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New Rapamycin Study- up to 60% increase in mouse lifespan- Anyone Experimenting With This?

rapamycin

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#241 DareDevil

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:50 AM

I've also taken NR and don't knock it. However I have already tried several treatments discussed here which have considerably greater effects IMHO. So I find it has its place here in the many NR threads and NAD+ threads, etc. In this thread I'm wanting to learn more about Rapamycin which is clearly better when paired with Metformin. I will be experimenting with dosage of Rapamycin much in the conservative quantities described here. However, I don't know how much Metformin is recommended to be taken simultaneously, having heard anything from 500mg/day to 2000mg day. I'm in the process of purchasing both so thanks for your opinions or advice. I weigh in at 160lbs of flubber.

 

DareDevil



#242 maxwatt

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:17 AM

Standard starting dose for diabetics is 500 mg metformin twice a day, It can also be taken in a single 1000 mg dose.  Stomach upset is a possibility, usually recommended to be taken with food. 

1500 and 2000 mg daily doses, divided or not, are prescribed where blood sugar is not controlled.  One side effect of metformin is lowering of iron levels, though outright anemia is probably rare. 

 

Recommend purchase of a glucose test meter, periodic testing. Probably on waking so you have a fasting state.  This is because rapamycin can cause elevated blood sugar levels.  You might use this measurement as an indicator to increase metformin dose if one's blood sugar starts to trend higher.

 

MTORC1 is responsible for rapamycin's "good" effects, MTORC2 for the bad side effects.  (Oversimplifying I know, sorry.)  MTORC1 effects happen quickly, but it takes several days to act on MTORC2, so the thinking is to only take rapamycin for a day (or two?) and then stop.  Half life of rapamycin is about three days, with some individual variation.  Weekly dosing is a convenient way to regulate the effects.  Easier to keep track of than a five or 6 day interval.  (Don't be like, was I supposed to take the tablets today, or on Wednesday????)

 

Some have posited that 3 m g is too low a dose, and 5mg is better used. 6 mg is a commonly cited dosage.  7 may be too high, but ill effects only seem to have been reported if the dosing is not intermittent.  So far.

 

I'm in contact with a 3 mg weekly and a 6 mg weekly self-tester.  Will report when there is something to report.



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#243 Heisok

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:32 PM

Might be a good idea to check B12 if taking Metformin, especially long term.

 

"Long-term use of metformin in DPPOS was associated with biochemical B12 deficiency and anemia. Routine testing of vitamin B12 levels in metformin-treated patients should be considered."

 

 

https://academic.oup...edFrom=fulltext


Edited by Heisok, 21 March 2017 - 04:32 PM.

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#244 PAMPAGUY

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:37 PM

Thought this might be of interest to the group.  It was this paper that influenced me to experiment with Rapa.  It covers most everything to do with experimenting with Rapamycin.

 

http://www.nature.co...is2014520a.html



#245 DareDevil

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 05:11 AM

Reply from TLR

 

it's on the site. It can be bought at 500mg and 1g with $30 off or as the full 5g as priced. With 5g TOTAL commitment we will give $30 off individual orders of the listed 0.5g and 1g price. Plus whatever shipping people wish for, if purchased individually. 

The 5g total is mostly just an honor basis situation. As long as intent a total of 5g seems likely. 

Thanks

 

https://teamtlr.com/...53123-88-9.html


It's on the site. It can be bought at 500mg and 1g with $30 off or as the full 5g as priced. With 5g TOTAL commitment we will give $30 off individual orders of the listed 0.5g and 1g price. Plus whatever shipping people wish for, if purchased individually. 

The 5g total is mostly just an honor basis situation. As long as intent a total of 5g seems likely. 

Thanks

 

https://teamtlr.com/...53123-88-9.html

 

Upon request - instead of the $30 off - TLR is willing to add 25 grams of Metformin to your order of 500mg of Rapamycin, or to add 50 grams of Metformin to an order of 1 gram of Rapamycin. If it is referenced as being out of stock, one can email to inquire.

 

This is the route I am going to take because this tremendously simplifies sourcing for me, and I find that their price is valid, IMHO.

 

DareDevil



#246 PAMPAGUY

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:30 AM

I paid $125, including shipping and wire transfer fee  for 550 Metformin SR 1000 mg = .23 cents per gm.  Also, you only want to order extended release, it works much better.  If your goal is to lose weight then 2000 mg daily will be needed.  See, http://www.longecity...-non-diabetics/



#247 VP.

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 06:54 PM

Dr. Alan Green plans on opening a medical office to provide rapamycin based therapy for age-related disease in a couple weeks. See in comments section. 

http://joshmitteldor...ifespan-trials/

 



#248 PAMPAGUY

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 07:57 PM

As per excellent post by VP

 

 

Alan,

I assumed (not sure why) you took 1mg of Rapamycin six days a week.In reality you take 6mg at one time, once a week? Why do you prefer this over taking 1mg six days a week? Thanks.

 

Dr. Alan Green went on to comment.

 

Hi Jason,
mTOR physiologically is supposed to go up and down. If you take rapamycin daily you keep mTOR at constant low level. This is needed if you want to have somebody stick a foreign kidney in you; but associated with many side-effects. If take once a week, this is like intermittent extreme fasting as regards effect on mTOR and prevents side-effects. To slow down disease-of-aging want mTOR mostly at low physiologic levels consistent with not eating a lot of meals; like maybe you make a big kill once a week and gorge yourself (no refrigerators) and then went hungry to next big kill a week later. To keep mTOR happy need to let it go up to high physiologic levels once a week; otherwise will bite you. Transplant patients can’t do this as soon as mTOR up to high level; acute rejection, no more kidney.


Edited by PAMPAGUY, 24 March 2017 - 08:01 PM.

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#249 DbCooper

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 03:17 AM

Dr. Alan Green plans on opening a medical office to provide rapamycin based therapy for age-related disease in a couple weeks. See in comments section. 

http://joshmitteldor...ifespan-trials/

 

Kind of a disappointed with Dr.Green

 

 

Already booked a flight after he agreed to see me at his new office in NY, upon later learning that I was only 40 he cancelled my appointment saying that I was "too young for rapamycine treatment."  What's the point of anti aging if you don't start treating it until you're very old?

 

Guess Im stuck with finding an Indian Pharmacy or hoping one of these Chineese group buys goes through, with not doctor to monitor my use.  


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#250 DareDevil

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 07:00 AM

That's an interesting read about a weekly intake to induce a spike and a drop in mTOR levels.

 

However, I am wondering about how often to take Metformin in conjunction with Rapamycin.

 

Should its intake parallel Rapamycin's weekly frequency, or is it better to administer Metformin daily?

 

Also, in addition to Metformin, has anyone experimented with using Rapamycin along with aspirin, propranolol, angiotensin II receptor blockers or angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitors? Thanks for your opinions about them.

 

DareDevil


Edited by DareDevil, 25 March 2017 - 07:54 AM.


#251 MikeDC

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 10:08 AM

NR is under hyped. The company has been claiming only that it increases NAD+ in humans. The first study on humans about NR's effect on aging parameters has been completed and will be published soon. The CEO said they communicated the positive results to some Fortune 500 clients and will sign a deal this year.

The hype you talked about are actually personal experiences of people taking NR. The effects are real.
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#252 Valijon

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 08:40 PM

I've taken NR and it was effective at increasing energy when I took 250mg per day. The issue I have with it is price. While I didn't pay this, it ranges between 30 to 50 USD for what I consider the monthly minimum. I'll wait to see if theres more to be excited about with NR. I certainly wont take more if the price increases.

As for being 40 and on Rapamycin, when is a good age to look at slowing aging? I feel the ideal would be 20 or perhaps 25. If you are 40, jump on some anti aging meds right this minute.

In the future, I'll be taking up to 7mg a week of Rapamycin. No, I haven't purchased it yet but, I see it and senolytics in my future for the very long term.

#253 to age or not to age

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 01:22 AM

I feel I am fairly conversant in the drugs  being discussed. I know a number of the scientists. I note that MikeDC lives in Virginia. But I don't know anything about his background.

My antenna are up about him and it's not good. There appears to be an agenda. He could be ...anything. 


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#254 maxwatt

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 01:33 AM

MikeDC's behavior leads me to believe he has an interest, financial or otherwise, in promoting NR.  All his posts are on NR. We've seen this trollish behavior before, years ago, when some parties were promoting resveratrol, and resveratrol from certain vendors.  Coincidentally or not, the ResveraTroll also used a Virginia based ISP.  Mike, please refrain from posting on NR in this or other non-NR related topics.

 

Personally I found NR had no discernible effect.  I suspect there is more than a little individual variability in response.  NR may raise NAD levels, but there is a three-way dance between PPAR, SIRT1 and NAD.  Stimulating one when the other is lacking may be useless.  As is NR for some. Nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) is more promising. I look forward to its availability.

 

In the meantime, while waiting for better senolytics than dirty chemo drugs like dasatanib, rapamycin also has senolytic properties if use intermittently. 


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#255 Valijon

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 01:43 AM

I'm extremely interested in Rapamycin and senolytics. I'd like to try NMN once its available. I am getting a little tired of all our discoveries being hyped up in the news. These are our discoveries and I for one don't want to share the information we acquire with the general public. Why should we let everyone know about something that legitimately works? So some jerks can make big money? Let's take Rapamycin for example. We want a lower price. We don't want the price exploding into the stratosphere.
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#256 sthira

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 02:30 AM

Trolls eventually disappear. But while they're here, they do exact erosion in trust and hope. They're easy to see sometimes, spot 'em a thousand miles away. The scarier species are more subtle, smarter, and learning. But hark: nearly everyone posting here eventually disappears, too, few remain interested in the long term -- great writers and researchers drift in and out; then poof, suddenly no more wisdom. Rare are the honest, long term seekers.

I am getting a little tired of all our discoveries being hyped up in the news. These are our discoveries and I for one don't want to share the information we acquire with the general public. Why should we let everyone know...


Careful here. While I definitely understand your sentiment: careful. Careful be with this language because "our discoveries" aren't ours, and advances "need" to be conveyed in the news as widely as possible. Everyone should benefit -- rich, poor, smart, dumb, there is room at the table for all. In my view, the quest to slow down aging is in part a movement to help alleviate human suffering, which I'm sure you support. Who wants to watch anyone suffer? As far as money goes, the profit motive in medicine is what's dragging us down; but this view is controversial, too. While I may see fat cats banking off the pain and misery of others as reprehensible another view says, well, competition is ultimately positive and raises the waters for all. I think I understand their argument.

Meanwhile, as we watch CRISPR advance, I think removal of greed from the human species will be good for us. But I already hear the screaming dissent that manipulating the germ line makes me a Orwellian. Looking for silver lining in clouds: one positive aspect of the Trump mivement for US citizens is that hopefully what's unleashed upon us will inspire more scientists to enter the political arena.
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#257 Valijon

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 02:47 AM

Too much competition destroys hard work. I have college degrees and with them I can read and understand what is written in things like peer reviewed journal articles. I understand what I'm reading. My education was expensive and difficult. Taking years of sacrifice. I am loathe to have information simplified and given away.

I'm protective of what I learn. While I freely share here I wouldn't share elsewhere. If someone were to ask me why I looked so young and had so much energy I would simply say good genetics or an excellent diet.
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#258 sthira

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 03:05 AM

...I am loathe to have information simplified and given away.

I'm protective of what I learn. While I freely share here I wouldn't share elsewhere. If someone were to ask me why I looked so young and had so much energy I would simply say good genetics or an excellent diet.


Yeah, I'm with you up to a point: meaning no one in my real world of offline knows much or even cares about my anti-aging interests here, either.

But I guess I'm wondering if you're protective of what you, Valijon, learn do you advocate that protection for everyone else, too? I hope not! What would keep others from hiding advances from me and you and everyone silently reading? We can't know everything, right, no matter how much time and sparks we devote. We have to trust that people are being honest, open, and they're sharing.

I find trolls amusing -- except those trolls who are smarter than I am, and who are trolling me without my awareness. It's fragile here.
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#259 Valijon

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 03:14 AM

I wouldn't give away an advantage. Some things happening in the news remind me of telling people about your awesome secret fishing hole. Another example is the gold rush. A guy owned that land, he just couldn't protect it and people stole his gold. People have been searching for ways to extend their lives for as long as there have been people. As it stands, we can get some things for ourselves from overseas and or group buys. One of the reasons for this is because most people aren't aware of the benefits of these drugs and availability is limited. Imagine what happens once people by the millions go after these same medicines. Its a simple matter of supply and demand.

#260 sthira

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 03:30 AM

A secret fishing hole and gold rush hoarders are different from attempts to make life better for people and the planet. I guess what I'm driving at is there's an argument that opposes extending human LS because, they say, it'll only benefit the wealthy.

So what will keep the wealthy ("...[T]he world’s eight richest billionaires control the same wealth between them as the poorest half of the globe’s population...") what would keep them from hiding anti-aging advances from you if they felt how you felt:

These are our discoveries and I for one don't want to share the information we acquire with the general public. Why should we let everyone know...


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#261 Valijon

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 03:35 AM

I'm actually surprised the super rich haven't found a way to keep this information to themselves.
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#262 tintinet

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 11:38 AM

I'm actually surprised the super rich haven't found a way to keep this information to themselves.


Just imagine what they have kept hidden! ;). Warren Buffet says he lives on MacDonald's and Coca Cola, BTW.

Edited by tintinet, 26 March 2017 - 11:50 AM.


#263 tintinet

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 11:53 AM

I'm extremely interested in Rapamycin and senolytics. I'd like to try NMN once its available. I am getting a little tired of all our discoveries being hyped up in the news. These are our discoveries and I for one don't want to share the information we acquire with the general public. Why should we let everyone know about something that legitimately works? So some jerks can make big money? Let's take Rapamycin for example. We want a lower price. We don't want the price exploding into the stratosphere.


Is not NMN available?

http://www.revgeneti...mononucleotide/
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#264 MikeDC

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 01:33 PM

NMN is extremely expensive. NMN and NR have the same effects. NMN converts to NR before entering the cell membrane.
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#265 Valijon

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 07:55 PM

NMN is extremely expensive. NMN and NR have the same effects. NMN converts to NR before entering the cell membrane.


Mike,what can you tell us about the differences between the supplement formulas of NR and the prescription medication. What are the big differences? Amount absorbed? Enteric coated time released formula? Higher milligrams? Please elaborate for us someplace on Longevity.

What do you know about NMN versus NR?
Has anyone set up a log for their Rapamycin usage? I'm extremely curious to read about personal experiences from anyone with ongoing use.
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#266 DareDevil

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 08:53 PM

 

NMN is extremely expensive. NMN and NR have the same effects. NMN converts to NR before entering the cell membrane.


Has anyone set up a log for their Rapamycin usage? I'm extremely curious to read about personal experiences from anyone with ongoing use.

 

 

Yes I second that. It would be nice to talk about Rapamycin here and no longer have this thread hijacked with NR talk. While NR may be God's give to nature, it has no place in this thread, much less a dominant one. Thanks Mike DC but I would rather hear your surely interesting comments on NR when I am interested in NR by reading them in an NR thread. I hope you understand this so that the Moderators and site administrators may attend to more important matters.

 

DareDevil
 


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#267 Jaris

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 09:08 PM

Wow, guys, I look away for a few days and this topic has EXPLODED!
 
Some posts are a little off-topic (NR) but at least it's toned down a little since MikeDC went relatively quiet. I do take NR along with Sirolimus, but still, we all know how to find NR threads, so let me try to get us back to the topic's original purpose; sharing details of our RAPAMYCIN experiments, and hopefully results.
 
Valijon, a long time ago I offered to take everybody's info - age, dosing scheme and results and put them in an organized table of some sort, but had no takers. We seem to be a secretive bunch. I'll offer again: send your basic info to me and I will compile it for everyone.
 
I've been taking 6 mg once a week for 8 weeks. Before that I took smaller doses, but that's probably not important.
A little over a week ago, I decided to change my dosing scheme, and so far I'm glad I did. But it's a little complicated to explain, and I want to run my math past everyone to make sure it's correct, so please read the following carefully. I really do want constructive corrections, comments, and criticism.
 
I'll start with what I've learned about R's normal half-life. According to 2 sources, it's between 57 and 63 hours, so on avg 60 hours or 2.5 days. Taking 6 mg once a week, R remaining in the body would look like this:
 
6mg      @   0 days  (+ any left over from previous dose)
3mg      @   2.5 days
1.5mg   @   5 days
0.75mg  @  7.5 days
 
This seems sub-optimal to me; it drops off too quickly. From discussions here and elsewhere, it seems that it's better to have a good dose that stays high for 2-4 days, then have a steeper drop-off on the last 2-3 days (roughly).
Some of you may remember a brief discussion about grapefruit juice (GJ). Drinking 8 oz of GJ a day significantly lowers P450 enzymes that would normally break down R.
This means that drinking GJ a few hours before taking Sirolimus, you can increase the effective dose by 350%. By continuing to take 8 oz of GJ a day,  the effective half-life is also extended, so that the drop-off is slower. Stopping the GJ after 2-3 days should return the half-life to normal after another 2 days or so. Taking 2 mg of Sirolimus after drinking GJ might look more like this:
 
2 mg x 3.5 = 
7 mg (+ any left over from previous dose)
6 mg @ 2.5 days (stop drinking GJ)
3 mg @ 5 days
1.5 mg @ day 7.5
 
Compare these scenarios. For the 2nd, the level stays higher for 2.5 days before dropping down. If you want to be more aggressive, taking 3 mg of Sirolimus after drinking GJ might look like this:
 
3 mg x 3.5 = 
10.5 mg (+ any left over from previous dose)
9 mg @ 2.5 days (stop drinking GJ)
4.5 mg @ 5 days
2.25 mg @ day 7.5
 
This last scheme might be over doing it, and some people might start experiencing side effects that are seen with higher doses. Or maybe not.
I've been doing the 2 mg (+ GJ for the first 2 days) last week and yesterday, and my results took a good jump. So far, it's still too early to be sure, and this could still be a placebo effect. I'm able to do more reps with heavier weights,  60% more push-ups, jog up hills faster, etc. I continue to lose about a pound a week. Most of all, I feel better and more inclined to eat better and exercise more. I know this is subjective, but I do feel a sense of well-being, especially in the first few days of the week. One other bonus: I had a moderately severe fungal infection on a big toe, and now it's gone. R is an anti-fungal after all.

Edited by Jaris, 26 March 2017 - 09:26 PM.

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#268 tintinet

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 10:04 PM

I had been taking 1 mg rapamycin EOD along with naringin for a few weeks. No discernable effects, positive or negative. More recently changed to 3 mg rapamycin every 5 days, also with naringin.  Same results so far.


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#269 Jaris

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 11:00 PM

 

I'm actually surprised the super rich haven't found a way to keep this information to themselves.


Just imagine what they have kept hidden! ;). Warren Buffet says he lives on MacDonald's and Coca Cola, BTW.

 

Just because they're rich doesn't make them smart. And even if they're smart in one way, they might be clueless in others.

Besides, maybe it's smart of them to let lab rats (us) take the risks. 

Keep in mind though that R is not protected by a patent, so there's relatively little the rich can do about it.


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#270 VP.

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 11:10 AM

 

 

I'm actually surprised the super rich haven't found a way to keep this information to themselves.


Just imagine what they have kept hidden! ;). Warren Buffet says he lives on MacDonald's and Coca Cola, BTW.

 

Just because they're rich doesn't make them smart. And even if they're smart in one way, they might be clueless in others.

Besides, maybe it's smart of them to let lab rats (us) take the risks. 

Keep in mind though that R is not protected by a patent, so there's relatively little the rich can do about it.

 

Long article just out in the New Yorker on this subject. The bottom line, rich people are putting billions into anti-aging but no home runs yet (we know that). A few drugs mentioned I will have to check out. Strange that Rapamycin is never mentioned though mTOR is. I have been taking R since January and I will report in detail later on any results. I have settled on 2 mg once every two weeks with one week of grapefruit juice once a day. So far I feel fine. Steadily increasing FTP (about 8%) and increases in lifting strength but nothing that couldn't be explained by the training effect. Have not been sick yet though I do get a mouth sore for a few days at 2 mg with grapefruit juice but no sores if I go at a lower dose or leave out the juice. Spring allergies seem unaffected, ie as bad as usual. No metformin yet. 

http://www.newyorker...to-live-forever


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