955 replies to this topic

[Alpharius]

Just short report, I tried the Rapamycin from TLR, took 5 mg dissolved in Ethanol and have to say it caused the same slight lesions on the mouth mucous membrane wich I had from pharmacy purchased rapa tablets too. I also experienced a shortness of breath for 2-3 days. Did anybode else here experienced the same? Apart from that I felt very awake early in the morning for several days, staying up at 5 AM, but then became very sleepy around 10 pm.

Edited by Alpharius, 02 June 2017 - 09:05 AM.

[VP.]

 

 

Good luck. Are you taking anything else? Did you see Dr Green at his office? Only 40 yo very low dose.
Again, Good Luck

I understand Dr. Green will not see anyone under 60. Is that still true?

 

 

I've been in contact with Alan for about a year.  We agreed the risks for a 40 years person on rapamycin is low if the dose is lower and slightly less frequent than the "standard protocol."  He will see people under 60.  

 

Does Dr. Green have you on the full protocol including Metformin, statins, aspirin and Lisinopril?

[malbecman]

 Just a note on dosages.  This is from Medscape.  It looks like the normal loading dose for organ transplants is 15mg followed by 5 mg/day maintenance to reach steady state blood levels for those >40 Kg (adults).  

Calculated half Life was ~60 hrs as reported earlier.

 

 

• ≥40 kg: 15 mg PO loading dose
• Maintenance: 5 mg/day PO if >40 kg

[PAMPAGUY]

Transplant dosages have nothing to do with aging dosages and schedules.  Everolimus, a rapalog of Rapamycin (Sirolimus) is used for transplant medicine because it only has a half life of 30 hours.

[malbecman]

 I realize that the transplant dosages are not the same as anti-aging doses.   It seemed like there was some potential concern from users taking 6-8 mgs. I was just pointing out that people take higher and more frequent dosing as a point of reference.

Edited by malbecman, 02 June 2017 - 06:23 PM.

[tintinet]

I realize that the transplant dosages are not the same as anti-aging doses. It seemed like there was some potential concern from users taking 6-8 mgs. I was just pointing out that people take higher and more frequent dosing as a point of reference.

Ya, immunosuppressed organ transplant recipients who face increased risk for cancers and infections.

And...Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy: a case study.

McCalmont V1, Bennett K.
Author information
1
Sharp Memorial Hospital, San Diego, CA, USA.
Abstract
Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy is a rare, highly fatal demyelinating brain infection caused by the JC virus. This infection is associated with immunosuppressive agents and is emerging in the transplant population. There has never been a documented case of progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy in a transplant recipient receiving sirolimus. We present a study, in which the JC virus was found in a 68-year-old man who had received a postorthotopic heart transplant 3 years earlier and who was receiving sirolimus and prednisone for immunosuppression. We review the clinical presentation, diagnosis, current treatment options, and the outcomes of progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy in transplant recipients.

Edited by tintinet, 02 June 2017 - 10:35 PM.

[Decimus]

Good luck. Are you taking anything else? Did you see Dr Green at his office? Only 40 yo very low dose.
Again, Good Luck

I understand Dr. Green will not see anyone under 60. Is that still true?

I've been in contact with Alan for about a year. We agreed the risks for a 40 years person on rapamycin is low if the dose is lower and slightly less frequent than the "standard protocol." He will see people under 60.

Does Dr. Green have you on the full protocol including Metformin, statins, aspirin and Lisinopril?

We discussed metformin. My feeling is that the data is not that impressive. He mostly agreed. Because of my age and general good health we both felt that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze for the other meds.

He was extremely bullish on the statin and its ability to increase lifespan. He seemed as or more excited about this as he was about rapamycin.

[PAMPAGUY]

This is the results from 3 mouse studies with rapa only in 2, and rapa + metformin in the other.  I personally agree that the evidence for anti-ageing for metformin is ragged.  I take 1000 mg Metformin SR.  It helps me to lose weight by curbing hunger. (has lowered by fasting glucose)  With the safety profile so good, it might make sense to take 500 mg daily.  I personally believe that Metformin+Rapa in human studies would show a synergetic effect.  Also Rapa has a tendency to lower glucose sensitivity(side effect) and Metformin would counter that.  I believe Dr. Mikhail V. Blagosklonny stated in his paper that many of drugs in the formula are used to mitigate the effects of Rapa such as Metformin and Statins.

 

 

https://static1.squa...3/?format=1500w

 

 

 

[VP.]

Very informative interview with Dr. Green by P. D. Mangan of Rogue Fitness. Must read. 

http://roguehealthan...an-s-green-m-d/

 

Edited by VP., 06 June 2017 - 02:05 AM.

[Heisok]

Very important, as some have wondered if worth the side effects.

 

 

PDM: Since I’m not a fan of statins myself, I note that you stopped taking one due to adverse side effects. What do you make of studies showing that higher total cholesterol is associated with longer life? Have you revised your opinion at all on whether it’s worthwhile to lower cholesterol or take a statin?

ASG:  I agree with your basic point that you don’t like surrogate markers. Lowering cholesterol doesn’t prove statins prevent heart attacks. However, I have seen studies showing statins lower all cause mortality. So I would use statins, if it did not cause problems for me.

[VP.]

"My rough guess of the relative value of each as anti-aging drug would be as follows: rapamycin, ACE inhibitor/AR blocker, metformin, aspirin: 75, 18, 6, 1".

http://roguehealthan...an-s-green-m-d/

[MikeDC]

"My rough guess of the relative value of each as anti-aging drug would be as follows: rapamycin, ACE inhibitor/AR blocker, metformin, aspirin: 75, 18, 6, 1".
http://roguehealthan...an-s-green-m-d/

Niagen 100

[Valijon]

NR 3

[MikeDC]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...&from=metformin
Metformin as a life extension drug is far from certain. This study shows metformin increases risk of dementia in T2D patients.

[tintinet]

↓ Full text

Incidence of dementia is increased in type 2 diabetes and reduced by the use of sulfonylureas and metformin.

Randomized controlled trial

Hsu CC, et al. J Alzheimers Dis. 2011.

Show full citation

Abstract

To determine incidence of dementia in type 2 diabetic (T2DM) patients, and whether there are adverse or favorable effects of oral agents (OA) in DM, we obtained a representative cohort of 800,000 from Taiwan’s National Health Insurance database. Those who, as of on January 1, 2000, were 50 years or older and dementia free (n = 127,209) were followed until December 31, 2007, in relation to absence (n = 101,816) or presence (n = 25,393) of T2DM, and whether any OA was used. Dementia was ascertained by ICD9-CM or A-code. Dementia incidence densities (DID) and fully adjusted Cox proportional hazard models were used to estimate association between dementia, DM, and OA. Notably, DID (per 10,000 person-years)was markedly increased with DM (without medication), compared to DM free subjects (119 versus 46). Using non-DM as reference, the adjusted hazard ratios (HRs) (95% confidence interval) for DM without and with OA were 2.41 (2.17–2.66) and 1.62 (1.49–1.77), respectively. For T2DM, compared with no medication, sulfonylureas alone reduced the HR from 1 to 0.85 (0.71–1.01), metformin alone to 0.76 (0.58–0.98), while with combined oral therapy the HR was 0.65 (0.56–0.74). Adjustments included cerebrovascular diseases so that non-stroke related dementias were found to be decreased in DM with sulfonylurea and metformin therapy. T2DM increases the risk of dementia more than 2-fold. On the other hand, sulfonylureas may decrease the risk of dementia, as does metformin; together, these 2 OAs decrease the risk of dementia in T2DM patients by 35% over 8 years.

PMID  21297276 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

Metformin-inclusive sulfonylurea therapy reduces the risk of Parkinson's disease occurring with Type 2 diabetes in a Taiwanese population cohort.

Wahlqvist ML, et al. Parkinsonism Relat Disord. 2012.

Show full citation

Abstract

OBJECTIVES: Type 2 diabetes (T2DM) may increase the risk of Parkinson's disease (PD). We evaluated the role of oral anti-hyperglycemic agents (OAA) in any diabetes-PD linkage.

METHODS: From the Taiwan National Health Insurance database on 01-01-2000, a representative cohort of 800,000 was obtained between 1996-01-01 and 2007-12-31. Those ≥ 20 years were classified by presence (n = 64,166) or absence (n = 698,587) of T2DM, and whether any OAA (n = 41,003) or not (n = 23,163) was used. Those with T2DM were matched with those diabetes-free by birth-date and gender for the comparison of PD incidence. We considered those ≥ 50 years and matched PD-free diabetes patients with and without OAAs by age, gender, locality, health service, Charlson comorbidity index and T2DM diagnosis-date to avoid 'immortal time bias'. PD incidence densities (PID, per 10,000 person-years) and hazard ratios (HRs) were calculated.

RESULTS: HRs (95% confidence interval, CI), related to diabetes-free, were 2.18 (1.27-3.73) and 1.30 (0.77-2.19) for T2DM without and with OAAs. For sulfonylurea alone, PID (95% CI) increased from 58.3 (46.6-70.1) to 83.2 (68.6-97.7), with similar findings by gender, but little difference if metformin was used. The metformin-alone HR (95% CI) was 0.95 (0.53-1.71), sulfonylurea-alone 1.57 (1.15-2.13), and combined therapy 0.78 (0.61-1.01) and these differences persisted when incident PD was excluded for 4 years after T2DM diagnosis. The use of metformin first, in those without insulin, provided an HR of 0.40 (0.17-0.94).

CONCLUSIONS: Incident PD risk in T2DM increases 2.2-fold. Sulfonylureas further increase risk by 57%, which is avoided by combination with metformin.

 

[DareDevil]

Here's an anecdote which will make a few of you laugh, and maybe alarm a few others, but remember my board name. Instead of doing the usual oral intake of 10mg of Rapamycin last week I took it by SubQ injection. Yes, it's stupid, but I've been injecting so many substances subQ lately, to the point that oral intake seems quite unusual. And I had mixed and stored it in a recycled injection vial so it looked like an injectable. Don't worry, now I have labelled it ORAL so this doesn't happen again. In any case, I have no bad effects to report one week later. The worst was the injection itself. It had been dissolved in alcohol so I injected alcohol subQ. Don't ask, yeah it stung like heck. Other than that nothing else bad happened, unless there's a relation to the recent white canker sore inside my mouth the size of a half dollar? Yeah, that stings too, especially when I suck on a lemon lol.

 

Cheers,

 

DareDevil

[MikeDC]

Even if they make a perfect mTore1 inhibitor, it will still be not as good a Nicotinamide Riboside or NMN. You guys are just hurting yourself with Rapamycin while a perfect life extension product is cheap and readily available.

[Decimus]

Even if they make a perfect mTore1 inhibitor, it will still be not as good a Nicotinamide Riboside or NMN. You guys are just hurting yourself with Rapamycin while a perfect life extension product is cheap and readily available.

Show me the data that shows NMN extends lifespan in mice and show me the data that intermittent use of low dose rapamycin is harmful.

[maxwatt]

Here's an anecdote which will make a few of you laugh, and maybe alarm a few others, but remember my board name. Instead of doing the usual oral intake of 10mg of Rapamycin last week I took it by SubQ injection. Yes, it's stupid, but I've been injecting so many substances subQ lately, to the point that oral intake seems quite unusual. And I had mixed and stored it in a recycled injection vial so it looked like an injectable. Don't worry, now I have labelled it ORAL so this doesn't happen again. In any case, I have no bad effects to report one week later. The worst was the injection itself. It had been dissolved in alcohol so I injected alcohol subQ. Don't ask, yeah it stung like heck. Other than that nothing else bad happened, unless there's a relation to the recent white canker sore inside my mouth the size of a half dollar? Yeah, that stings too, especially when I suck on a lemon lol.

 

Cheers,

 

DareDevil

I hope you are exagerating about the size of the canker sore.  I've never had one greater than the diameter of a pencil eraser.

Peroxide treatment is supposed to treat them, taking three days from application to healing.

And here's one I use, but it really hurts for a minute,  Hot chili sauce. or other source of capsicum.  Applied to the sore with a cotton swab, yeah, it hurts, but the sore is gone by next morning.  At least for me.

 

[Jaris]

Here's an anecdote which will make a few of you laugh, and maybe alarm a few others, but remember my board name. Instead of doing the usual oral intake of 10mg of Rapamycin last week I took it by SubQ injection. Yes, it's stupid, but I've been injecting so many substances subQ lately, to the point that oral intake seems quite unusual. And I had mixed and stored it in a recycled injection vial so it looked like an injectable. Don't worry, now I have labelled it ORAL so this doesn't happen again. In any case, I have no bad effects to report one week later. The worst was the injection itself. It had been dissolved in alcohol so I injected alcohol subQ. Don't ask, yeah it stung like heck. Other than that nothing else bad happened, unless there's a relation to the recent white canker sore inside my mouth the size of a half dollar? Yeah, that stings too, especially when I suck on a lemon lol.

 

Cheers,

 

DareDevil

DD, wow. I mean yeah. Wow.

OK, good to know even that won't kill you. Really? A half dollar?

 

I'm going to make a more detailed and relatively non-boring report on my experience so far.

First a refresher: I'm 59, diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease 8 years ago, but with no other major health issues. Not pre-diabetic, obese, or anything else. I've recently been eating vegetarian; I still eat eggs, but no dairy. I've been carefully watching my omega 3 vs omega 6 ratio, as that's been shown to have a significant impact on inflammation. I've also been consuming broccoli sprouts to keep cleansed. Plus a list of relatively normal supplements which I've listed before.

 

I won't go over my entire history, but i've been taking R for 22 weeks; 2-3 mg / week for the first 12 weeks, and 9 mg of R a week for the last 10 weeks. Just one exception: week before last, I didn't take a dose, because I wanted to make sure it wasn't building up. After re-starting this week, I got 3 small mouth sores that lasted 5 days. Those were the first I'd seen in many weeks.

 

I'm more and more pleased with my progress on several fronts:

1. I lost 12 lbs since starting, and am now only 3 lbs above my ideal weight.

2. I now jog or run a half to full mile nearly every day. Sometimes I even sprint the last 200 yards up a hill. My heart no longer feels stressed at all, just well exercised.

3. I can now do 40 push ups w/o stopping. When I was 50, before PD, I could do 45. Just before starting Rapamycin I could do maybe 10. So 40 is very good.

4. For me, the biggest benefit has been the reduction in my PD symptoms. This is hard to quantify as PD symptoms vary day-to-day and depend on a dozen variables; amount of sleep, caffeine, blood sugar, exercise, etc. But I'm seeing an overall steady - possibly accelerating improvement. PD sufferers understand that making a claim like this isn't something to do lightly. Nobody wants to get anyone's hopes up w/o real documented proof, and I want to be clear that I don't have that. Others w/o PD might find this interesting b/c PD is somewhat similar to Alzheimer's and other age-related diseases of the brain.

5. Finally, my mood is off the charts. PD-related depression is common b/c in addition to dopamine, serotonin is also greatly reduced. Basically, the PD brain lacks the chemistry to feel good. I'm no longer experiencing that, and I find myself enjoying things again.

 

For the record, I should make one more thing clear; I take Rytary, which is a dopamine replacement drug, and it does reduce some physical symptoms. BUT I've been on the same dose for over a year, and before Rapamycin I didn't feel 50% as good as I do now. Normally, as time goes by, drugs like Rytary have to be increased as more brain cells die. In contrast, I've sometimes gone w/o a dose and barely noticed it. Those with PD will understand that this is unheard of. I'm not ready to tell others with PD, b/c this is not a scientific study with all the control groups, double-blinds, etc. etc. But I'm still cautiously optimistic, and maybe a bit more.

[TaiChiKid]

 

Jaris and Valijom,

 

Taking rapa formula before 60 yo.   Just remember what rapa does.  By inhibiting the signal to TORC 1, it is getting rid of bad senescent cells.

https://www.fightagi...enescent-cells/

 

In other words at ages under appx. 60 years you do not have the problem of bad senescent cells which makes you age and all the diseases that go with that.  Your immune system is strong.  In mouse studies they gave young and old mice rapa until death.  They all lived longer, but there was little or no benefit to taking rapa at a earlier age.  A normal person in his 50's can run marathon's and really improve his body and stamina, but once ageing kicks in that is not possible.  Then you want a delaying action by using the rapa formula.  To delay death and ageing and by doing that you are delaying all the diseases that go with it.  If you really want to learn, read Dr. Greens website and all the cites listed there and all your questions will be answered.

 

Rapa is not a fountain of youth.  A young person is not going to get more energy, and get younger.  The best an ageing person can do it delay death for as long as possible until something better comes along, and I believe that will happen in the next 10-20 yrs.

 

If I was under 60, I would not even think of experimenting with rapa, but would concentrate on healthy eating and exercise in order to feel good and strong.  The age of 60 is considered middle age for mice and people when it comes to ageing.  Somewhat different than normal thinking, but if a person is going to live to 90 or above it makes sense.

 

One person's opinion.

Oh, it does a lot more than get rid of senescent cells. As someone has said before: when we are young, "grow, grow, grow" is appropriate and necessary. But as we age, our cells are spending too much time growing and not enough cleaning out garbage and repairing, so by the time we're 50, our cells are already sloppy and leaking, causing inflammation and damaging other cells. If you've never compared a 50 yo's cells to a 30 yo's (human) you really should; the difference is startling. There is (was?) a youtube video on that but now I can't find it.

 

snip....

 

Jaris, do you have any research or theories about which type/s of senescent cells this therapy might address?
 

[DareDevil]

Hi Maxwatt,

 

Thanks for the advice, I will use hydrogen peroxide on a Q-tip (not a subQ tip lol) to treat the sore.

 

 

Hi Jaris,

 

I see that the sores can be caused by Rapamycin. I venture to say that maybe injecting it makes a bigger sore? For those here just logging in, don't ever inject Rapaymycin. Mine covers a good part of the left side of my lower inner lip. I expect it will go away once treated. It does smart ! 

 

Cheers,

 

DareDevil

[VP.]

Are you also taking Metformin Jaris? Fantastic news about your health!

[PAMPAGUY]

SIDE EFFECTS RAPAMYCIN FOR ANTI-AGEING

 

Been taking Rapa for 17 weeks now.  Have experimented with doses from 6-8 mg weekly to 9-12 mg weekly taken three times a week.  I got mouth sores from all doses except the 6 mg. weekly. The sores were not serious, but were just like cold sores.  Had them on my inside cheek, tongue and lips. The sores usually happened on the 2nd dose when there was still some residual of the drug left in my system. (trough)  When I was taking 4 mg, 3 times a week, I got a bad cold for 2 weeks.  Of course, the first thing you think of is that your immune system is compromised.  I immediately stopped taking Rapa for 2 weeks to get over the cold and then resumed a lower dose.  With a sore, your body is telling you that your compromising your immune system.

 

I have decided to stick with the 6 mg weekly dose as taken by Dr. Green for 18 months without side effects.  We know very little about long term side effects in healthy individuals taking it for anti- ageing purposes.  Kidney transplant and cancer patients have been taking it daily for years, but they have no choice and there under the constant care of physicians with weekly blood tests, etc.

 

There will be other geroprotectors coming in the next few years that will target Tor 1 only. (higher doses with no side effects)  FDA approval could come quickly with a new Trump appointed FDA director that would allow BIOMARKERS  to be used for drug approval instead of long clinical trials.

 

I feel that too many healthy people are taking unnecessary risks by using large doses of rapa.  Taking a conservative approach to dosing is the best course of action until the next big break through.  Which usually comes ever 5-10 years. (extending life and health span step by step)  Most of the trials show that a lower dose of rapa works as well as a higher dose with has more side effects. I'm taking 5 drugs at the moment.  Rapa 6 mg weekly, Metformin SR 1000 mg daily, Candesartan 16 mg daily, Crestor 10 mg every other day, 1/2 Aspirin daily.  Will be adding the other 2 drugs ( Propranolol and Cialis) as outlined by Dr. Mikhail Blagoskonny in his seminal paper "from rapalogs to anti-ageing formula"  

 

 http://www.impactjou...33&path[]=57761

 

​Rapa is the main drug in the formula, but the others contribute a lot to delaying ageing.  As Dr. Blagoskonny said, they all work in synergy.  Rapa does not have to do all the work if you take the complete formula.  The total dollar cost is somewhere around 7-8 hundred dollars a year if you buy from India.  Less if you have health insurance and they pay for part of the formula. 

 

I would encourage other members to contribute there own experiences to this discussion.

 

Edited by PAMPAGUY, 12 June 2017 - 06:51 PM.

[Jaris]

Are you also taking Metformin Jaris? Fantastic news about your health!

I don't take Metformin. I might in the future, but the 3 Rapamycin - Parkinson's studies I know of had good results and didn't use Metformin. Of course that doesn't mean that it wouldn't also have good effects on Parkinson's, but there is a chance that it could have unexpected negative effects. I want to stick as closely as possible to the studies. I do keep a close watch on my glucose levels and they continue to be fine.

 

In the future, depending on studies and the experience of everyone here, I might try Metformin. I might also try some of the other medications being suggested here.

Edited by Jaris, 13 June 2017 - 04:24 AM.

[VP.]

 

Are you also taking Metformin Jaris? Fantastic news about your health!

I don't take Metformin. I might in the future, but the 3 Rapamycin - Parkinson's studies I know of had good results and didn't use Metformin. Of course that doesn't mean that it wouldn't also have good effects on Parkinson's, but there is a chance that it could have unexpected negative effects. I want to stick as closely as possible to the studies. I do keep a close watch on my glucose levels and they continue to be fine.

 

In the future, depending on studies and the experience of everyone here, I might try Metformin. I might also try some of the other medications being suggested here.

 

That's interesting. From the limited amount of reports I've seen on personal Rapa use these stand out.

1. Increased physical strength and stamina.

2. Weight loss by all but me. My BMI was  23.4 at the start but maybe you need extra weight to lose weight. Weight loss appears independent of Metformin use.

3. Some level of mouth sores.

4. No real change in outward signs of age ( wrinkles, age spots, gray hair, hair loss)

5. General feeling of well being.

6. Increased colds? Two cases and speculative at this early point.

[smithx]

Please post reliable sources of rapamycin. I am finding mostly ones which require a prescription and don't relish trying to convince my dr.

[PAMPAGUY]

It would help if you would contribute to the blog.  If you had read the blog you would have found many sources without rx.  You must order from India for good price, and in quantity.  dropshipmd.com  300 mg $1.75 sirolimus 1 mg.

[Razor444]

Please post reliable sources of rapamycin. I am finding mostly ones which require a prescription and don't relish trying to convince my dr.

 

Alldaychemist.com.

[tintinet]

 

Please post reliable sources of rapamycin. I am finding mostly ones which require a prescription and don't relish trying to convince my dr.

 

Alldaychemist.com.

 

 

Reliable, but $$$.

 

https://www.pharmacy...sirolimus/1 mg/