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New Rapamycin Study- up to 60% increase in mouse lifespan- Anyone Experimenting With This?

rapamycin

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#421 APBT

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 12:14 AM

Please post reliable sources of rapamycin. I am finding mostly ones which require a prescription and don't relish trying to convince my dr.

 

Rather than having to scroll through fourteen pages of posts, I started a thread so that people could add their source and we would have this available in one location:

http://www.longecity...-13#entry817648

 

That'd be great if those who have shared their sources throughout this interesting thread would re-post them here:
http://www.longecity...amycin-vendors/


Edited by APBT, 22 June 2017 - 12:27 AM.

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#422 smithx

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:00 AM

Thanks Pampaguy,

 

This thread is several months old, and vendors change quickly, so I was hoping people could share their *recent* successful experience with vendors rather than assuming that what worked for someone last year will work now.

 

 

It would help if you would contribute to the blog.  If you had read the blog you would have found many sources without rx.  You must order from India for good price, and in quantity.  dropshipmd.com  300 mg $1.75 sirolimus 1 mg.

 



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#423 smithx

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 11:15 PM

All of the ones on this site claim to require a prescription.

 

Reliable, but $$$.

 

https://www.pharmacy...sirolimus/1 mg/

 

 

Also, I made a query on dropshipmd.com and they haven't replied after over 24 hours.

 

Any other sources?


Edited by smithx, 22 June 2017 - 11:21 PM.


#424 smithx

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:38 AM

dropshipmd.com replied as follows:

 

Rapamycin 1mg × 100 pills = 2.7$ per pill

Rapamycin 1mg × 200 pills = 2.3$ per pill

Rapamycin 1mg × 300 pills = 1.9$ per pill

Rapamycin 1mg × 500 pills = 1.67$ per pill

Registered airmail shipping takes 14-21 days up to your post office and it is 10$ extra for each 500 pills.

 

These are apparently 10 pill blister packs made by Biocon.

 

 

 

 



#425 tintinet

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 10:22 PM

Wire transfer only, no?  Wish they'd take Bitcoin or something....



#426 Skyguy2005

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 11:15 PM

 

 

Are you also taking Metformin Jaris? Fantastic news about your health!

I don't take Metformin. I might in the future, but the 3 Rapamycin - Parkinson's studies I know of had good results and didn't use Metformin. Of course that doesn't mean that it wouldn't also have good effects on Parkinson's, but there is a chance that it could have unexpected negative effects. I want to stick as closely as possible to the studies. I do keep a close watch on my glucose levels and they continue to be fine.

 

In the future, depending on studies and the experience of everyone here, I might try Metformin. I might also try some of the other medications being suggested here.

 

That's interesting. From the limited amount of reports I've seen on personal Rapa use these stand out.

1. Increased physical strength and stamina.

2. Weight loss by all but me. My BMI was  23.4 at the start but maybe you need extra weight to lose weight. Weight loss appears independent of Metformin use.

3. Some level of mouth sores.

4. No real change in outward signs of age ( wrinkles, age spots, gray hair, hair loss)

5. General feeling of well being.

6. Increased colds? Two cases and speculative at this early point.

 

 

I'm 28 and my BMI is 20.0. BMI of 23.4 (healthy) I cannot imagine - why am I so thin? I literally want to be fatter. For the record I am 5 foot 10 and never weighed over 10 st 7!

 

I'm curious to try rapa. I play tennis and stuff (manically), I'm just skinny as a dog! I worry with my metabolism I would get too thin.


Edited by Skyguy2005, 23 June 2017 - 11:20 PM.


#427 tintinet

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 11:44 PM

I don't think I've lost any weight, or noticed any effects at, except maybe mild mood elevation. Could be just placebo, thought.

#428 RWhigham

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 03:36 AM

Blagosklonny  "From rapalogs to anti-aging formula"  in Feb, 2017  suggests the following drug combinations to increase lifespan:

 

A.   Rapamycin + metformin   -  especially for those where metformin is indicated (insulin-resistant or obese)
B.   Rapamycin + propranolol (beta blocker) + Lisinopril (ACE inhibitor -  half doses for normotensive people
C.   Rapamycin + statin
D.   Rapamycin + metformin + statin
E.   Rapamycin + propranolol + Lisinopril + aspirin + statin  -  Especially for those with atherosclerosis
F.    Rapamycin + metformin + propranolol + Lisinopril + aspirin + statin + PDE5 inhibitor  -  7-drug combination
 
Dr Green is giving somewhat similar advice
 

But  "I am a little mouse, and I want to live longer"  study in 2013 gave the following 6 drug cocktail to mice in their food:

 

Everolimus + metformin + aspirin + metoprolol (beta blocker) + Ramipril (ACE inhibitor) + Simvastatin  -  6-drug combination (no PDE5 inhibitor) Each of these 6 drugs was given in the daily amount that was previously reported to have extended the lifespan of mice when given singly.  The result was quietly reported in 2015 "we observed a lifespan reduction in males and in females."  (No further details given)

 

 


Edited by RWhigham, 25 June 2017 - 04:00 AM.

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#429 RWhigham

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:17 PM

But  "I am a little mouse, and I want to live longer"  study in 2013 gave the following 6 drug cocktail to mice in their food:

 

Everolimus + metformin + aspirin + metoprolol (beta blocker) + Ramipril (ACE inhibitor) + Simvastatin  -  6-drug combination (no PDE5 inhibitor) Each of these 6 drugs was given in the daily amount that was previously reported to have extended the lifespan of mice when given singly.  The result was quietly reported in 2015 "we observed a lifespan reduction in males and in females."  (No further details given)

 

That mouse study doesn't warrant this thread coming to an end. The mice were not treated right. The rapamycin and 5 other pharmaceuticals put into their food for continuous dosing was harmful. Rapamycin taken daily inhibits both mTORC1 and mTORC2.

 

Blagosklonny and Dr.Green have both taken great pains to explain that you need to leave TOR2 alone, and suppress TOR1 intermittently. Taking a low dose of rapamycin once-a-week does exactly that.
 
Weekly low dose rapamycin combined with good diet and exercise can in a few short months get rid of excess abdominal fat and make you look better, feel better, and have longer life expectancy. Rapamycin has other more subtle effects that Blagosklonny thinks will increase your lifespan (if you already sport a 6-pack.)
 
As for the metformin, beta blocker, ACE inhibitor, statin, and PDE5 inhibitor, perhaps the combination is too much, but we can't tell from the mouse study, because the daily rapamycin was already bad enough.
 
I'm leery of taking too much stuff that requires your bionome to adjust. T1-reg cells from the thymus migrate to the bowels to finish their development.  If your bowels are upset from too much stuff, the T1-reg cells might not develop properly. Then your immune system won't be regulated properly, and you will develop auto-immune disease, inflammation, and a reduced lifespan. 
 
Metformin for example requires your bionome to "adapt" ie breed resistant bacteria, which is a crap shoot (pun not intended).  :) 
 

 


Edited by RWhigham, 10 July 2017 - 08:40 PM.

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#430 VP.

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:07 PM

Since we are talking about Metformin: https://www.wired.co...a-nickel-a-pop/

 

 



#431 smithx

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 12:33 AM

Not to hijack the thread, but what are the reasons one would NOT want to take metformin? And are those all canceled out by rapamycin?

 

It would seem unlikely, and these side effects have scared me away from it until now:

 

https://www.drugs.co...de-effects.html

 

But perhaps the positive effects so outweigh the side effects that its worth just taking it anyway?


Edited by smithx, 11 July 2017 - 12:35 AM.


#432 RWhigham

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 02:10 AM

Not to hijack the thread, but what are the reasons one would NOT want to take metformin? And are those all canceled out by rapamycin?

 

It would seem unlikely, and these side effects have scared me away from it until now:

 

https://www.drugs.co...de-effects.html

 

But perhaps the positive effects so outweigh the side effects that its worth just taking it anyway?

 

Diarrhea is #1 reason.  But I haven't tried a time release version, which is supposed to be better tolerated.



#433 Michael

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 03:16 AM

 

But "I am a little mouse, and I want to live longer"  study in 2013 gave the following 6 drug cocktail to mice in their food:[/size]
Everolimus + metformin + aspirin + metoprolol (beta blocker) + Ramipril (ACE inhibitor) + Simvastatin - 6-drug combination (no PDE5 inhibitor) Each of these 6 drugs was given in the daily amount that was previously reported to have extended the lifespan of mice when given singly.

 
That mouse study doesn't warrant this thread coming to an end.

 

 
No one was suggesting that it should.
 

That mouse study doesn't warrant this thread coming to an end. The mice were not treated right. The rapamycin and 5 other pharmaceuticals put into their food for continuous dosing was harmful. Rapamycin taken daily inhibits both mTORC1 and mTORC2.

Blagosklonny and Dr.Green have both taken great pains to explain that you need to leave TOR2 alone, and suppress TOR1 intermittently. Taking a low dose of rapamycin once-a-week does exactly that.


That's a reasonable suggestion, and there is now some rodent data to support it (albeit that there were far too few mice, it was all in females (important, because males have not fared as well on rapa as females), and the controls' lifespans were a little bit shorter than one would like). However, continuous dosing is not a knock against this study: to that extent they were following the standard rapamycin protocol, which has been successful when rapa is dosed alone. Prior to this study, all the rapamycin lifespan studies done in rodents had been done using continuous dosing, with the semi-exception of two questionable ones by Anisimov using cancer-prone and abnormally short-lived mouse strains — and even those had used two-weeks-on/two-weeks off dosing. And that study really needs replicated in a larger group and in males.
 
A more plausible explanation for the failure is toxicity from polypharmacy (which should be a concern for people with all of their stacks), or an unexpected negative mechanistic synergy (ditto), combined with the fact that most of these agents had not actually been shown to extend  life in otherwise-normal rodents of both genders.
 

Not to hijack the thread, but what are the reasons one would NOT want to take metformin?


Principally because — despite what the Wired piece and a zillion other articles claim — metformin does not extend lifespan in normal, otherwise-healthy mammals.

 
Smithx wrote: And are those [reasons not to take metformin] all canceled out by rapamycin?

No — quite the reverse: metformin seems to enhance the anti-aging effect of rapamycin, particularly in males, despite having no effects on its own — apparently by reducing the negative effect on glucose tolerance.


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#434 geo12the

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 04:16 AM

What is the consensus about Rapamcin vs. Everolimus? Is there enough information out there to suggest one is better than the other for anti-aging effects?  


Edited by geo12the, 11 July 2017 - 04:18 AM.


#435 PAMPAGUY

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 04:45 PM

Here is a interesting talk by Dr. David Sinclair on ageing.  Good up to the minute tapes on ageing research are rare and I would encourage everyone to watch it a couple of times.  He feels that everyone will be taking NMN in the next 4 years and it will be affordable.

 

 What was interesting was the part that he talked about the  2  upcoming trials and the trifecta of treating ageing.   

 

1.  TAME trial on Metformin would lift flood gates of investment in ageing research if successful because funded by FDA.

 

2.  His own trial of NMN.  Looks like it will be 500 mg. daily. (bottle shown in tape)  (didn't say so, but probably with reservatrol)  Also, would be interesting to know if taking 500 mg Nictotinamide Riboside  would = 500 mg NMN.  Doesn't mention NR.  Probably because there is more money to be made in NMN.  NR is a precussor to NMN which is a precussor to NAD+.  He used examples of people and mice having more energy after only taking NMN for 1-3 months.

 

In a chart at 21:06 of the tape he shows the 3 prongs of treating ageing.

 

1.  Tor (amino acids) which is treated by Rapamycin.

2.  Glucose (high blood sugar) which is treated by Metformin.

3.  NAD which give us more SIrtuins which are depleted with age.

 

Treating all of these increases Longevity by mimicking calorie restriction and exercise. 


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#436 PAMPAGUY

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 05:10 PM

I'm now taking Nicotinamide Riboside (500mg)+ Pterostilbene (150mg) daily.  Pterostilbene is a more bio available form of reservatrol.  Dr. Sinclair has previously stated that he has been taking reservatrol for years.  Dr. Trammel stated in his paper that NR is the best precursor to increased NAD+ production.

 

  https://brenner.lab....Trammell16c.pdf

 

If you follow my posts on this site, you will notice that I have also been taking Rapamycin (6mg weekly) + (Metformin SR 1000 mg daily) for the last 6 months.  Have had zero side effects.  My labs have been very good and much improved from when I started.  I have more energy and have lost 15 lbs of weight.  But, I'm seeking even more energy - like when I was younger.  NAD + is all about more energy.   I'm currently 71 yo.  In Dr. Sinclair's latest tape of NMN  (see previous post) he stated that his 78 yo father who is also taking NMN has had a significant increase in energy.  So I'm in, and the science makes sense to me.  Increased NAD+ production is an intervention that can be taken by anyone over 40 years of age not just the elderly.  I order my NR from http://alivebynature.com/about-niagen/.  Have not found a better price or service anywhere else.

 

In Dr. Sinclair's tape, he spoke of the 3 prongs of fighting aging.  Rapamycin to inhibit TOR.  Metformin to control glucose.  NAD+ to replace NAD lost to age and Sertuins.

 

I'm now on all 3 prongs and only time will tell if it works or not, but at my age I have a lot to gain and not much to lose. (a few dollars)

 

This is a blog about Rapamycin, but I feel that the other 2 prongs of fighting ageing are relevant to the discussion


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#437 MikeDC

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 05:26 PM

I would like to see a study to compare mTORC1, Sirt1 levels from Niagen and Rapamycin.

NAD+ is not only about energy. It is also about DNA repair and Sirtuins genes that rejuvenate your body to slow down or reverse aging.

Edited by MikeDC, 06 August 2017 - 05:30 PM.

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#438 Michael

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 06:45 PM

I would like to see a study to compare mTORC1, Sirt1 levels from Niagen and Rapamycin.

NAD+ is not only about energy. It is also about DNA repair and Sirtuins genes that rejuvenate your body to slow down or reverse aging.

 
At the end of the day, we're not concerned about the effect of an intervention on specific biochemical pathways, but on overall health and survival. So we have a much better way to assess these two agents than levels and activity of mTORC1 and SIRT1 proteins: lifespan studies.
 
In Zhang, Auwerx (2016), et. al. , mice administered NR at 400 mg/kg commencing at 24 months of age enjoyed "slightly increased lifespan (chow diet, mean 829 ± 12.0; NR, mean 868 ± 12.4 days, p = 0.034) (Fig. 6G)" — an increase in overall median lifespan from birth of 4.7%. The authors don't report maximum (tenth-decile) survivorship, an increase in which relative to normal, healthy controls is the sine qua non of an anti-aging intervention, but looking at the survival curves, the very last control animal died at age ≈960 days (700 days (see legend to Figure 6) + an eyeballed 260 d from the graph)), and the last treated animal died at age ≈1010 days — a similar increase of 5.2%, albeit a much dodgier figure. (And we have to question whether we can take these reported gains seriously: see the caveats on this study below).

 

By contrast, in the study that set off this thread, mice administered high-dose transient rapamycin treatment commencing at 23-24 months of age enjoyed overall median lifespan from birth of 16%.Again they don't report maximum LS, but "The longest-lived rapamycin-treated male in our cohort survived for 710 days post treatment to approximately 1400 days of age. Based on a survey of the literature, this is likely one of the longest-lived wild type C57BL/6 animals ever reported." This was an increase of single-animal extreme survival from birth of 13% — and without the caveats below regarding Zhang, Auwerx et al.

 

Caveats on Zhang, Auwerx et al.
Zhang et al paper is a good piece of work, but there are two reasons to suspect that the reported increase in lifespan (and the other outcomes) may not translate to normal, otherwise-healthy aging humans. First, it's not clear that it showed extended lifespan in any real sense: while there was a nominal difference between the two groups' median lifespans, the controls were abnormally short-lived, and the treated animals on the low side of normal. This is already clear just from looking at the shape of the survival curve itself, which is clearly not rectangular: from ≈850 days onward, both groups were clearly suffering abnormal early attrition. So this doesn't actually show an increase in LS, but rather a partial normalization of LS in a slightly short-lived colony: they limped along better for their abnormally short lives.

 

Second,  there's the unfortunately near-universal caveat that it was done in C57BL/6J mice, who carry the NNT mutation, which makes the translatability of any study based on NAD+ repletion questionable (see also here and here for followup).


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#439 MikeDC

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:34 PM

I remember mice administered with Rapamycin at old and young age got about the same life extension benefit. People suspect the effects are mostly cancer prevention.

NAD+ precursors should be taken Starting at a relatively young age such as 30-35. I am still waiting for a mice study doing just that. I might do it myself eventually. The 4.7% from human at age 60 might translate into 30-40% at 35. With NAD+, it is mainly about preventing age related diseases. It you already have the diseases, reversing it completely might be difficult.
A friends father just had 80 year birth day. He told me his mind were not clear anymore and his finger didn't follow directions. After taking Niagen, his mind cleared up, his finger back to normal and his skin becomes much smoother. He basically reversed his aging in a few months.
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#440 MikeDC

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:58 PM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...15/#!po=15.7609

This is a more reliable study using Rapamycin and metformin.
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#441 MikeDC

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 09:10 PM

Metformin alone didn't increase life span in both male and female.
Met/rap increased mean life span for both male and female by 23%. Although it didn't reach statistical significance.

Looks like the metformin clinical trial is a waste of time.
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#442 Rick Flair

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 01:00 AM

MikeDC,

If you love your vitamin, then fine, love your vitamin. Why come here and bash Rapamycin? Why not just say your vitamin is great? The negative things you say rapamycin are lies. You are a liar. Only one reason to lie. You must be selling vitamins. GO SELL VITAMINS SOMEWHERE ELSE. Get it, you are a shameless liar.

PAid troll to sell vitamins.
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#443 MikeDC

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 01:33 AM

Rick Flair,

You sounds like a Rapamycin salesman. Not someone seeking truth about longevity. NR is safer and better studied for longevity. If Rapamycin is proven to be more effective than NR, I would be glad to take it. Until then, the best bet for longevity is NR/NMN at this point.
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#444 Rick Flair

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 01:58 AM

But MikeDC, I have not posted any lies about your vitamin. I have not even said that it is a bad vitamin. See the difference?
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#445 MikeDC

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 02:06 AM

I know what you meant when you say vitamin. You think a vitamin will not help and useless while a big pharma drug with tons of side effects can.
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#446 MikeDC

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 02:06 AM

I know what you meant when you say vitamin. You think a vitamin will not help and useless while a big pharma drug with tons of side effects can.
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#447 Rick Flair

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 02:19 AM

I know what you meant when you say vitamin. You think a vitamin will not help and useless while a big pharma drug with tons of side effects can.


Back to the lies. No such "tons of side effects" at 6mg per week. You are either slow, or your a low character.
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#448 MikeDC

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 02:43 AM

Almost all natural plant based supplements and big pharma drugs are close to useless for lengevity. What are useful are what is already in our body. Ubiquinol is a good one. You can call it a vitamin too. DHEA is another important one for post menopause women. NR is the most important one found so far because its effect is anti aging. Age related diseases are caused by low NAD+. Believe it or not. That is the state of science.
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#449 Rick Flair

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 02:58 AM

Let's stick to the point. You lie while promoting this vitamin. Your a liar. Don't you get it. I predict that anything I say will be disregarded and you will continue to lie. Your an empty drum that keeps on beating. Shame on you.
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#450 Michael

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 03:41 AM

NR is ... better studied for longevity.

 

This is unambiguously incorrect. That I know of, there are at least seven robust lifespan studies on rapamycin, plus two more promising pilot studies and another that's at least suggestive. There is one lifespan study on NR, and as I indicated above, it has some flaws.

 

 

ou think a vitamin will not help and useless while a big pharma drug with tons of side effects can.


Back to the lies. No such "tons of side effects" at 6mg per week.

 

That may be true (though I'd like to know your specific source on it), but that dose is unlikely to have an effect. The standard dose in the rodent studies (14 ppm diet/2.24 mg/kg mouse) leads to serum levels of ≈10-20 ng/mL in young adult animals and as much as 60-70 ng/mL in old animals: lower doses are ineffective in males,  and higher doses work better in both genders. The blood levels in the intermittent-dosing pilot study are similar (2 mg/kg administered by i.p. injection every 5 days) are quite high for the first day (40 ng/mL), and trough down at a few ng/mL by the end of the week.

 

The 10-20 ng/mL level achieved at 14 ppm diet is similar to what's targeted clinically in renal transplant patients, taking a 6 mg/day loading dose and a ≈2 mg/day maintenance dose. At such doses, the adverse effects are quite substantial. You'd presumably have to go significantly higher for an initial peak of 40 ng/mL.


Edited by Michael, 07 August 2017 - 04:11 PM.

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