenal-related hypoglycemia, so do eat a lot of protein. I'm confused why my Candida levels are low because my tongue is coated in white. Also, once I began to 'detox' with chlorella, coconut oil and enemas, my skin has broken out with fungal rashes in various places, and I also see -- what I believe is, based on pictures online -- yeast colonies in my stools.

[odspot]

Found this on CureZone: 

 

"I could be wrong, but if it was candida in my mouth, wouldn't the thrush be all over my mouth?

 

No.  I only ever had whiteness on top of my tongue.

 

Here's the weird thing though about the candida, I don't have any symptoms of it other than my tongue. And when I took the stool test I had already been off the strict strict candida diet for a month. I have been eating about 120-150 grams of carbs a day from things like quinoa, sweet potatoes, brown rice pasta without any issue. I know some people eat those items on their candida diet, but I was incredibly strict and just stuck to meat/veggies for 4 months.

 

IMO, intestinal candidiasis is not an overgrowth of Candida, as is popularly believed, but a fungal infection of the bowel wall with hyphal Candida.  A stool test only checks for the yeast form of Candida, which, IMO, is commensal.  A stool analysis does not diagnose pathognic fungal/hyphal Candida.  So, IMO, stool tests are useless for Candida."

 

I wonder if I should ask for a Candida antibodies test?

Edited by odspot, 26 September 2016 - 12:27 PM.

[Hip]

Odspot, you may have geographic tongue rather than oral candidiasis.

 

You can differentiate between oral candidiasis and geographic tongue quite easily by visual appearance. If you perform a Google image search on oral candidiasis, and another on geographic tongue, you can see a clear difference, and you should be able to figure out which condition you have. 

 

With geographic tongue, there are often patches and borders that look a bit like a geographic map (hence the name geographic tongue). With oral candidiasis, you have speckled appearance, and the white Candida coating is often found on other areas of the mouth such as gums and the roof of the mouth; oral candidiasis is not just on the tongue. 

 

 

I developed geographic tongue after catching my suspected enterovirus.

Edited by Hip, 26 September 2016 - 02:47 PM.

[odspot]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is it reasonable to expect that HPA-axis functioning could ever be recovered to the point where noots/stims etc. could be tolerated again? I find being chronically sick being bad enough, but dealing with the unmedicated ADD on top of that makes life mindnumblingly boring. Right now, I can't really tolerate either raising or lowering cortisol .. though, with things that promote detox/die-off, I have been having increasing periods of high cortisol again .. so I know my HPA-axis 'works' ..  

[jack black]

I noticed in the news talk about enterovirus causing paralysis in children (D68). Could it cause milder CNS symptoms in adults?

[Hip]

I noticed in the news talk about enterovirus causing paralysis in children (D68). Could it cause milder CNS symptoms in adults?

 

I have not heard of enterovirus 68 being linked to ME/CFS, if that is your question

 

It usually viruses from the enterovirus B species category that are linked to triggering ME/CFS. The enterovirus B species includes all six coxsackievirus B serotypes (CVB1 to CVB6), as well as various echovirus serotypes (EV1, EV2, etc). It is these coxsackievirus B's and the echoviruses from the enterovirus B category that are the ones linked to ME/CFS.

 

In particular, Dr Chia says the coxsackievirus B and echovirus serotypes that he has found most commonly linked to ME/CFS are:

 

• CVB3 and CVB4 first and foremost

 

• Then CVB2, EV6, EV7 and EV9

 

• And then much less EV11

 

 

In my viral tests, using the sensitive plaque-reduction neutralization test (available at ARUP Lab, Utah), I was found to have a chronic ongoing infection with CVB4, which is the likely cause of my ME/CFS.

 

 

 

Enterovirus 68 actually comes from the enterovirus D species category, and as far as I know, enterovirus D is not linked to ME/CFS.

Edited by Hip, 04 October 2016 - 04:46 PM.

[odspot]

 

I noticed in the news talk about enterovirus causing paralysis in children (D68). Could it cause milder CNS symptoms in adults?

 

I have not heard of enterovirus 68 being linked to ME/CFS, if that is your question

 

It usually viruses from the enterovirus B species category that are linked to triggering ME/CFS. The enterovirus B species includes all six coxsackievirus B serotypes (CVB1 to CVB6), as well as various echovirus serotypes (EV1, EV2, etc). It is these coxsackievirus B's and the echoviruses from the enterovirus B category that are the ones linked to ME/CFS.

 

In particular, Dr Chia says the coxsackievirus B and echovirus serotypes that he has found most commonly linked to ME/CFS are:

 

• CVB3 and CVB4 first and foremost

 

• Then CVB2, EV6, EV7 and EV9

 

• And then much less EV11

 

 

In my viral tests, using the sensitive plaque-reduction neutralization test (available at ARUP Lab, Utah), I was found to have a chronic ongoing infection with CVB4, which is the likely cause of my ME/CFS.

 

 

 

Enterovirus 68 actually comes from the enterovirus D species category, and as far as I know, enterovirus D is not linked to ME/CFS.

 

 

Hip, I saw on Phoenixrising that you mentioned that TH1 activation tended to make you more depressed, which also applied to Earthing. I was just wondering: does that reaction tend to ease up for you with time? I've ordered an earthing sheet, but the company sent me a free wristband in the meantime. I slept with it last night and felt very malaised, foggy and 'blah' today; I also crashed far easier and I don't think it's placebo, because the days before that were some of the best I'd had in months. It was a similar feeling I to what I experienced on probiotics (specifically Miyasarin, which people on PR were raving about), which I also thought might be triggering some kind of immune activation. I'm wondering if that means the therapy is actually working and I should stick with it. 

[Hip]

I did not get depressed when I tried earthing, it just affected my sleep.

[odspot]

I did not get depressed when I tried earthing, it just affected my sleep.

 

My bad. Did you put the worse sleep down to immune-activation, or was it not something that passed with time?

 

I slept poorly last night with a lot of vivid dreaming. But I've also developed a rash where the wrist band was and rashes in other places on my body, so perhaps that's a sign it's doing something. I'll stick with it.

[Hip]

I really don't know what physiological affect earthing during sleep is having one me, to produce disturbed sleep. The first night of earthing I sleep profoundly, like a baby; but then on subsequent nights, earthing causes a shallow, restless, disturbed sleep which is not pleasant. That changeover from sleeping better initially on the first night to sleeping worse on subsequent nights is also unexplained. 

 

If I then discontinue earthing, and restart it again some weeks later, I will again get the deep sleep on the first night, and then again the shallow, restless, disturbed sleep on subsequent nights. Other people have also experienced this.

 

In this post, there are some studies showing the effect that earthing has on the body. Earthing alters the zeta potential of blood cells, and affects the 24 hour cycle of cortisol secretion. There's nothing there about the immune system.

Edited by Hip, 06 October 2016 - 05:11 PM.

[odspot]

I really don't know what physiological affect earthing during sleep is having one me, to produce disturbed sleep. The first night of earthing I sleep profoundly, like a baby; but then on subsequent nights, earthing causes a shallow, restless, disturbed sleep which is not pleasant. That changeover from sleeping better initially on the first night to sleeping worse on subsequent nights is also unexplained. 

 

If I then discontinue earthing, and restart it again some weeks later, I will again get the deep sleep on the first night, and then again the shallow, restless, disturbed sleep on subsequent nights. Other people have also experienced this.

 

In this post, there are some studies showing the effect that earthing has on the body. Earthing alters the zeta potential of blood cells, and affects the 24 hour cycle of cortisol secretion. There's nothing there about the immune system.

 

How long did you give the earthing sheet to see if the sleep issues would pass? I thought I had read that earthing did affect the immune system somehow, but I guess I was wrong. The poster there does speculate that thinning the blood might help the body detox. The way I felt today after sleeping with the wristband was very atypical: I felt flu-ish, depressed, fatigued, had a headache, was excessively thirsty, and had frequent bowel movements. Even though I am very sick, I typically don't 'feel' sick.

[Hip]

How long did you give the earthing sheet to see if the sleep issues would pass? I thought I had read that earthing did affect the immune system somehow, but I guess I was wrong. 

 

Only about 4 or 5 days, because my sleep was just too awful, so I stopped. 

 

If you can find some references to earthing affecting the immune system, please post them. I have not seen any studies like this, but I may have missed them.

[odspot]

 

How long did you give the earthing sheet to see if the sleep issues would pass? I thought I had read that earthing did affect the immune system somehow, but I guess I was wrong. 

 

Only about 4 or 5 days, because my sleep was just too awful, so I stopped. 

 

If you can find some references to earthing affecting the immune system, please post them. I have not seen any studies like this, but I may have missed them.

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25848315

 

This suggests it alters white blood cell concentrations but doesn't go into very much detail.

[Hip]

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25848315

 

This suggests it alters white blood cell concentrations but doesn't go into very much detail.

 

 

Interesting paper. It's quite new, and I had not seen it before. I have added it to the papers I listed on the PR thread.

Edited by Hip, 06 October 2016 - 08:42 PM.

[pamojja]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25848315

 

This suggests it alters white blood cell concentrations but doesn't go into very much detail.

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4378297/

 

The DOMS grounding study report7 contains a summary of the literature on the changes in blood chemistry and content of formed elements (erythrocytes, leukocytes, and platelets) expected after an injury. The immune system detects pathogens and tissue damage and responds by initiating the inflammation cascade, sending neutrophils and lymphocytes into the region.8–12 As expected, the white cell counts increased in the ungrounded or control subjects. White cell counts in the grounded subjects steadily decreased following the injury (Figure 7).7

Figure 7

Comparisons of white blood cell counts, comparing pretest versus post-test for each group.

Previous research has shown increases in neutrophils following injury.13–16 This happened in both grounded and ungrounded subjects (Figure 8), although neutrophil counts were always lower in the grounded subjects.7

Figure 8

Comparisons of neutrophil counts, pretest versus post-test for each group.

As the number of neutrophils increases, lymphocytes are expected to decrease.17–19 In the DOMS study, the lymphocyte count in the grounded subjects was always below the ungrounded subjects (Figure 9).7

Figure 9

Comparisons of lymphocyte counts, pretest versus post-test for each group.

Normally, neutrophils rapidly invade an injured region8,20–22 in order to break down damaged cells and send signals through the cytokine network to regulate the repair process. Neutrophils’ production of ROS and reactive nitrogen species (RNS) is termed the “oxidative burst”.21 While ROS clear pathogens and cellular debris so that the tissue can regenerate, ROS can also damage healthy cells adjacent to the repair field, causing so-called collateral damage. The fact that the grounded subjects had fewer circulating neutrophils and lymphocytes could indicate that the original damage resolved more quickly, collateral damage reduced, and the recovery process accelerated. This would explain the reduction in the cardinal signs of inflammation (redness, heat, swelling, pain, and loss of function) following acute injury, as documented, for example, in Figures 1 and ​and2,2, and the rapid reduction of chronic inflammation documented in Figure 3.

Our working hypothesis features this scenario: mobile electrons from the Earth enter the body and act as natural antioxidants;3 they are semi-conducted through the connective tissue matrix, including through the inflammatory barricade if one is present;23 they neutralize ROS and other oxidants in the repair field; and they protect healthy tissue from damage. The fact that there are fewer circulating neutrophils and lymphocytes in the grounded subjects may be advantageous because of the harmful role these cells are thought to play in prolonging inflammation.24 We also raise the possibility that the inflammatory barricade is actually formed in ungrounded subjects by collateral damage to healthy tissue, as was suggested by Selye in the first and subsequent editions of his book The Stress of Life (Figure 10).25

 

 

 

[odspot]

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25848315

 

This suggests it alters white blood cell concentrations but doesn't go into very much detail.

 

 

Interesting paper. It's quite new, and I had not seen it before. I have added it to the papers I listed on the PR thread.

 

 

Do you have any way of determining whether something is making you 'worse' in a way that might be beneficial vs. just worse?

 

My symptoms have been persisting since sleeping with the earthing band. I feel:

 

Mucus-y and flu-y

Very brain-fogged

Apathetic and more demotivated

More low blood-sugar episodes

My POTS is worse and I'm less tolerant of physical activity

Thirstier and more frequent bowel movements

 

Would you associate these symptoms with immune-activation?

 

The only other change I have made is starting to consume Bentonite Clay. 

[odspot]

I spoke to someone on another forum and I'm starting to think part of my reaction may be due to the Bentonite Clay. Bentonie is high in magnesium (150mg per tsp), and any supplemental magnesium tends to make me feel very demotivated and flat. 

 

Out of interest, do you know what would account for this re: Earthing, Hip?

 

"Earthing decreases sodium, potassium, magnesium, iron, total protein, and albumin concentrations while the levels of transferrin, ferritin, and globulins α1, α2, β, and γ increase. These results are statistically significant."

 

Does that mean it would be necessary to supplement greater levels of these, or does it somehow relate to the body's more productive utilization of minerals/electrolytes?

 

I found it here: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3154031/

Out of interest, do you know what would account for this re: Earthi

[Hip]

Do you have any way of determining whether something is making you 'worse' in a way that might be beneficial vs. just worse?

 

My symptoms have been persisting since sleeping with the earthing band. I feel:

 

Mucus-y and flu-y

Very brain-fogged

Apathetic and more demotivated

More low blood-sugar episodes

My POTS is worse and I'm less tolerant of physical activity

Thirstier and more frequent bowel movements

 

Would you associate these symptoms with immune-activation?

 

The only other change I have made is starting to consume Bentonite Clay. 

 

 

That's hard to know whether feeling worse is just a stage you go through before feeling better, or whether it is just feeling worse. 

 

With medications like immunomodulators, there is often the feeling worse before you get better, but this is well known, so people are prepared to go through it. But for me, if something makes me feel worse, I stop, unless I have read that you need to go through a period of feeling worse before you get better.

 

 

Have you been doing more physical exercise lately? When you have ME/CFS, exercise can worsen symptoms, and give you flu-like symptoms.